Though this thread isn’t precisely on the death penalty- I’ll take the opportunity to hijack it.

What do you say to concerns about the death penalty being arbitrarily applied with regard to race and other factors?

What do you do to prevent innocent people from being killed?

I’m not trying to start a shouting match- I’m just curious about the opinion of a death penalty supporter- you seem smart and level-headed. Do you have any hesitations about the death penalty?

Left by Preston on March 9th, 2005 at 11:04 pm

Preston…those are fair questions worthy of thoughtful consideration and dialoge.

Short answers:

There are measures that our government can enact and enforce to reduce the murder of innocent people. But as long as there are evil people in our midst (read: forever), there is no way possible to eliminate murder.

Minority men (especially blacks and hispanics) are sentenced to death at a ratio disproportionate to their percentage of the population as a whole. I don’t believe that this means that they are sentenced to death at a higher rate arbitrarily.

I’m not sure which other arbitrary factors you are alluding to, so I can’t speak to them.

For as long as I can remember having an opinion on the death penalty, I have favored it (I grew up in Conroe, TX…about 20 miles from the Ellis Unit in Huntsville, TX, which is where all state executions were carried out between 1965 and 1999…perhaps my opinions are colored by that fact.)

Any reservations or hesitations I have ever had about the death penalty had more to do with specific cases, rather than the intrinsic right-or-wrong of the Death Penalty itself (such as the Clarence Brandley story—Mr. Brandley was a janitor at my high school).

My hesitations over the use of the death penalty have decreased to nearly 0% as forensic science and criminal investigation technologies have advanced.

I have some more detailed thoughts on these questions…but alas, it’s nearly 11:00 p.m. here in Austin, and I have to be at work at 7:00 a.m.

I think your comment and the questions you posed are good fodder for me to think on, do a little research, and put together a longer post with more details and reasoning behind my support of the death penalty.

Ok…those answers weren’t as short as I thought they would be.

Left by Robbie on March 9th, 2005 at 11:52 pm

Wow- I hadn’t heard about Clarence Brandley but I’m surprised that wouldn’t have a greater effect on your opinion of the death penalty.

I’m happy about the increased importance of DNA testing in murder cases. I’m sure it has given a greater confidence in convictions but I’m not sure if this has eased my concerns about the death penalty. For starters, DNA isn’t always part of the evidence so we are left with witnesses and other evidence that are (as has been demonstrated) often flawed.

Part of my reluctance to use the death penalty (despite my blood lust in the cases of brutal killers) is simply the disparity in the sentencing. I’m not so naive to think that there can be perfect justice- the poor addict in the ghetto doing crack is going to get harder time than the white teenager in the suburbs who buys cocaine at parties or whatever. But when it comes to taking a man’s life I think we have to try harder to level the factors that influence sentencing and judge only on the crime committed.

About race: though many places have a disproportionately high number of blacks and hispanics on death row the race of the victim actually plays a greater role than than the race of the defendant: “University of Iowa law professor David Baldus found that during the 1980s prosecutors in Georgia sought the death penalty for 70 % of black defendants with white victims, but for only 15% of white defendants with black victims.” Taken from http://www.aclu.org/DeathPenalty/DeathPenalty.cfm?ID=9312&c=62 (sorry for the ACLU link- I’m sure that’s not encouraged around here- but it was the first place I found the stats…)

Other factors (income): Poorer defendants get the death penalty more often. It’s a capitalist country and we accept that the rich get nicer cars and bigger houses. But shouldn’t the justice system strive for some type of equality. Granted, we’re not going to give every defendant access to Johnny Cochran but there is clearly something unjust about a system of justice that reserves the death penalty for poor high school dropouts.

Well, say we were suddenly able to administer the death penalty with ‘fairness’ or there is no doubt in the guilt of the defendant. Why are we using it in the first place? Most would cite deterrent effect. But it seems like given the cost of death row- millions per customer- that it would be more efficient to put that money back into paying for more cops on the streets. The purpose of death penalty is to discourage murder but if we can find cheaper ways to do this wouldn’t it be immoral not to use them instead?

