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The Supreme Court ruled Tuesday that the Constitution forbids the execution of killers who were under 18 when they committed their crimes, ending a practice used in Texas and 18 other states.

Chief Justice William H. Rehnquist, Justice Clarence Thomas and Scalia, as expected, voted to uphold the executions. They were joined by Justice Sandra Day O’Connor.

Tuesday’s ruling prevents states from making 16- and 17-year-olds eligible for execution.

The trend is to abolish the practice because “our society views juveniles … as categorically less culpable than the average criminal.”

I remember being 16 and 17 years old. And I remember that I was fully aware of my actions and their consequences. To say that a 17 year old doesn’t understand the severity or the consequences of brutally murdering someone is bullshit.

So let’s meet some of these innocent little babies (as the ACLU would have you believe), and see just how culpable they really are:

  • Christopher Simmons was 17 when he kidnapped a neighbor, hog-tied her and threw her off a bridge in 1993. Prosecutors say he planned the burglary and killing of Shirley Crook and bragged that he could get away with it because of his age.
  • A jury found Lee Boyd Malvo guilty of capital murder and terrorism in the Washington-area sniper case, which left 10 people dead and terrorized the region. Malvo was 17 at the time of the shootings.

Texas has already executed 13 juveniles, to include:

  • Toronto Patterson a former teenage drug dealer was executed for killing a 3-year-old cousin at her Dallas home - 1 of 3 relatives gunned down so he could steal some fancy car wheels.
  • Napoleon Beazley, executed for car jacking and murdering a 63-year-old man, whom he shot in the head with a .45-caliber pistol.
  • T.J. Jones — during the robbery of a 75-year-old man, pulled the man from his vehicle as he was backing out of his driveway, and shot him in the head with a .357 magnum pistol.

The following men all committed horrendous and deliberate murders when they were 17 years old. They are currently sitting on Texas’ death row. Because of this new Court decision, they will probably be spared the fate they deserve:

  • Raul Villarreal — Convicted for kidnapping and killing Jennifer Ertman (14) and Elizabeth Pena (16). The girls had taken a shortcut home. Each girl was repeatedly raped by Villarreal and his fellow gang members, and then strangled to death. Villarreal later bragged that he stepped on the neck of Jennifer Ertman in an effort to strangle her because the “bitch wouldn’t die” after being strangled with a belt.
  • Robert Acuna — Convicted of killing two elderly neighbors, James and Joyce Carroll, shooting them “execution style” and then stealing their car.
  • Geno Wilson — On 12/02/98 on the streets of Houston, Texas, Wilson shot an adult male during a robbery attempt. The victim was reportedly selling bottles of cleaning solution on the street and was approached by Wilson and 3 black male companions. Wilson indicated he would buy a bottle of the cleaning solution then produced a handgun and pointed it at the head of the victim, demanding cash. When the victim denied having any cash, Wilson shot him once in the back of the head.
  • Bruce Williams — On 02/03/99, Williams abducted two Asian females. The victims were forced by Williams at gunpoint to go to a wooded area where he then shot both of the victims. One victim survived the shooting and called police.
  • Tran Son — Tran and three others lured a man to a club in Houston and murdered him because of his relationship with a woman who worked at the club. Tran and the others involved learned that another woman who worked at the club was aware of their identities. Tran and two of the others drove that woman to a secluded beach and shot her in the head, resulting in her death. Tran and two others then became concerned that the fourth person involved in the first murder might not keep their secret. The fourth person was lured to a meeting under false pretenses. He brought a friend along. Tran and one of the others shot and killed the fourth person and his friend. Prosecution for the death of theses last two murders resulted in the capital murder conviction for Tran.
  • Whitney Reeves — On 8/20/1999, Reeves and one co-defendant shot and killed a 14 year old white female and her father, a 40 year old white male, with a 12 gauge shotgun. The double homicide occurred at the victims’ apartment in Beaumont. The apparent motive for the shooting was that the 14-year-old girl had testified at a grand jury hearing that resulted in charges of Aggravated Sexual Assault of a Child against the co-defendant.
  • Michael Lopez — On 09/29/98, during the early morning hours in Houston, shot and killed a 26 year old Deputy constable on a routine traffic stop.
  • Jorge Salinas — On 07/28/2001 in Mission, Texas, Salinas and 2 co-defendants fatally shot a 29 year old Hispanic male 1 time with a 12 gauge shotgun and caused the death of a 21 month old Hispanic female by abandoning her in an area where she was not likely to be found. Salinas and 2 co-defendants carjacked the victim for his 2001 Chevy Malibu vehicle. Salinas and 2 co-defendants then dumped the 29 year old Hispanic male victim in an orchard and took the 21 month old Hispanic female child, while strapped in her car seat, and placed her in a tall grassy area. Salinas and co-defendants fled in the victim’s vehicle.

‘Less culpable’ kids don’t kidnap their neighbors, hog tie them, and throw them off bridges. ‘Less culpable’ kids don’t execute their elderly neighbors so they can steal their cars. ‘Less culpable’ kids don’t gang-rape and strangle other little kids. Hell, even your ‘average adult criminal’ doesn’t commit crimes as heinous as these.

I’m sorry. I don’t buy the ‘less culpable’ part of the argument. These men are evil; they have committed crimes deserving of our society’s harshest punishment: death. To argue that their age has any mitigating factor on their ‘culpability’ (a synonym for culpability is “guilt”) is a slap in the face to their victims and their families.

111 Responses to “Supremes Strikes Down Death Penalty for Juveniles”

dude i know exactly what you mean. all these juveniles deserve to die. they committed a crime, now they need to reep the consequences. i am currently 17 now and i am definetly mature enough to know that i shouldnt murder anyone or commit a crime. heck ask any 13 year old and he would say the same thing.

Hey stupid people get over it I’m marrying one of them and you need to let it go please stop killing people change

what if it was one of your loved ones doing life in prison

If one of my “loved ones” brutally murdered someone the way the people I have listed on this page have done…I would want them to be executed for their crimes.

You’ve asked us to “stop killing people”. Wouldn’t it just be easier if people like your fiance quit killing innocent people first? Or does that simple logic evade you?

So, which one of these vile, evil, murderous men are you marrying, and who/how did he kill? Did he kidnap, beat, rape, and then stab to death an 11 year old girl? Or did he beat to death the 80 year old couple that lives next door to him?

I can’t even imagine the self-loathing and self-contempt you must feel for yourself Andrea that you would be able to ‘understand’ and marry one of these vile murderers.

I’m acvtuaaly maryying one of Jennifer Eartman’s [killers], and I’m not proud of it i know what he did was wrong, and it was un human I’m a good person marriyng him does not make me any diffrent i love him and i don’t approve what he did but only God can take our lives

You do see the problem with your logic in the last sentence, dont’ you?

“…only God can take our lives”

You do know that your fiance “took” the lives of Jennfier Ertman and Elizabeth Pena, right? So, does that make him “God”?

Of course it doesn’t. So, obviously, MAN —and not just God— can take the life of another.

[...] Someone’s Going to Get Shot Because of Kelo v. New London In March, I bemoaned a Supreme Court decision in which Justices Kennedy, Breyer, Souter [...]

[...] urg based their decisions on International opinion. With that ruling, pieces-of-shit like Efrain Perez and Raul Villarreal will not face the death sentence that they d [...]

There is no question that these men didn’t know right from wrong when they committed the crimes. Of course they knew murder was wrong!

So what is wrong with giving them a fair and just punishment they deserve…Life with out the possibility of parole?

So much money is wasted on death sentences, its so much cheaper to house them for life. Death row ultimatly protects the inmate from population. A real tough sentence is putting them in the general population with criminals like themselfs. That’s pure pain and suffering. That would be the ultimate revenge and justice for victims. Victims are not just who these people murdered but also the murderers’ families.

Let God do the judging and provide the punishment eteranlly. The Death Penalty is not foolproof, innocent people are convicted as well that dont deserve to die. Nobody is saying that juveniles are babies or innocent. Everyone can relate to being a teenager, and everyone can also relate to not thinking out the consequences thoroughly when they are young.

