You know it was the US that pushed for the international law ensuring access to the consulate for the accused in foreign countries because there are more American travellers in the world than from any other country.

I can be sure I would be a little pissed if I convicted of a crime in Mexico without access to our embassy.

Left by Preston on March 29th, 2005 at 10:40 am

Here’s a thought…

When you go to Mexico, don’t rape and murder any of their citizens.

If Jose Medellin had kept that simple thought in mind when he crossed our borders, he wouldn’t have to worry about needing access to his consulate.

Left by Robbie on March 29th, 2005 at 10:48 am

Thanks for the link! If you read the article I have no problem executing the mexican but I do have a problem when my personal safety is put at risk for a radical right wing political agenda. Its one thing if you commit a crime in another country and they arrest you but when you are wrongly accused and arrested I think you sould want access to you r consulate.

Left by The Bastard on March 29th, 2005 at 11:01 am

Well we can agree on that.

But aside from the finding of guilty or not guilty there is an assumption is that foreign nationals are not aware of their rights. If the police had simply informed the accused of their rights there wouldn’t have been a problem.

This goes to one of my pet peeves about the conservative/liberal debate. Liberals are called anti-business when they want the rules enforced that keep businesses from cheating customers or investors. They’re call ’soft on crime’ when they want rules enforced that give us faith in the fair prosecution of crimes.

In fact, these rules enhance the standing of business and the criminal justice system. When people have faith that they won’t be ripped off good businesses do better. When people have trust in the legal system there is less corruption and more effective prosecution.

I wish I understood how anyone enabling and facilitating Enron and Arthur Andersen could be called ‘pro-business’….

Left by Preston on March 29th, 2005 at 11:12 am

Bastard:

Good point- it’s a similar situation to the Bush Administration endangering our troops (and anyone travelling abroad) by flouting the Geneva Convention.

We want rules for the rest of the world to follow but manage to find a reason why they don’t apply to us.

Left by Preston on March 29th, 2005 at 11:31 am

Maybe it’s because the rest of the World doesn’t follow them either…

You act as if American citizens’ ‘rights’ abroad are being upheld…you know, the rights of US citizens like Nicholas Berg. I wonder if he was granted full access to the US Embassy before they cut his head off?

The UN is breaking more international laws these days than they are enforcing. Hell, we can’t even count on these guys not to rape (literally) and plunder the people they are supposed to protect.

Besides, it appears that Jose Medellin, wasn’t ‘deprived’ of his rights. He was just too stupid to ask for them. If the guy doesn’t ask to speak to his embassy, that’s on him. And, 4-years down the road, when he realizes that’s what he should have done…well, it’s a bit late.

If you go to a foreign country illegally, I think you give up any ‘rights’ in that country that you think you’re entitled to. And when you rape and murder their citizens while you’re there illegally, you have even fewer rights.

Left by Robbie on March 29th, 2005 at 11:44 am

No one expects terrorists to be the standards of moral authority.

However, implicit in our crusade for democracy is the notion that we have a system of laws and rights protecting the individual. If we are willing to do away with them in persuit of terrorists then- if I may paraphrase Benjamin Franklin- we do not deserve those rights.

Left by Preston on March 29th, 2005 at 11:51 am

I understand that view, too, Preston.

I’ll tell you what, I think in this situation we should offer the Mexican Gov’ment a compromise…tell them we’re going to execute Medellin, because—well, he’s guilty as hell, and has admited to his crimes. But in the future we’ll make sure all of their citizens who break laws in our country have legal access to their consulate.

But only if that compromise includes the language and understanding that we still fully plan to execute Mexican citizens who come to our country and committ capital offenses against our citizens.

Left by Robbie on March 29th, 2005 at 2:15 pm

I imagine I’ll have to settle for that ‘compromise’.

I’ll be over here reflecting on my formidable powers of persuasion…

But more seriously- allowing this conviction to stand provides no incentive for local law enforcement to abide by the promise of future compliance. If he is so clearly guilty (I have no knowledge or opinion of this case) it shouldn’t be a problem re-convicting him with appropriate counsel.

Left by Preston on March 29th, 2005 at 2:50 pm

Wait a minute Jose. Everybody knows the laws in these United States. If you are a child killer or serial killer, for example, you’re guaranteed at least 20 years of appeals and 3 squares a day courtesy of the U.S. taxpayer. Heck you can even get married, get a college degree… the possibilities are limitless. Your fellow countrymen risk their lives by the tens of thousands every year to get here. Are you really sure you want to go back to Mexico?

Left by dianne on March 30th, 2005 at 6:17 am

Yeah, I bet prison is a blast. Throw in some beatings and rapes and it’s no wonder we have millions begging to stay in there.

Left by Preston on March 30th, 2005 at 9:44 am

By the way, please don’t tell me you’re opposed to felons getting married or getting an education in prison. Maintaining family connections and getting an education are proven ways to lower recidivism.

Surely the need for vengeance isn’t so great that we are going to refuse to do things that actually lower the crime rate?

Left by Preston on March 30th, 2005 at 9:48 am

Maintaining family connections and getting an education are proven ways to lower recidivism.

You know what works even better for lowering recedivism? Executing people who deserve to die. Like Jose Medellin. And Raul Villareal. And the other 3 gang members who raped and murdered those two young girls. I don’t give a damn if the gang members were 16, 17, or 18 at the time.

And no amount of ‘family visits’ or ‘continuting education’ is going to ‘rehabiliate’ a person who has it within himself to rape and murder young girls. That correspondence course just hasn’t been developed yet.

Left by Robbie on March 30th, 2005 at 9:58 am

Of course the comment regarding recidivism is directed at people who aren’t going to spend the rest of their lives in jail.

Left by Preston on March 30th, 2005 at 10:13 am

you guys are all idiots the should release every fucking gangmember on earth they’re fucking fine we need them to fuck ya know OUT HERE SO PLEASE LET”S STOP ENCARsaRATION

Left by sandy on April 1st, 2005 at 4:29 pm

Hey Preston, If you would like knowledge of the case visit the website that tells their story. All you have to do is type in Jennifer Ertman or Elizabeth Pena and it will take you right to it. I am a police officer in Houston where the crimes occured and trust me I have seen a lot of brutal things in my life, but nothing compares and nothing could prepare anyone for the things that were seen the day the girls bodies were found. Maybe you should read the story, then make a determination yourself about the people you seem to be defending. While you are reading the story try to imagine how the girls felt during their last few moments on earth.

Left by Joe on April 3rd, 2005 at 3:20 am

Joe- my reservations about the death penalty don’t have anything to do with the brutality of the crime- of course vengeance is the first impulse after a disgusting act such as these murders.

I’m more interested in effectiveness: could the millions of dollars used to prosecute the death penalty be better used to put more cops on the streets?

Theoretical: do we want to give the state such power to take life?

Procedural: historically there has been hugely unjust application of the death penalty: black victims are seemingly held in lower esteem. The DNA evidence that has overturned so many cases should lead us to question not facilitate the procedures leading to capital punishment.

If it could be proved that the death penalty saved innocent lives there might be a moral weight to its implementation. But in fact states with the death penalty have a higher murder rate leading me to believe that it might simply be perpetuating, shall we say, a ‘culture of death’.

I even worry about the victims of the families in the implementation of the death penalty. From what you hear on television there seems to be this false belief that killing the killer brings ‘closure’. It seems that the capital punishment process simply strings along loved ones through a process to deliver a result that is doomed not to meet their expectations.

Lastly, if we look around the world I’d rather align our country with nations such as Canada and Germany, not Saudi Arabia and China.

Left by Preston on April 3rd, 2005 at 8:21 am

Preston, I must say you do convey a very persuasive argument. I agree that there should be absolutely no doubt of the guilt of the person in question before the death penalty is administered (There is no doubt in the quilt of these six animals that committed this crime.) As a matter of fact not only did they admit to the crime but they laughed about it during there interviews with the police and bragged about it to other inmates while in the county jail. At least two of the six individuals have been implicated in a similar murder the year before this happened. One of them while on death row made a homemade knife and stabbed a gaurd causing permanant nerve damage. So I ask you is it possible to rehabilitate a person like this. Highly unlikely.

Secondly, unless you are faced with the same situation as the Ertmans and Penas how could you possibly know what there expectations are? So how could you say that this process is doomed not to meet their expectations? It may meet or even exceed their expectations.

