You know it was the US that pushed for the international law ensuring access to the consulate for the accused in foreign countries because there are more American travellers in the world than from any other country.

I can be sure I would be a little pissed if I convicted of a crime in Mexico without access to our embassy.

Left by Preston on March 29th, 2005 at 10:40 am

Here’s a thought…

When you go to Mexico, don’t rape and murder any of their citizens.

If Jose Medellin had kept that simple thought in mind when he crossed our borders, he wouldn’t have to worry about needing access to his consulate.

Left by Robbie on March 29th, 2005 at 10:48 am

Thanks for the link! If you read the article I have no problem executing the mexican but I do have a problem when my personal safety is put at risk for a radical right wing political agenda. Its one thing if you commit a crime in another country and they arrest you but when you are wrongly accused and arrested I think you sould want access to you r consulate.

Left by The Bastard on March 29th, 2005 at 11:01 am

Well we can agree on that.

But aside from the finding of guilty or not guilty there is an assumption is that foreign nationals are not aware of their rights. If the police had simply informed the accused of their rights there wouldn’t have been a problem.

This goes to one of my pet peeves about the conservative/liberal debate. Liberals are called anti-business when they want the rules enforced that keep businesses from cheating customers or investors. They’re call ’soft on crime’ when they want rules enforced that give us faith in the fair prosecution of crimes.

In fact, these rules enhance the standing of business and the criminal justice system. When people have faith that they won’t be ripped off good businesses do better. When people have trust in the legal system there is less corruption and more effective prosecution.

I wish I understood how anyone enabling and facilitating Enron and Arthur Andersen could be called ‘pro-business’….

Left by Preston on March 29th, 2005 at 11:12 am

Bastard:

Good point- it’s a similar situation to the Bush Administration endangering our troops (and anyone travelling abroad) by flouting the Geneva Convention.

We want rules for the rest of the world to follow but manage to find a reason why they don’t apply to us.

Left by Preston on March 29th, 2005 at 11:31 am

Maybe it’s because the rest of the World doesn’t follow them either…

You act as if American citizens’ ‘rights’ abroad are being upheld…you know, the rights of US citizens like Nicholas Berg. I wonder if he was granted full access to the US Embassy before they cut his head off?

The UN is breaking more international laws these days than they are enforcing. Hell, we can’t even count on these guys not to rape (literally) and plunder the people they are supposed to protect.

Besides, it appears that Jose Medellin, wasn’t ‘deprived’ of his rights. He was just too stupid to ask for them. If the guy doesn’t ask to speak to his embassy, that’s on him. And, 4-years down the road, when he realizes that’s what he should have done…well, it’s a bit late.

If you go to a foreign country illegally, I think you give up any ‘rights’ in that country that you think you’re entitled to. And when you rape and murder their citizens while you’re there illegally, you have even fewer rights.

Left by Robbie on March 29th, 2005 at 11:44 am

No one expects terrorists to be the standards of moral authority.

However, implicit in our crusade for democracy is the notion that we have a system of laws and rights protecting the individual. If we are willing to do away with them in persuit of terrorists then- if I may paraphrase Benjamin Franklin- we do not deserve those rights.

Left by Preston on March 29th, 2005 at 11:51 am

I understand that view, too, Preston.

I’ll tell you what, I think in this situation we should offer the Mexican Gov’ment a compromise…tell them we’re going to execute Medellin, because—well, he’s guilty as hell, and has admited to his crimes. But in the future we’ll make sure all of their citizens who break laws in our country have legal access to their consulate.

But only if that compromise includes the language and understanding that we still fully plan to execute Mexican citizens who come to our country and committ capital offenses against our citizens.

Left by Robbie on March 29th, 2005 at 2:15 pm

I imagine I’ll have to settle for that ‘compromise’.

I’ll be over here reflecting on my formidable powers of persuasion…

But more seriously- allowing this conviction to stand provides no incentive for local law enforcement to abide by the promise of future compliance. If he is so clearly guilty (I have no knowledge or opinion of this case) it shouldn’t be a problem re-convicting him with appropriate counsel.

Left by Preston on March 29th, 2005 at 2:50 pm

Wait a minute Jose. Everybody knows the laws in these United States. If you are a child killer or serial killer, for example, you’re guaranteed at least 20 years of appeals and 3 squares a day courtesy of the U.S. taxpayer. Heck you can even get married, get a college degree… the possibilities are limitless. Your fellow countrymen risk their lives by the tens of thousands every year to get here. Are you really sure you want to go back to Mexico?

Left by dianne on March 30th, 2005 at 6:17 am

Yeah, I bet prison is a blast. Throw in some beatings and rapes and it’s no wonder we have millions begging to stay in there.

Left by Preston on March 30th, 2005 at 9:44 am

By the way, please don’t tell me you’re opposed to felons getting married or getting an education in prison. Maintaining family connections and getting an education are proven ways to lower recidivism.

Surely the need for vengeance isn’t so great that we are going to refuse to do things that actually lower the crime rate?

Left by Preston on March 30th, 2005 at 9:48 am

Maintaining family connections and getting an education are proven ways to lower recidivism.

You know what works even better for lowering recedivism? Executing people who deserve to die. Like Jose Medellin. And Raul Villareal. And the other 3 gang members who raped and murdered those two young girls. I don’t give a damn if the gang members were 16, 17, or 18 at the time.

And no amount of ‘family visits’ or ‘continuting education’ is going to ‘rehabiliate’ a person who has it within himself to rape and murder young girls. That correspondence course just hasn’t been developed yet.

Left by Robbie on March 30th, 2005 at 9:58 am

Of course the comment regarding recidivism is directed at people who aren’t going to spend the rest of their lives in jail.

Left by Preston on March 30th, 2005 at 10:13 am

you guys are all idiots the should release every fucking gangmember on earth they’re fucking fine we need them to fuck ya know OUT HERE SO PLEASE LET”S STOP ENCARsaRATION

Left by sandy on April 1st, 2005 at 4:29 pm

Hey Preston, If you would like knowledge of the case visit the website that tells their story. All you have to do is type in Jennifer Ertman or Elizabeth Pena and it will take you right to it. I am a police officer in Houston where the crimes occured and trust me I have seen a lot of brutal things in my life, but nothing compares and nothing could prepare anyone for the things that were seen the day the girls bodies were found. Maybe you should read the story, then make a determination yourself about the people you seem to be defending. While you are reading the story try to imagine how the girls felt during their last few moments on earth.

Left by Joe on April 3rd, 2005 at 3:20 am

Joe- my reservations about the death penalty don’t have anything to do with the brutality of the crime- of course vengeance is the first impulse after a disgusting act such as these murders.

I’m more interested in effectiveness: could the millions of dollars used to prosecute the death penalty be better used to put more cops on the streets?

Theoretical: do we want to give the state such power to take life?

Procedural: historically there has been hugely unjust application of the death penalty: black victims are seemingly held in lower esteem. The DNA evidence that has overturned so many cases should lead us to question not facilitate the procedures leading to capital punishment.

If it could be proved that the death penalty saved innocent lives there might be a moral weight to its implementation. But in fact states with the death penalty have a higher murder rate leading me to believe that it might simply be perpetuating, shall we say, a ‘culture of death’.

I even worry about the victims of the families in the implementation of the death penalty. From what you hear on television there seems to be this false belief that killing the killer brings ‘closure’. It seems that the capital punishment process simply strings along loved ones through a process to deliver a result that is doomed not to meet their expectations.

Lastly, if we look around the world I’d rather align our country with nations such as Canada and Germany, not Saudi Arabia and China.

Left by Preston on April 3rd, 2005 at 8:21 am

Preston, I must say you do convey a very persuasive argument. I agree that there should be absolutely no doubt of the guilt of the person in question before the death penalty is administered (There is no doubt in the quilt of these six animals that committed this crime.) As a matter of fact not only did they admit to the crime but they laughed about it during there interviews with the police and bragged about it to other inmates while in the county jail. At least two of the six individuals have been implicated in a similar murder the year before this happened. One of them while on death row made a homemade knife and stabbed a gaurd causing permanant nerve damage. So I ask you is it possible to rehabilitate a person like this. Highly unlikely.

Secondly, unless you are faced with the same situation as the Ertmans and Penas how could you possibly know what there expectations are? So how could you say that this process is doomed not to meet their expectations? It may meet or even exceed their expectations.

Next, You could not actually believe that putting more police on the streets would stop crimes. Could You? Ninty five percent of a police officers day is spent responding to a call after the crime has been committed. The other five percent (if it is really that high of a percentage) the police officer just got lucky and happened upon a crime. Sure this would increase the odds of getting lucky but no amount of police officers could stop crime from happening all together. So in reality you would be spending less money with greater effect by utilizing the death penalty as a detterant to the crime. I understand that the crimes will still happen even though the death penalty is in place, but if it sent one rational thought through one would be killers head just before he killed your 14 year old daughter and he changed his mind, wouldn’t it be worth it. Unfortunalty this would only work if the final process is carried out, its not enough just to threaten.

Comparing our judicial process to the likes of Saudi Arabia and China is like comparing apples and oranges. Yes the final result is the same but our process is carried out in a controlled enviroment. After years and years of appeals. Not out in the streets for all women and children to see with no chance of appeals or a fair trial.

Finally, I ask you did you go to the website and read about these two young girls? If you have not, I urge you to do so.

Left by Joe on April 4th, 2005 at 4:10 am

Joe:

Thanks for the reasoned reply- I was expecting you to come out swinging…

No, I actually haven’t gone to read about the murder. I frankly don’t have the stomach for it. I’ll trust you that it was as barbaric as you say. (and I wonder what the hell these guys were doing on the street if they had done this crime before)

I’ll admit that I am speculating (and on uncertain ground) when I suggest that capital punishment provides false hope to the families of the victims. I should have explained my thinking a little more clearly: I simply feel that by its nature the capital punishment process last years longer than a simple life sentence- there is appeal after appeal. So the ‘closure’ (such an absurd concept when relating to the murder of a family member) that could happen after a few months in a non-death penalty state lingers on and on in a place like Texas. I have no proof for this so I’m open to consideration.

My greater points however, are about the effectiveness of capital punishment. Does it actually provide a deterrence? You’d think it would be proven by now. People like these killers don’t really seem to be the kind of foward-looking thinkers that deterrence would have an effect on.

But as to your point about the ineffectiveness of cops on the street: I’m surprised to hear you say so. I believe the reduction in crime in New York City, for example, was in part due to the number of cops (in addition to demographics and the waning of the crack epidemic). If you are arguing the effectiveness of deterrence- the greatest deterrent would be simply arresting the perpetrator and this can only happen with a satisfactory police presence.

While we may feel the desire for vengeance I’m not sure if this is a power we want to give the state particularly given the provable discrepancies in its application.

Left by Preston on April 4th, 2005 at 9:15 am

Preston, Once again you are right about many aspects of the things you speak of, but once again I need to challenge a few points.

You are right these type of killers are probably not forward thinking enough to consider the consiquinces (have no idea how to spell that word) of there actions. But there are other types of killers out there that don’t just kill in the heat of the moment, the scary thing is a lot of them have an extremely high intellect. So once again I pose the question to you if it saved just one wouldn’t it be worth it. Preston, unfortunately there is no way to prove if capital punishment acted as a deterant or not because if they did not commit the crime we will never have a chance to talk to them about it.

Please don’t get me wrong about the number of police on the streets, I would like nothing more and I don’t feel that they are ineffective, I was merely pointing out the fact that they can not be everywhere at once and crime will always happen no matter how many police we have on the streets.

You are exactly right, that the greatest deterent would be to simply arrest the perpetrator but that is much harder than you make it sound. One thing people forget is a criminal has no rules that he has to play by the police do. If the police break the rules the media jumps on them and makes them the bad guy. Granted in some cases the police are the bad guys and deserve the negative media but in most cases where a subject is released due to police error it is a simple mistake that an individual officer makes. The OJ case is a fine example, but in that there were a combination of many major mistakes and small ones (or what I would consider small) (some may not). OJ is guilty as sin and he walks a free man today simply because he didn’t have to play by any rules. Which brings me to my next point. The two punks that were implicated in the murder the year prior to the Ertman/Pena murders were only implicated when DNA testing was taken sometime after their arrest for the Murders of the two girls. I am not real sure but I believe that they had already been convicted, sentenced and placed in prison before these tests were taken, so it very well could have been several years later. Realy am unclear on this.

Preston, I understand that you may have problems stomaching the details of the murders of these two girls, but please I beg you read there story, it is very detailed and may give you some sort of an idea of how these girls felt when this was happening to them. There are no pictures of the aftermath, I think you can handle it. I read it at least once a year in rememberance and find myself swelling up with tears. Not only that but there very well may be something within this story that you could pass on to a loved one that may save their life someday.

I enjoy our correspondence and hope that you would read there story and maybe change your mind, at least about these six animals only five of which were every on death row two have now been removed due to the recent Supreme Court ruling.

Left by Joe on April 5th, 2005 at 3:03 am

Well, I just read the story. It was horrific. Our judicial system is totally out of control. Kill Terri Schiavo but save somebody who has brutally raped and murdered children. I don’t get it. Where are we headed in this country?

Left by dianne on April 5th, 2005 at 8:14 am

Ok- Joe, I read the piece. It is, of course, terribly sad. Particularly the part about the one girl returning to try and help the other.

So, do I believe that these animals should die probably. But I believe that legal system should be run on higher ideals that just my emotions. 1000 years ago it would be legal to avenge a murder with another. Societies determined that wasn’t the smoothest or most ethical way to run- but it was hard to argue with the results.