I think its about time the criminal justice system ended the execution of juveniles, with any luck they will end the DP alltogether. It dosnt deter crime, it costs the tax payers a fortune, and 102 innocent people have been exonerated, and God only knows how many innocent people have been executed. At the very least one should do the research about the DP with an open mind to both sides of the issue before making judgements that will end someones life.

Andrea,
When I read what your fiance did to those two girls, I was angry and disgusted. Those boys deserve to die for what they did. As a matter of fact they would have been lucky to die through lethal injection. Elizabeth and Jennifer had to suffer!

How can you marry a monster? Are you fucking crazy? What is wrong with you? If you are a good person, then find someone normal to spend your life with. Besides, he is in prison (and will hopefully stay there and rot) so how are you going to be with him? Don’t be stupid, go on with your life and get some self-esteem so that you can find a human to marry!

[...] Does Florida have the death penalty? I hope the 18 year old kid gets death for this crime — he deserves no less. How can you possibley “rehabilitate” someone who has that kind of evil within them (answer: you can’t). And since the SCOTUS has ruled that murderers and rapists who committed their crimes while they were under the age of 18 cannot be put to death, I hope that the 17 year-old kid gets plunger-raped in prison everyday for the rest of his life. [...]

Acvtuaaly, Maryying, Eartman’s, Un human, Diffrent? Yes Andrea, you may be a good person but you are obviously not a very intelligent one. Although we all pretty much realized that when you so proudly declared that you are MARRYING one of the killers. Sweetie, word of advice: Go back to school, get an education and get a job. Do something to heighten you lack of self esteem, set some goals for Christ’s sake. This may make you feel a little better about yourself, and you won’t go around PROUDLY stating that you are marrying a killer. Damn.

who cares what they all think andrea it’s your life and anyone can be rehabilitated. you just need to realize what kind of life ur going to live and how to handle his execution. if you can handle it

I think that if you willingly take someone’s life that you should be sentenced to death. I believe that a 16-17 year old is most capable knowing what they did was right or wrong. People can only be rehabilitated only if they want the help. So basically I am saying an eye for an eye.

To Andrea,
The only part I agree with is God is the only one who should take life, but the rest of your proclamation is pure ignorance. I hope you don’t have children to pass your ignorance to. Your fiance is still alive whether he’s in prision, he still lives and breaths, but Jennifer and Elizabeth stopped living June of 1993 due to the pure evil and hatred of your fiance. I’m completely for the death penalty especailly in the Eartman/Pena case. They all deserve to meet their maker, not to mention I would rather waste my tax dollars putting them to death rather than waste my hard earned money keeping them alive in prision.Being able to live in prision can never amount to the pain and suffering they caused to Elizabeth Pena, Jennifer Eartman and to their friends and family. How do you live with yourself knowing that you support such a vile murderer?

I can’t believe the callousness of you Andrea. You didn’t even know these girls, my friends, friends of my family and I dated the brother of one of these killers. I’d meet up with Joe at Tradewinds. You weren’t there, you didn’t see the pain we all went through, their bodies mutilated, beaten, degraded, as if nothing more than waste. They were living, vibrant young girls, with a bright future. It was bad enough for me to have to relive this after 14yrs, to see the families denied justice. I think you are just one of those people who try and stirl up something. Well you’ve stirred up some deep wounds. They deserve to DIE. If it could be the same way they killed Jennifer and Elizabeth, I would be the one stomping on one of their throats and yelling Die bitch. They don’t deserve any mercy, in the end I know that God will grant them the hell they deserve. My god, you sicken me.

I am for the death penalty for those who willingly forget to hear God’s voice telling an almost murderer to stop and let someone live, because the prestige of being a gang member was more appealing than helping Elizabeth Pena and Jennifer Ertman to get home safely. I pray that those individuals like Raul Villarreal who was to young for the death penalty, will spend the rest of his life in prison getting back what he deserves. For those that did not know these two young girls, I will give you a condensed version of their live.

I never had the distinct pleasure of meeting Jennifer Ertman, but I know she was a young girls with wonderful dreams of growing up, dating, going to college, and saving her innocence for the man she would someday marry.

I knew Elizabeth Pena. She was a beautiful young girl with ambitions for the future, and she was my nephew’s best friend. Elizabeth had dreams of graduating from high school, going to college, and getting married, and most importantly saving her innocence for the man she would someday marry.

Raul Villarreal, along with the other murderers have more fans fighting to save their lives from the death penalty, than those two young girls who fought desperately for their lives, and have not received anything but blame and sure insistance that these young girls derved what they got because they don’t have people defending their actions, like the thousands are defending the murderers from death.

Is this fair?

If I was not living in a nursing home at the tender age of 56, after suffering from a massive stroke, and struggling to live my life as normal as possible, I am alive, and I am expressing my opinion those those that care or don’t care. For the grace of my Gode in Heaven, I can say that my almost death, strenghthens my need to find a way to let the world know.

“The devil will get his men to serve him in hell, and the gangs will boast of their conquests, and the devil will grant them entry into Hell.”

Killing them by death penalty will be too easy on them.

Let’s just let these gang members suffer by putting them at the front lines in Iraq. Let them learn how to defend our country instead of paying to let them live and eat free at our expense. We should put a rifle in their hands, and airlift them into Bagdad, and see how quickly they wish for God’s help.

Well, Mr Bush. Instead of being concerned about this country’s Gays, you should be trying to send this country’s criminal’s to Irag.

If our soldiers are claiming war stress, why then ruin our good men when you can send the criminals to fight for their lives and ours.

Think about it. If anyone claims these thoughts to be crazy, then you should ask why not send our criminal to defend our country. They already know how to shoot and kill without regrets, and send our soldiers home.

Thank you for letting share my thoughts, and if you disagree, get in line for the trip tp hell, your name is on the list.

I must I feel a little happier to learn that the main culprit O’Brien has just been executed by Texas today. Hope that goes for the rest of the young criminals…

Have to agree with Lorettas comments 100%…. Back in 1987 I attended the funeral for a 12 year old girl who was abducted raped and then butchered by a husband and wife…..Sadly in Australia we do not have capital punishment but we do have LIFE NEVER TO BE RELEASED and thats what they got….May they rot in hell….As for the silly silly girl who claims to be marrying one of the Ertman\Pena killers Well regardless what you do with the rest of your life little girl Elizabeth and Jennifer had their dreams snuffed out ….they will never finish school..go to college ..turn 21….and get married and raise familys all thanks to your boyfriend and his gutless mates….Elizabeth and Jennifer sit at gods right hand sadly before their time but rest assured little girl your boyfrien d and the others responsible for this outrage have a special corner of HELL reserved for them and I hope they suffer the rest of this life before they get there. In closing I believe if 17 year olds are capable of crimes like this then they deserve to be treated as adults and be bloody well gotten rid of…Our world would be a better place without them

May Elizabeth Pena Jennifer Ertman and Sian Kingi rest in gods loving embrace for evermore Arohanui

Mark

By ’stomping on their necks to ensure they were dead’ proves, beyond a shadow of a doubt, these brutal murderers knew what they were doing. To save them, or offer leniency is something God should decide when they depart this earth - NOT a defense or human rights team. There are no excuses - the lot of them should have been executed for their heinous acts years ago. They’ve done nothing for society since then except drain tax-payers and break hearts of everyone involved and shocked and saddened those who read this story. EACH TIME a killer is given a chance, he/she goes on to something worse and then it’s always too late. When will we ever learn? Look at the young kid who murdered his niece and wide after Katrina. Pitiful; may God Bless the victims familes - and may the perps suffer eternally.

I meant ‘wife’ not wide above ….. but wanted to add: as for people who marry convicts and murderers in prison - strange … because while ‘married’ to death-row or LWOP inmates/murderers … you’re safe while they’re behind bars. However - your own intelligence remains behind bars at the same time and only you have the key to your own sanity. Pity? Perhaps. But that’s your choice and your loss, no-one elses. Be proud, as you claim to be, but reast assured very few others are as proud of you. Your ‘love/marriage’ is nothing more than for an acute lack of attention, depsite which - there was also attention their victims cried out for. It was muffled, then distinguished. Think about it… In my mind, if a person ‘loves and marries’ a person that has committed such a heinous crime then the (new) lover/wife condones such action. THAT’S scarier than knowing one half is behind bars!