And is it effective at all? One study from 1980-2000 found that the homicide rate in states with the death penalty has been 48 percent to 101 percent higher than in states without the death penalty. FBI data showed that 10 of the 12 states without capital punishment have homicide rates below the national average. This correlation might suggest cheaper and more effective ways to prevent homicides.

Just a few of my feelings about it. I guess another consideration- while not exactly intellectual or moral- is a global perspective on countries that use the death penalty. A few of our ‘allies’: Afghanistan, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Belarus, Botswana, Burundi, Cameroon, Chad, China,
Congo, Cuba, Egypt, Equatorial Guinea, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Indonesia
Iran, Iraq, Jordan, Kazakhstan, North Korea, Kuwait, Kyrgyzstan
Laos, Lebanon, Libya, Morocco, Myanmar, Nigeria, Pakistan, Palestinian Authority, Rwanda, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, Uzbekistan
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0777460.html to see more.
These are some of the worst governments in the world! It’s just embarrassing to be on any list with the likes of them. I know that’s not intellectual- but it’s just my pride…

Well, I guess my boss would like it if I went back to work.

Left by Preston on March 10th, 2005 at 1:33 pm

Do you have a limit on reply length?

Left by Preston on March 10th, 2005 at 2:21 pm

Ah….I see why you asked about comment lenght now….(I just checked my Admin Panel)….

Comments that contain more than one hyperlink are held in cue pending manual approval (this is an anti-spam measure, not a censorship tactic).

I should add a note on the Comments Entry page that lets readers know that comments with certain key words (such as ‘viagra’ or ‘poker-online’) or hyperlinks will be posted once I verify that they are not spam (usally same day).

Left by Robbie on March 10th, 2005 at 2:54 pm

Sorry with pestering you… I couldn’t figure out the problem.

Left by Preston on March 10th, 2005 at 3:02 pm

some make bad decisions and regret it later. I’m a penpal of Robert, it was a good decision to write him, I don’t regret anything. Just don’t judge people by what they have done.

Left by Elisabeth on April 4th, 2005 at 5:05 am

Don’t judge people by what they’ve done?

Then what criteria should we judge people by, Elisabeth? By the things that they thought about doing? Or maybe we should judge them by the things they didn’t do?

You might not want to judge Robert Acuna for the wasted life he has lived…for the senseless murders (MURDERS, not ‘mistakes’ or ‘bad decisions’—there’s a difference. A HUGE difference) that he has committed.

I think I have every right to judge Acuna for his crimes. As does the rest of society. As did a jury of his peers and a judge. And we have found him to be a disgusting blight on the face of humanity, and we’ll be better off once he is dead and gone.

Left by Robbie on April 4th, 2005 at 10:35 pm

the world won’t be better if murderers are executed. keeping them in prison for their entire life is enough, they’re away from society as well.

Left by Elisabeth on April 11th, 2005 at 4:35 am

Keeping them for their entire life is enough for whom? Maybe for the murderous slime who slaughtered their innocent eldery neighbors, or who raped then strangeld to death the children that they lived next door to…

But I assure you, having those murderous, evil, vile people still living is not enough for the familes of their victims; it is not enough for a majority of the citizens of this country…

Punishment for crime has many facets…only one of which is to separate the criminal from society, or simple restitution. Another, and perhaps the most important, facet is the punishment itself. In other words, when you commit a crime you should be punished to fit your crime.

In the crimes of Robert Acuna…death more than fits the crimes for which he committed.

Left by Robbie on April 11th, 2005 at 9:50 am

remember: prisons are CORRECTIONAL facilities.

Left by Elisabeth on April 20th, 2005 at 6:35 am

You seem to think the term ‘correction’ equates to ‘rehabiliation’ of the criminal.

I disagree strongly. Me and most of society believes that correction equates to ‘correcting the wrong’ done by the criminal.