Similarly, I want our government to decide on the legality of capital punishment based on its effects on society not simply the passions of the agrieved. Surely, there is some Old Testament justice to the sentence and the certainty that the convicted will not kill again. But I personally don’t believe that those points outweigh the downsides I’ve mentioned before: the cost, the lack of effectiveness as a deterrent, the arbitrary application of the law, the possibility of mistakes, and the simple conservative value of a limited government.

Left by Preston on April 5th, 2005 at 6:12 pm

Well Preston, I think I got out of you what I wanted. At least you say that these six savages need to die. I have to admit that before this case I was niether for or against the death penalty, it really didn’t matter either way. I still have reservations about it. But in cases such as these I say fry em. I agree with you Dianne. It has been nice corresponding with you Preston, you have made me open my eyes to some things thanks. Keep these two girls and many others just like them in your thoughts and Prayers.

Left by Joe on April 7th, 2005 at 2:49 pm

Not to break up the good feelings but I wouldn’t quite characterize my post that way. I obviously think they are scum but I have many reservations about killing them for the reasons I’ve outlined above.

In any case, it has been interesting discussing this with you.

Left by Preston on April 7th, 2005 at 5:00 pm

dont worry about it leave them alone hello idiots theres women out here waiting for them hello

Left by Andrea on June 13th, 2005 at 11:13 am

Andrea- I am very interested in speaking to you. You said on a different thread that you are marrying on of the 6? However, I think that the comments you make are baseless and immature. To prevent giving all female associates of inmates a bad rap, I suggest you improve your style of communication.

Joe- You are a Houston cop. Did you work this case personally? What is the extent of your knowledge on the evidence used to convict? What I’m getting to particularly is, all emotions aside, do you believe the evidence was there for a solid conviction?

Preston- I am with you on all of the iniquities with the death penalty. I was on the fence for a long time. You know, of course if it happened to me then retribution would say an eye for an eye. However, the rest of that scripture reads “vengence is mine”. There is one Supreme Judge all criminals will answer to when the time comes. It is not mans place to judge. Yes, if they are found guilty, then lock them up. I think being locked up for life is worse than sudden death. I know Jose personally. Yes, the crime disgusts me. We have talked about it often. But I know the person that he has become after 12 years of incarceration. No one wants to here this but, people do chance for the better. The goal of the prison system initially was rehabilitation to prevent recidivism. I think we the people have given up on the system because it seems to favor the criminals, and have instead shifted our focus to retribution instead. What is the right answer? There is only one man that truly knows.

Left by JustUs on June 14th, 2005 at 7:14 am

Thanks for chiming in JustUs…though I disagree with you on nearly every point you make, you at least make an attempt at reasoned and lucid arguments (unlike Andrea).

A couple of thoughts on your comments though:

1) What exactly is a “female associate of inmates”? Don’t you mean girlfriends and wifes (often via marriage by proxy) of inmates? The term female associate sounds like another word either for a conjugal hooker or a female defense lawyer.

2) You asked Joe if he believed the evidence was there for a solid conviction — You mean aside from Medellin’s confession? And the accounts and testimony of the other 5 gang members who took part in the rape and murder of young Jennifer and Elizabeth? Or do you mean the forensic evidence that directly tied Medellin to the crime scene?

Are you somehow confused as to Medellin’s actual guilt in this crime? Because not even Medellin has claimed he didn’t do it.

3) Rehabilitation is not now, nor has it ever been the primary goal of incarceration. Hell, it’s not even in the top 3 goals. The first goal of incarceration is to protect society from these thugs. The second goal is punishment. Both of these goals trump ‘rehabiliation’.

4) You are right about the one Supreme Judge, though. And I’m betting he’ll judge Medellin the same way that he was judged by his fellow man: Guilty, and condemend to a life of hell.

5) Out of curiosity, which inmate are you an ‘associate’ of? Or at least, enlighten us as to what his crimes were. Did you know your inmate before his crimes? Or did you become his ‘associate’ after he was incarcerated?

Left by Robbie on June 14th, 2005 at 9:40 am

Very cute Robbie. I don’t feel a need to validate myself to you. Let’s get that out right now. But I will entertain your thoughts for a moment.

1) How does Webster define “associate”? A companion; to keep company. Look it up if you don’t believe me. I am not married or dating an inmate. I am married to a very free man. As to your assessment, if you feel the need to label me, I would most correctly fit the profile of female defense lawyer; as I have been doing research for his case.

2) Believe what you read if you wish, Jose’s version and the Houston Police Department’s version of a “voluntary confession” vary greatly in detail. You figure it out. What forensic evidence are you referring to that you think tied him to the crime scene? Since you know so much I mean.

3)Moving on, I am a criminal justice student. I believe it would be safe to say that you are not. The goals I listed are stated in the history of the American Justice System. You can look that up too.

4) This is your opinion and it’s respectful. However don’t knock others who seek to see colors other than black and white. It’s not becoming. Quite frankly, it’s ironically judgemental of you.

5) Had you read my post instead of skimming it, you would have noticed that I wrote “I know Jose personally.” And don’t make me have to get Webster on you for the definition of personally. But since you’ll be consulting him anyway, why don’t you go ahead and look up “platonic” while you’re at it. Just in case you get curious again.

It’s been a pleasure Robbie.

Left by JustUs on June 16th, 2005 at 8:45 am

Can someone please tell me what exactly Jose Medellin confessed to? I have not been able to find anywhere on the internet what he confessed to doing and what kind of DNA linked him to the crime? I have taken a strong interest in this case and it would be very helpful to know. If anyone can help, it would be greatly appreciated.

Left by Candace on June 20th, 2005 at 10:12 am

Mr. Medellin’s appeals are all based on not knowing that he had a right to contact his consulate (he wasn’t denied access to his consulate, he just didn’t know that he could contact them).

None of his appeals are based on his actual innocense. Why? Because he’s guilty. He’s not disputing that part of his trial. He claims that it was just an “adolecent mistake”.

Ok, let the murderer have his retrial. And when he’s found guilty again (because, even his consulate can’t pretend that he didn’t actually commit the crimes he committed), don’t even take him back to his cell — march him straight from the courtroom to the death chamber.

Left by Robbie on June 20th, 2005 at 11:14 am

Robbie, are you replying to me?

Left by Candace on June 20th, 2005 at 11:36 am

Yes, Candace, I was.

But I also found some more of the info you were looking for (I hope you’re not a “criminal justice” student like Justus…because it only took me about 3 minutes to find this information).

You asked what Jose confessed to? Well, here it is:

If you’ll look in Argument, Part I of United States Supreme Court No. 04-5928, Medellin v. Dretke, you’ll find the following statement:

“In the present case, Medellín gave his confession within a few hours of arrest”

The evidence against Medellín included his written statement after arrest, in which he admitted substantial participation in the crimes, see id., at 6a; J. A. 14-18, including his personal participation in strangling Elizabeth. J. A. 17. This statement was made between 5:54 a.m. and 7:23 a.m. on the day of his arrest, June 29, 1993.

And what did Medellin confess?

…[that] he sexually assaulted one of the girls and bragged about having ‘opened’ her since she apparently had been a virgin. As if to accentuate his conquest, appellant [Medellín] showed Christina [his sister-in-law] his blood soaked underwear. Appellant related that after another gang member sexually assaulted the second girl, he ‘turned her around’ and anally raped her.”

Left by Robbie on June 20th, 2005 at 11:49 am

Well Robbie, I am a C.J. major and I wanted to know. I have done a whole lot of research on this and did not find that. I do appreciate your help, if that’s what it is. You seem to be bothered by your effort to help. What brings you to this site? Why are you so interested in the case?

Left by Candace on June 20th, 2005 at 1:01 pm

Candace, my apologies if I seem bothered by the effort. I actually enjoy helping (researching and reporting) in this way…which is why I run this site (if you didn’t know, this is my blog).

And unlike a typical Democrat non-apology apology (where I tell you I’m sorry you were offended, but not sorry for my actual comments), I apologize for being harsh in my initial response to you.

I take issue with those who try to defend criminals such as Meddellin in any way. I assumed (without knowing) that your interest in this case equated to support of Meddellin (which it may, but it was not fair to assume that simply based on what you had posted).

As to why I’m interested in this case? I’m a huge proponet of the death penalty, and I use this blog in part to remind people of why we execute the people that we do…to remind them of the inhuman acts that they commited upon our children.

Left by Robbie on June 20th, 2005 at 2:22 pm

Do you believe that in any way a person can change for the better? Again, just a question…. Were you linked to either one of the victims or their family in any way?

Left by Candace on June 20th, 2005 at 2:53 pm

I’m not in any way related to anybody involved in this story.

And yes, I do believe that people can and do change. It’s a natural state of the human condition. And very often those changes can be for good.

But that does not excuse nor diminish evils from the past.

Nor do I believe that you can change that part of you that is capable of what Meddellin did to those two little girls into something ‘good’.

The part of a person that is capable of torturing another human and then killing them is hardwired. You don’t suddenly go to someone who crosses that line to someone who won’t.

Left by Robbie on June 20th, 2005 at 3:00 pm

Thank you very much for your opinion and for your time. I don’t want to put you out with my opinion but I have been writing to Jose for a little while now and although that doesn’t mean I know him any better than the next guy, I feel like I do. This could be a risky chance that I am taking but he is 30 years old now…. People make mistakes and I wasn’t there that night to witness what happened but he swears on everything he has that he was not the one who raped and murdered Jennifer and Elizabeth. He seems like one of the most down to earth and open-minded people I have come across in a very long time. He is capable of unconditional love and he knows and understands completely what this has caused. He has a daughter of his own. I also have a daughter and I can’t imagine losing her to something as horrible as the crime that HE is charged with. I took a chance and picked a death row inmate to write for an assignment and I met him. I was a firm believer in the death penalty. I belived in an equal punishment such as if you shoot someone, then you should be shot to death. I have since reconsidered my opinion. These people are real and SOME (not all) have been falsely convicted. Just take a look at all of the MAJOR screw-ups out very own HPD crime lab is responsible for. I am not angry with you for your opinion so please respect mine. Just out of curiosity….how old are you? This is not meant as an insult….I’m wondering if where we stand age-wise could be the big difference here.

Left by Candace on June 20th, 2005 at 3:17 pm

I respect your opinions as well, Candace. We each arrive at what we believe in very different ways.

I’m 36, but I’ve never considered how my age contributes to my pro-death penalty stance. I’ve been pro-death penalty for as long as I can remember (and growing up in Conroe, TX…which is only 30 miles from Death Row in Huntsville, I was familiar with it at a very early age).

I’m just curious…if Medellin claims to be innocent of the charges, then how does he reconcile that with his confession where he stated unequivocally that he raped both girls, and used his shoelace to strangle one of them to death?

Does he claim that it was a forced confession? Or does he claim that he never said those things and the cops “made it up” (although, the tape of him saying those things must be pretty damning, I suspect).

If either of those were the case, then why aren’t they the basis of his appeal?

As far as “people make mistakes”…raping and then beating, kicking, and strangling to death two little girls is not a mistake. Let’s be clear about that. Cheating on a test at school is a mistake. Cheating on your wife is a bigger mistake. Going to Texas A&M instead of a real college is an unforgivable mistake.

Make no mistake about it…what Jose did to those little girls was no mistake…it was inhuman.

And he deserves to die for it. No matter how much better a man he might be now (he only had “up” to go, anyway…he couldn’t have become any less of a man), no matter how charmed you are by him…now matter how many years have passed since the Ertman and Pena families buried their little girls…he still deserves to die.

And hopefully, soon, he will.

Left by Robbie on June 20th, 2005 at 3:40 pm

Again, I respect your opinion. The thing is….the video (to my knowledge) was never used b/c it was “lost”. Now, as Jose stated to me. How do you lose a video where you have an honest to God confession? HOW? There are other things that went on as well and I do know for a fact what police will go through to get that confession. You know as well as I do that they will lie and sometimes beat it out of a person. Have you ever held a conversation with a death row inmate? I hadn’t until Jose. Are you involved in the cj system? Meaning-do you have a career in this field? Again-I’m not second guessing your knowledge. Mine is minimal. After this year I will only have my Associates. I am 23 years old so we are not THAT far apart in age. I wasn’t being prejudice towards you for your age, it’s just that the older people I have come across seem to be the “sticklers” for not giving anyone a chance. No offense! Have you lost a family member to a volent act such as this? I want to know what made you so interested in this case.

Left by Candace on June 20th, 2005 at 3:51 pm

Sorry for the typo’s

Left by Candace on June 20th, 2005 at 3:53 pm

The difference between you and I in this matter is that I believe that the overwhelming majority of police officers and detectives are good, honest, decent people. And I believe that 99% of all people in death row are vile scum whom deserve to be there.

Because of this, I am ALWAYS more inclined to believe the testimony of officers than I am the “I’m innocent” lies of a murdering gang member.

You have decided to put your faith in this guy—who is more obviously guilty than probably anybody else on death row—and believe him over the word of honest, non-murderering/raping police officers. I don’t understand how someone becomes that cynical. His own family testified against him. But you, a total stranger, believe him.

It saddens and worries me that an otherwise seemingly intelligent young woman such as yourself is so easily duped and charmed by a lying death row child-raping murderer…and that you will soon be part of the criminal justice system. I see “defense lawyer” in your future.