Lindsay, you said what I wanted to say, but only Better! Thanks!

not everyone grows up in a world where they are taught not to hate. ignorance is the devil and unless you are God, you have no right to take a life.

lindsay, you are giving an opinion and its a shame you have such a small mind. You are one of thise who cant undertsand what they cant imagine going through.That’s called ignorance. God help you if anyone you ever love happens to stunn the crap out of you and your family and then you will see that there are vistims on both sides of the fence. Not all people are their biggest mistake.

I am appalled at the ruling that juveniles cant be held liable on the same level as adults if they are convicted of aggravated murder! How can a number be put on maturity?

When I was 13, I was at the mental age of 18.

Those “kids” know very well what they’re doing. Kids these days are smart. And now that they “KNOW” they won’t get a harsh punishment for committing murder, how are you going to stop them? Life in prison? How is that suffering for a crime you committed? You get a cell, a shower, food, TV, a gym, all the amenities because YOUR rights as a defendant need to be protected!!!

WHAT ABOUT THE LIVES OF THOSE MURDERED??? WHAT HAPPENED TO THEIR RIGHTS? A DOUBLE VIOLATION IF YOU ASK ME-by the killers and the law.

Why give them a 2nd chance when they didn’t consider that for the lives they took. What about those 2 girls that were raped & murdered? Did they get a 2nd chance? No — as they begged for their lives, the guys only cared about not getting caught for the rape. Intent was there, and the fact that “the bitch wouldn’t die” shows that he understood what he was doing. So why is the law so concerned with violating their constitutional rights when those girls’ rights were pulled from underneath them? UN*F*N*BELIEVABLE!!

I’m ashamed of you people who thinks that juviniles should get put to death because of murder (referring to Blake). Yes, they did do wrong buy killing, but that does not mean they should be killed too. Most juvenile murder cases are accidental. Do you know that a kid as young as the age of 10, can now be tried as adults?? So, you’re saying that a 10 year old who commited murder should be put to death? Come on people, do you not have any sympathy for these juveniles committed with murder? Yeah, some of them know that killing is wrong, but are they clearly informed about the consequences of the crime? Maybe yes and maybe no. Besides, these juveniles are being influenced by gangs and violent movies. If you wanna blame someone for their actions, blame the gangs and blame the directors and producers of those violent crime movies. And about the death penalty for others, it’s wrong. Believe or not, by killings those who killed others, makes us murderers too. If you want someone to suffer for killing someone you know, then giving them the death penalty is cetainly not the way to do it. By giving them the death penalty, we’re just giving them the easy way out from suffering. Why make them suffer for only a few months or years, when you can make them suffer for the rest of their living lives?? The death penalty is only another cause for violence, it does not stop violence. The death penalty is suppose to stop others from killing right? Wail, if that’s the case, then why are people still killing? I’m postively sure that most murderers are aware of the death penalty, but they go ahead and kill anways… Therefore, the death penalty is really no helpin trying to stop violence.

[...] One blogger pointed out that the Supreme Court, which was thinking of letting Jose Medellin get away with this murder on the grounds of insufficient consular access, had already let two of his accomplices in the same rapes and murders escape the death penalty because they were under 18 at the time of the murder. [...]

Anonymous Writer wrote this -

“I’m ashamed of you people who thinks that juviniles should get put to death because of murder. Yes, they did do wrong buy killing, but that does not mean they should be killed too.”

Well I’m sorry, but two juvenile girls got put to death because of murder…and they had no judge, jury, trial or chance of a last minute repreive.

Then she (I’m assuming from the glaring mistakes in her English it’s another Eurotrash Thughugger) goes on to lay the finger of culpability onto Hollywood…that’s right, cos everytime I saw Texas Chainsaw Massacre I wanted to go straight out and buy a chainsaw and cut up a load of people with it!

Then this little gem!

Believe or not, by killings those who killed others, makes us murderers too

Oh, great! Does that mean that by supporting the death penalty for these wretched creatures we are classified as murderers too…if that’s the case can we all expect to be befriended by sadistic psycho penpals then???

Although I do agree with her on one point in a way, and that by administering them with a LI they are getting the easy way out, but I guess that just goes someway to showing the compassionate nature of a normal law-abiding society, to deal with killers in a humane fashion not afforded to their victims. Anyhow, there must be a whole load of mental torture in knowing the exact time they will ooze off this planet in a trail of slime!

And as a deterrent I think the DP is working absolutely fine. According to unofficial figures - 10 out of 10 people given the Death Penalty were deemed least likely to reoffend. Good day to you!!!

Damn…really got the use of those block quotes all wrong in the above comment - to which I also forgot to put my name to, before any of the whining antis come on saying how moralistic I am behind an anonymous name!!!

[Editor's Note: Darren, I fixed the previous comment for you.]

Punishing murder with murder seems a little Ironic but so it goes I guess.
I do however find it interesting the way you have revealed some of the victims and criminals races yet not others. Any reason for this?
I see victims labelled as white and Asian and criminals as black.
No black victims mentioned and no non-black criminals.
One could almost get the impression that all criminals are black and all of their victms are White and Asian, though im sure that was not your intention.
Very balanced piece of reporting, well done!

Punishing murder with murder seems a little Ironic

No, executing murderers is lawful and just.

Very balanced piece of reporting, well done!

Sorry to disappoint you but the descriptions are simply the “summary of incident” off of the tdcj website. You’ll have to find racism elsewhere. Twit.

I just want to say first that i am very familar with the Ertman/Pena murders bcause i am a pen pal of one and i have to say that I DO NOT approve of what Peter and the rest did but I do believe that he has changed and I do not think that he should die….There are many people quick to pass judgement and say that someone deserves to die, no one deserves to die that is God’s choice not man kinds

So, Patricia…did Jennifer and Elizabeth die at the hands of God, or by the hands of your penpal? Was it God’s choice to kill those girls, or was it those subhuman “men”?

If they can choose to kill people, the State can choose to do the same to them as punishment.

Well just a couple weeks ago I came upon the case of Efrain Perez he was one of the attackers in the Jennifer and Elizabeth murder ..I think what they did at such a young age is sick and it makes the world a ugly place they’re actions where cruel and evil and they had a choice after the rape and beatings to let them go but they all made the choose to commit murder after commiting assault Do they deserve to die is the big question ..the answer to me is simple yes most of them where months away from becoming adults ..adults according to the law is the age of 18 but sadly now it seems the law is giving 17 old boys green light to go around raping and killing innocent girls because as long as there not 18 they will get away with it ..for the friends and families of these young girls I would like to say am sorry the Justice system failed you in some ways and robbed you of the closure of watching them die but i have studied alot of the laws of prison among inmates and if there one things they hate is rapist am sure all of the attackers have felt first hand what its like to be beaten and raped against there wills and I hope everytime it happens to them they cry and feel shameful,afraid,hopeless and alone and that they remember they had a choose and they made the choice to take two lifes and now they have the rest of there lifes to think about that but one thing is for sure non of them will ever know heaven..

I meant to put choice where you will read choose ….sorry my bad

Just saw on the news today that President Bush wants Medellin freed, due to a suit won by the Mexican Govt in the Hague. I guess Mr. Bush thinks that US laws should be interpreted by international courts. Bush needs to realize that he has no constitutional authority in this matter and stay the hell out of it. (Can’t believe I voted for this idiot.)

That just goes to show the direction this country is heading. People are free to come here illegally to rape and murder our citizens. But God forbid we seek justice. Even our own Federal Government is a disgrace. It doesn’t matter which party they are in…….they no longer represent the AMERICAN people. I could easily write a 10 page paper on this subjet, but I encourage ALL of you to Google “north american union” It’s not propaganda or conspiracy theories. It is our destiny and there is nothing “we the people” can do about it.

They should execute him, then deport his body back to Mexico. His braindead girlfriend can go rot in the Mexico that he is so proud of.