Next, You could not actually believe that putting more police on the streets would stop crimes. Could You? Ninty five percent of a police officers day is spent responding to a call after the crime has been committed. The other five percent (if it is really that high of a percentage) the police officer just got lucky and happened upon a crime. Sure this would increase the odds of getting lucky but no amount of police officers could stop crime from happening all together. So in reality you would be spending less money with greater effect by utilizing the death penalty as a detterant to the crime. I understand that the crimes will still happen even though the death penalty is in place, but if it sent one rational thought through one would be killers head just before he killed your 14 year old daughter and he changed his mind, wouldn’t it be worth it. Unfortunalty this would only work if the final process is carried out, its not enough just to threaten.

Comparing our judicial process to the likes of Saudi Arabia and China is like comparing apples and oranges. Yes the final result is the same but our process is carried out in a controlled enviroment. After years and years of appeals. Not out in the streets for all women and children to see with no chance of appeals or a fair trial.

Finally, I ask you did you go to the website and read about these two young girls? If you have not, I urge you to do so.

Left by Joe on April 4th, 2005 at 4:10 am

Joe:

Thanks for the reasoned reply- I was expecting you to come out swinging…

No, I actually haven’t gone to read about the murder. I frankly don’t have the stomach for it. I’ll trust you that it was as barbaric as you say. (and I wonder what the hell these guys were doing on the street if they had done this crime before)

I’ll admit that I am speculating (and on uncertain ground) when I suggest that capital punishment provides false hope to the families of the victims. I should have explained my thinking a little more clearly: I simply feel that by its nature the capital punishment process last years longer than a simple life sentence- there is appeal after appeal. So the ‘closure’ (such an absurd concept when relating to the murder of a family member) that could happen after a few months in a non-death penalty state lingers on and on in a place like Texas. I have no proof for this so I’m open to consideration.

My greater points however, are about the effectiveness of capital punishment. Does it actually provide a deterrence? You’d think it would be proven by now. People like these killers don’t really seem to be the kind of foward-looking thinkers that deterrence would have an effect on.

But as to your point about the ineffectiveness of cops on the street: I’m surprised to hear you say so. I believe the reduction in crime in New York City, for example, was in part due to the number of cops (in addition to demographics and the waning of the crack epidemic). If you are arguing the effectiveness of deterrence- the greatest deterrent would be simply arresting the perpetrator and this can only happen with a satisfactory police presence.

While we may feel the desire for vengeance I’m not sure if this is a power we want to give the state particularly given the provable discrepancies in its application.

Left by Preston on April 4th, 2005 at 9:15 am

Preston, Once again you are right about many aspects of the things you speak of, but once again I need to challenge a few points.

You are right these type of killers are probably not forward thinking enough to consider the consiquinces (have no idea how to spell that word) of there actions. But there are other types of killers out there that don’t just kill in the heat of the moment, the scary thing is a lot of them have an extremely high intellect. So once again I pose the question to you if it saved just one wouldn’t it be worth it. Preston, unfortunately there is no way to prove if capital punishment acted as a deterant or not because if they did not commit the crime we will never have a chance to talk to them about it.

Please don’t get me wrong about the number of police on the streets, I would like nothing more and I don’t feel that they are ineffective, I was merely pointing out the fact that they can not be everywhere at once and crime will always happen no matter how many police we have on the streets.

You are exactly right, that the greatest deterent would be to simply arrest the perpetrator but that is much harder than you make it sound. One thing people forget is a criminal has no rules that he has to play by the police do. If the police break the rules the media jumps on them and makes them the bad guy. Granted in some cases the police are the bad guys and deserve the negative media but in most cases where a subject is released due to police error it is a simple mistake that an individual officer makes. The OJ case is a fine example, but in that there were a combination of many major mistakes and small ones (or what I would consider small) (some may not). OJ is guilty as sin and he walks a free man today simply because he didn’t have to play by any rules. Which brings me to my next point. The two punks that were implicated in the murder the year prior to the Ertman/Pena murders were only implicated when DNA testing was taken sometime after their arrest for the Murders of the two girls. I am not real sure but I believe that they had already been convicted, sentenced and placed in prison before these tests were taken, so it very well could have been several years later. Realy am unclear on this.

Preston, I understand that you may have problems stomaching the details of the murders of these two girls, but please I beg you read there story, it is very detailed and may give you some sort of an idea of how these girls felt when this was happening to them. There are no pictures of the aftermath, I think you can handle it. I read it at least once a year in rememberance and find myself swelling up with tears. Not only that but there very well may be something within this story that you could pass on to a loved one that may save their life someday.

I enjoy our correspondence and hope that you would read there story and maybe change your mind, at least about these six animals only five of which were every on death row two have now been removed due to the recent Supreme Court ruling.

Left by Joe on April 5th, 2005 at 3:03 am

Well, I just read the story. It was horrific. Our judicial system is totally out of control. Kill Terri Schiavo but save somebody who has brutally raped and murdered children. I don’t get it. Where are we headed in this country?

Left by dianne on April 5th, 2005 at 8:14 am

Ok- Joe, I read the piece. It is, of course, terribly sad. Particularly the part about the one girl returning to try and help the other.

So, do I believe that these animals should die probably. But I believe that legal system should be run on higher ideals that just my emotions. 1000 years ago it would be legal to avenge a murder with another. Societies determined that wasn’t the smoothest or most ethical way to run- but it was hard to argue with the results.

Similarly, I want our government to decide on the legality of capital punishment based on its effects on society not simply the passions of the agrieved. Surely, there is some Old Testament justice to the sentence and the certainty that the convicted will not kill again. But I personally don’t believe that those points outweigh the downsides I’ve mentioned before: the cost, the lack of effectiveness as a deterrent, the arbitrary application of the law, the possibility of mistakes, and the simple conservative value of a limited government.

Left by Preston on April 5th, 2005 at 6:12 pm

Well Preston, I think I got out of you what I wanted. At least you say that these six savages need to die. I have to admit that before this case I was niether for or against the death penalty, it really didn’t matter either way. I still have reservations about it. But in cases such as these I say fry em. I agree with you Dianne. It has been nice corresponding with you Preston, you have made me open my eyes to some things thanks. Keep these two girls and many others just like them in your thoughts and Prayers.

Left by Joe on April 7th, 2005 at 2:49 pm

Not to break up the good feelings but I wouldn’t quite characterize my post that way. I obviously think they are scum but I have many reservations about killing them for the reasons I’ve outlined above.

In any case, it has been interesting discussing this with you.

Left by Preston on April 7th, 2005 at 5:00 pm

dont worry about it leave them alone hello idiots theres women out here waiting for them hello

Left by Andrea on June 13th, 2005 at 11:13 am

Andrea- I am very interested in speaking to you. You said on a different thread that you are marrying on of the 6? However, I think that the comments you make are baseless and immature. To prevent giving all female associates of inmates a bad rap, I suggest you improve your style of communication.

Joe- You are a Houston cop. Did you work this case personally? What is the extent of your knowledge on the evidence used to convict? What I’m getting to particularly is, all emotions aside, do you believe the evidence was there for a solid conviction?

Preston- I am with you on all of the iniquities with the death penalty. I was on the fence for a long time. You know, of course if it happened to me then retribution would say an eye for an eye. However, the rest of that scripture reads “vengence is mine”. There is one Supreme Judge all criminals will answer to when the time comes. It is not mans place to judge. Yes, if they are found guilty, then lock them up. I think being locked up for life is worse than sudden death. I know Jose personally. Yes, the crime disgusts me. We have talked about it often. But I know the person that he has become after 12 years of incarceration. No one wants to here this but, people do chance for the better. The goal of the prison system initially was rehabilitation to prevent recidivism. I think we the people have given up on the system because it seems to favor the criminals, and have instead shifted our focus to retribution instead. What is the right answer? There is only one man that truly knows.

Left by JustUs on June 14th, 2005 at 7:14 am

Thanks for chiming in JustUs…though I disagree with you on nearly every point you make, you at least make an attempt at reasoned and lucid arguments (unlike Andrea).

A couple of thoughts on your comments though:

1) What exactly is a “female associate of inmates”? Don’t you mean girlfriends and wifes (often via marriage by proxy) of inmates? The term female associate sounds like another word either for a conjugal hooker or a female defense lawyer.

2) You asked Joe if he believed the evidence was there for a solid conviction — You mean aside from Medellin’s confession? And the accounts and testimony of the other 5 gang members who took part in the rape and murder of young Jennifer and Elizabeth? Or do you mean the forensic evidence that directly tied Medellin to the crime scene?

Are you somehow confused as to Medellin’s actual guilt in this crime? Because not even Medellin has claimed he didn’t do it.

3) Rehabilitation is not now, nor has it ever been the primary goal of incarceration. Hell, it’s not even in the top 3 goals. The first goal of incarceration is to protect society from these thugs. The second goal is punishment. Both of these goals trump ‘rehabiliation’.