So, I’m curious…are you alleging that a confession was beaten out of Jose? Because it sure sounds that way to me. Do you have evidence? Or are you just that comfortable slandering good honest cops? You claim to have ‘first-hand’ knowledge of cops using illegal methods to obtain confessions—OK. How? You’re a second year CJ student. I’m sure you’ve been allowed into exactly ZERO interrogation rooms during an interrogation.

What you do have is your own belief in a corrupt criminal justice system. So you just feel comfortable spouting off anti-police rhetoric without a shred of evidence to back it up.

If Jose’s confession was in any way coerced or not true, that would be the basis of his appeals. Especially if a taped confession was lost. Instead, his only appeal was that he was too stupid to ask to speak to his consulate.

I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt, Candace. But your continued defense of this child-raping murderer makes me sick to my stomach. I don’t understand it, nor do I respect it.

If you think he’s innocent, I think you’re an idiot.

Left by Robbie on June 23rd, 2005 at 11:56 am

Robbie, I do not know why, but I have not been able to reply to you until now. Something was wrong with my computer. Now to comment on your ever so pig-headed remark about me being an idiot. What kind of education do YOU have in criminal justice? Have you SEEN any of the confessions or did YOU take part in the investiagtion? I THINK NOT! I do belive that there are guilty people on death row and I do think that some crimes constsitute a punishment of death, but YOU are sadly mistaken not to have all of the facts and to be so judgemental? Who are YOU to judge? Have you ever spoke with Jose or any of the investiagtors in the case? Probably not. I’ll bet you have even less facts than I have on the case and you’re putting your faith into what could be scum as well. Who’s to say who is right? But you know what, you’re going to continue to live a sad, pathetic life based on YOUR OWN ignorance and I promise you, it will get you nowhere. Take it from me. Only God can judge, so until that day comes, maybe you should do something a little more suitable with your time than this. Frankly, you’re not so good at it! And by the way: judgemental people make me sick to my stomach, too.

Left by Candace on June 29th, 2005 at 3:28 pm

The night of Jose’s execution (and don’t kid yourself, that day is coming soon), I will make the short drive to Huntsville from Austin, and I will stand vigile and bear witness in support of the families and victims of Jose’s crimes.

Left by Robbie on June 29th, 2005 at 3:57 pm

Better yet, why don’t you leave your phone number so he can give you a call personally when he is released!!

Left by Candace on June 29th, 2005 at 4:03 pm

And I just love your rebuttal to my questions….what happened Robbie, did you get tongue tied? Can’t think of ANYTHING? I figured that! It’s been nice chatting with you!

Left by Candace on June 29th, 2005 at 4:48 pm

If I had my way I would take Villareal, Cantu, O’Brien, and the rest of them and punish them fittingly for what they did. They raped anally, vaginally, and orally, moreover they strangled the girls with belts on both sides held after which they stomped on the girls necks. So therefore, first I’d castrate them, run hot pokers up their rectums, and sear their mouth before I cut their heads off with a very sharp ax. They had no regard for human life so why should we for theirs. Their deaths unfortunately are painless because they’ll die in the gas chamber. They should instead be electrocuted.

Left by Davod on June 30th, 2005 at 3:25 am

That is a very intelligent reply, Davod! You should be classified in the same category as a murderer b/c with the feelings that you just stated, you are no different. You seem to be a very closed-minded individual filled with hate and that will get you nowhere. And just so that you know: Perez and Villareal will never die in the “gas chamber” or lethal injection b/c they were MINORS and if you forgot to read up on out current law; minors cannot be executed. Where did you get your facts from b/c I would sure like to know.

Left by Candace on June 30th, 2005 at 9:04 am

You’re right, Candace…here in Texas they won’t get the death they deserve by lethal injection. But now that they are off of death row and their solitary cells, and back in General Population, Davod is not too far off about them being raped the way they raped those poor little girls.

Let’s not forget how other prisoners treat child-rapers in prison.

And Candace, I’ll put up my BS in Professional Writing and MS in Technical Communications + 3 years US Army active duty up against your 2nd year associates degree in CJ as far as educational resumes go.

As to what do I know about the facts? I’d be willing to bet that I do have more facts on the case than you do. Have you read the entire MEDELLIN v. DRETKE (39 pages) brief to the United States Supreme Court?

Also, via a simple Freedom of Information Act request and a short drive to the Department of Records here in Austin, I was able to obtain and read the entire STATE v. MEDELLIN, No. 675430, Judgment from the 339th. District Court from Oct 11, 1994. Have you read that one?

Or, from the same Freedom of Information Act request, I obtained and read MEDELLIN v. COCKRELL, No. H-01-4078 (S.D. Tex June 26, 2003), where it was determined that (and I quote from the document):

Medellín was informed of his right to legal representation before he confessed to involvement in the murders. Medellín waived his right to advisement by an attorney. Medellín does not challenge the voluntary nature of his confession.

Now, the only other information that you might be privy to are personal correspondence and meetings with Medellin himself. Who of course claims he’s innocent. And you believe him. Which makes you an idiot.

Because, obviously, a man who rapes and murders little children is probably also capable of lying.

So, again, I ask you to refute the evidence against Medellin and provide actual (and factual) evidence that proves Jose’s innocence (and NO, Jose’s “word” that he didn’t do it doesn’t count).

Yeah, that’s what I thought.

Good luck on the criminal justice career, though. Looks like you’re off to a great start. After Jose’s dead, maybe you can befriend and take up the cause of Dennis Rader (the BTK killer from Kansas City).

Left by Robbie on June 30th, 2005 at 10:18 am

I sit at my boring job and wonder why smart/educated people with degrees, such as yourself, do stuff like this all day. Don’t you have a real job.

About BTK, good idea. I’ll let you know what I find out…..

Left by Candace on July 1st, 2005 at 10:16 am

You hide behind this little screen name all day, “Robbie”, if that’s who you really are, and I’m not the one to believe your lies or follow the leader as someone as pathetic as yourself. I see “crooked cop” in your future. Maybe you should try since you’re so smart and have such a wonderful education. What school did you graduate from? Just for shits and grins!!

Left by Candace on July 2nd, 2005 at 7:03 pm

And yet you’re content to believe the lies and follow the lead of a convicted serial murderer and child moleting rapist? That speaks volumes.

And, Baylor University, University of Houston, and Texas Tech University.

Thanks for asking.

Left by Robbie on July 2nd, 2005 at 9:49 pm

Well Howdy Robbie,

I sure enjoyed this little tit for tat you and Candace have gotten yourselves tangled in. I personally didn’t see the point in getting into it with you like this. I thought this blog was for intellectual debates- I give my opinion, you state yours, and just maybe we could meet somewhere in the middle with a mutual agreement to disagree. However, I picked up on the snide remarks you threw my way and I simply refuse to throw stones back. It’s childish. So I bowed out gracefully.

When I said “look it up” I was referring to the history of the American Justice System dodo, because you challenged what I said in regards to goals of incarceration. I wasn’t referring to his case. Anyone can go to yahoo and type in “Medellin” which is obviously what you did. Without the video tape or someone to corroborate his version, I admit that he’s facing an uphill battle.

Candace, you say you know Jose, yet the first post you made was asking for help in finding out what he confessed to. Am I the only one that sees something wrong with this picture? If you really know Jose you would know how he feels about people putting his business out on the internet (you talk about him having a daughter and of his proclamation of innocence). Anything and everything can and will be used against him if he gets a new trial. Very poor judgement cookie. If you knew Jose for real, you would know that he’d curse you out for the things you have posted and cut you out of his life. So please stop. Just as easily as you found this and other sites, so can the DA.

Back to you Robbie… My education surpasses Candace’s but you can’t fault her for attempting to apply her learning. Stop being so harsh. She did say one thing I was thinking though- you are preaching to the choir. Why don’t you ask Jose for yourself all the questions you throw out on this blog? I’d be glad to give you his address. As to your education, communications and writing might qualify you for blogging but you’re no better than the next wanna-be Sherlock Holmes, so don’t kid yourself. And you really want to use the 3 years in the Army as leverage? Dude, on that note I’ve got you beat HANDS DOWN. Even if you entered as a butter bar you were no smarter than a private- 3 years hardly makes you the next Krescan (sp?)

I am respecting my friend’s wishes by ceasing this conversation with you. However, I have loads of opinions on the Scott Peterson case that I’m sure will piss you off if you’re ever in the mood. It’s not your fault you grew up in the #1 execution state in the nation. I truly wouldn’t expect you to feel any different than you do. I have family that works in the prison system there and both my parents make a living off of putting people in jail. Candace may not know any personal stories of corrupt cops, but I sure do! But I choose to challenge the norm; you know, form my own opinion. By the way, Baylor is a great school. I’ll be transferring there soon. How does it make you feel knowing that I will share your Alma Mata (don’t bother responding- I’m sure you have nothing nice to say anyway).

Left by JustUs on July 6th, 2005 at 8:58 am

Justus,
I knew you would reply sometime soon. I have heard so much about you if your real name is something like “K”. Yeah, Jose really is my freind and he has also seen what you wrote on this blog b/c I sent it to him. He was very thankful for both of our comments. Maybe if you hadn’t fallen off from writing him, you would know that. He did not cuss me out for anything. And about the confession: Jose cannot tell me what he confessed to as it could be used against him for even talking about it. I have a lot more info than you think I do but why do I need to argue with you as to whether I am a friend of his or not. Candace IS my real name and if you care to ask, he’ll tell you what you need to know. As I understand it though, you’re the one who cannot write to him anymore. Am I right or am I right? You know, you say that I cannot give as much info as you or may not have the knowledge that you do but I have NOT been in school as long and I will get there soon. You are no different than me and aren’t we (Jose’s freinds) all supposed to be on the same side? Maybe I’m wrong…

Left by Candace on July 14th, 2005 at 9:40 am

And as I read your comment again, it angers me how you can regard yourself so highly “your education surpasses mine”, like I am some kind of idiot. It also angers me that you would lash out so quickly without speaking to Jose first about me. “If I really knew him”….Maybe YOU really don’t know him all that well if you truly belive that he would cuss me out and cut me out of his life. OUCH! And as far as education goes: please don’t forget that you started somewhere too, so you shouldn’t try to make the “beginners” feel any less important than you are. It’s not nice. Now, I will respect my FRIEND’S wishes as well and not continue with these ridiculous arguments. Later days, Justus!

Left by Candace on July 14th, 2005 at 2:38 pm

Wow. A catfight between two “criminal justice” students over a death row inmate who raped and strangled to death two teenage girls…

Now, now, ladies. There’s no need to fight.

If you’ll wait a few more months and he’s thrown on death row, one of you can claim Joseph Duncan as your new Death Row boyfriend…

Left by Robbie on July 14th, 2005 at 3:08 pm

No Robbie,
It’s just that I don’t appreciate judgemental people like you calling me an “idiot” and her claiming that Jose and I are not friends. How the hell does everyone know so much? Just curious. Maybe you should start in on Mr. Duncan. I’m sure you’ve got plenty of opinions and most importantly, stone cold FACTS!!! Right?

Left by Candace on July 14th, 2005 at 3:54 pm

I’ve already written plenty about Mr. Duncan. And some of it did involve some investigative work and writing.

But I have another question for you: when your death row inmate boyfriends are gassed/injected/hung/electrocuted (depending on the state)—what’s the appropriate amount of grieving time before you get back on DeathRowPenPals.com and find another one? Or do you just hedge your bets and keep several at a time?

Left by Robbie on July 14th, 2005 at 4:13 pm

Actually, the funny thing is that you know about that site. I’ve never heard of it! Very cute, Robbie! I found out about Jose during an in-class research assignment to find out what the conditions are like on death row. I never went into the whole thing looking for a friend. I thought exactly the way you do. You can belive that or not. I have a lot of information that you don’t and probably won’t see or hear about for a long while, but let’s just put it this way: I have enough information to belive in his innocence. You criticize me and say that everything I know is bullshit, but where the hell did you come up with his own family members testifying against him? Bet you thought I forgot, huh? Nobody in his family testified. Peter Cantu’s brother and brother’s wife testified. We kind of have it figured out though…you’re just fishing for info. from me b/c I am a lot closer to the truth than you are (and you know it). I’m not going to be the person to give it to you. That there was just basic stuff that someone as smart as yourself should have found that in what…let’s say….3 minutes!!

Left by Candace on July 14th, 2005 at 4:26 pm

Hi Candace,

I’m not “K” and I’ve never had a falling out with Jose. He’s had several pals in the past that you are probably confusing me with. I wasn’t throwing stones at you either, so don’t misconstrue my comment. Jose doesn’t have to tell you what he confessed to; that’s public knowledge as Robbie so gleefully pointed out. What Jose can’t tell you is what’s NOT in the court papers– the things that Robbie or no other blogger knows.

I am not attacking you. Robbie is the one that called you an idiot; not me. On the contrary I stuck up for you (”don’t fault her…”). Read again. Saying my education surpassing yours is simply stating a fact. Robbie needed to stop being so harsh, but now you need to stop reading into things and being so sensitive.