Instead of leathal injection for Pena-Ertman killers, how about putting a belt around their necks and pulling! (at least til it breaks)It’s time to take out the trash!

After reading this blog, and knowing what these monsters did to those two young girls, I can only ask myself why these pieces of garbage are still breathing, much less given life sentences. I really hope that Perez & Villareal are tortured by the general population of the prison. They were allowed to live, the two girls never got to continue their lives, I just hope that their prison time is sheer hell, that they get raped and beaten every day.
It is also pathetic that girls write to these animals, much less want to marry them, what the hell kind of life is that, I guess that is the best that they can do, Andrea is one sick person, proud to marry a rapist and a killer, she must be one desperate person.
Ron

I understand the point of vieuw from those guys who are against the death penalty . And i also understand the other point of view. But i think it is also important to look at those peole who have been innocent and were also killed. Dont you think, that ist is very dangerous to sent those people to death without having proved their innocence in all possible ways? My personal opinion is that instead of leaving a bad or evil paroles on a person that makes him or her automaticlly guilty the duty of a country must be to prove the innocence of their citizen. Please think about that!
Annika

How in the hell can you show that killing is wrong with killing?Plus you always have to see the situations and the life before it happened…eversince death penalty exists nothing has changed ya´ll need to work on changing the system in the states so people have opportunities!!!How many people dies innocent by the hand of the state!!??How you gonna make that up to their family???Never!!!guilty of killing so now what happens to those who killed them?Nothing!
Man sad so sad we don’t have death penalty and we have not so many crimes here so re-think the system!

I love him I’m married to him now and I’m happier than ever he’s great. No I’m not ok for what he did girls should have not been killed that way they were innocent and had a whole life ahead of them, but I love him and he desserves a chance, to prove he can fit into society and to have a family.
Sincerely,
Andrea

Andrea,
It’s great that you are so happy now that you are married to him, just out of curiosity, who is ” him “, which one of the four did you marry ?
How is he so great to you, and how can he fit into society being in prison and all, especially if he is on Death Row.
Ron

who do you think it is? since you claim to know them so well chump…..

You know it pisses me off that people like you are so full of hate and ignorance I already said how bad I felt for what happened to those girls and how I don’t agree with my husband being involved in this heinious crime, and how it could have been any of my loved ones but there’s nothing I could do now I fell in love with him after that horrible crime and it’s already done my condolences are always with those two beautiful girls parents …. I believe he is a changed man and that if he ever got the chance to come out and be with me we would be real happy together, and no I dont have low self esteem I’m a very pretty girl, and I have a great job i have a head on my shoulders and I’ve done alot of good things for people as well, I believe God changes people and that only he can take your life away my husband is a great man with a big heart and were going to fight the system till the end

CHUMP ?
Actually, I don’t really care which one of the sub human beings you married, it just seems like a pretty stupid decision to get involved with a man who rapes and kills children.
You are a very pretty girl with a head on your shoulder, why would you choose this kind of life, why would you even consider writing to a killer on death row, why not seek out a normal relationship with someone you could be with, hold hands, go to movies together, have children to love, and all the other great things you can have in a relationship . You feel bad for what he did to those two girls, how does he feel about it, does he have any remourse ?
I am not full of hate, and most certainly not ignorant, I just do not have any use for people who rape and kill innocent teenagers, then go around and brag about it, not a very smart decision.
Your husband is a great man with a big heart, how does one change so much sitting in a cell on death row since he was 18 years old, what has he done to make him a great man ?
What do your parents, family, friends think of your decision, are they behind you and accept your marriage ?
I am not trying to be mean to you, I just hope that you realise what you have decided with your life, your chances of him getting out of prison are not very likely, so what have you got to look forward to, seeing him a few times, as I presume you are from Europe, and then having to witness his execution ?
And by the way, I never claimed to know any of these guys, only what I have read about the case.
I wish you luck with your life.
Ron

I cant for th life of me understand you Andrea!!! Yeah, what a fullfilled married life you are going to have eh? These animals dont deserve to be able to marry or even get visits!!!! They shoudnt even be alive!! Hey, I atcvtlly sorry… ACTUALLY think you guys deserve each other. Your no diffrnt sorry DIFFERENT. Mindless F**KS!!!! Fight the system all the way. Fight what? They got caught and convicted and he IS going to die!! Maybe not next year or the year after that but the clock is ticking and that day is inevitible. Have a nice life with your husband. Or lack of!!! HA!

Heather,
Well said, maybe Andrea will wake up and realise exactly what is going on with her life, it is a no win situation for sure. Imagine being married and never even holding hands with your husband, no contact whatsoever, what kind of relationship is that. You are right, death row inmates should not be allowed to marry, it just doesn’t make sense.
Ron

Thank you Darren, I agree with everything you stated.

People, ignore the ignorant Andrea. She has so much time on her hands because she has no life. Hah, I’d like to see “pretty” - I’m willing to bet that this is the best she could do. And the killer will certainly not turn anything away that will better his lot in
life/prison.

Anyone who takes a life deserves the Death Penalty. I’m sick of my tax dollars paying for someone in prison.

I’M NOT HERE TO PROVE THAT I’M PRETTY ..UGLY.. WHATEVER YOU WANT TO CALL IT I KNOW WHAT I AM AND WHO I AM I DON’T NEED ANYONE TO RE ASSURE ME HOW PRETTY I AM.. WHAT I HAVE AND DON’T HAVE…ANYWAYZ RON THANK YOU FOR THE MATURE COMMENT HEATHER I HAVE A LIFE THE ONE THAT DOESN’T OBIOUSLY IS U SINCE U FEED YOUR LIFE OF OTHERS HAPPINESS AND UNHAPPINESS HAHA AND HAVE TO GIVE YOUR WORTHLESS OPINIONS TO THE WORLD LIKE WE CARE SHUB THEM UP WHEREVER THEY FIT AND HOPEFULLY FIND YOURSELF A MAN YOUR PROBABLY ONE OF THOSE NOT EVEN A PRISONER WOULD MARRY….SORRY BUT THIS IS MY LIFE NOT YOURS DON’T WANN A HEAR DONT COME TO BLOGS LIKE THIS ONE..

How low is your self esteem when you have to marry a convicted killer. ……You are also too dumb to understand that. These are senseless murders of young girls full of life and promise. Not a crime of passion but a calculated sport killing. These men are hateful killers who have no place on this planet. May God have mercy on the young souls, because we sure as hell ain’t. I would prefer a public stoning to death… that would be much more appropriate.

“DEATH BE UPON THE SORRY FOOLS, AND MAY THERE MINDS BE TORTURED IN THE MINUTES OF WAIT”

Nothing will stop it, and I am laughing every minute I hear them plead for mercy……..HeeHeeHee!! APPEAL DENIED
APPEAL DENIED
APPEAL DENIED
APPEAL DENIED
APPEAL DENIED…….HAHA HAHAHAH!!!!

I am not here to judge or convince anyone to take someone’s side.
First of all, Most of these inmates in death row have had enough time to think and realize what they did was wrong. And they are paying hard being locked in a small cell for what they did. I was pen pal with Jose Medellin a couple of years ago but not anymore, and he seemed mature. He has realized what he did was wrong but there’s nothing he can do to go back in time and change the past. The conditions that he lives, makes him realize all the bad he caused to these girls’ families. People commit errors and these guys are paying for this.
Now, ANDREA, could you please say which guy you married? I know Jose’s brother is in prison too.
Finally, having a pen pal doesn’t make you have low self esteem, at that time I did it because I visited a website ccadp.org and they encourage people to write to inmates to give a litte shine to their lives as they already have no life.
ANDREA, I don’t think you have self esteem either, you married a person who is completely different from what he was years ago and you fell in love of this new person.

News

Just read in the Orlando Sentinel newspaper :

Supreme court upholds Kentucky’s use of lethal injections.

Guess that’s the end of that !!!

Looks like Jose will be executed , two down, one to go.

How soon will Peter Cantu follow him ?

The other two will rot their lives away in jail , that is if some inmate doesn’t kill the child rapists.

Where is Andrea, she last posted on March 5th , if her wonderful husband is Jose , she is likely coming to Texas soon to watch him get the needle.