4) You are right about the one Supreme Judge, though. And I’m betting he’ll judge Medellin the same way that he was judged by his fellow man: Guilty, and condemend to a life of hell.

5) Out of curiosity, which inmate are you an ‘associate’ of? Or at least, enlighten us as to what his crimes were. Did you know your inmate before his crimes? Or did you become his ‘associate’ after he was incarcerated?

Left by Robbie on June 14th, 2005 at 9:40 am

Very cute Robbie. I don’t feel a need to validate myself to you. Let’s get that out right now. But I will entertain your thoughts for a moment.

1) How does Webster define “associate”? A companion; to keep company. Look it up if you don’t believe me. I am not married or dating an inmate. I am married to a very free man. As to your assessment, if you feel the need to label me, I would most correctly fit the profile of female defense lawyer; as I have been doing research for his case.

2) Believe what you read if you wish, Jose’s version and the Houston Police Department’s version of a “voluntary confession” vary greatly in detail. You figure it out. What forensic evidence are you referring to that you think tied him to the crime scene? Since you know so much I mean.

3)Moving on, I am a criminal justice student. I believe it would be safe to say that you are not. The goals I listed are stated in the history of the American Justice System. You can look that up too.

4) This is your opinion and it’s respectful. However don’t knock others who seek to see colors other than black and white. It’s not becoming. Quite frankly, it’s ironically judgemental of you.

5) Had you read my post instead of skimming it, you would have noticed that I wrote “I know Jose personally.” And don’t make me have to get Webster on you for the definition of personally. But since you’ll be consulting him anyway, why don’t you go ahead and look up “platonic” while you’re at it. Just in case you get curious again.

It’s been a pleasure Robbie.

Left by JustUs on June 16th, 2005 at 8:45 am

Can someone please tell me what exactly Jose Medellin confessed to? I have not been able to find anywhere on the internet what he confessed to doing and what kind of DNA linked him to the crime? I have taken a strong interest in this case and it would be very helpful to know. If anyone can help, it would be greatly appreciated.

Left by Candace on June 20th, 2005 at 10:12 am

Mr. Medellin’s appeals are all based on not knowing that he had a right to contact his consulate (he wasn’t denied access to his consulate, he just didn’t know that he could contact them).

None of his appeals are based on his actual innocense. Why? Because he’s guilty. He’s not disputing that part of his trial. He claims that it was just an “adolecent mistake”.

Ok, let the murderer have his retrial. And when he’s found guilty again (because, even his consulate can’t pretend that he didn’t actually commit the crimes he committed), don’t even take him back to his cell — march him straight from the courtroom to the death chamber.

Left by Robbie on June 20th, 2005 at 11:14 am

Robbie, are you replying to me?

Left by Candace on June 20th, 2005 at 11:36 am

Yes, Candace, I was.

But I also found some more of the info you were looking for (I hope you’re not a “criminal justice” student like Justus…because it only took me about 3 minutes to find this information).

You asked what Jose confessed to? Well, here it is:

If you’ll look in Argument, Part I of United States Supreme Court No. 04-5928, Medellin v. Dretke, you’ll find the following statement:

“In the present case, Medellín gave his confession within a few hours of arrest”

The evidence against Medellín included his written statement after arrest, in which he admitted substantial participation in the crimes, see id., at 6a; J. A. 14-18, including his personal participation in strangling Elizabeth. J. A. 17. This statement was made between 5:54 a.m. and 7:23 a.m. on the day of his arrest, June 29, 1993.

And what did Medellin confess?

…[that] he sexually assaulted one of the girls and bragged about having ‘opened’ her since she apparently had been a virgin. As if to accentuate his conquest, appellant [Medellín] showed Christina [his sister-in-law] his blood soaked underwear. Appellant related that after another gang member sexually assaulted the second girl, he ‘turned her around’ and anally raped her.”

Left by Robbie on June 20th, 2005 at 11:49 am

Well Robbie, I am a C.J. major and I wanted to know. I have done a whole lot of research on this and did not find that. I do appreciate your help, if that’s what it is. You seem to be bothered by your effort to help. What brings you to this site? Why are you so interested in the case?

Left by Candace on June 20th, 2005 at 1:01 pm

Candace, my apologies if I seem bothered by the effort. I actually enjoy helping (researching and reporting) in this way…which is why I run this site (if you didn’t know, this is my blog).

And unlike a typical Democrat non-apology apology (where I tell you I’m sorry you were offended, but not sorry for my actual comments), I apologize for being harsh in my initial response to you.

I take issue with those who try to defend criminals such as Meddellin in any way. I assumed (without knowing) that your interest in this case equated to support of Meddellin (which it may, but it was not fair to assume that simply based on what you had posted).

As to why I’m interested in this case? I’m a huge proponet of the death penalty, and I use this blog in part to remind people of why we execute the people that we do…to remind them of the inhuman acts that they commited upon our children.

Left by Robbie on June 20th, 2005 at 2:22 pm

Do you believe that in any way a person can change for the better? Again, just a question…. Were you linked to either one of the victims or their family in any way?

Left by Candace on June 20th, 2005 at 2:53 pm

I’m not in any way related to anybody involved in this story.

And yes, I do believe that people can and do change. It’s a natural state of the human condition. And very often those changes can be for good.

But that does not excuse nor diminish evils from the past.

Nor do I believe that you can change that part of you that is capable of what Meddellin did to those two little girls into something ‘good’.

The part of a person that is capable of torturing another human and then killing them is hardwired. You don’t suddenly go to someone who crosses that line to someone who won’t.

Left by Robbie on June 20th, 2005 at 3:00 pm

Thank you very much for your opinion and for your time. I don’t want to put you out with my opinion but I have been writing to Jose for a little while now and although that doesn’t mean I know him any better than the next guy, I feel like I do. This could be a risky chance that I am taking but he is 30 years old now…. People make mistakes and I wasn’t there that night to witness what happened but he swears on everything he has that he was not the one who raped and murdered Jennifer and Elizabeth. He seems like one of the most down to earth and open-minded people I have come across in a very long time. He is capable of unconditional love and he knows and understands completely what this has caused. He has a daughter of his own. I also have a daughter and I can’t imagine losing her to something as horrible as the crime that HE is charged with. I took a chance and picked a death row inmate to write for an assignment and I met him. I was a firm believer in the death penalty. I belived in an equal punishment such as if you shoot someone, then you should be shot to death. I have since reconsidered my opinion. These people are real and SOME (not all) have been falsely convicted. Just take a look at all of the MAJOR screw-ups out very own HPD crime lab is responsible for. I am not angry with you for your opinion so please respect mine. Just out of curiosity….how old are you? This is not meant as an insult….I’m wondering if where we stand age-wise could be the big difference here.

Left by Candace on June 20th, 2005 at 3:17 pm

I respect your opinions as well, Candace. We each arrive at what we believe in very different ways.

I’m 36, but I’ve never considered how my age contributes to my pro-death penalty stance. I’ve been pro-death penalty for as long as I can remember (and growing up in Conroe, TX…which is only 30 miles from Death Row in Huntsville, I was familiar with it at a very early age).

I’m just curious…if Medellin claims to be innocent of the charges, then how does he reconcile that with his confession where he stated unequivocally that he raped both girls, and used his shoelace to strangle one of them to death?

Does he claim that it was a forced confession? Or does he claim that he never said those things and the cops “made it up” (although, the tape of him saying those things must be pretty damning, I suspect).

If either of those were the case, then why aren’t they the basis of his appeal?

As far as “people make mistakes”…raping and then beating, kicking, and strangling to death two little girls is not a mistake. Let’s be clear about that. Cheating on a test at school is a mistake. Cheating on your wife is a bigger mistake. Going to Texas A&M instead of a real college is an unforgivable mistake.

Make no mistake about it…what Jose did to those little girls was no mistake…it was inhuman.

And he deserves to die for it. No matter how much better a man he might be now (he only had “up” to go, anyway…he couldn’t have become any less of a man), no matter how charmed you are by him…now matter how many years have passed since the Ertman and Pena families buried their little girls…he still deserves to die.

And hopefully, soon, he will.