This is not a “cat fight” Robbie. I wouldn’t give you the satisfaction. I already said I wasn’t going to stoup to your level, so what makes you think I would bite the bait from anyone else? And once again, I am married. I wasn’t looking for a boyfriend and being able to relate, I will go out on a limb to say Candace wasn’t either. You once asked her how did she become so cynical to the “system” that she would believe a condemned man is innocent. Well, when did YOU become so cynical of others to believe that the system is not fallacious in itself? I’ve been surrounded by law enforcement my entire life. You haven’t. I haven’t lost faith in the “system” but at the same time I know enough not to put all my eggs in one basket, so to speak, either. And you are so quick to jump on the hand’em high bandwagon, yet you don’t bother to highlight all the wrongfully condemned. You are a self proclaimed fact finder. So go find the facts of THIS crime. Who is to be charged for the manslaughter of an inmate that is later exonerated through DNA testing, etc? Or will you simply find some other petty justification of why this person didn’t lead a holy life anyway and they probably never got caught for something just as worthy of this punishment? These are just some questions I have for you.
One person wrongfully condemned among a million is still one too many (and there have been more than a few to warrant a moratorium). Preston pointed this out to you months ago and you were quick to cease ingaging him. Why was that?

Candace, if you feel inclined to contact me, do so through Jose. Not this or any other forum. Don’t let this or any other idiot suck you into their narrow minded vices.

It’s been a thrill as always Robbie.

Left by JustUs on July 21st, 2005 at 2:46 am

Justus-
I appreciate you clearing things up. You did strike me as trying to come across very rude but I understand what you are saying. I don’t feel right trying to contact you through Jose but I will give him my e-mail to give to you and you can also feel free to contact me anytime.

Robbie-
It’s been a lot of fun getting to know you better although I feel like this world would do just fine w/o judgemental people such as yourself. Hey, good luck with your research on Joseph Duncan. Maybe you can share your insight with other people that visit your blog. However, it seems as though we have been the only ones communicating for some time. I guess everyone else got bored quicker than I did. Nonetheless, I’m bored. Nice knowing ya!

Left by Candace on July 21st, 2005 at 8:59 am

Hi my name is Sam, and i am 19 years old from the Uk. Im not here for a big debate! recently Jose, has written me letters. He told me to research him and this is what i found. I think what Jose did is unforgivible….but lets not forget, it was not just him. I also believe that a life sentance is justifiable. Basically, im against the death penalty…maybe he deserves to die. But, we as humans should not have that disision. Thats up to God…let him deal with it… Im sure there are innocent people on deathrow…and that sickens me.

Left by Samantha on January 16th, 2006 at 3:38 pm

…maybe he deserves to die. But, we as humans should not have that disision [sic]

So, Jose got to decide if Jennifer and Elizabeth got to die or live that day. Does that make him God? No, of course it doesn’t. Obviously man is completely capable of “deciding” who gets to live and die. It’s called judgement — and it’s what judges (thus the name) and juries do.

And the death penalty is well defended by biblical verse. If you’re that intent and interested in pen pals, the UK has numerous soldiers in Iraq who would love letters from home via a pen pal. Those guys deserve a devoted and earnest pen pal. Guys like Jose who rape, beat, kill children do not.

…recently Jose, has written me letters

Sam, you make it sound like Jose just picked your name at random from the UK phone directory and started writing you. Obviously you initiated contact with this monster, or he wouldn’t have known where to write you. For your own safety, I hope you used a P.O. Box and not your own actual home address.

Left by Robbie on January 16th, 2006 at 5:30 pm

Im writing from Sweden,and Im also writing to Jose - yes I was the one who initiated contact with him, a few years ago.
I know what Jose told me and I know what I have been reading about the killing and rape…I dont think he is innocent,but does any one of you really know who did what ?
Yes I am from sweden and we dont have death penalty here,and a lifetime in jail is about 12-15 years. You might say its no punich at all but look have we has it here and look how you have it in Usa…
Here its not much murder at all…
By the way if a person was at the same place but didnt comit the crime why should he be jugde like if he was guilty ?
You have a verry strange country over there.
I did some research about death penalty and and read that the states who has it have more murder… What does that tell you?
- Nothing ?
I dont mean they should get free if they have been tested with dna and is guilty because I also think its wrong.
Im sorry my english isnt the best but I hope you can understand.

Left by Lotta on January 24th, 2006 at 4:41 pm

Well hello again Robbie. Don’t have much to say to you this time but I haven’t visited your blog in a while so I thought I would check it out. My message is for Sam this time (but I’m sure you’ll have something to say about it). Sam, you say that you write to Jose but you feel like he is guilty and that “maybe he does deserve to die.” Do you correspond with him on a regular basis or was this like a one time thing? He is my friend and if I did not believe in his innocence, I would not write him. I’m sure he would be very hurt for someone who takes the time to write him and someone who he takes the time to write back would say such a thing. Don’t you think? I’m just curious……Robbie, talk to you soon!

Left by Candace on February 6th, 2006 at 9:42 am

I was intrigued as to why anyone would wish to befriend Mr Medellin — perhaps justus or candace could explain. I logged on to his website and read his penpal introduction. He likes reading, drawing — he says he has grown and is not the same person as when he made an “adolescent choice” — he is not willing to discuss the murder unless you write to him personnally - WHY- as candace and justus think he is innocent after doing so — Mr Medellin will never find the growth he says he seeks until he takes responsibility for what he did — until he owns it.

I did not hear any of his penpals mention Jenny Ertman or Elizabeth Pena — Mr Medellin could only be innocent if he was not at the murder scene — he was there and he wanted those girls dead. I do not seek his death - I want him to say he is sorry - why cant he do it - I do not beleive Mr Medellin is true to himself or any other unless he takes responsibility for his choice.

Has Mr Medellin ever cried himself to sleep thinking about what he did to Jenny Ertman and Elizabeth Pena — you will find the answer is no. Mr Medellin has created a new self, thanks partly to his penpals — he beleives he is not the same person — his protest of innocence reveals his highest thought is to save his life — not to release his soul — that would be true enlightenment.

Left by bob on March 14th, 2006 at 9:08 pm

Bob,
Jose never said on his website that he would discuss his case if you write to him personally. He has never discussed the case with me (not anymore than what you can read about on the internet, anyway). How can you judge a human being like you are judging him without ever giving him a chance? If you ever took the time to write to him, I am confident that you would feel the same as I do. Have you ever been in the wrong place at the wrong time? What if that was the case with Jose? I think we all have. I know I have and if I was held accountable for EVERYTHING that everyone else around me did, I would not have made it as far as I have in my life. Before you start ranting and raving about how you want to hear an apology from him, you should seek to know who he is first and then, if you still feel in your heart of hearts that he owes YOU or anyone else on this blog an apology, write me back….Thanks Bob!!

Left by Candace on March 16th, 2006 at 10:41 am

Candace, thanks for your reply, but you didnt answer why you chose to befriend him.- I didnt think i was ranting and raving - Mr Medellin owes somebody an apology and it isnt me. I think we have all done things we regret - if it hurts other people,we should try to put it right.Idont judge your friend for what hes done but what he hasnt done, he cant change what happened but he can change the end.

The worst thing for me is that because of the manner of their dying Jennifer Ertman and Elizabeth Pena are murder victims - who they were in life is lost aand forgotten - these girls lived - they laughed and cried - loved and were loved -and now they are just a painful memory.

I read recently that the parents of Jenny Ertman had moved house “We had a shrine to Jenny in the old house,but now we have just 2 photos”.HER OWN MOTHER THINKS OF HER DAUGHTER AS A PAINFUL MEMORY - your friend did that. I am considering writing to your friend,I know the murder wasnt personal - he didnt know them - the problem for me is that he still doesnt know them - Mr Medellin likes to work out - I would ask him if he could imagine being in thje gym on a running machine with Jenny aand Elizabeth running either side of him,and just passing the time of day - what do you think your friend would answer - why don’t you ask him.

I know the answer Candace - i know your friend - Jennifer Ertman and Elizabeth Pena didnt exist the night he murdered them and they dont exist now - Mr Medellin has moved on - he is a free spirit - How can that be Candace - how can he move on and dismiss the misery aand devastated lives he created. A free spirit is someone who understands the purpose of life is to create - to live by the highest thought of who you are - Mr Medellin can change his legacy - he can create a new end - to do that he must acknowledge what he did and the people he hurt - it would be harder tthan his fight to live,but only if he is truly changed - truly a free spirit and not the young man,in a park on a dark summers night who wanted those two girls dead.

Left by bob on March 17th, 2006 at 10:45 pm

I like your style, Bob. It’s such a nice change to write someone that doesn’t want to come across hurtful and offensive such as our friend Robbie. I respect the fact that you have your own opinion and I have mine. The way in which I became friends with Jose was unplanned and unintentional. I wrote to Jose for an assignment in one of my criminal justice classes. We were asked to find some interesting facts about what it is like to live on death row. I figured there would be no better way than to write to somone who did indeed live on death row. I chose Jose. Writing to him has been one of the greatest risks that I have taken. When I say great, I mean hat it was a serious risk and it turned out to be a great thing for me. Jose has taught me a lot and for that, I will be forever grateful. Jose will be my friend for life. I cannot explain to you why I feel this way. I am not a stupid person. In fact, I think of myself as a very intelligent person who is ambitious and knows what I want out of life. I work full time, go to school full time and raise my 4-year-old daughter. I share this with you simply to give you a better picture of who I am. I am not a gang banger as Jose used to be. I am not a druggie or a person who even associates herself with these types of people. I am real, and I belive in Jose’s innocence with everything I am and everything I have and I would do anything to help my friend. I cannot stop you from believing the things you do, nor will I try to change your mind. All I can suggest to you is to go ahead and write to him. You can even tell him that we have had some discussions about him on the net and that’s why you felt like writing. I believe that Jose is a kind person who got mixed up in the wrong place at the wrong time. You let me know how you feel after you talk to him.

Regards,
Candace

Left by Candace on March 20th, 2006 at 5:01 pm

Candace, thanks for your thoughtful reply. Its funny but my hesitation in writing to Mr Medellin is partly the risk that i may get to like him and how difficult that could make things for me - to reconcile what he did and the person he is.You have helped me overcome this as you are right - I first wrote you cos i was angry and wanted to have my say - but this is not about what you or i think about your friend. I dont belive Mr Medellin is innocent - but i dont want him to die - i think that would only add to the tragedy. Mr Medellins innocence is not the issue for me. I want him to say he is sorry to the families - I want him to understand that it may seem pointless and ridiculous, but i truly beleive that it would make a difference - the real issue for me is that these parents feel that he murdered their children and he still doesnt care- that degrades their memory -I want him to tell them that he does care, I also need to know that he does care - and that will be what i shall say - thje thing that troubles me the most is the thought that these girls died for nothing - it may take me some time to write your friend as i worry i may scare him off - but basically i think i just need to be straight with him and hope - i feel obliged to keep you informed - and i will - Thanks again Bob.

Left by bob on March 20th, 2006 at 10:41 pm

Bob,
I truly believe you will change your mind about him. I never thought I would EVER stand behind a convicted murderer, but I do. I understand your concern for Jennifer and Elizabeth’s families. I do not ever forget about them and as a mother, I cannot imagine going through life without my daughter. So for me to say that I put my faith in him, you must understand that in my mind, I feel very strongly about the things I’m telling you. I hope you do decide to write and keep me posted, I’ll be looking for your reply in the near future.

Left by Candace on March 21st, 2006 at 10:44 am

Candace, I am an idiot.I only realised tonight coming home from work that - I AM JUDGEMENTAL - i will only write your friend if i get something in return - you would be his friend if you knew he was guilty - a week ago i would have condemned you for this - now i feel you have a strength that the rest of us do not.I am not religious but i do beleive in God - i beleive there is one difference between man and God,and that is a very simple thing - GOD DOES NOT JUDGE - I need to rethink all of this - I am sorry for judging you - i beleive i have learned something special from talking to you, aand now i need to work out how to put that to some use - i feel different about speaking to your friend - Yours gratefully Bob.

Left by bob on March 21st, 2006 at 7:51 pm

I knew Joe Medellin growing up for a short time. he was heartless then and im sure he is heartless now. he never cared what people thought.
we played basketball at a elementry school in houston, he and his friends ( black and white gang) would come by and cae trouble.
i am now all grown up and saved / church go’er , i know GOD forgives BUT these BOY’s gave no mercy and should receive no mercy.

Left by chris on March 22nd, 2006 at 11:49 am

Chris, Iam against the death penalty - always have been,even for Mr Medellin. If he is executed then this tragedy ends with his death - if i thought that would help the families i may feel differently, i dont beleive it will - i am left with the unnacceptable thought that these girls died for nothing. You may be right about him - if you are then he wont be interested in any part of redeeming the memory of Jennifer and Elizabeth - if there is any chance of him telling the families that he is sorry - that he regrets what he did - that he suffers because of it - i think it is worth asking him - im sure his apology would be rejected,but i do beleive it would lessen their pain to know he knows what he did. I am maybe a naive fool about all of this but i feel compelled to do something other than want him dead - i wont accept nothing positive can come from this tragedy - i am no expert in this field - i am not a missionary or any kind of saint - i never knew Jennifer or Elizabeth but if they had to choose his death or his salvation - what if they did not choose his death. Bob.

Left by bob on March 22nd, 2006 at 8:45 pm

Bob,
All I can say is WOW!! I appreciate your kind words once again. It’s so nice to hear that someone visiting this blog has a 1/2 of a brain. As far as Chris goes….GROW UP!! Whatever it was that you guys did in elementary is way in the past. You cannot judge someone that you didn’t even know near the time of the incident. You know what….nevermind….it’s senseless and mindless talking to people like you. Bob, I’m glad that you at least took enough time to realize that this is the life of a truly beautiful person. You may not agree with that aspect of it but you are at least looking at him as a person and that’s a great start. I can only hope that you will continue to give this some thought and one day be one of the few on my side. It’s very late and I don’t have much else to say at this time but I’ve been looking forward to your response and it is greatly appreciated. Sorry for any typo’s.