May Jennifer and Elizabeth rest in peace.

Today’s Houston Chronicle states that an execution date of August 5th has been set for Jose Medellin.

The child rapist and murderer will finally pay for the torture inflicted on the two young girls, it’s about time !

Say goodnight Jose.

I live in a state that has no capital punishment law. When it is proven beyond resonable doubt. That heinous murder was committed as is in this case I’m all for the death penalty.

To the female wanting to marry inmate. I think it’s a good thing. If he was just sitting in the death row he might want to “end it” get it over with.

With a female writing and possibly visiting him. Now he’ll have regret he’ll want to live. He’ll wish and prey not to die.
He’ll go to his death crying. GREAT !!

Rest in peace Jennifer and Elizabeth

yea Andrea, what happened to you?? Hope you have come to your senses about being married to a MONSTER!! Really, what kind of life can you have with someone that is doing life in prison? Open your eyes look at the crime he committed and think, does he have a chance to come out again? NO BABY GIRL HE DOESN’T! And I am gald he can’t come out to have children with you cause he will do this to his child. I was naive like you and did what you did marry someone in prison. It took me 7 years to realize I was never going to have a normal marriege, or husband the way I deserved. It doesn’t make you a bad person because you married someone that comitted an evil crime, it just makes you look stupid and ignorant in others eyes. I hope you come to your senses soon!! Please stop saying that only god can take a life, but yet you married someone that took 2 lives…. what do you know about god?????
You still have time to get out, unlike your husband, the rest of his time will be where he is at!!!!!

Angel,

Very well said , I hope Andrea will get something from your message.

I am glad that you got out of your situation , it really is not a normal way of life , there is no future in it.

If Andrea is married to Medellin or Cantu , she won’t have to worry about getting out of her situation , if the state of Texas has it’s way , she will soon be a widow , I just hope that she does not suffer too much over losing her husband !

I hope that you are happy in your life.

You know, I have been reading about Death Row Inmates complaining about not having a television to watch, or how they are locked in their cells for 22 hours a day. Th efact of the matter is they shouldn’t have that right, since their victims didn’t have the right to have their life taken from them by some evil maniac walking the face of this earth. Now don’t get me wrong I am not for the death penalty, but I am not for taking a human life like all of these death row inmates have done. When they commit a hedious crime they loose the rights they had. They shouldn’t even have the right to marry anyone while they are in prison. Has anyone heard from Andrea?

On the website for TDCJ , scheduled executions , it shows Medellin to be executed August 5th.

I can’t imagine how that must feel , knowing the date and time of your death , and waiting around for it to happen.

He really made a bad decision when he was young , and now he will have to pay for it with his life.

Still no word from Andrea , I wonder if Jose is her husband !!!

Peace to the families of Jennifer and Elizabeth.

I hope she came to her senses and realized this was not the life she wanted to live. Maybe a real man came to rescue her.

Where is Andrea , have not heard a word since March 5th , I suspect she was married to Jose the rapist and murderer. Now that Jose has a date with the gurney , she must be in mourning and or hiding.
Maybe she has seen the light after reading the post from Angel , how ridiculous it is to marry a prisoner , there really is no future in it.
If in fact it is Jose , what happens now , does she go to Texas and witness her wonderful husband’s execution ?
Nobody should bring this upon themselves , she knew that he was going to pay for the brutal deaths of those two young girls , it’s called justice , you just can not rape and murder people and get away with it , sooner or later you have to pay the price. I hope for her sake that she is O.K. , people learn from their mistakes , if not , she can always find another D.R. inmate to marry again , Peter Cantu still does not have a date with the needle.

I will apologize in advance for the length of this. I just finished reading Pure Murder, the book written about these murders. I came across your site while searching for up to date info. I felt I needed to say something.

The author of the book described the rapes and murders of Jennifer and Elizabeth in detail. Reading those pages was difficult. I have read several true crime stories, but this time I became quite upset, I had a horrible uneasy feeling. It’s been two days, and I still can’t get what they did out of my head. What those animals did to those girls was horrific. I can’t even imagine having to go though something like that. Then witnesses said they were “giggling like school girls” and “laughing so hard they were crying”. That shows absolutely no remorse for what they had just done. All six of these offenders deserve the death penalty.

I can’t believe Perez and Villarreal will be spared because they were 6 months and 4 months away from turning 18. I’m surprised Cantu hasn’t been commuted to life since he was 3 days away from turning 18 when the murders were committed. I don’t believe someone will mature that much in 4 to 6 months. They committed an adult crime and should be punished as such.

As for Andrea, she needs to get a copy of the book and read what her husband did. I don’t care who she thinks he is now; he tortured those beautiful, vibrant girls. They begged for their lives and all they got in return is more pain. They were humiliated they were, raped in every way possible, they were strangled, kicked, stomped on and then left to decay. I read some where that Perez and Villarreal will be eligible for parole in 2029.

I hope the parole board will read the details of these crimes and keep them in for life.

Thank you for your time and for allowing me to vent.

Connie,

I can feel the pain that you felt reading Pure Murder , this is one of the most horrific crimes ever. All six of those sub human scumbags should have been put to death long ago. There never was any question of their guilt , the police had confessions from all of them.

I do not think that Perez or Villareal will ever make parole , based on the crime , the chances are not likely.

Death row inmates should not be allowed to correspond with the outside world , much less being allowed to marry.

Women like Andrea , who claims that her husband is such a wonderful person , must have absolutely zero self esteem.

Derrick O’Brien ,who was the first of these animals to be executed , was also married while on the row. His wife Noora also proclaimed how wonderful and intelligent he was; she ended up sobbing while witnessing his execution. She then claimed that she would write a book about this wonderful, caring, thoughtful, person that he was. This wonderful man raped and murdered three girls , there was one before Elizabeth and Jennifer.

Andrea also claims to be so happy now that she married a child rapist and killer. For the life of me I will never understand women seeking death row inmates to marry; they know the eventual fate that lies around the corner; it is just asking for a big let down. I guess they are not confident enough to be with a real person. They marry someone that they will never even get to touch , hug , kiss , go to a movie , have children , makes no sense to me.

Thank you for the info on the book , I was not aware that it was even out there , not sure if I want to read it after your brief review.

Take care.

Ron,

I’m not sure if I would recommend the book or not. It’s not only the actual murders and rapes that had me mad. The author goes into the bio for each person involved and to read all the times some of these individuals were arrested and released is mind baffling. Also, they all showed signs of trouble. Some more than others, but I feel that if parents, school personnel and authorities would have paid closer attention, these girls might still be alive and raising their own children. I know there is evil out there, we hear about it every day, but to read about the horrible acts these girls had to endure brings a different perspective. I have to admit that I used to be completely for the death penalty, but as I’ve gotten older, I have not been so strong about it. I still feel that when there is no doubt about a person’s guilt, yes they should be put to death. As with this case. These guys bragged about what they had done and then confessed to the crimes. I know they tried to blame each other, but that didn’t work since the Joe Medellin’s younger brother, testified against all of them. He wouldn’t answer questions at his brother’s trial, but according to his testimony at the other trials, his brother was a willing participant. I will leave it up to you, if you want to read the book. Maybe with a little warning, the actual crimes won’t be so hard to read about. You will have been able to prepare yourself.

Take Care

Connie,

Once again , thank you for the update on the book , it really is a shame that these animals were not put away before that terrible night , Jennifer and Elizabeth might well be raising their own children right now.
I can’t imagine how these kids could even think of such a horrendous crime , much less do it all together , was there not one of them present with a brain who could have stopped them ?
It is interesting where you mentioned that they all tried to blame each other , yet they all took part in the rapes and murder.
I have decided to order the book , I have read enough about this case on the inter net , I really do not think anything else will shock me too much , I actually would like to get into the minds of these pathetic pieces of garbage , try to figure out how they could commit such a terrible crime.
Is there any mention of the younger Medellin , how is his prison life , is he in the general population or isolated from the other prisoners ?

Have a great day.