Left by Robbie on June 20th, 2005 at 3:40 pm

Again, I respect your opinion. The thing is….the video (to my knowledge) was never used b/c it was “lost”. Now, as Jose stated to me. How do you lose a video where you have an honest to God confession? HOW? There are other things that went on as well and I do know for a fact what police will go through to get that confession. You know as well as I do that they will lie and sometimes beat it out of a person. Have you ever held a conversation with a death row inmate? I hadn’t until Jose. Are you involved in the cj system? Meaning-do you have a career in this field? Again-I’m not second guessing your knowledge. Mine is minimal. After this year I will only have my Associates. I am 23 years old so we are not THAT far apart in age. I wasn’t being prejudice towards you for your age, it’s just that the older people I have come across seem to be the “sticklers” for not giving anyone a chance. No offense! Have you lost a family member to a volent act such as this? I want to know what made you so interested in this case.

Left by Candace on June 20th, 2005 at 3:51 pm

Sorry for the typo’s

Left by Candace on June 20th, 2005 at 3:53 pm

The difference between you and I in this matter is that I believe that the overwhelming majority of police officers and detectives are good, honest, decent people. And I believe that 99% of all people in death row are vile scum whom deserve to be there.

Because of this, I am ALWAYS more inclined to believe the testimony of officers than I am the “I’m innocent” lies of a murdering gang member.

You have decided to put your faith in this guy—who is more obviously guilty than probably anybody else on death row—and believe him over the word of honest, non-murderering/raping police officers. I don’t understand how someone becomes that cynical. His own family testified against him. But you, a total stranger, believe him.

It saddens and worries me that an otherwise seemingly intelligent young woman such as yourself is so easily duped and charmed by a lying death row child-raping murderer…and that you will soon be part of the criminal justice system. I see “defense lawyer” in your future.

So, I’m curious…are you alleging that a confession was beaten out of Jose? Because it sure sounds that way to me. Do you have evidence? Or are you just that comfortable slandering good honest cops? You claim to have ‘first-hand’ knowledge of cops using illegal methods to obtain confessions—OK. How? You’re a second year CJ student. I’m sure you’ve been allowed into exactly ZERO interrogation rooms during an interrogation.

What you do have is your own belief in a corrupt criminal justice system. So you just feel comfortable spouting off anti-police rhetoric without a shred of evidence to back it up.

If Jose’s confession was in any way coerced or not true, that would be the basis of his appeals. Especially if a taped confession was lost. Instead, his only appeal was that he was too stupid to ask to speak to his consulate.

I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt, Candace. But your continued defense of this child-raping murderer makes me sick to my stomach. I don’t understand it, nor do I respect it.

If you think he’s innocent, I think you’re an idiot.

Left by Robbie on June 23rd, 2005 at 11:56 am

Robbie, I do not know why, but I have not been able to reply to you until now. Something was wrong with my computer. Now to comment on your ever so pig-headed remark about me being an idiot. What kind of education do YOU have in criminal justice? Have you SEEN any of the confessions or did YOU take part in the investiagtion? I THINK NOT! I do belive that there are guilty people on death row and I do think that some crimes constsitute a punishment of death, but YOU are sadly mistaken not to have all of the facts and to be so judgemental? Who are YOU to judge? Have you ever spoke with Jose or any of the investiagtors in the case? Probably not. I’ll bet you have even less facts than I have on the case and you’re putting your faith into what could be scum as well. Who’s to say who is right? But you know what, you’re going to continue to live a sad, pathetic life based on YOUR OWN ignorance and I promise you, it will get you nowhere. Take it from me. Only God can judge, so until that day comes, maybe you should do something a little more suitable with your time than this. Frankly, you’re not so good at it! And by the way: judgemental people make me sick to my stomach, too.

Left by Candace on June 29th, 2005 at 3:28 pm

The night of Jose’s execution (and don’t kid yourself, that day is coming soon), I will make the short drive to Huntsville from Austin, and I will stand vigile and bear witness in support of the families and victims of Jose’s crimes.

Left by Robbie on June 29th, 2005 at 3:57 pm

Better yet, why don’t you leave your phone number so he can give you a call personally when he is released!!

Left by Candace on June 29th, 2005 at 4:03 pm

And I just love your rebuttal to my questions….what happened Robbie, did you get tongue tied? Can’t think of ANYTHING? I figured that! It’s been nice chatting with you!

Left by Candace on June 29th, 2005 at 4:48 pm

If I had my way I would take Villareal, Cantu, O’Brien, and the rest of them and punish them fittingly for what they did. They raped anally, vaginally, and orally, moreover they strangled the girls with belts on both sides held after which they stomped on the girls necks. So therefore, first I’d castrate them, run hot pokers up their rectums, and sear their mouth before I cut their heads off with a very sharp ax. They had no regard for human life so why should we for theirs. Their deaths unfortunately are painless because they’ll die in the gas chamber. They should instead be electrocuted.

Left by Davod on June 30th, 2005 at 3:25 am

That is a very intelligent reply, Davod! You should be classified in the same category as a murderer b/c with the feelings that you just stated, you are no different. You seem to be a very closed-minded individual filled with hate and that will get you nowhere. And just so that you know: Perez and Villareal will never die in the “gas chamber” or lethal injection b/c they were MINORS and if you forgot to read up on out current law; minors cannot be executed. Where did you get your facts from b/c I would sure like to know.

Left by Candace on June 30th, 2005 at 9:04 am

You’re right, Candace…here in Texas they won’t get the death they deserve by lethal injection. But now that they are off of death row and their solitary cells, and back in General Population, Davod is not too far off about them being raped the way they raped those poor little girls.

Let’s not forget how other prisoners treat child-rapers in prison.

And Candace, I’ll put up my BS in Professional Writing and MS in Technical Communications + 3 years US Army active duty up against your 2nd year associates degree in CJ as far as educational resumes go.

As to what do I know about the facts? I’d be willing to bet that I do have more facts on the case than you do. Have you read the entire MEDELLIN v. DRETKE (39 pages) brief to the United States Supreme Court?

Also, via a simple Freedom of Information Act request and a short drive to the Department of Records here in Austin, I was able to obtain and read the entire STATE v. MEDELLIN, No. 675430, Judgment from the 339th. District Court from Oct 11, 1994. Have you read that one?

Or, from the same Freedom of Information Act request, I obtained and read MEDELLIN v. COCKRELL, No. H-01-4078 (S.D. Tex June 26, 2003), where it was determined that (and I quote from the document):

Medellín was informed of his right to legal representation before he confessed to involvement in the murders. Medellín waived his right to advisement by an attorney. Medellín does not challenge the voluntary nature of his confession.

Now, the only other information that you might be privy to are personal correspondence and meetings with Medellin himself. Who of course claims he’s innocent. And you believe him. Which makes you an idiot.

Because, obviously, a man who rapes and murders little children is probably also capable of lying.

So, again, I ask you to refute the evidence against Medellin and provide actual (and factual) evidence that proves Jose’s innocence (and NO, Jose’s “word” that he didn’t do it doesn’t count).

Yeah, that’s what I thought.

Good luck on the criminal justice career, though. Looks like you’re off to a great start. After Jose’s dead, maybe you can befriend and take up the cause of Dennis Rader (the BTK killer from Kansas City).

Left by Robbie on June 30th, 2005 at 10:18 am

I sit at my boring job and wonder why smart/educated people with degrees, such as yourself, do stuff like this all day. Don’t you have a real job.

About BTK, good idea. I’ll let you know what I find out…..

Left by Candace on July 1st, 2005 at 10:16 am

You hide behind this little screen name all day, “Robbie”, if that’s who you really are, and I’m not the one to believe your lies or follow the leader as someone as pathetic as yourself. I see “crooked cop” in your future. Maybe you should try since you’re so smart and have such a wonderful education. What school did you graduate from? Just for shits and grins!!

Left by Candace on July 2nd, 2005 at 7:03 pm

And yet you’re content to believe the lies and follow the lead of a convicted serial murderer and child moleting rapist? That speaks volumes.

And, Baylor University, University of Houston, and Texas Tech University.

Thanks for asking.

Left by Robbie on July 2nd, 2005 at 9:49 pm

Well Howdy Robbie,

I sure enjoyed this little tit for tat you and Candace have gotten yourselves tangled in. I personally didn’t see the point in getting into it with you like this. I thought this blog was for intellectual debates- I give my opinion, you state yours, and just maybe we could meet somewhere in the middle with a mutual agreement to disagree. However, I picked up on the snide remarks you threw my way and I simply refuse to throw stones back. It’s childish. So I bowed out gracefully.

When I said “look it up” I was referring to the history of the American Justice System dodo, because you challenged what I said in regards to goals of incarceration. I wasn’t referring to his case. Anyone can go to yahoo and type in “Medellin” which is obviously what you did. Without the video tape or someone to corroborate his version, I admit that he’s facing an uphill battle.