Phil Aldridge, a Police Academy recruit, wrote a great post called The Goal of Punishment:

I disagree that rehabilitation is the goal of punishment. The goal of punishment is to make people stop doing bad things. The majority of crimes are committed by the same minority of people, so obviously we are not rehabbing anyone. Prison should do two things: Keep bad guys safely behind bars, and serve as an unpleasant consequence to bad behavior. That way people in prison can’t commit crimes and people outside of prison won’t want to commit crime for fear of imprisonment.

It’s prison, not bed-wetting camp! I don’t care if criminals grow and mature or not. I don’t see a kinder gentler approach to incarceration as an answer to recidivism. By being kinder and gentler to career criminals, we are totally missing the boat.

I don’t want criminals to have hope. I want a life of crime to be a hopeless soul-crushing experience. I want every moment to be filled with fear and trepidation. These people have broken their contract with society and it should really suck for them!

I couldn’t agree more. And if SCOTUS won’t let us execute Acuna (which he deserves, and which the people of Texas have deemed the appropriate punishment for his crimes), then I hope every single waking moment of his life in prison is soul-crushingly miserable.

Left by Robbie on April 20th, 2005 at 9:45 am

Hey Robbie, thanks for the nod!

To Elisabeth:

You are correct that prisons are “correctional” facilities. However, your view of correction is a bit narrow. The anomaly that prisons attempt to correct is the propagation of criminal acts by aberrant members of society. This happens in many ways:

If you get in a bar fight, you may spend the night in jail. This is to detoxicate you. Your significant other will bail you out, no big deal. The situation was corrected.

If you get a DUI, you may spend a year or less in jail. When you get out, you will say to yourself “Man, that sucked. I won’t be doing that again.” If you do it three more times, you’ll be spending quite a bit more time in state prison for your lack of correction.

If you maliciously end the life of another human being, the state may decide to correct you once and for all. America (typically) takes Life very seriously and treats it a very important. Those who unlawfully end the lives of others may be deemed unworthy of keeping their own and may be force to give it up to correct their mistake.

In all these situations, something is being corrected. In the case of your pen pal, they are wanting to correct him in a very effective way. After this ultimate form of correction, I can guarantee he will never harm another living thing. Everyone wins.

Left by Phil Aldridge on April 20th, 2005 at 4:06 pm

Elizabeth - let me guess… he’s poor, right?

O.J. proved that it has NOTHING to do with the color of a persons skin. Justice may be blind but money talks. If Michael Jackson were a poor white guy, the State would be using him to milk the probation ” Cash Cow.” He’d go to jail on trumped up charges, bond out, get a ” Public Pretender,” cop a phony plea bargain, pay the probation dept. every month, pay a State Counselor once a week, violate probation because he couldn’t find a job or a place to live, go back to jail, bond out, get a “Public Pretender,” cop a plea for LONGER probation, LONGER counseling, violate probation again…and on and on he goes through the revolving door.

Not because of the color of his skin.

You may think that slavery was abolished but it wasn’t. It was expanded by poverty to include ALL colors. But if Michael Jackson were poor he would have been murdered in jail before he could bond out…not because he’s black but because he is weird.

A criminal will only get as much fair due process and justice as he/she can afford and like anything else, you get what you pay for. In some cases the “New Money” people will be punished to keep everybody thinking that the scale is balanced.

A couple of months at “Camp Cupcake” are not what would happen to “Jane Six Pack ” if she did what Martha did. And if it were a man BORN into money the system would play David Copperfield with the law and make it go away or find a “Climber ” to pin it on.

I’ll bet Jeb Bush’s daughter that was jailed for a drug felony jumped out of the jailhouse window and resisted arrest she wouldn’t have gone before the judge brutalized to the piont that SHE couldn’t be recognized by her own mother, with a mask to cover what the cops did to HER face and paraded around for weeks on the news to be dehumanized like the poor black man that we’ve been seeing on the news and his poor family FORCED out of the courtroom TRAUMATIZED and HORRIFIED and treated like criminals because of the natural way that any HUMAN being SHOULD react. [ed: that’s the longest sentence I’ve read in a long time]

And it should SHOCK people that the family was the only ones that reacted that way.