I, too, just found this website and am almost finished reading the book about the crimes, Pure Murder. These guys most definately deserve the dealth penatly and it is sad that 2 were taken off death row. I hope they get the justice they deserve like Jeffrey Daumer did. Andrea, I assume, is quite embarrased at marrying a convicted childer killer and rapist and that is why she won’t admit to who her husband is. I would guess Medellin since she hasn’t seemed to surface since he was given his execution date. This crime happened in 1994 and these guys should have been put to death long ago. My heart goes out the victims’ familes and I hope that Medellin does see his day on August 5. Next down, Peter Cantu!!!

I bought the book ” Pure Murder “, other than the holocaust stories , nothing I have read left me so angry. These boys were sub human , monsters , they deserve to die for what they did to the two beautiful , young girls.
Their attitudes were despicable , laughing , and joking about taking these precious lives , these scumbags don’t deserve to live , they should have been executed long ago.
I can’t imagine the fear and pain Jennifer and Elizabeth went through during that hour , then having these animals strangle them to death. Lethal injection is too easy for them , at least they have been locked up for all these years and not being able to enjoy the fruits of life.
As for the women who marry these creatures , this I do not understand , as Connie mentioned , Andrea should read the book and see what her wonderful husband did , and how he acted after the crime. To this day they don’t show any remorse for their actions , may they rot in hell. Andrea , wake up and get a life , these idiots don’t deserve to have pen pals and be married !

Ron,

I can tell you feel exactly the way I did after reading that book. I still feel that way. There are times when I’m quiet and what happened to Elizabeth and Jennifer will creep back into my mind. It is so hard for me to understand how any human could torture another that way. Then after they do, act like it’s nothing. Like you said, none of them showed any remorse. Except for O’Brien, at the very end, none of them have even publicly said they did wrong and truly regret it. They all feel as if it was a small error they made in their youth that should have been forgiven by now. I feel that the two brothers that left knowing these girls were in trouble should have been punished too. They knew what was going to happen and did nothing, didn’t even call the cops. I feel all of them should die for what they did. I’m sure they are on the receiving end of the rapes now. At least I hope they are. Even if they are, I don’t feel they will get the reality of what they did. They all live in their own demented worlds. They whine about not have a tv in their cells, and other freedoms. They don’t deserve any freedoms especially not to be able to marry. I have always thought that was an outrage. You commit a crime, you shouldn’t be allowed to have anything except a cell and food. I completely agree with you, may they rot in hell.

Connie

Hi Connie,
You are exactly right , I felt exactly as you did , and I am sure that anyone who reads this book will echo our feelings and grief for the girls.
I also agree about the Sandoval brothers , they should have been punished for not doing anything ,despite hearing the girls call for help.
Had they have called the police , Jennifer and Elizabeth might be alive today.
As for O’Brien showing remorse at the end , was it real or just the fact he knew he was going to die and his victims family were watching him ?
Getting back to the novel , these thugs were bad news from very early on in their lives , hoodlums acting like big tough guys , they were even worse when together acting as bullies. It’s strange that they were all quite short in height , Medellin 5′5″ , Cantu 5,6″ , O’Brien 5,8″ , I also believe that Perez was even shorter. My guess , they had that small man complex !
They do not deserve any rights , they are worthless pieces of shit ( please excuse the language ) , no respect for life. They are poster boys for the death penalty , the only thing they deserve is what’s coming to them on the gurney.
Do you sense a little anger still brewing inside of me !!!!
I also can’t imagine the pain this must have caused to their families , although the parents should accept some of the blame , at 17 - 18 years old , I would have shipped them off to Marine Corp boot camp , that would maybe straighten them out.
I love their pen pal requests , they are meek little angels ,who like you said , made a mistake when they were young , now they are all grown up on death row, wiser than ever. Next thing you know sick groupies are writing to them , even marrying these vial creatures.
Rest in peace Jennifer & Elizabeth.

Take care and have a great day.

Wow, I had no idea that Perez and Villareal will be eligible for parole! What kind of shit is that? They got their death sentences commuted, ok. I got it. I am not comfortable with death penalty for minors in any case. But shouldnt they get LWOP in that case?

And I wonder if thats the issue with Cantu. I mean why hasnt he been executed yet? He was the first one convicted.

I too just finished Pure Murder, and it left me feeling the same way as you guys. Royally pissed off, and quite disturbed. I sure hope the victims families dont read the book, because its just that bad. They sure dont need to relive that.

Melissa,

I recently read that Peter Cantu still has one last appeal pending , once it is denied he will get his execution date. Let him be the last to go , maybe the two before him will make him sweat it out.

Due to the unspeakable brutality associated with these murders , it is not likely that those two monsters will ever see parole , they will rot their lives away in prison.

Take care.

I have just found this site and read all the comments. Elizabeth and Jennifer were beautiful girls and their futures were stolen when they died in misery, humiliation and pain. Absolutely horrendous and unbearable and words ARE inadequate to describe how I feel when I think of what they suffered.

I have known Efrain Perez for 11 or 12 years. It is hard for me to reconcile the person I know with the person that perpetrated this horrific crime. That it is the same person is certain, but I do think the person has changed as he has grown older in prison. Not innocent and never will be, but changed nonetheless. I want to clarify a couple of points to some of the contributors. He has never whined or complained and has always been respectful and polite to me (I am not a young girl but old enough to be his mother). I believe the reason he did not get LWOP is that, at that time his sentence was commuted, TDCJ did not have that option. It was either death or a life sentence with the opportunity for parole. I think Texas now has a LWOP option. I do not think Efrain or Raul Villareal will ever be granted parole because of the horrific nature of the crime. Oh, and he is not short!

I am terribly saddened at all this. I think it is also a tragedy that Efrain and his co-defendants lives were finished on that dreadful evening. Yes, of course, they ruined their own lives and (of course) they ARE still alive. However, with different upbringings ALL these young people could have been working and raising families. That is a tragedy. Surely we should be working for a future where young people don’t get high on weed and booze and don’t run in gangs - where teenagers respect each other and don’t maim and kill.

What I am surprised about is that there is so much VENOM here. Strangers are spitting hatred at each other. Of course bitter things will continue to be said. The crime was unspeakable. But the name calling and nastiness does not help. Reasoned and reasonable debate is a good thing. Surely violent outbursts amongst ourselves surely contributes to the violence we unfortunately live with.

LVS,

I respect your comments regarding Efrain , yes , he may have changed and grown up over the last 15 years or so. However , for those of us who do not write to him , just the sheer brutality of the crime leaves us to judge these five individuals. Lots of people have had shitty upbringings , it is no excuse for what these boys did , to murder the two girls , then laugh , joke , and brag about it shows me no regard for human life. Yes , they ruined their lives that dreadful evening , but what about their victims , they took two young , vibrant lives , innocent girls walking home ! Efrain can live the rest of his life , Jennifer & Elizabeth died a horrible death that evening.

Does Efrain show any remourse for what he did , from what I have read , it seems not. If I were him , I could not live with myself , I would have so much guilt and remourse , I would want to die !

By the way , have you read Pure Murder by Corey Mitchell , these boys were evil from the gitgo , it was a matter of time before this happened , and I believe that if they were not caught , it would have happened again , maybe even more brutal.

Ron

Please dont think that I dismiss for one moment what happened to Elizabeth and Jennifer. I do not. They are foremost in my mind when I talk about this and I am not in the business of making excuses for anyone. That is not what my post was about.

I am not an apologist for anyone.

However, it seems that no-one ever considers the possibility that a person can change. That denies the chance that a person can come to a realisation of the terrible thing they have done. I have met Efrain many times and I know he has remorse. I am aware this will mean nothing to all those baying for blood and as I say I am not an apologist for anyone.

What I wanted to do was highlight the dismay I feel at some of the venomous posts I have read. People taunting other people and jeering about gurneys and needles is sick too, surely.

We should all be attempting to keep ourselves out of the gutter and not join the criminals down in it.

Respectfully.

Ron I forgot to answer your question.

No, I have not read Pure Murder, although have read plenty about the case and know that these boys were in trouble with the law before this crime. I expect I will read it.

And yes, you are right when you say that a rotten or dysfunctional upbringing is no excuse for law breaking of any sort. But mixed with drugs, drink and gangs a rotten upbringing CAN be a toxic mixture for some young people. Not an excuse, just a fact.