Candace, you say you know Jose, yet the first post you made was asking for help in finding out what he confessed to. Am I the only one that sees something wrong with this picture? If you really know Jose you would know how he feels about people putting his business out on the internet (you talk about him having a daughter and of his proclamation of innocence). Anything and everything can and will be used against him if he gets a new trial. Very poor judgement cookie. If you knew Jose for real, you would know that he’d curse you out for the things you have posted and cut you out of his life. So please stop. Just as easily as you found this and other sites, so can the DA.

Back to you Robbie… My education surpasses Candace’s but you can’t fault her for attempting to apply her learning. Stop being so harsh. She did say one thing I was thinking though- you are preaching to the choir. Why don’t you ask Jose for yourself all the questions you throw out on this blog? I’d be glad to give you his address. As to your education, communications and writing might qualify you for blogging but you’re no better than the next wanna-be Sherlock Holmes, so don’t kid yourself. And you really want to use the 3 years in the Army as leverage? Dude, on that note I’ve got you beat HANDS DOWN. Even if you entered as a butter bar you were no smarter than a private- 3 years hardly makes you the next Krescan (sp?)

I am respecting my friend’s wishes by ceasing this conversation with you. However, I have loads of opinions on the Scott Peterson case that I’m sure will piss you off if you’re ever in the mood. It’s not your fault you grew up in the #1 execution state in the nation. I truly wouldn’t expect you to feel any different than you do. I have family that works in the prison system there and both my parents make a living off of putting people in jail. Candace may not know any personal stories of corrupt cops, but I sure do! But I choose to challenge the norm; you know, form my own opinion. By the way, Baylor is a great school. I’ll be transferring there soon. How does it make you feel knowing that I will share your Alma Mata (don’t bother responding- I’m sure you have nothing nice to say anyway).

Left by JustUs on July 6th, 2005 at 8:58 am

Justus,
I knew you would reply sometime soon. I have heard so much about you if your real name is something like “K”. Yeah, Jose really is my freind and he has also seen what you wrote on this blog b/c I sent it to him. He was very thankful for both of our comments. Maybe if you hadn’t fallen off from writing him, you would know that. He did not cuss me out for anything. And about the confession: Jose cannot tell me what he confessed to as it could be used against him for even talking about it. I have a lot more info than you think I do but why do I need to argue with you as to whether I am a friend of his or not. Candace IS my real name and if you care to ask, he’ll tell you what you need to know. As I understand it though, you’re the one who cannot write to him anymore. Am I right or am I right? You know, you say that I cannot give as much info as you or may not have the knowledge that you do but I have NOT been in school as long and I will get there soon. You are no different than me and aren’t we (Jose’s freinds) all supposed to be on the same side? Maybe I’m wrong…

Left by Candace on July 14th, 2005 at 9:40 am

And as I read your comment again, it angers me how you can regard yourself so highly “your education surpasses mine”, like I am some kind of idiot. It also angers me that you would lash out so quickly without speaking to Jose first about me. “If I really knew him”….Maybe YOU really don’t know him all that well if you truly belive that he would cuss me out and cut me out of his life. OUCH! And as far as education goes: please don’t forget that you started somewhere too, so you shouldn’t try to make the “beginners” feel any less important than you are. It’s not nice. Now, I will respect my FRIEND’S wishes as well and not continue with these ridiculous arguments. Later days, Justus!

Left by Candace on July 14th, 2005 at 2:38 pm

Wow. A catfight between two “criminal justice” students over a death row inmate who raped and strangled to death two teenage girls…

Now, now, ladies. There’s no need to fight.

If you’ll wait a few more months and he’s thrown on death row, one of you can claim Joseph Duncan as your new Death Row boyfriend…

Left by Robbie on July 14th, 2005 at 3:08 pm

No Robbie,
It’s just that I don’t appreciate judgemental people like you calling me an “idiot” and her claiming that Jose and I are not friends. How the hell does everyone know so much? Just curious. Maybe you should start in on Mr. Duncan. I’m sure you’ve got plenty of opinions and most importantly, stone cold FACTS!!! Right?

Left by Candace on July 14th, 2005 at 3:54 pm

I’ve already written plenty about Mr. Duncan. And some of it did involve some investigative work and writing.

But I have another question for you: when your death row inmate boyfriends are gassed/injected/hung/electrocuted (depending on the state)—what’s the appropriate amount of grieving time before you get back on DeathRowPenPals.com and find another one? Or do you just hedge your bets and keep several at a time?

Left by Robbie on July 14th, 2005 at 4:13 pm

Actually, the funny thing is that you know about that site. I’ve never heard of it! Very cute, Robbie! I found out about Jose during an in-class research assignment to find out what the conditions are like on death row. I never went into the whole thing looking for a friend. I thought exactly the way you do. You can belive that or not. I have a lot of information that you don’t and probably won’t see or hear about for a long while, but let’s just put it this way: I have enough information to belive in his innocence. You criticize me and say that everything I know is bullshit, but where the hell did you come up with his own family members testifying against him? Bet you thought I forgot, huh? Nobody in his family testified. Peter Cantu’s brother and brother’s wife testified. We kind of have it figured out though…you’re just fishing for info. from me b/c I am a lot closer to the truth than you are (and you know it). I’m not going to be the person to give it to you. That there was just basic stuff that someone as smart as yourself should have found that in what…let’s say….3 minutes!!

Left by Candace on July 14th, 2005 at 4:26 pm

Hi Candace,

I’m not “K” and I’ve never had a falling out with Jose. He’s had several pals in the past that you are probably confusing me with. I wasn’t throwing stones at you either, so don’t misconstrue my comment. Jose doesn’t have to tell you what he confessed to; that’s public knowledge as Robbie so gleefully pointed out. What Jose can’t tell you is what’s NOT in the court papers– the things that Robbie or no other blogger knows.

I am not attacking you. Robbie is the one that called you an idiot; not me. On the contrary I stuck up for you (”don’t fault her…”). Read again. Saying my education surpassing yours is simply stating a fact. Robbie needed to stop being so harsh, but now you need to stop reading into things and being so sensitive.

This is not a “cat fight” Robbie. I wouldn’t give you the satisfaction. I already said I wasn’t going to stoup to your level, so what makes you think I would bite the bait from anyone else? And once again, I am married. I wasn’t looking for a boyfriend and being able to relate, I will go out on a limb to say Candace wasn’t either. You once asked her how did she become so cynical to the “system” that she would believe a condemned man is innocent. Well, when did YOU become so cynical of others to believe that the system is not fallacious in itself? I’ve been surrounded by law enforcement my entire life. You haven’t. I haven’t lost faith in the “system” but at the same time I know enough not to put all my eggs in one basket, so to speak, either. And you are so quick to jump on the hand’em high bandwagon, yet you don’t bother to highlight all the wrongfully condemned. You are a self proclaimed fact finder. So go find the facts of THIS crime. Who is to be charged for the manslaughter of an inmate that is later exonerated through DNA testing, etc? Or will you simply find some other petty justification of why this person didn’t lead a holy life anyway and they probably never got caught for something just as worthy of this punishment? These are just some questions I have for you.
One person wrongfully condemned among a million is still one too many (and there have been more than a few to warrant a moratorium). Preston pointed this out to you months ago and you were quick to cease ingaging him. Why was that?

Candace, if you feel inclined to contact me, do so through Jose. Not this or any other forum. Don’t let this or any other idiot suck you into their narrow minded vices.

It’s been a thrill as always Robbie.

Left by JustUs on July 21st, 2005 at 2:46 am

Justus-
I appreciate you clearing things up. You did strike me as trying to come across very rude but I understand what you are saying. I don’t feel right trying to contact you through Jose but I will give him my e-mail to give to you and you can also feel free to contact me anytime.

Robbie-
It’s been a lot of fun getting to know you better although I feel like this world would do just fine w/o judgemental people such as yourself. Hey, good luck with your research on Joseph Duncan. Maybe you can share your insight with other people that visit your blog. However, it seems as though we have been the only ones communicating for some time. I guess everyone else got bored quicker than I did. Nonetheless, I’m bored. Nice knowing ya!

Left by Candace on July 21st, 2005 at 8:59 am

Hi my name is Sam, and i am 19 years old from the Uk. Im not here for a big debate! recently Jose, has written me letters. He told me to research him and this is what i found. I think what Jose did is unforgivible….but lets not forget, it was not just him. I also believe that a life sentance is justifiable. Basically, im against the death penalty…maybe he deserves to die. But, we as humans should not have that disision. Thats up to God…let him deal with it… Im sure there are innocent people on deathrow…and that sickens me.