Left by Candace on March 27th, 2006 at 5:04 am

Candace, nice to know i have half a brain - i began my letter to Jose yesterday, i even used his first name, as now- that itself was difficult for me as it implies a familiarity that we do not share - but how can i attempt to see into this mans soul if i dare not use his name. This letter is the most difficult thing for me to do - i have to reveal myself to him, if i expect the same- and that has been more painful than you may think. No one can change the past - but we can create a different future - Jennifer Ertman and Elizabeth Pena are gone, did they die for nothing - it seems to me that to most people on this blog they did die for nothing - and all that is left is to execute these men - i wont accept they died for nothing - i dont know jose - but i do trust your faith in him and that gives me hope - on your reply to Chris - Candace, dont be so judgemental - you taught me that. Bob.

Left by bob on March 27th, 2006 at 7:55 pm

Bob, you and Candace are the two biggest idiots I have encountered in quite some time.

So, tell me, Bob — what did Elizabeth and Jennifer die for, if not for “nothing”? Are you trying to tell us that Elizabeth and Jennifer had to die brutal, torturous deaths at the hands of Jose and his thug friends so that Jose could “become a better person”? Or did they die so that you two idiots could have such a wonderful prison pen pal?

They did die for nothing. But Jose won’t have that problem. He’s going to die for killing those two girls. I hope it breaks both of your hearts to no end when he does get the lethal dose, too.

Left by Robbie on March 27th, 2006 at 11:30 pm

Robbie, Wondered when you would show up - I am not Jose’s penpal as well you know. If he is a better person then he could only get that way if he has suffered for what he did. Iwant him to be a better person - i want him to know what he did- i want him to acknowledge it, to accept it, to own it. Iwant the families to know that killing their girls matters to him. I am against the death penalty by instinct - i trust my instinct. Does he deserve to live - he thinks so- i want to know why he thinks he deserves to live. You said in an earlier reply that people can change unless they are wired like Jose - i agree with that - but what if we are wrong. I know it wont bring Jenny and Elizabeth back- if he is the same as that night in the park then they did die for nothing - his execution will change nothing - vengeance is short lived, shallow and self centred - this is not about you Robbie - its not about me - this is about two young girls and the man that murdered them - he owes them more than his death.Bob.

Left by bob on March 28th, 2006 at 8:01 pm

Bob,
Just out of curiosity, are you gonna mention me to Jose when you write? Pleasure to hear from you as always Robbie.

Left by Candace on March 30th, 2006 at 7:40 pm

Candace, apologies for late response - i was expecting an attack from Robbie. My letter (if i ever finish it) begins by explaining the sequence of events that led me to the point of deciding to write in the first place - so you are included. I can only write if i beleive my letter will serve some useful purpose - that sounds pretty arrogant i know, but i cannot reconcile what he did with who you beleive he is. I need to understand that transformation - if it is possible then Jose has an opportunity to use his experience for good - my letter is an attempt to find out if he is willing to do that - if Jose has changed from wanting those girls dead to a beautiful person, if his mind has changed - only he knows how that happened - he can use that to change other minds. My concern is that he hasnt done so already - why no apology, that would be the first thing i would have expected him to do. it should be the first thing he expects of himself. The reason this letter is taking so long is that this will only work if he trusts me and my motives - thats tough to do in a letter. It may not work at all - if so then i will be dissapointed - a little for me (we all have an ego) - but more for him - and most for Jennifer Ertman and Elizabeth Pena. best regards Bob.

Left by bob on April 2nd, 2006 at 9:09 pm

Candice, your an idiot, and Bob quit being a suck ass! That filth deseves to die! The real tragedy is that that our tax paying dollars are being spent to house his ass. Frankly, a bullet is much cheaper!
Who are we to judge!!! Do not bullshit . Everyone judges, im not saying its right, but its true! Candice judged Bob & Chris, Bob judged Candice, and Jose the Fuck Head judged and punished those innocent girls! So dont give us that bullshit line “Who are we to judge! Oh and Candice who cares about your “Im a single mom going through college” story…..NEXT!!!!! You obviously do not have a man in your life because you cling on to your inmate friend.
Oh by the way, I hope your paying for college because if your getting financial aide WHAT ANOTHER WAIST OF OUR TAX DOLLARS! Criminal justice….. and your befriending a convict…. thats bright.

Left by Chris on April 14th, 2006 at 5:09 pm

Chris, to disagree with Candace is fair enough - wouldnt be worth using this site if we all agreed - Candace is an easy target cos she is in the minority aand this is a particularly emotive subject. I respect her courage - I dont understand her faith in Jose, but i am willing to try to understand by talking to him. If Jose Medellin is redeemed, we can all learn from his transformation. You and others may have no interest in what appears impossible - i do - without Candace i wouldnt have considered such a possibility. but i am impressed by people with faith that is not born of fear - you and others can make nasty personal comments - you sense weakness,vulnerability and you attack without a care - you are right and therefore superior - i am proud to say i learned something important to me from Candace - one of those things is its ok to be vulnerable, unsure aand even appear weak cos you havent got all the answers - what have you learned Chris. Suck Ass Bob.

Left by bob on April 14th, 2006 at 9:41 pm

Bob,
Instead of trying to tap into the mind of a murderer, try yoga, meet people (that are not incarcerated), enjoy life! Do not waist your time on this issue. Only god knows if Jose is truly redeemed, therefore, we as humans shouldn’t bother with the impractical. You say you are interested in “what appears impossible”, so take a biology classes, research cures for diseases, do something that will benefit the greater good of man kind. Forget the muderer!!!! This site is for discussion only, do not allow it to consume you!! Focus on the beauty of life; do not get mixed up with the trash. More importantly DO NOT ALLOW YOURSELF TO BE DECEIVED BY DESPERATE PEOPLE!!! Grow a pair bro.

Chris

Left by Chris on April 17th, 2006 at 12:09 pm

Chris,
I really don’t know why I waste my time with people such as yourself, but just for “shits and grins” I’ll give it a shot. You sound to me like a very uneducated man yourself (or wait - since we’re throwing jabs - are you even a man……because you sound like an idiotic child with all of your foul language and foolish remarks). As for you and Bob, just because I believe in someone that most of society wouldn’t doesn’t make me an easy target or weak. In fact, it gives me something that somone such as yourself is lacking. I have taken the time to understand this person and the situation in its entirety (I can almost bet that you haven’t). You are just a lonely person with no life that feeds off of trying to cut others down. To have your own opinion is one thing, but to attack me the way you did shows that your mindless and very childish. The fact that I have a child, work full time and go to school full time only makes you jealous of me from what I see. You have no right to cut me down and critisize. Look at all of the defense lawyers out there…do you knock on them too b/c afterall, they do defend the “fuck heads” as you call them? Real intelligent, Chris. Tell you what, go back to school and learn some proper English and then we can talk. Having a conversation with someone such as yourself is a disgrace to me and all other like me. And just for the record…I do have a man and a great man at that. Believe it or not, he has never had any run-ins with the law. He is a law abiding citizen and a very successful man…..so as you say….NEXT! And I hope this one really pisses you off……I get financial aide so kiss my ass!!

Left by Candace on April 17th, 2006 at 1:19 pm

Candice,
Save the grammatical comments for your English Comp. teacher. Were not writing critiques or essays here!
My opinion of you is what it is so don’t get so worked up. Who cares what others think, right.
Why is it that you have to continue to add credibility to yourself? Do you need reassurance in your life mam??
By the way here are some disappointing facts for you… I too wk full time and attend college full time. Difference is I pay for it myself and I was smart enough to pursue my degree before becoming a parent. Jealous of you my dear…. I do not think so.
And do not ever compare yourself to a lawyer! you see their JOB is to associate with criminals, I doubt they do it for friendship or to have a pen pal.
You getting financial aide doesn’t upset me (even if it is a waste)….after all, it is for the needy.
Heres one for laughs….I guarantee the guy you are with is not your child’s father! is he?
Chris

Left by Chris on April 17th, 2006 at 4:08 pm

Exactly what I expected of you Chris; mindless senseless bullshit. You’re an idiot! Plain and simple, there it is. Sorry but you are what you are. Call me needy, call me dumb. As anyone can clearly see, you’re a lonely pathetic person and you thrive on cutting others down (as I said before). And grammatical comments……well honey, if you too go to school you need to go back to basic English, and I’m sorry that you feel intimindated by my comments. At least my financial aide is being put to good use. You, on the other hand, are most likely wasting your money. Find a new hobby and don’t bother writing back as your comments will be overlooked and not replied to. Glad we got to have this chat though. And to answer your question, no, I am NOT with my daughter’s father. Ever heard of DIVORCE dipshit? Normal, successful people do it EVERY DAY….and I’ll even bet people who would agree with yor dumbass on this Jose situation have gone through divorce as well. NEXT!!!

Left by Candace on April 19th, 2006 at 3:50 am

so kiss my ass!!

Kiss your own ass, candy. Medellin will be executed. There is nothing you or anyone else can do to stop it. Unfortunately, his death will be painless and quick — unlike how he murdered Jennifer Ertman and Elizabeth Pena.

Left by Anonymous on April 19th, 2006 at 11:24 am

Candice,
Before I end our silly exchanges, here are some final facts for you to ponder:
- guess what? I’m not a man!
-me lonely… the 2 karat diamond on my left hand begs to differ.
-I have plenty off hobbies but pissing you off was so worth the few minutes it took.
-Intimidated by you…..Hardly! The truth is I just wanted to fuck with your head… I like pissing off you pathetic women that live off of your “im a strong single mother and I need to keep reminding the world about it” bullshit.
Last but not least….
-retake english that would be stupid after all I’m a semester away from acquiring my BS in nursing…but here’s a thought… maybe I’ll continue my education so that I’ll be the one to stick the needle in Jose’s arm!
Truth is your still and always will be a fucking idiot for supporting that child raping murderer!
It was fun bitch.
-Chris

Left by Chris on April 19th, 2006 at 2:09 pm

Pre School,

Lower recidivism? Your joking right? You want us to allow him to marry, get a college degree and let him out.

medellin doesn’t need those things. He is going to be exterminated so that other little girls are safe. Forget the thug hugging crap. I would agree were he a thief or maybe an arsonist, but a rapist and murderer. Get real!

Left by Ben on April 21st, 2006 at 4:53 pm

Lotta

Perhaps the fact that he admits his guilt gets lost in translation from English to Swedish. OR, perhaps you are another dumb scandanavian groupie.

Left by Ben on April 21st, 2006 at 5:02 pm

Candace, Samantha, lotta,

Wow, jose Medellin is very lucky that so many women find the anal, oral and vaginal rape of 2 young girls followed by their strangulation and ’stomping’ to death, such a good reason to befriend a man. Its nice to see that whilst old war vets sit alone, cancer patients suffer without families, children die of HIV as orphans…. you 3 have got your panties all hot over this guy double killer. You must all be so proud of your selves.

Left by Ben on April 21st, 2006 at 5:05 pm

I like how justus and candace are battling it out as to who is the most “educated.” Now, that is pathetic! lol!

Left by jerry on April 21st, 2006 at 5:07 pm

i didn’t mock just us as I presumed she was a kid playing on her moms PC. Is she for real?

Left by Ben on April 21st, 2006 at 5:14 pm

All the murderer lovers are immature and bizarre. These two are especially funny in that they have such a high and undeserved opinion of their intellect.

Left by jerry on April 21st, 2006 at 5:17 pm

Did I read Candy’s comments correctly? She scrounges money from the state to fund her writing to a convicted killer. I get the impression she fills the other 2 hours a week doing a basic English course. Wow high brow baby. It may impress her child killing friend, but it is hardly going to cut the mustard with anyone not sat in a cell.

Left by Ben on April 21st, 2006 at 5:21 pm

I don’t remember. And frankly, I don’t want to reread her posts. They were painfully crazy the first time I read them. It appears what Chris was complaining about.

Left by jerry on April 21st, 2006 at 5:24 pm

Oh, one of the nuts, I don’t remember which one, thinks he’s getting out some day because he’s innocent. lol!

Left by jerry on April 21st, 2006 at 5:25 pm

So innocent that ven his pen pals requests state his guilt.

I would not be so bad if these clingons did not deny the truth. If they were to say, “Ok, he’s guilty as sin, I have an uneventful life, attaching myself to this man for a few years will liven it up a little” Yes, I would still see them as scum, but at least not as liars AND scum.

Left by Ben on April 21st, 2006 at 5:28 pm

That’s like the other nuts who were going on and on about some murderer being innocent because he was never there and had an alibi.
His entire defense, however, was that he burglarized the guys house, they fought over a gun, and he accidentally shot him (also a lie).

As far as having an uneventful life — tough. No excuse for imagining you are some legal eagle who’s going to spring some sadistic murderer from deathrow.

Left by jerry on April 21st, 2006 at 5:41 pm

Ben and Jerry - impressive double act - trash everyone who disagrees with you, apart from Chris ,her contribution was really high brow - would you do it face to face - you probably would. Maybe you two can help me - the question is - what motivated Jose Medellin to do what he did- no i dont want to hear cos hes a rapist murdering scumbag - that is not an answer,is it. You may have to think about this but i am confident you two may have an insight. i pose the question cos i need an answer and this is supposed to be a site to discuss, isnt it. Love your ice cream - Bob.

Left by bob on April 22nd, 2006 at 2:23 am

Sorry Bob,

I will have another look at Chris for you.