And if we had a REAL news media instead of the empty flesh that is being used to help DUMB DOWN and BRAINWASH the population, they would be talking to this family and this man’s LAWYER and congressmen and asking some real pointed questions.

But being the good little Nazis that they are…they will haunt the “RUNAWAY BRIDE ” until she is criminalized for having cold feet at the last minute or some other NON- STORY to keep the country bewitched until we have completely lost anything that resembles a constitution and succumb to martial law.

The same thing would have happened to a HILLBILLY. The guy that killed Jessica Lundsford begged not to be released from jail. He said he was afraid of what he would do. Now he’ll be on death row when he should have been treated and put in a hosp on the floor for the criminally insane long ago… the rest of his family with him. But no the “Nazi Ghouls” want to hear the public sing the death chant.

Left by DEBRA on May 5th, 2005 at 1:24 pm

Robert Acuna is from an upper middle class home in one of th best parts of Baytown. His father, who admittedly lied to police during the course of the investigation and concealed evidence, is a manager at the ExxonMobil refinery. Robert even had a job, at a Wendy’s….where he stole from the manager.

In other words, he was not on drugs, not a minority in the conventional sense (his mother, the one who does all of the talking, is white), had a good childhood, and more opportunity than 98.9% of the children in this world will ever have. As for their being any question of his guilt, his attoneys did not call ONE witness or offer that he might have been anywhere else….their entire defense was based solely attempting to defame the State’s witnesses, with a little psychological smoke and mirrors thrown in for good measure (from paid experts…..paid for by the State of Texas, by the way…his family, although living in a $250,000 home, used public defenders).

My folks would have given him the money and the car if he had just asked….but, no - he wanted to be a gangsta, so he bought a gun and killed them both in cold blood, and now he has acheived a level of notoriety he more than likely never would have had he led a righteous life; he has become symbol for all of the naive little Elizabeths of the world who believe in talking flowers, dancing bears, and the innate good that we all have inside of us. May your delusional fantasies serve you all well. His mom will be spending the day with her beloved son on Mother’s Day. I will be driving to the graveyard to leave some flowers for mine.

Left by Tim Carroll on May 5th, 2005 at 4:41 pm

Tim,

Thank you very much for stopping in and contributing to this discussion. I think it’s very clear how I feel about the man who murdered your parents, and I extend my deapest condolences to you—especially with Mother’s Day this weekend.

One of the reasons I blog is to try to give a voice to people like you and your parents. Your’s are the stories the media spends 2 minutes telling and then quickly forgets…yet they’ll spend hours and hours for years and years to tell the stories of the Robert Acuna’s of the world.

Left by Robbie on May 5th, 2005 at 6:00 pm

It is only human nature for people to have their opinions, but I hope that people recognize how irresponsible it is to make blanket moral judgments, that one intends to wear on one’s sleeve, inside of a vacuum - in this case, having never felt the loss of a precious loved one slaughtered at the hand of some amoral and evil punk. Ever wonder why so many cops have alcohol problems, psychological problems, problems staying in a relationship, and are all pro death penalty? Because they have to see the reality every day, not the whitewashed “lite” version of the news that is approved for family viewing, and it is depressing to the human spirit to see it. So, if hope coninues to spring eternal to these anti-death-penalty bell ringers, I say, peace be with you, may your delusions serve you well, and may you never have to feel as empty inside as I do……every day.