Left by Samantha on January 16th, 2006 at 3:38 pm

…maybe he deserves to die. But, we as humans should not have that disision [sic]

So, Jose got to decide if Jennifer and Elizabeth got to die or live that day. Does that make him God? No, of course it doesn’t. Obviously man is completely capable of “deciding” who gets to live and die. It’s called judgement — and it’s what judges (thus the name) and juries do.

And the death penalty is well defended by biblical verse. If you’re that intent and interested in pen pals, the UK has numerous soldiers in Iraq who would love letters from home via a pen pal. Those guys deserve a devoted and earnest pen pal. Guys like Jose who rape, beat, kill children do not.

…recently Jose, has written me letters

Sam, you make it sound like Jose just picked your name at random from the UK phone directory and started writing you. Obviously you initiated contact with this monster, or he wouldn’t have known where to write you. For your own safety, I hope you used a P.O. Box and not your own actual home address.

Left by Robbie on January 16th, 2006 at 5:30 pm

Im writing from Sweden,and Im also writing to Jose - yes I was the one who initiated contact with him, a few years ago.
I know what Jose told me and I know what I have been reading about the killing and rape…I dont think he is innocent,but does any one of you really know who did what ?
Yes I am from sweden and we dont have death penalty here,and a lifetime in jail is about 12-15 years. You might say its no punich at all but look have we has it here and look how you have it in Usa…
Here its not much murder at all…
By the way if a person was at the same place but didnt comit the crime why should he be jugde like if he was guilty ?
You have a verry strange country over there.
I did some research about death penalty and and read that the states who has it have more murder… What does that tell you?
- Nothing ?
I dont mean they should get free if they have been tested with dna and is guilty because I also think its wrong.
Im sorry my english isnt the best but I hope you can understand.

Left by Lotta on January 24th, 2006 at 4:41 pm

Well hello again Robbie. Don’t have much to say to you this time but I haven’t visited your blog in a while so I thought I would check it out. My message is for Sam this time (but I’m sure you’ll have something to say about it). Sam, you say that you write to Jose but you feel like he is guilty and that “maybe he does deserve to die.” Do you correspond with him on a regular basis or was this like a one time thing? He is my friend and if I did not believe in his innocence, I would not write him. I’m sure he would be very hurt for someone who takes the time to write him and someone who he takes the time to write back would say such a thing. Don’t you think? I’m just curious……Robbie, talk to you soon!

Left by Candace on February 6th, 2006 at 9:42 am

I was intrigued as to why anyone would wish to befriend Mr Medellin — perhaps justus or candace could explain. I logged on to his website and read his penpal introduction. He likes reading, drawing — he says he has grown and is not the same person as when he made an “adolescent choice” — he is not willing to discuss the murder unless you write to him personnally - WHY- as candace and justus think he is innocent after doing so — Mr Medellin will never find the growth he says he seeks until he takes responsibility for what he did — until he owns it.

I did not hear any of his penpals mention Jenny Ertman or Elizabeth Pena — Mr Medellin could only be innocent if he was not at the murder scene — he was there and he wanted those girls dead. I do not seek his death - I want him to say he is sorry - why cant he do it - I do not beleive Mr Medellin is true to himself or any other unless he takes responsibility for his choice.

Has Mr Medellin ever cried himself to sleep thinking about what he did to Jenny Ertman and Elizabeth Pena — you will find the answer is no. Mr Medellin has created a new self, thanks partly to his penpals — he beleives he is not the same person — his protest of innocence reveals his highest thought is to save his life — not to release his soul — that would be true enlightenment.

Left by bob on March 14th, 2006 at 9:08 pm

Bob,
Jose never said on his website that he would discuss his case if you write to him personally. He has never discussed the case with me (not anymore than what you can read about on the internet, anyway). How can you judge a human being like you are judging him without ever giving him a chance? If you ever took the time to write to him, I am confident that you would feel the same as I do. Have you ever been in the wrong place at the wrong time? What if that was the case with Jose? I think we all have. I know I have and if I was held accountable for EVERYTHING that everyone else around me did, I would not have made it as far as I have in my life. Before you start ranting and raving about how you want to hear an apology from him, you should seek to know who he is first and then, if you still feel in your heart of hearts that he owes YOU or anyone else on this blog an apology, write me back….Thanks Bob!!

Left by Candace on March 16th, 2006 at 10:41 am

Candace, thanks for your reply, but you didnt answer why you chose to befriend him.- I didnt think i was ranting and raving - Mr Medellin owes somebody an apology and it isnt me. I think we have all done things we regret - if it hurts other people,we should try to put it right.Idont judge your friend for what hes done but what he hasnt done, he cant change what happened but he can change the end.

The worst thing for me is that because of the manner of their dying Jennifer Ertman and Elizabeth Pena are murder victims - who they were in life is lost aand forgotten - these girls lived - they laughed and cried - loved and were loved -and now they are just a painful memory.

I read recently that the parents of Jenny Ertman had moved house “We had a shrine to Jenny in the old house,but now we have just 2 photos”.HER OWN MOTHER THINKS OF HER DAUGHTER AS A PAINFUL MEMORY - your friend did that. I am considering writing to your friend,I know the murder wasnt personal - he didnt know them - the problem for me is that he still doesnt know them - Mr Medellin likes to work out - I would ask him if he could imagine being in thje gym on a running machine with Jenny aand Elizabeth running either side of him,and just passing the time of day - what do you think your friend would answer - why don’t you ask him.

I know the answer Candace - i know your friend - Jennifer Ertman and Elizabeth Pena didnt exist the night he murdered them and they dont exist now - Mr Medellin has moved on - he is a free spirit - How can that be Candace - how can he move on and dismiss the misery aand devastated lives he created. A free spirit is someone who understands the purpose of life is to create - to live by the highest thought of who you are - Mr Medellin can change his legacy - he can create a new end - to do that he must acknowledge what he did and the people he hurt - it would be harder tthan his fight to live,but only if he is truly changed - truly a free spirit and not the young man,in a park on a dark summers night who wanted those two girls dead.

Left by bob on March 17th, 2006 at 10:45 pm

I like your style, Bob. It’s such a nice change to write someone that doesn’t want to come across hurtful and offensive such as our friend Robbie. I respect the fact that you have your own opinion and I have mine. The way in which I became friends with Jose was unplanned and unintentional. I wrote to Jose for an assignment in one of my criminal justice classes. We were asked to find some interesting facts about what it is like to live on death row. I figured there would be no better way than to write to somone who did indeed live on death row. I chose Jose. Writing to him has been one of the greatest risks that I have taken. When I say great, I mean hat it was a serious risk and it turned out to be a great thing for me. Jose has taught me a lot and for that, I will be forever grateful. Jose will be my friend for life. I cannot explain to you why I feel this way. I am not a stupid person. In fact, I think of myself as a very intelligent person who is ambitious and knows what I want out of life. I work full time, go to school full time and raise my 4-year-old daughter. I share this with you simply to give you a better picture of who I am. I am not a gang banger as Jose used to be. I am not a druggie or a person who even associates herself with these types of people. I am real, and I belive in Jose’s innocence with everything I am and everything I have and I would do anything to help my friend. I cannot stop you from believing the things you do, nor will I try to change your mind. All I can suggest to you is to go ahead and write to him. You can even tell him that we have had some discussions about him on the net and that’s why you felt like writing. I believe that Jose is a kind person who got mixed up in the wrong place at the wrong time. You let me know how you feel after you talk to him.

Regards,
Candace

Left by Candace on March 20th, 2006 at 5:01 pm

Candace, thanks for your thoughtful reply. Its funny but my hesitation in writing to Mr Medellin is partly the risk that i may get to like him and how difficult that could make things for me - to reconcile what he did and the person he is.You have helped me overcome this as you are right - I first wrote you cos i was angry and wanted to have my say - but this is not about what you or i think about your friend. I dont belive Mr Medellin is innocent - but i dont want him to die - i think that would only add to the tragedy. Mr Medellins innocence is not the issue for me. I want him to say he is sorry to the families - I want him to understand that it may seem pointless and ridiculous, but i truly beleive that it would make a difference - the real issue for me is that these parents feel that he murdered their children and he still doesnt care- that degrades their memory -I want him to tell them that he does care, I also need to know that he does care - and that will be what i shall say - thje thing that troubles me the most is the thought that these girls died for nothing - it may take me some time to write your friend as i worry i may scare him off - but basically i think i just need to be straight with him and hope - i feel obliged to keep you informed - and i will - Thanks again Bob.