What motivated him to do it was gang mentality. He wasn’t strong enough to walk away when his ‘black and white gang’ suggested a double rape and murder. Whether he was the initial ‘idea’guy’ or someone who simply joined in, will never be clear to us. What we know however, was that he took part in multiple rape, degradation and strangling followed by stomping on their necks and faces. The result, two innocent girls spent their last hours in the most horrific circumstances imaginable.

So dealing only with facts, we know he had a history of violence. We know he participated in this crime we know he MAY have been the instigator. We know that whilst in prison, the Black and white gang were involved in various ofences against prison officers.

So, the question for me is, what do we do with him now? We could release him back into society hoping he is a ‘changed man’ and that next time he would act differently. Could be possible, but I wouldn’t want to test hat theory on my daughter. We could leave him in prison for ever, unsure of the purpose that would serve. Or, we could stick to the initial punishment handed down by the judge who was able to see all the evidence and sit in a room face to face with Medellin.

I’m sorry if you think I trashed a person, I didn’t, I simply trashed idiotic ideas. I will have know sympathy for those who make a hero out of a killer. Sorry if you think thats wrong.

Left by Ben on April 22nd, 2006 at 9:02 am

No, Bob, I trash people’s idiotic comments. And since you started out of the box insulting me, why would you think I would help you with anything? Why he did what he did is irrelevant in that it is not a legal defense. Nor, could it ever be construed as mitigation unless one is a real nut. Are you a real nut, Bob? I’m starting to sense that you are.

Left by jerry on April 22nd, 2006 at 9:22 am

I do not know why these people have sympathy for killers. Is Bob another joker? I thought he was being serious. looks like I wasted my time attempting to help him

Left by Ben on April 22nd, 2006 at 9:26 am

He’s just another anti with weak arguments.

Left by jerry on April 22nd, 2006 at 10:11 am

Ben and Jerry - you boys are being too sensitive - i didnt insult anyone, did i. Trash someones comments, you trash them - theres no difference - dont make excuses, your judgement is subjective so justify it. My question has nothing to do with mitigation or his defense - It is an attempt to discuss how and why these things happen.The group dynamic of a gang is a factor - if you look at the details of what occured - Cantu (the leader), his initial thought was to beat up Jenny Ertman, who he mistook for a boy - Medellin beat him to it by grabbing Elizabeth Pena, not macho to beat up a girl so he grabbed her with rape in mind - during the attack Medellins younger brother urged Jose and Cantu to leave, Cantu urged him to join inaand he eventually did - at the end Cantu whispered the girls should be killed - Medellins rreaction was to try to kill Elizabeth with his bare hands etc etc - so Medellin was the instigator , he wanted to go a step further than Cantu at each opportunity - so we have the group dynamic (Medellin competing with Cantu) that escalated the violence.To do this Medellin had to be capable of this degree of violence. So what gave Medellin this capability - what inside him drove it. i am a real nut Bob.

Left by bob on April 28th, 2006 at 7:26 pm

Candace,

I don’t know if you still read this but I find it hilarious that you and Jose are “friends”. Lets think about this - if he were out of prison and you knew what he confessed to (rape, sodomy, torure, murder), would you take your daughter to a bar b q with him? I don’t think so. If he is such a great guy (ha ha, that’s pretty funny!), would you take a walk in the park with him at night knowing what he does to girls who are walking through the park at night? You’re ridiculous. It takes everything in me not to wish that something horrible would happen to someone that you care about just so you could truly understand the pain and misery that Medellin and his friends put those girls’ loved ones through. Maybe then you would feel sympathy for the RIGHT people in a situation like this.

Bob,

I don’t get you at all - you want to know the reason behind it as if that makes it all worth something. If this happened to your wife or daughter and the rapist/murderers told you why, would it make you slap your forehead and say “Wow, that makes sense! I feel so much better now - let em out!” - I don’t think so. What he did knocks him out of the category of human being - he is a monster and the only safe place for the rest of us to have him is 6 feet under.

Left by Tori on May 4th, 2006 at 4:36 pm

Tori,
To answer your question, yes, I would feel safe enough to take my family to a b-b-q with him and I would definitely take a walk with him in the park. I don’t expect you to understand where I’m coming from or anyone else for that matter, but what truly amazes me is how you think you have the world and all man-kind figured out. GET A CLUE, HUN!! You do NOT have all of the facts surrounding this case nor have you taken the time to understand it all. You’re jut someone who thinks that you have the right to sit around talking like you know everything and you want me to admit that you’re right. I do NOT agree with you. Think what you want; I am far too busy to continue to correspond with people such as yourself. And just for the record, that was not a jab at you, it was just a fact. Thanks for your “two-cents” though, it was greatly appreciated!

Left by Candace on May 4th, 2006 at 6:34 pm

Crazy Bob: I’ve been called a number of things but overly sensitive is not one of them. Yes, you did attempt to insult me and Ben, so don’t be a hypocrite and deny it. Yes, your question pertains to mitigation because it is irrelevant to the imposition of the death penalty in this case. Don’t be a hypocrite and deny that you do not want it imposed in this case no matter how horrendous and unjustified the behavior. Your reinteratioon of the facts and the spin you gave them is rather sickening. Find a better hobby then trying to pretend you care about what motivates sadistic murderers.

Left by jerry on May 5th, 2006 at 2:02 pm

Tori: Insightful comments. Thank you.

Candace: You get a clue. The more you open your yap, the crazier you sound. It’s always comforting to know that those for abolishment are as nutty as you. Thank you for contributing your ineffectiveness to the abolishment of the death penalty. Us pro-dp people, couldn’t do it without all your help. lol!

Left by jerry on May 5th, 2006 at 2:07 pm

Candy,

What facts do you have that the resy of us aren’t privy to? Oh yes, the murderers letters, in between describing touching you up I am sure he tells you how he was ‘forced’ to do it etc etc.

Frabkly, if you take his words as ‘facts’ your brain is as dead as you would be were you to decide to take that walk in the park with him. Medellin must see you for an idiot too, given that he doesn’t deny his guilt anywhere else.

Left by Ben on May 6th, 2006 at 10:02 am

Tell you what, Ben. Why don’t YOU find me some facts regarding this case. Show me where you’re getting your info. Come on, don’t be shy….just do it. Consider this a challenge. You down?

Left by Candace on May 8th, 2006 at 9:17 pm

You mean like court transcripts of the trial? Because the prosecution did a pretty damning job of assembling and presenting facts against the inhuman monster you call “Jose”.

The most damning being his own damed confession. That’s a pretty solid fact, I’d say.

The best part of finding “facts” about Jose, is that they are all available as part of the Open Records Act.

Left by Robbie on May 8th, 2006 at 9:29 pm

Ah Robbie, I thought I was going to have the pleasure of humiliating this idiot once and for all, but I see you have robbed me of that chance.

Then again, the statements of medellin then, the statements of his friends…… none of them will count for Candy….. unless its written in his fair hand to HER, she wont believe it. After all, they have a ’special bond’ he wouldn’t lie. He tells her everything, she’s not like the ‘other penfrinds’ They are soul mates blah blah blah

Candy, you bae everything on his little love notes don’t you hon? Give me your address and I’ll write you. In between platitudes I’ll tell you the earth if flat and no doubt have you believing it within the week. As long as I make you feel special huh?

Left by Ben on May 10th, 2006 at 12:56 am

How old are you Ben? Tell me whatever you want but stop being a jerk off and find the facts. You’re real good at talking shit but I see no proof. You’re slackin’……why does that not surprise me though??

Left by Candace on May 11th, 2006 at 8:38 pm

You want me to reprint his confession and those of his friends here? Can’t you access them yourself or are you wanting a translation.

Casting aspersions on my age does not change the fact that you ignore evidence, even his own confessions and yet attempt to take the moral high ground. I could have sen through you when I was 12, so if you want to think of me as 12 go ahead

Left by Ben on May 12th, 2006 at 1:15 pm

Yo Candace? You can take your pissy little 2 year degree (with your fancy financial aid*snap*) and shove it straight up your ghetto ass. Clearly, you are too stupid to sit at the grown-up’s table here. You are so far out of your league, it’s a joke.

Here’s a little tip. Women like you are made to prey on. Medellin marked you and you, like the dull-eyed lemming that you are, gobbled up the bait. If you only knew what a douchebag he has made out of you.

Personally, as a taxpayer, I’m fully supportive of you hooking up with rapists in prison. At least on death row he can’t knock you up and burden the state with raising your litter.

Before you try to pull rank, I’m a third year law student. Law school. That would be where you would like to go if you had the intellect (or financial aid *snap*) to actually get in.

So you keep working on that fancy associates degree. As for us, we are counting the days until the maggots begin their feast on that subspecies named Medellin.

Late, you dumbass half-wit.

Left by Carter on May 14th, 2006 at 4:20 pm

carter, looks like you got the measure of candy lmao

Left by Ben on May 14th, 2006 at 6:53 pm

Again, Carter and Ben…all you can do is talk a lot of shit with nothing to back it up. As for Carter, I don’t believe a word of all of the bullshit you’re writing. Just makes you look really fucking stupid. Mr. “Law Student”, shouldn’t you be studying instead of wrtitng to dumbass half-wits like me? If you are indeed a law student, I firmly believe you will not ever use it to do anything worth talking about. And just remember, you started somewhere too, so just b/c I’m at my Associate level does not mean that I won’t make it as far or further than you. Frankly, I KNOW I will be something more than your judgmental opinionated ass will ever be. Fucking loser.

Left by Candace on May 14th, 2006 at 8:53 pm

Candy:

As an attorney, Carter will be expected to educate the public on the law. Part of educating the public on the law, is to slap down dumbasses like you.

Carry on, Carter!

Left by jerry on May 15th, 2006 at 10:37 am

Hey Candy,

I love when someone gets so soundly beaten in a debate that they have to resort to bad language, trouble is, its going to get worse…….go on, have a stab at the C word, you know you want to……… ok, it will leave your pen friend as guilty as sin, but it will at least prove my theory that only the most base and grubby of people would write to him.

PS, isn’t tomorrow the day fellow child rapist and murderer O’Brien finally gets what he deserves. Since you have a penchant for me who murder little girls I take it you will be even more hysterical tomorrow than usual. We will indulge you though Candy….. when you grow up you will understand.

PS, was the comment about Carter looking ‘fucking stupid’ supposed to be ironic? If not, you should know that you referring to him in those terms was the equivalent of Your friend Medellin lecturing Mother theresa on Moral values. Nice one Candy, you really are hilarious.

Left by Ben on May 15th, 2006 at 11:38 am

This page has grown long enough. I’m closing this particular thread to new comments.

If you want to continue the debate, I’ve written a new post on the first of Elizabeth Pena and Jennifer Ertman’s killers to be executed, Sean Derrick O’Brien.

You remember Jennifer and Elizabeth, don’t you Candace? They’re the forgotten victims of your beloved Death Row boyfriends.

Left by Robbie on May 15th, 2006 at 11:45 am

[...] One blogger pointed out that the Supreme Court, which was thinking of letting Jose Medellin get away with this murder on the grounds of insufficient consular access, had already let two of his accomplices in the same rapes and murders escape the death penalty because they were under 18 at the time of the murder. [...]

Left by VDARE.com: 05/26/05 - Bush Caves To Mexican Murder Lobby, Orders Retrial For Jose Medellin on November 16th, 2006 at 4:59 am

I know its a bit late to send this but, the whole situation is truly sad! I feel for the girls families and there pain and memories, but the guys family also lost there children for having bad judgments. I went to school with 1 of them and met almost all of them at friends gatherings. I thankk god everyday I didnt go out with Peter the night he asked me out back in April of 1993….. I was horrified by what happened months later!

Left by I KNEWTHE GUILTYPARTY! on June 26th, 2007 at 9:49 pm

What is the status of the Medellin case now?
Thanks

Left by Hal von Luebbert on July 1st, 2007 at 4:53 pm

I wish we could get these fucking immigrants out of our country. You do the crime in our country you do the time even if it’s death!

This story makes me very angry. I live in Washington State and we have so many immigrants from Mexico here. About 5 years ago, I took my daughter and her friends to the local mall…..we were followed around by about five of them and they followed us out to the parking lot and started to follow us home…it gave me the creeps and I did some fast lane changes and turns to lose them. This story is heartbreaking and I feel for both of the families. As a parent myself I don’t know how they are going on with their lives. They all deserve death.

What a horrific crime that should have never taken place.

Left by sheryl on October 6th, 2007 at 11:04 pm

And ‘ol George Dubya Bush wants to save these guys- really! Can you believe it? Well, you should- check it out.

Left by Dudeman Franconi on October 7th, 2007 at 9:53 am

Let’s make this quite clear so that even all of the whining liberals can understand it. No one says that Medellin should have been denied access to his consulate. The government cannot deny access or block access. He never asked for access to the Mexican consulate. Thus, the hyperventilation above about “what if you are arrested in Mexico” does not apply at all.

It is past time for this criminal to go to hell, where he belongs.

Left by Matt on October 9th, 2007 at 10:36 am

I voted for Bush twice but I would like to know ifwould he be trying to please the mexican goverment if it was his daugthers that was raped and murder .I don’t believe he would give a damn about any international law trying to tell his state what to do. this murderer spent most of his life in the U.S enjoying are benfits now he should be made to pay for breaking are laws and for the rest of the illegals over here on death row you should stayed in mexico and done your murderin and raping in your on country .I hope everyone of you burn in hell.It is a shame when are goverment wants to give you more rights than you give these two girls. Please don’t forget Jennifer Ertman and Elizebeth Pena

Left by Bobby on October 9th, 2007 at 11:10 am

I just heard, this a.m., on Fox News that the Jose Medellin case is on appeal to the United States Supreme Court re the issue of the right to have a foreign consulate present, even though, Miranda was timely given.