LVS,

Your compassion for the girls is evident in the opening statement on your original post , I never thought for a moment that you dismissed what happened to them. You also have not made any excuses for anyone involved in this case.

You seem to be a very caring , compassionate , person who understands both sides of the fence. You are a friend of Efrain and believe that he is a much better person now than he was at the tender age of seventeen. You are right about the venomous posts on this blog , however considering the unthinkable brutality of this crime , people want to see these boys suffer as did Jennifer and Elizabeth.

After reading Pure Murder , I never in my life felt such anger , this was not just murder , they tortured those girls , they kicked and stomped on them , this was a pack of wolves beating on these girls.

In the book , Efrain was not the leader of this sick group of boys , rather a follower , yet he should have known that O’Brien , Cantu , and Medellin would eventually lead him down the wrong path. Those three were the real bad seeds of this gang , they do not deserve any pity whatsoever.

Another question for you , you do not have to answer if you do not want to ! You say that you know Efrain has remorse , has he actually said this to you , or is it just how you feel ?

Take care

Hi Ron

I knew Efrain before I knew what he had been involved in but I know what those boys did. When I researched and discovered what happened that night I actually shook and felt ill. It was sickening and brutal and hard to believe that anyone could do that to those who should have been their friends!! Their ages were similar within two or three years. Kids killing kids. A pack mentality and something very terrifying. We still see this pack mentality everywhere we turn, even on web comment pages.

I guess because I already knew Efrain I didn’t feel anger so much as horror and overwhelming sadness and pity. I do, however, believe in the possibility of redemption - for some if not all. I guess that depends on what there is at the root of the person.

To answer your question about remorse - I was referring to something Efrain said to me some years ago when he was still on death row. I have spoken to other murderers, who say either that they were wrongly convicted and entirely innocent or had their human rights violated. They lied.

Efrain has never once whined and cried ‘unfair unfair’. Not to me - and I know him pretty well. Contrary to opinion he is not in general population but in his cell 23 hours just as he was on death row. He has never asked me for anything.

I have not yet read that book but do know the ringleader was Peter Cantu. His appeals will run out. Sean O’Brian has gone and Jose Medellin will soon be gone. Who knows about their remorse, if any. I can only speak about the man I know.

What happened that night, to so many people directly and indirectly, is a complete and utter tragedy which saddens me to the bottom of my heart. It always will.

regards and take care

Hi LVS,

If what you read on the inter net about this case made you ill , I strongly suggest that you do not read ” Pure Murder ” , the hour that these guys were assaulting the girls is very detailed , a minute by minute description , it is very brutal. The girls begged for their lives , yet all they got was more pain. The worst of the bunch was Medellin , this guy was a complete animal followed closely by O’Brien and Cantu.

It is still beyond me that these kids could let this go on as it did , not one of the five did anything to try and stop it , they laughed like school girls the whole while , they shouted encouragement to each other , all the while calling the girls bitches , whores , and much worse ! Then they go to Peter’s brother’s house and brag to him and his sixteen year old wife about what had happened , not too bright !

I am surprised that you say Efrain is in his cell 23 hours per day , as he was on DR , is the cell larger than DR , does he have contact visits ? I guess he would not be very safe within the general population.

I must say that your posts have got to me , I don’t feel as much anger towards Efrain , he is very lucky to have you as a friend , I just hope he appreciates it. You are a very genuine , unique person.

Take care

Hey Ron

I thank you for what you said to me.

I think I felt ill because it was a shock to learn that a person I knew had done something like that - although we all know that people on death row are not boy scouts! I had thought maybe it was a robbery that went wrong or a gang revenge thing (which would have been bad enough) but nothing had prepared me for that. I found the TDCJ page and read the unembellished, matter of fact, report and the arrest picture. Shocking.

I have actually been thinking about Corey Mitchell’s book and after your post I read some reviews and author’s comments. Something troubles me a little and I would like to run this past you.

Who was present during the entire killing who could tell Corey Mitchell what happened minute by minute? He did not speak to any of the defendants. We know that poor Jennifer and Elizabeth could not tell him. Had the other two boys left out or did they stay to watch what happened? I don’t know the answer to that. But unless they were there and watched the whole thing I can only surmise that Mr Mitchell got his account from Cantu’s brother and his 16 year old wife. But they were not there - they only heard the bragging.

Their account can only, therefore, be hearsay. That is not to say it didn’t happen, we know it did. Only that we must be careful and remember that Corey Mitchell’s job is to sell books. No-one would buy his books if he just wrote facts. His account must necessarily be embellished, and to an extent sensationalised, to attract readers to buy.

I think there is a danger that people will accept that his ‘minute by minute’ account is the ABSOLUTE truth. As an author he has taken the truth and ‘padded’ it out to make a more compelling read. That’s the business he’s in and the way he makes a living.

Perhaps we must all try to separate the sensationalism from the pure fact. Lord knows the facts are bad enough.

What do you think?

Kind regards

Ron

There I was rattling on and forgot to answer your question!

Efrain’s prison cell is regulation size, 6 x 10 or thereabouts. I have never seen the cell of course.

No, he does not get contact visits. We visit through plexiglass using a telephone - just like on dr.

I wont speculate on what would happen if Efrain was in general population because I don’t think that will occur any time soon . As far as TDCJ is concerned nothing is changed - they had to take Efrain out of Polunsky because of the court ruling but other than that it’s business as usual.

regards,

Hi LVS,

In answer to your question about the book , according to the author , the details of the rape came from a combination of things.

After the crime , when the gang members went to the home of Joe Cantu and his wife , they bragged in detail as to what had happened. Things like I did this to Jennifer , then he did that , then I did this to Elizabeth while he was doing that to her , etc., etc. Very detailed accounts of what happened.

The other two boys , the Sandoval twins had left , however they did see Medellin grab Elizabeth and throw her to the ground , as they were walking away , in my opinion they should have been tried as they did nothing to help the girls , they walked away knowing something terrible was about to happen. They did testify against the gang at the trials.

The key witnesses at the trials were Joe and his wife , along with the younger Medellin , Yunni. Yunni testified against everyone except his brother , he was the key witness as he was present throughout the rapes and murders. He was able to give an eye witness testimony with all the gruesome details. Also , the author had access to the gang’s confessions to the police , which were also very detailed , as well as the crime scenes photos.

Even if Corey Mitchell embellished the details somewhat , it was obviously a very horrific situation for the two girls. Personally I do not feel that the author padded the story to sell more books , although I could be wrong.

I still suggest that you do not read the book , in my opinion , it will really trouble you.

Have a great day.

Best regards.

Wow, I am in the middle of reading Pure Murder….and I cannot believe what I am reading is for real. These boys have no concious, or respect for anyone or anything. I have read the above posts, and the one that pisses me off the most, is the one saying how these guys had a bad child hood….I understand that, but that is no excuse for them to do what they have done. I also agree that maybe had someone intervined way before, maybe this terrible crime would have never had happend. These boys were always in trouble. Those boys were responsible for their actions.

LVS
I can understand that since you knew Efrain before you knew the facts of the case, you probably have a better chance of seeing a different side of him. For me it’s easier to see the bad side. I will always feel that he deserves to stay in prison. Actually I still believe he deserved the death penalty. They all did. The crime that was committed was horrible. I have read several books about true crime and I have also watched many TV shows about true crime. Nothing has ever upset me as the details of this crime. They never let up on Jennifer and Elizabeth. They continued to rape and torture them up until the very last. They all had a choice to make and all of them could have walked away and gotten help. But none of them even considered this. They chose to commit this crime and then laugh and carry on about it after word.
If what you say is true and Efrain is showing remorse for what he did, then why hasn’t he ever said it publicly? Even on the CCADP website he says he is “accused” of something very bad. He doesn’t say. I’m here because I DID something very bad. Granted he wrote this about 5 years ago, so I guess he could have changed since then and could now be saying the truth. If so, then he needs to change his pen pal request. It might be easier for me to believe he has grown and changed if he would admit what he did, but I don’t know. I do have to admit it is very hard to be open minded after reading the book. I wasn’t just angry at the gang, I was also very angry that no adult took action when there were obvious warning signs. I truly believe that this horrible crime might never have been committed if each one of these men were punished for previous crimes. It’s commendable that you are able to see past the viciousness of the crime and stay friends with Efrain. I would probably be a much better person if I was able to see past something so horrible.
As for your question about how the author gave such a detailed account of the crime, it’s as Ron said. The details are from the confessions as well as testimony given by Yunni Medellin. According to him, he wasn’t a perpetrator, more of an observer. He did rape one of the girls, but mainly watched what happened. That sounds like he was less guilty, but I don’t think that at all. He is just as guilty as the rest, because he didn’t help Jennifer and Elizabeth.
In closing, you should be proud that you are able to look past ones actions to see another person. If only there were more people like you in the world…

They all deserve the death penalty — even those under 18 years. When Marroquin is executed in a few weeks, they’ll be much joy. Due to their incessant whining and poor me! act, the murderers and their penpals bring it on themselves.