Left by Tim Carroll on May 6th, 2005 at 1:58 pm

Mr. Carroll , I hope you did not put me under the “Anti Death Penalty ” blanket . I never used to be against it ( and I am not always )untill I saw it being abused . Jail was never intended to be the place to house mentally ill people … in and out they go … untill they can be put on death row AFTER they have been allowed to murder . “The criminally insane “, often beg not to be let out of jail before they commit murder when they needed to be in a hospitol for treatment and either kept there or monitored from there . That seems to be the “Mental Health Care Plan ” in place for the poor and unfortunately it puts society at risk and with the borders wide open and many children growing up without the direction and care needed , in a society that turns a deaf ear and a blind eye, OBLIVIUOS to what is going on around them with a ” Devil May Care ” attitude …never dropping a note to congress …never attending a town meeting …untill something happens TO THEM …I don’t see how it can get anything but worse . I wish I could rock you and say something to make what has happened to you all better . I feel so bad for you because I know that this will not always be so painful but nobody ever really recovers . I can tell you as a victim (not exactly of the same thing ) one day you will begin to have good memories things that push the pain of this away untill your bad days are fewer and farther between . And the loved ones that you miss so much did not enter your life in vain … their purpose and influence in your life is there to stay . In that way our loved ones can never die and will always be close . May God … whose justice is true and fair… be with you to comfort and keep you in peace all the days of your life , in Jesu’s name .

Left by DEBRA on May 8th, 2005 at 11:48 am

hey i knew robert me and him were good friend he was always quite even though he didnt commite the crime by him self he was the only one that got time

Left by james williams on July 8th, 2005 at 1:29 am

I don’t know how you fat redneck americans thinking when you is teenager but in Europe your brain isn’t that developed as a adults one.

Acuna didn’t deserve the DP and thank god that the supreme court ruled against the DP for kids!

You bastards is all cold blood ass killers. I hope you all so called “Pro-DP” Texas white males get sentanced to death. Violence breeds violence.

Left by The Black Panther on July 21st, 2005 at 1:36 pm

Ah, another anti-death penalty, semi-illiterate, criminal-apologist from Amsterdam. How surprising.

See, “Black Panther”, the reason I won’t ever be sentenced to death (even here in Texas), is that I don’t ever go out and murder innocent people. It’s rather simple really — don’t kill people, don’t get sentenced to death.

Bashing in an old-man’s head with a car bumper is violence. Having a needle and some drugs shoved into your veins until you are dead? That’s justice.

Left by Robbie on July 21st, 2005 at 2:10 pm

Apparently your brain is not all that developed in Europe when you’re an adult, either.

Left by Tim Carroll on July 27th, 2005 at 2:11 pm

im doing a research project on
juvenilles on death row
and need to contact Rober Acuna…
appearently he has a penpal
personal ad page but unfortunately ive
been unable to find it.

if ANYONE is willing to help me out
that would be wonderful!

just send me his info (i.e. address… ad URL)
to geliluvsabercrombie@yahoo.com

TIA!

Left by Geli on January 28th, 2007 at 12:34 pm

OK MY NAME IS BRIZ AND ROBERT WAS MY FRIEND IN HIGH SCHOOL I NEVER THOUGHT HE WOULD DO ANYTHING LIKE THAT =. HE WAS QUIET, SWEET & KIND. SO DOES HE DESRVE THIS IN A WAY I BELIEVE HE DOES BUT THEN AGAIN HE IS MY FRIEND SO I STIL HAVE THE HOPE THAT SOME DAY HE WILL OCME OUT AND I WILL BE ABLE TO SEE HIM AND TALK TO HIM

Left by Anonymous on December 22nd, 2007 at 1:35 pm

robert was a really good friend of mine and we were going to go to prom together….im shock about this situation he was always quiet and so kind…but i dont beleive he did that….well hopefully the truth comes out someday…. because i dont beleive he did that crime…

Left by sylvia on June 7th, 2008 at 10:42 pm

Sylvia: You’re full of crap. The pos was arrested in November. No one makes prom plans that far in advance. And he did it. If you can’t figure it out, you are too dumb to comment here.

Left by Anonymous on July 3rd, 2008 at 8:02 am