I came to this blog to discuss the sovereignty of our American Judicial system!

American sovereignty does not appear to be at issue here. Basically all I read was the back an forth bickering by criminal justice students( particularly Candace) re Medellin’s innocence and her heart felt grief for the murderer.

Candace has apparently concluded that Medellin is innocent. It is my understanding that Medellin, on this appeal, is only addressing the consulate issue. Yet Candace, this criminal justice student, has concluded he is innocent.

Because Medellin lost in the lower courts the issue will now be heard in our highest court.

The question is will our Supreme Court bow to Mexico again? How long will America submit to foreign powers? How long will America hold illegals in higher regard than bona fide American citizens?

I sincerely hope that Chief Justice Roberts will, given this opportunity, definitely deny the Medellin appeal and definitely uphold the rights of American sovereignty.

In conclusion, I heard the grief in Mr. Ertman’s voice this morning, (father of Jennifer) and my heart goes out to him…

NOT to Medellin, No…not to the illegal Medellin the perpetrator of this evil, brutal crime. NO …not to Medellin who was given and took advantage of our American justice system to the fullest extent! Indeed, we are still paying for him to try to subvert our American sovereignty.

Ann…JD retired

Left by Ann on October 9th, 2007 at 11:45 am

This is a response to Bobby… re Bush…

Bobby I too no longer support Bush…His support of the Medellin appeal is more than the final straw!

The following would be very informative re Bush:

Bush is in an alliance with Mexico and Canada and that is precisely why he will not controll the illegal problem. It is not in the furtherance of his plans!

Please read up on the Nafta super highway, it’s a done deal. This super highway goes through Texas, from the Mexican border to Canada.

It appears that Bush wants to consolidate America into one North American continent.

I find it very ODD that the news media is not reporting this…If you want to know more you can get the WHISTLEBLOWER magazine at…WORLDNETDAILY.COM…ask for the issue “Premeditated Merger.”

This is truely shocking and I hope the word gets out.

Ann…JD retired

Left by Ann on October 9th, 2007 at 12:15 pm

definitively*

Left by Ann on October 9th, 2007 at 12:24 pm

This guy needs to be nuked. I realize he is a murderer and needs to go away. However; if we violate the international laws with this piece of … “dirt” then it opens the doors for the other countries to violate them against US. So we give this “human” another hearing. Listen to him whine that he was a kid then and has grown up. The fathers reply will be that this “Human” HAD the chance to grow up, where the girls did NOT. Make it legal and then out of the court room and into the lab for needle work. BYE BYE Jose. If he goes free or gets out of the death sentence, if I were him I would be very concerned about my mortality, other inmates do not like child rapists.

Give these parents peace .. nuke this guy now and get it over, he is an admitted child rapist and murderer, along with all the others, why are we paying to have these dead men housed?

Left by Red on October 9th, 2007 at 12:56 pm

I hope Jose gets released, goes over to see Candace, rapes and kills her, then gets shot in the forehead by police. There- fixed all that bullshit.

Left by red baron on October 9th, 2007 at 3:33 pm

Since Jose Medellin is back in the news, I’m closing this thread as it’s getting pretty long.

Please continue the discussion on this new thread here:

http://urbangrounds.com/2007/10/09/execute-jose-medellin/

Left by Robbie on October 9th, 2007 at 6:30 pm

Well it’s August 5th 2008 about 6:30 pm Huntsville TX time and Jose Medellin should be dead but he’s not. I bet the bastards will give him a stay.

I have followed this case since 1993 and I think it’s time to put it to rest. We need to have the law changed back so the other two that had their sentence reduced will face death.

Peter Cantu your next you sorry S.O.B..

Left by Michael Ross on August 5th, 2008 at 7:12 pm

I have to say, I totally agree with the death penalty, and a person deserves certain punishments. But what really pisses me off the most is the language that some people use when describing others. Picture your son committing this horrible offense. Would you then feel the same way? I chose to no longer live in the U.S. (and yes, I’m from Houston) But as others have said, I live in Mexico, if im even falsely accused of a crime, I can look forward to a good 5 years before it’s remotely resolved. People do bad things, but I was always told our laws were in place to provide a fair and equal justice system. When we choose not to follow those procedures, no matter what, WE would be the first to stand up and say “this isn’t right”. So no matter what he did, how angry we feel, another human life is going to be lost, and as a fellow human, I think that sucks!!!! God forbid I ever find myself in a situation that is so beyond my control. But remember, nobody wins here, and some poor mother, like Jennifer and Elizabeths, is also suffering. Yes he did this, but he will be gone, the only ones left to pick up the pieces are the remaining families, We should ALL respect that!

Left by Robert MacMillan on August 5th, 2008 at 8:00 pm

I think he’ll die tonight. I would be really surprised if Texas backed down. These guys show what real cowards they are at the end. And the people who support these worthless bastards are just as sick. Adios Jose. I sincerely hope you make some peace with your maker.

Left by Mary on August 5th, 2008 at 8:03 pm

so I live in oregon and can’t find info on this execution. can anyone email me with some updated information on the execution. thanks!

Left by krystle on August 5th, 2008 at 8:27 pm

I agree, I can’t believe someone would want these guys to live or even care what the parents of these animals think. Apparently they know nothing of the case and how brutal it was. They should go to http://www.murdervictims.com/Voices/jeneliz.html
to get more familluar with the case. That isn’t even all of the dirty details of what the men did.

I think they have until midnight to give Medillin his bedtime medicine.

Left by Michael Ross on August 5th, 2008 at 8:35 pm

Nothing much to know on the execution. They raped and brutaly killed two two girls and now they must die. Some folks don’t think they should die but most Texans do.

There were five defendants one executed, two on death row and two more with life sentences. You can go to http://www.murdervictims.com/Voices/jeneliz.html and get more information. Also do searches on the murderers names.

Left by Michael Ross on August 5th, 2008 at 8:46 pm

Ok, I see your ideas are so biased, why the hell wouldnt you care about the parents? Did they go out and do this? Can you imagine what life must be like knowing YOUR child has done something so terrible? When your neighbors look at you like this is all your fault? Yes, Absolutely, He deserves his punishment. But I dare anyone of you to say you NEVER did anything bad or was ashamed of! When you use language like bastard, asshole, whatever, You are actually showing that YOU are no better than “the trash” you speak of. You´re trying to prove that you are the superior race to anyone who runs afoul of the law. Thats just wrong! And I for think that this is EXACTLY the reason the U.S. is so hated. People get off your one track minds and try “reading” what people say. I never defended him in any way, I just “suggested” that there were no winners and the people who are left behind in all instances should be respected. I was taught that what made us good, was our ability to understand situations and be open to debate. Gee, Guess I had bad parents too! You totally missed the point…oh wait..i get it, Let me ask you this…..is it because he’s Mexican? If you are so hard assed against criminals, would i be wroing in assuming you never watched the movies about Ted Bundy, J.W. Gacy etc….Is it ok to glamorize others who in reality committed the worst crimes ever.. I’m still missing something here, arent I. And yes, I know the case VERY well, it was in my neighborhood. so dont treat me like you are the ONLY informed person here…..

Left by Robert MacMillan on August 5th, 2008 at 8:50 pm

You called the man trash, unbelievable. Your not as liberal as I thought.

Just think god it wasn’t you daughter.

Justice For All

Left by Michael Ross on August 5th, 2008 at 9:09 pm

Jose Medellin was slated for execution today and he has sought pen pals. His self-description makes him seem likeable, perhaps even charming. He dismisses the crimes that sent him to Death Row with the rather innocuous statement: I’m where I’m at because I made an adolescent choice.

Adolescents make a lot of foolish choices, These seldom result in prison time or the threat of execution. Did Jose fail to eat his vegetables or was is it something worse?

About 15 years ago, two innocent girls made a seemingly innocent foolish choice in walking along a path where Jose and his fellow gang members were hanging out. One successfully ran away but her friend was seized by Jose and friends that included Derrick Sean O’Brien and Peter Cantu plus some younger boys. The girl who was held captive cried for help and her friend returned. Both were gang raped for over an hour. This ‘adolescent choice’ was followed by another one. This was to murder the two girls to eliminate the possibility that they might testify against them. Regrettably, none of the punks had a gun so vicious beating and strangulation were substituted. The youngest member of the gang was sent away before the murder phase of the crime. There was ample forensic evidence at the crime scene to assure that no innocent persons were falsely accused. When the bodies were discovered days later, Derrick O’Brien was seen at the scene and smiling happily. He obviously remembered the great time he had several days before. He has had his gurney ride but Jose has tried to use his status as a Mexican (he has been here since age three) to beat the needle.

Jose stole jewelry from the dead girls and gave hit to a female friend. He bragged of the ‘virgin blood’ on his clothes. He is obviously a particularly vile hunk of subhuman excrement who will make Hell the worse for his presence but should not be cumbering the earth.

Will he successfully evade justice again?

Left by Arthur Downs on August 5th, 2008 at 9:10 pm

give the bastard the big fix, and put him out of our misery

Left by hereand there on August 5th, 2008 at 9:24 pm

well nice of you to focus on “trash” and nothing else. Why is that? I can see that there is no point in trying to persuade you that my consideration is for ALL the innocent victims. True, Jennifer and Elizabeth went through an ordeal that I would never want to imagine ANYONE going through. Unfortunately (as strange as it sounds) they are at the very least no longer suffering, if Medellin is executed, he to is no longer suffering. My point was…and is, the survivors (3 plus families) are the ones who need to be respected. They are truly the ones who have to live with this each and every day. And, I’m sorry to say, his family are victims as well. Im sure they didnt pack him a lunch and say here honey, now go kill. Your absolutely right, if it were my daughter, i would want him executed, and even though its not, i do think he should be. That was never an issue. Thanks for a relatively good debate, it would have been nicer if you expanded more, but I’m not going to waste any more of my beautiful evening in MEXICO for you! dont worry…with what 370 or so texas death row inmates, you’ll have a long time with this!!!!

Left by Robert MacMillan on August 5th, 2008 at 9:30 pm

To Krystle: it’s on CNN.com if you want to read more about it. And on Woai.com in San Antonio, TX. I’m sure if you search any Texas news you will find something on this.

And as much as I would like to see this monster put to death for his crimes, I have a weird feeling Texas is going to back down. They’ve made a statement that they are in a “holding pattern”. That to me tells me that we are yet again going to let these girls down. First we let them down by changing this law to not allow any minors to be put to death. BS! If you’re old enough to do the crime, then you’re old enough to be put to death for the crime. And now we may let the girls down yet again by allowing this man to sponge off the system even longer. The world court should have no say so on how we prosecute our criminals and those that creep into our country from other countries. I read his pen pal site and was sick to my stomach. He tries to play this off like he’s some nice guy. He’s a sick bastard. He’s still breathing our air. He’s still getting all the perks of prison… his own words, reads, worksout, plays, and watches tv. Those girls won’t ever have that chance. I wish we would put in an express lane for cases like this!

I may stand corrected, it appears they have signed his death warrant. Cnn is reporting this now…. only can wait and see

Left by texas mamma on August 5th, 2008 at 10:14 pm

Good Night you piece of shit, thank God Texas had the balls to wipe this bitch off the face of the earth…………now send his bitch ass back to Mexico

Left by BD on August 5th, 2008 at 10:46 pm

Who am I say what he deserves. I know what I feel and I hope my god forgives me. What everyone seems to dismiss is 1. what he did and 2. he was here illegally. I do not believe all illegals are killers and rapist but we have to consider, when one chooses to dismiss our laws for what ever the reason may be, better life etc. what exactly does that leave them with? This country was created by immigrants no one discounts this but we have laws to be followed for a reason and everyone who cries for the rights of illegal aliens seem to forget what our founding fathers did for us. All the articles I have read NYT’s etc seem to gloss over the nature of his crime and cry for the fact that he is an illegal alien denied his rights. But what rights would those be exactly when he was not here legally? Is just very curious to me how so many individuals can so much empathy for this man. Is it the man or their cause. I do hope it is the later and hope you all find a better poster boy for your fight.
a

Left by Anonymous on August 5th, 2008 at 10:54 pm

For Robert who thinks that Medillen’s family were victims as well, do some research. His family was not able to see him for a number of years because they were caught planning his ESCAPE.

I hope Jose is burning in Hell right about now.

This is from the perspective of a Mexican-American who was the victim of an assault with a deadly weapon by a Mexican national, during an attempted robbery at my job. Luckily, I survived.

Left by Pete Hake on August 5th, 2008 at 11:02 pm

What happened to Candy? I guess she finally got a clue.

I am a father with two daughters and this case makes me ill.

I will sleep better tonight knowing this animal is dead. I am only sorry he did not suffer.

God bless Teaxs.

Left by Bob on August 6th, 2008 at 12:01 am

Like comment sections on most conservative blogs, this one seems to be rife with ignorance, hatred, and an overabundance of really poor grammar. Medellin is dead and honestly, 99% of us liberals could give a shit less. I followed this case since it happened in 1993 and if anyone deserved the death penalty, this turd surely would be on the top of the list. Personally, I think it would have been a greater punishment to let him rot in an 8X6 cell for another 25 years. It certainly would have been cheaper. But I digress.
What really bothers me is how enthused you people seem to kill someone. Not just this ass-clown who was obviously guilty, but anyone suspected of a violent crime. Given the death row reversal rate in Dallas County alone, this “let God sort’em out” mentality with Republicans is both perplexing and unnerving at the same time.
Has the Republican electorate become mainly uneducated poor whites led by a highly educated wealthy, white elite (like myself) who spoon feed disinformation to the masses via Fox News? Does anyone actually read or research issues anymore before they speak?
As a former staunch Republican, is really disheartening to see how far our party has fallen. Instead of the Elephant, the symbol should be a trailer or a starter home with a TV in the background.