Hi Connie

I said that there had been an expression of remorse, in private to me, when I visited Efrain on death row but I don’t know why there has been no public statement by him. You are right that, yes, the web site entry was many years ago. The photograph is quite old.

It was an extremely brutal crime which stays in my mind. I make no excuses for anyone involved and never have done - how could I as there is no excuse? I have not read the book and may not, I don’t know. But I don’t see past the crime as if it didn’t happen. I just want to believe that, given the fact that Efrain is not to be executed, he can use the years to accept and own up publicly.

I cannot be judge and jury - the punishment is prescribed and that’s it. Perhaps there is a way forward for Efrain, only he knows what’s in his heart. Anyway, I thank you Connie for your comments.

As to a couple of the posts made by others, I just want to make a comment or two.

I did not say any of them had a bad childhood - I said with different upbringings they may have had jobs and families. By upbringings I meant they grew up going down a bad route. I don’t think that anyone would disagree with that. I never said there was an excuse for doing what they did. Please read properly before going off half cocked.

Please also read in context.

I have not made a single comment regarding the death penalty, whether pro or anti. I have never said the convictions were wrong. I have said nothing about the punishment being unfair.

I am not a pen pal.

LVS,

As for reading the book, I don’t think I would recommend it. It might be hard to separate the crime from the person you know now. Then again, since you know him now, it might not really change anything. It will however have an affect on you. I’m sure it would be hard to read something that horrific that involves someone you know. If you do choose to read the book, I would love to hear your comments.

Take care,

Hi Ron

Thanks for clarifying some points for me. I am undecided about the book but maybe I should read it so that I can see for myself what it says. I accept what you say about the sources Corey Mitchell used, such as the confessions etc. Things I have obviously never seen. Neither have I read the testimony of Medellin’s brother or the other boys. How they can live with themselves is beyond me.

Hope you are ok.

Regards

Hi Connie

I am away from home at the moment and I haven’t been able to locate a copy of the book. As you say, it would be hard to read because I do know one of the people involved. I know what they did and have read about it - but by what you and Ron have said it is very graphic.

If I get a copy of the book I will let you have my comments.

Take care
regards

Please read properly before going off half cocked.

Take your own damn advice. This is a blog with open comments. Not every post is to you or about you.

Anonymous, you are right. Not all the posts are about me and if I read it as such then I am obviously mistaken.

I am sorry that you feel the need to curse at me.

Regards

Anonymous,

Why are you being such an a-hole towards LVS , she has been open and honest from her first post on. She has never made excuses or defended anyone , what is the matter with you ?

You my friend , need serious help , you are a very angry person.

I am sorry that you feel the need to curse at me.

Your half ass apology is noted.

Why are you being such an a-hole towards LVS , she has been open and honest from her first post on. She has never made excuses or defended anyone , what is the matter with you ?

Because she was an asshole to me first. Or, do you also have a reading comprehension problem? When did this become Comments Addressing LVS’s Comments on the Pena/Ertman Murders Only thread?

You my friend , need serious help , you are a very angry person.

You my friend, need serious help, you are a very angry person, narcissistic, and have reading comprehension problems.

Ok, Can we please remember why this board was established. Nobody is condoning what these kids did. Please remember these girls, and their familys. What those boys did is beyond understanding.

Anonymous, I was not apologising to you. I said I was sorry you felt the need to curse at me.

You do yourself no favours in being so unpleasant. You have now called me an asshole. I haven’t called you any names.

Shaunie has said that we should remember Jennifer and Elizabeth and I would agree with that. Your nastiness does no credit to their memory at all.

In order to be respectful to both girls I will now close my posts.

Hi Ron and Connie

Thank you both for your constructive comments and the trading back and forth of thoughts about this horrible case. It was good to speak to you both.

Take care and be well

LVS,

Please reconsider about closing your posts , you are one of the more intelligent people on this blog , and most interesting. Just don’t pay attention to Anonymous , he/she forgets to take their meditation !

I have seen Anonymous on other blogs , no mistaking the rudeness , and extreme anger , he/she is just a very nasty person , imagine living with him/her !! ( YIKES )

I have enjoyed your posts , a very different perspective than what is usually written here , it would be a shame to see you go. I am sure that other people here feel as I do.

You also take care and be well.

Oops , I meant medication and not meditation on above post.

Sorry about that.

I knew what you meant Ron!

I had just thought it would be better if I didn’t post as I really don’t want to get into sniping with other people. Trading insults just isn’t my kind of thing.

I would be happy to carry on talking to you and was glad you took the trouble to speak up for me. Thanks. However, I will no longer respond to anyone who cannot be civil.

have a great day

LVS and Connie,

I came across this website , it is another penpal request from Efrain Perez , he says that he is now 32 years old and serving life , which would make it quite recent.

Where before he said he was accused of something very bad , on this site he states” that what has me here is a tragedy , a rape and murder. ”

Thought that this was interesting , he seems to be admitting his guilt.

Peace to Jennifer & Elizabeth.

http://www.cyberspace-inmates.com/perezef.htm

Ron, thank you for this link.

Efrain had expressed this to me, as I told you, but I am glad that he has taken this step on the web page - it is important. I do believe in redemption but this can only come once an admission of guilt is made. I have long believed that Efrain is not an intrinsically ‘evil’ person. I remain hopeful that he can go further.

Of course nothing will change the awful past and nothing can change the opinion of people. Efrain is aware of that.

Remembering the girls, always.

regards

Lvs, It is none of my business, or anyone else’s however I was wondering what the circumstances were to you knowing Efrain. If you have answered this question before, I am sorry for repeating it. I am currently reading posts, and I am not seeing if you addressed this before. Maybe I am missing it. Also I was wondering if he has discussed his case with you. Again like I said it is none of anyones business, I guess I am just despretly trying to understand more of this case. On the other hand maybe this is not for me to understand. Thanks for your time. Have a great day

Shaunie, I first came into contact with Efrain when he was 20 years old. He is now 32. The first contact came through another inmate who had passed my name on and I received a letter from Efrain.

My husband was a Chaplain for many years, some of those years being for death row in Texas. Subsequently, for death row and lock down wings in Louisiana at Angola. Through the ministry I met several inmates in Texas, Louisiana and Alabama. The only person I have wished to remain in contact with is Efrain Perez.

I have met Efrain many times but we have never discussed the case. The only time there has been any reference to it was in the comment I have referred to in my post to Ron.

Hope this tells you what you wanted to know.

Regards

Guess this means no-one has anything left to say - which is a good thing.

There is no profit in hatred. There is no victory in biting and snarling and baiting like dogs in an arena.

All we can do is learn from the horror of the past. Raise ourselves above the beasts. Live in dignity. And learn to love one another.

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.

LVS,

Very well said , really shows your wonderful character.

Best regards.

Thank you LVS to explaining your friendship to me. I am for the death penalty in this case. For the simple reason, that if those girls had been one of my children, I dont think i would be quite so understanding. On the other hand, I think its great that you can still try and maintain a friendship with him. Hope this finds you in good spirits.

Efrain talking about his ‘adolescent mistake’ and accusing the system of exploiting him is some form of remorse? Woul