Left by bob on March 20th, 2006 at 10:41 pm

Bob,
I truly believe you will change your mind about him. I never thought I would EVER stand behind a convicted murderer, but I do. I understand your concern for Jennifer and Elizabeth’s families. I do not ever forget about them and as a mother, I cannot imagine going through life without my daughter. So for me to say that I put my faith in him, you must understand that in my mind, I feel very strongly about the things I’m telling you. I hope you do decide to write and keep me posted, I’ll be looking for your reply in the near future.

Left by Candace on March 21st, 2006 at 10:44 am

Candace, I am an idiot.I only realised tonight coming home from work that - I AM JUDGEMENTAL - i will only write your friend if i get something in return - you would be his friend if you knew he was guilty - a week ago i would have condemned you for this - now i feel you have a strength that the rest of us do not.I am not religious but i do beleive in God - i beleive there is one difference between man and God,and that is a very simple thing - GOD DOES NOT JUDGE - I need to rethink all of this - I am sorry for judging you - i beleive i have learned something special from talking to you, aand now i need to work out how to put that to some use - i feel different about speaking to your friend - Yours gratefully Bob.

Left by bob on March 21st, 2006 at 7:51 pm

I knew Joe Medellin growing up for a short time. he was heartless then and im sure he is heartless now. he never cared what people thought.
we played basketball at a elementry school in houston, he and his friends ( black and white gang) would come by and cae trouble.
i am now all grown up and saved / church go’er , i know GOD forgives BUT these BOY’s gave no mercy and should receive no mercy.

Left by chris on March 22nd, 2006 at 11:49 am

Chris, Iam against the death penalty - always have been,even for Mr Medellin. If he is executed then this tragedy ends with his death - if i thought that would help the families i may feel differently, i dont beleive it will - i am left with the unnacceptable thought that these girls died for nothing. You may be right about him - if you are then he wont be interested in any part of redeeming the memory of Jennifer and Elizabeth - if there is any chance of him telling the families that he is sorry - that he regrets what he did - that he suffers because of it - i think it is worth asking him - im sure his apology would be rejected,but i do beleive it would lessen their pain to know he knows what he did. I am maybe a naive fool about all of this but i feel compelled to do something other than want him dead - i wont accept nothing positive can come from this tragedy - i am no expert in this field - i am not a missionary or any kind of saint - i never knew Jennifer or Elizabeth but if they had to choose his death or his salvation - what if they did not choose his death. Bob.

Left by bob on March 22nd, 2006 at 8:45 pm

Bob,
All I can say is WOW!! I appreciate your kind words once again. It’s so nice to hear that someone visiting this blog has a 1/2 of a brain. As far as Chris goes….GROW UP!! Whatever it was that you guys did in elementary is way in the past. You cannot judge someone that you didn’t even know near the time of the incident. You know what….nevermind….it’s senseless and mindless talking to people like you. Bob, I’m glad that you at least took enough time to realize that this is the life of a truly beautiful person. You may not agree with that aspect of it but you are at least looking at him as a person and that’s a great start. I can only hope that you will continue to give this some thought and one day be one of the few on my side. It’s very late and I don’t have much else to say at this time but I’ve been looking forward to your response and it is greatly appreciated. Sorry for any typo’s.

Left by Candace on March 27th, 2006 at 5:04 am

Candace, nice to know i have half a brain - i began my letter to Jose yesterday, i even used his first name, as now- that itself was difficult for me as it implies a familiarity that we do not share - but how can i attempt to see into this mans soul if i dare not use his name. This letter is the most difficult thing for me to do - i have to reveal myself to him, if i expect the same- and that has been more painful than you may think. No one can change the past - but we can create a different future - Jennifer Ertman and Elizabeth Pena are gone, did they die for nothing - it seems to me that to most people on this blog they did die for nothing - and all that is left is to execute these men - i wont accept they died for nothing - i dont know jose - but i do trust your faith in him and that gives me hope - on your reply to Chris - Candace, dont be so judgemental - you taught me that. Bob.

Left by bob on March 27th, 2006 at 7:55 pm

Bob, you and Candace are the two biggest idiots I have encountered in quite some time.

So, tell me, Bob — what did Elizabeth and Jennifer die for, if not for “nothing”? Are you trying to tell us that Elizabeth and Jennifer had to die brutal, torturous deaths at the hands of Jose and his thug friends so that Jose could “become a better person”? Or did they die so that you two idiots could have such a wonderful prison pen pal?

They did die for nothing. But Jose won’t have that problem. He’s going to die for killing those two girls. I hope it breaks both of your hearts to no end when he does get the lethal dose, too.

Left by Robbie on March 27th, 2006 at 11:30 pm

Robbie, Wondered when you would show up - I am not Jose’s penpal as well you know. If he is a better person then he could only get that way if he has suffered for what he did. Iwant him to be a better person - i want him to know what he did- i want him to acknowledge it, to accept it, to own it. Iwant the families to know that killing their girls matters to him. I am against the death penalty by instinct - i trust my instinct. Does he deserve to live - he thinks so- i want to know why he thinks he deserves to live. You said in an earlier reply that people can change unless they are wired like Jose - i agree with that - but what if we are wrong. I know it wont bring Jenny and Elizabeth back- if he is the same as that night in the park then they did die for nothing - his execution will change nothing - vengeance is short lived, shallow and self centred - this is not about you Robbie - its not about me - this is about two young girls and the man that murdered them - he owes them more than his death.Bob.

Left by bob on March 28th, 2006 at 8:01 pm

Bob,
Just out of curiosity, are you gonna mention me to Jose when you write? Pleasure to hear from you as always Robbie.

Left by Candace on March 30th, 2006 at 7:40 pm

Candace, apologies for late response - i was expecting an attack from Robbie. My letter (if i ever finish it) begins by explaining the sequence of events that led me to the point of deciding to write in the first place - so you are included. I can only write if i beleive my letter will serve some useful purpose - that sounds pretty arrogant i know, but i cannot reconcile what he did with who you beleive he is. I need to understand that transformation - if it is possible then Jose has an opportunity to use his experience for good - my letter is an attempt to find out if he is willing to do that - if Jose has changed from wanting those girls dead to a beautiful person, if his mind has changed - only he knows how that happened - he can use that to change other minds. My concern is that he hasnt done so already - why no apology, that would be the first thing i would have expected him to do. it should be the first thing he expects of himself. The reason this letter is taking so long is that this will only work if he trusts me and my motives - thats tough to do in a letter. It may not work at all - if so then i will be dissapointed - a little for me (we all have an ego) - but more for him - and most for Jennifer Ertman and Elizabeth Pena. best regards Bob.

Left by bob on April 2nd, 2006 at 9:09 pm

Candice, your an idiot, and Bob quit being a suck ass! That filth deseves to die! The real tragedy is that that our tax paying dollars are being spent to house his ass. Frankly, a bullet is much cheaper!
Who are we to judge!!! Do not bullshit . Everyone judges, im not saying its right, but its true! Candice judged Bob & Chris, Bob judged Candice, and Jose the Fuck Head judged and punished those innocent girls! So dont give us that bullshit line “Who are we to judge! Oh and Candice who cares about your “Im a single mom going through college” story…..NEXT!!!!! You obviously do not have a man in your life because you cling on to your inmate friend.
Oh by the way, I hope your paying for college because if your getting financial aide WHAT ANOTHER WAIST OF OUR TAX DOLLARS! Criminal justice….. and your befriending a convict…. thats bright.

Left by Chris on April 14th, 2006 at 5:09 pm

Chris, to disagree with Candace is fair enough - wouldnt be worth using this site if we all agreed - Candace is an easy target cos she is in the minority aand this is a particularly emotive subject. I respect her courage - I dont understand her faith in Jose, but i am willing to try to understand by talking to him. If Jose Medellin is redeemed, we can all learn from his transformation. You and others may have no interest in what appears impossible - i do - without Candace i wouldnt have considered such a possibility. but i am impressed by people with faith that is not born of fear - you and others can make nasty personal comments - you sense weakness,vulnerability and you attack without a care - you are right and therefore superior - i am proud to say i learned something important to me from Candace - one of those things is its ok to be vulnerable, unsure aand even appear weak cos you havent got all the answers - what have you learned Chris. Suck Ass Bob.

Left by bob on April 14th, 2006 at 9:41 pm

Bob,
Instead of trying to tap into the mind of a murderer, try yoga, meet people (that are not incarcerated), enjoy life! Do not waist your time on this issue. Only god knows if Jose is truly redeemed, therefore, we as humans shouldn’t bother with the impractical. You say you are interested in “what appears impossible”, so take a biology classes, research cures for diseases, do something that will benefit the greater good of man kind. Forget the muderer!!!! This site is for discussion only, do not allow it to consume you!! Focus on the beauty of life; do not get mixed up with the trash. More importantly DO NOT ALLOW YOURSELF TO BE DECEIVED BY DESPERATE PEOPLE!!! Grow a pair bro.

Chris

Left by Chris on April 17th, 2006 at 12:09 pm

Chris,
I really don’t know why I waste my time with people such as yourself, but just for “shits and grins” I’ll give it a shot. You sound to me like a very uneducated man yourself (or wait - since we’re throwing jabs - are you even a man……because you sound like an idiotic child with all of your foul language and foolish remarks). As for you and Bob, just because I believe in someone that most of society wouldn’t doesn’t make me an easy target or weak. In fact, it gives me something that somone such as yourself is lacking. I have taken the time to understand this person and the situation in its entirety (I can almost bet that you haven’t). You are just a lonely person with no life that feeds off of trying to cut others down. To have your own opinion is one thing, but to attack me the way you did shows that your mindless and very childish. The fact that I have a child, work full time and go to school full time only makes you jealous of me from what I see. You have no right to cut me down and critisize. Look at all of the defense lawyers out there…do you knock on them too b/c afterall, they do defend the “fuck heads” as you call them? Real intelligent, Chris. Tell you what, go back to school and learn some proper English and then we can talk. Having a conversation with someone such as yourself is a disgrace to me and all other like me. And just for the record…I do have a man and a great man at that. Believe it or not, he has never had any run-ins with the law. He is a law abiding citizen and a very successful man…..so as you say….NEXT! And I hope this one really pisses you off……I get financial aide so kiss my ass!!

Left by Candace on April 17th, 2006 at 1:19 pm

Candice,
Save the grammatical comments for your English Comp. teacher. Were not writing critiques or essays here!
My opinion of you is what it is so don’t get so worked up. Who cares what others think, right.
Why is it that you have to continue to add credibility to yourself? Do you need reassurance in your life mam??
By the way here are some disappointing facts for you… I too wk full time and attend college full time. Difference is I pay for it myself and I was smart enough to pursue my degree before becoming a parent. Jealous of you my dear…. I do not think so.
And do not ever compare yourself to a lawyer! you see their JOB is to associate with criminals, I doubt they do it for friendship or to have a pen pal.
You getting financial aide doesn’t upset me (even if it is a waste)….after all, it is for the needy.
Heres one for laughs….I guarantee the guy you are with is not your child’s father! is he?
Chris

Left by Chris on April 17th, 2006 at 4:08 pm

Exactly what I expected of you Chris; mindless senseless bullshit. You’re an idiot! Plain and simple, there it is. Sorry but you are what you are. Call me needy, call me dumb. As anyone can clearly see, you’re a lonely pathetic person and you thrive on cutting others down (as I said before). And grammatical comments……well honey, if you too go to school you need to go back to basic English, and I’m sorry that you feel intimindated by my comments. At least my financial aide is being put to good use. You, on the other hand, are most likely wasting your money. Find a new hobby and don’t bother writing back as your comments will be overlooked and not replied to. Glad we got to have this chat though. And to answer your question, no, I am NOT with my daughter’s father. Ever heard of DIVORCE dipshit? Normal, successful people do it EVERY DAY….and I’ll even bet people who would agree with yor dumbass on this Jose situation have gone through divorce as well. NEXT!!!

Left by Candace on April 19th, 2006 at 3:50 am

so kiss my ass!!

Kiss your own ass, candy. Medellin will be executed. There is nothing you or anyone else can do to stop it. Unfortunately, his death will be painless and quick — unlike how he murdered Jennifer Ertman and Elizabeth Pena.

Left by Anonymous on April 19th, 2006 at 11:24 am

Candice,
Before I end our silly exchanges, here are some final facts for you to ponder:
- guess what? I’m not a man!
-me lonely… the 2 karat diamond on my left hand begs to differ.
-I have plenty off hobbies but pissing you off was so worth the few minutes it took.
-Intimidated by you…..Hardly! The truth is I just wanted to fuck with your head… I like pissing off you pathetic women that live off of your “im a strong single mother and I need to keep reminding the world about it” bullshit.
Last but not least….
-retake english that would be stupid after all I’m a semester away from acquiring my BS in nursing…but here’s a thought… maybe I’ll continue my education so that I’ll be the one to stick the needle in Jose’s arm!
Truth is your still and always will be a fucking idiot for supporting that child raping murderer!
It was fun bitch.
-Chris

Left by Chris on April 19th, 2006 at 2:09 pm

Pre School,

Lower recidivism? Your joking right? You want us to allow him to marry, get a college degree and let him out.

medellin doesn’t need those things. He is going to be exterminated so that other little girls are safe. Forget the thug hugging crap. I would agree were he a thief or maybe an arsonist, but a rapist and murderer. Get real!

Left by Ben on April 21st, 2006 at 4:53 pm

Lotta

Perhaps the fact that he admits his guilt gets lost in translation from English to Swedish. OR, perhaps you are another dumb scandanavian groupie.

Left by Ben on April 21st, 2006 at 5:02 pm

Candace, Samantha, lotta,

Wow, jose Medellin is very lucky that so many women find the anal, oral and vaginal rape of 2 young girls followed by their strangulation and ’stomping’ to death, such a good reason to befriend a man. Its nice to see that whilst old war vets sit alone, cancer patients suffer without families, children die of HIV as orphans…. you 3 have got your panties all hot over this guy double killer. You must all be so proud of your selves.

Left by Ben on April 21st, 2006 at 5:05 pm

I like how justus and candace are battling it out as to who is the most “educated.” Now, that is pathetic! lol!

Left by jerry on April 21st, 2006 at 5:07 pm

i didn’t mock just us as I presumed she was a kid playing on her moms PC. Is she for real?

Left by Ben on April 21st, 2006 at 5:14 pm

All the murderer lovers are immature and bizarre. These two are especially funny in that they have such a high and undeserved opinion of their intellect.

Left by jerry on April 21st, 2006 at 5:17 pm

Did I read Candy’s comments correctly? She scrounges money from the state to fund her writing to a convicted killer. I get the impression she fills the other 2 hours a week doing a basic English course. Wow high brow baby. It may impress her child killing friend, but it is hardly going to cut the mustard with anyone not sat in a cell.

Left by Ben on April 21st, 2006 at 5:21 pm

I don’t remember. And frankly, I don’t want to reread her posts. They were painfully crazy the first time I read them. It appears what Chris was complaining about.

Left by jerry on April 21st, 2006 at 5:24 pm

Oh, one of the nuts, I don’t remember which one, thinks he’s getting out some day because he’s innocent. lol!

Left by jerry on April 21st, 2006 at 5:25 pm

So innocent that ven his pen pals requests state his guilt.

I would not be so bad if these clingons did not deny the truth. If they were to say, “Ok, he’s guilty as sin, I have an uneventful life, attaching myself to this man for a few years will liven it up a little” Yes, I would still see them as scum, but at least not as liars AND scum.

Left by Ben on April 21st, 2006 at 5:28 pm

That’s like the other nuts who were going on and on about some murderer being innocent because he was never there and had an alibi.
His entire defense, however, was that he burglarized the guys house, they fought over a gun, and he accidentally shot him (also a lie).

As far as having an uneventful life — tough. No excuse for imagining you are some legal eagle who’s going to spring some sadistic murderer from deathrow.

Left by jerry on April 21st, 2006 at 5:41 pm

Ben and Jerry - impressive double act - trash everyone who disagrees with you, apart from Chris ,her contribution was really high brow - would you do it face to face - you probably would. Maybe you two can help me - the question is - what motivated Jose Medellin to do what he did- no i dont want to hear cos hes a rapist murdering scumbag - that is not an answer,is it. You may have to think about this but i am confident you two may have an insight. i pose the question cos i need an answer and this is supposed to be a site to discuss, isnt it. Love your ice cream - Bob.

Left by bob on April 22nd, 2006 at 2:23 am

Sorry Bob,

I will have another look at Chris for you.

What motivated him to do it was gang mentality. He wasn’t strong enough to walk away when his ‘black and white gang’ suggested a double rape and murder. Whether he was the initial ‘idea’guy’ or someone who simply joined in, will never be clear to us. What we know however, was that he took part in multiple rape, degradation and strangling followed by stomping on their necks and faces. The result, two innocent girls spent their last hours in the most horrific circumstances imaginable.

So dealing only with facts, we know he had a history of violence. We know he participated in this crime we know he MAY have been the instigator. We know that whilst in prison, the Black and white gang were involved in various ofences against prison officers.

So, the question for me is, what do we do with him now? We could release him back