Left by KF on August 6th, 2008 at 12:23 am

To KF:

You think that it’s a greater punishment to be sentenced to 25 years in jail than to be executed? Apparently few convicts agree with you; I’m confident that there has never been a case where anyone sentenced to jail time tried to appeal their sentence to be “reduced” to the death penalty.

On a personal level, I’m pleased that Medellin is no longer on this earth to hurt anyone else. His case is symbolic of everything wrong with the death penalty appeals system in our country, where endless appeals upon appeals are lodged based on no actual claims of innocence, and are based entirely on procedural grounds. It’s a great miscarriage of justice that a monster like Medellin has was given a chance to live as long as he did after his conviction.

Left by Kevin on August 6th, 2008 at 12:37 am

GOD BLESS TEXAS!! A STATE WITH BALLS.

GAME, SET, MATCH.

ROT IN HELL YOU COWARDLY, NO GOOD PIECE OF SHIT!!

Left by takebackUSA on August 6th, 2008 at 12:44 am

Glad he is dead- Finally a State not afraid to stick up for it’s rights and fight this globalistic bull. I have 2 daughters and I’m sure there are illegals who will now think TWICE before raping and killing American children, knowing they will pay for it with their lives. I’m sick of the illegals crying for their Mexico to stick up for (go back if you miss it so much) them and not surprised that Bush supported this worthless pig.

Left by JC on August 6th, 2008 at 12:56 am

When you come to the U.S.A. please respect our laws. And when you really screw up don’t cry foul that your international rights were abused….too bad. Jose Medellin was housed and fed long after he committed murder with our tax payers dollars. When we proove beyond a reasonable doubt via DNA or any other means…..

Be like the Nine slogan…..JUST DO IT. he had it coming a long time.

Left by whoperman on August 6th, 2008 at 1:29 am

Like an insignifigant “ant” the convicted Josie Medellicking has been crushed and no longer exist! Where will he buried so I can drop him something off (like a big fat healthy 5lb. turd on his tombstone)…

Left by Jay on August 6th, 2008 at 1:37 am

I think Jose should of thought about what he did before he did it those two girls were not spared so why should he, Candace put yourself in the girls place or one of your family members and then tell me how would you feel then? He came to the US and he will be treated by our laws and anybody else has problems then they need to take their asses back to their damn country and kill and rape their citizens! Yeah! he is gone and anyone else better think twice Don’t mess with TEXAS!

Left by vt on August 6th, 2008 at 2:05 am

i knew jennifer, we are the same age. her parents and mine were friends. i have memorys of us playing in the backyard and running around the house. i am so happy that piece of shit is finally dead, i just wish that they all could meet the same fate.

Cecil

Left by Cecil on August 6th, 2008 at 2:16 am

To Kevin above:

I think you may be wrong. Jeremy Strohmeyer, the 19 year-old who raped and murdered a 7 year-old girl in a Nevada casino restroom, confessed to the crime, and had insurmountable evidence of guilt, appealed his plea-bargain guilty plea after serving a year of life without parole asking for a new trial that could only end with a death penalty. His legal move clearly was a preference for death over life without parole. It would have been about the only possible outcome. He would have certainly been convicted at a new trial, and would have almost certainly gotten the death penalty. The only other outcome would have been the sentence he already had. His claim was that he preferred the death penalty over life without parole, if he was guilty (he now claims not to remember the crime). He claimed his original attorney coerced him and misinformed him about the plea bargain. Although his new attorney had to make a ruse about some intention to argue his innocence in order to justify a new trial, it was clear to everyone, including Strohmeyer, that a new trial would result in conviction and the death penalty. It was a slam dunk — no chance he was innocent. The evidence was overwhelming. Not conservative “overwhelming”–which means the guy looks slimy and the police say he did it, but really overwhelming. There was videotape showing him enter the restroom with the little girl and leaving a few minutes before the body was found. His friend who was with him saw him raping the girl in the stall and ran (which the video confirms). The timing on the video makes it impossible to blame the friend. And to top it off, he confessed to details only the killer could know (and later said he made it up).

He clearly wanted the death penalty after a year in prison with contemplation of the fact that he would never get out. He as much as said so.

Left by js on August 6th, 2008 at 2:31 am

This story was reported on BBC radio in the UK yesterday. Nowhere did they mention the US Supreme Court’s judgement that the Texas State legislature is under their jurisdiction and not that of the ICJ. Very much a “Look at those silly Americans” colonial attitude.

Texas did the right thing in executing Medellin in my mind. There was not a shred of doubt about his guilt. You do the crime you face the punishment. Were there doubts then an argument could be made. There weren’t.

Execution was the right decision. Respect to Texas for that.

I pray the families of the victims will find comfort and some degree of closure.

Left by Jamie From England on August 6th, 2008 at 3:49 am

If only the girls had the same kind of help that these perpetrators had throughout their incarceration…..

Why don’t people read up on the details of the case before posting?

What would you do if these girls were your sister, girlfriends and daughters ??

Would you be able to think and post in such rational and logical manner and present awesome arguments ?

Left by Just a thought on August 6th, 2008 at 3:59 am

Black, white, yellow, brown. All murderers and rapists are equally worthless.

Left by Scott on August 6th, 2008 at 4:57 am

Robert,
We understand his family are victims as well. Unfortunately they have to suffer just like the girls family has done for fifteen years. Don’t get mad at us because we don’t give a sh!! about his family. The fact is all five of them deserve to die for their crime; yes including the kid that was 14 at the time. He was there and participated in the rape.

Have fun in Mexico

Justice for All

Left by Michael Ross on August 6th, 2008 at 7:04 am

It’s amazing how much time, resources and money we waste on these pieces of shit.

Left by dave on August 6th, 2008 at 7:19 am

KF, this is for you.

I really enjoy your statement that the republicans are poor, white trash led by the wealthy elite.

Funny stuff there.

The Democrats control the country, and Michigan. The urban black and paid for life union voters keep them in office (Senator Levin, older than dirt and still making laws to take away what little I earn and gift to those that choose to do nothing).

The Democratic party is led by the richest of the rich and they stay in power by convincing the laziest of our society that they too can get more and do less.

Divisive politics and name calling is why our elected officials are virtually the same and our country is run by lobbyists and 10, or so, major corporations.

The “man” was here illegally and he participated in the most horrific crime any parent could ever imagine. I’m just sad it took so long to send him to his maker, a misfire from the arresting officer would have been a blessing.

Rather you “agree” with the death penalty or not, know this, if this was MY daughter, the animal would have been begging to be on death row as my punishment would have been quick in coming and painful to live through.

Some people just don’t DESERVE our time, nor our air. Jose was one of them.

Left by MichiganMinority on August 6th, 2008 at 7:51 am

I am against the death penalty but I do believe that a jail should be built in the furthest reaches of Alaska and there, the prisoners should live out their lives in absolute solitary confinement. Once convicted, they have no right to live among us.

Left by Tim on August 6th, 2008 at 7:58 am

Jay,

He will probablly be burried at Joe Byrd cemetery at the expense of tax payers.

http://www.langleycreations.com/photo/deathpenalty/huntsville/index.html

Left by Michael Ross on August 6th, 2008 at 8:21 am

Well, finally some justice, I belive if we start doing death penalties, the rapist, child molesters, killers will think twice about doing the “FUN” crime. Iam so sick of woring about my kids every time they go out and play, due to those sick bastards who get off in hurting young victims. Yes they go to prision, a few years later get out on good behaviour and there goes the safety of our children again. A rape of a child is unforgatable, we move on but they dont. And those whose families have to suffer after their child has been kidnaped and brutally killed, by some sick person. DEATH PENALTY….to protect our families.

Left by Maritza on August 6th, 2008 at 8:54 am

Ashes to ashes, dust to dust, Jose Medellin no longer be with us.

Two down and three to go. Your next Peter Cantu.

Left by Michael Ross on August 6th, 2008 at 9:12 am

I have to say that it makes me ill that all the ‘losers’ out there try to ’save’ this scum…making the families of these girls suffer so much more than they already have. This guy is total scum, not human. People like this Medellin are better off dead and hanging out in hell with all his buddies. having a great ole’ time with big Lu down there……The only shame in this whole thing should be aimed at the system that is set up that allows ‘excrement’ like this guy to live another 15 years after destroying so many people. I mean, does anybody think this is the only time this scum hurt people…come on…..

Left by Dale poniewaz on August 6th, 2008 at 9:28 am

Another useless piece of crap got what he deserved , there is no place on earth for these monsters.

Next is Peter , how long will the families have to wait to see him meet his date with death ?

Where is Andrea , she was not present at Jose’s execution , actually there was another thuglover there that Jose said I love you , her name was Sandra Crisp , from Houston . So the mystery is back , who did Andrea marry , could it be Cantu , Perez , or Villareal ? Maybe we will never know , as Andrea seems to have vanished.

Left by Justice on August 6th, 2008 at 9:59 am

I am glad the guy is dead!

Left by Rose on August 6th, 2008 at 10:39 am

I hate it when liberals say that it is cheaper to keep people in jail then to execute them…I mean it is BECAUSE of liberals that the appeals process is so long and costly. I really just love Texas and I am so proud to be from Texas. I wish that we would just drop a bomb on our jails and get rid of every good for nothing stupid piece of crap criminal. Long live justice. By the way I hate Mexico so much it is unreal. They literally shoot people crossing their southern border but demand so much for their own citizens? The best thing that could ever happen to Mexico is a nuclear bomb.

Left by Anonymous on August 6th, 2008 at 10:44 am

I HAVE READ ALL OF THE LIBERAL MORONS COMMENTS ABOUT THIS CASE! I COULD ARGUE AND READ THEM THE RIOT ACT AND PROVE THEM ALL WRONG! BUT I WONT, BECAUSE IT DOESNT MATTER ? THEY CONSTANTLY SCHOOLED ON A REGULAR BASIS! THEY DONT GIVE A DAM ABOUT ANY LAW UNLESS IT IN ACCORDENCE TO THIER LIBERAL AGENDA? —SO HERE IS MY RATIONAL??? WE FILL YANKEE STADIUM WITH LIBERALS, WHILE WE WIRE THE SEATS! HIT THEM WITH 10,000 VOLTS AND CALL IT A DAY!
WELL WHATS THE PROBLEM??? THEY ARE GOING TO KNOCK DOWN THE STADIUM AFTER THIS SEASON ANYWAY!!!

Left by Anonymous on August 6th, 2008 at 11:32 am

To begin I would like to explain for all the ones that say that the Mexican Imigrants don’t respect the laws please who are we trying 2 fool Immigrants of all races (don’t forget that we were all immigrants once) break the AMERICAN LAWS (including americans ourselves) CONTINUING, I WILL LIKE TO ADD THAT THE TRUTH IS WHAT HE DID NOT ONLY HURT MANY PEOPLE BUT DESTROYED THE GIRLS FAMILY MEMBERS, BUT NONE OF US ARE FREE OF SINS TO JUDGE NO ONE. Which of us is free of sin to aim the finger toward Jose Medellin? WITHOUT DOUBT it was FATAL WHAT he CAUSED BUT WHAT BLAME DO HIS RELATIVES HAVE IN ALL OF THIS. As WE ARE NOT ALL PERFECT WHY WHEN wE GO INTO confession we want God 2 forgive us if we don’t know how to forgive. Don’t FORGET THAT THE WORLD GIVES MANY TURNS NOW YOU JUDGE Medellin TOMORROW PERHAPS WILL JUDGE YOU OR ME! AS BAD AS THE TEENEAGE KIDS ARE THIS DAYS YOU’LL NEVER KNOW WHAT POSITION YOU’LL END UP IN. but anyways EVERYONE HAVES THEIR MIND OF THERE OWN & YOU GUYS ARE FREE TO THINK WHATEVER WHENEVER, I JUST WANTED 2 MAKE MY POINT ACCROS.

Left by MAGGY on August 6th, 2008 at 11:32 am

la COOCA ratcha!!!!!

Left by Anonymous on August 6th, 2008 at 11:34 am

Anonymous:
I don’t get it why people stereotype all mexicans if that’s the case forget about strereotyping americans I will never finish…..

Left by DC on August 6th, 2008 at 11:42 am

Another monster got what he deserved. Now I can understand a CJ student writing to a deathrow inmate for a research assignment (which contact ended with the assignement) or someone who knew them before they committed the crime. BUT-why would anyone want to communicate on a regular basis with a monster like that. I agree with Robbie that people who do what he did to those girls are just wired differently and that can not be rehabilitated. There is an effect to every cause. Our government can’t afford to house the number of criminals we have now so abolishing the death penalty would make overcrowding worse. Then we all know the solution to that is to commute a lesser charged criminal and release them early. Once they are released, a larger percentage of them graduate to a worse crime and return to prison. If anything, the process of letting these monsters live 10 years past the date of their crime is disgusting. An adolescent mistake is sneaking out to a party or taking dad’s car for a spin. It is NOT brutally raping, torturing, and murdering two young girls. All of them should have already been executed.

Why do people defend these monsters?!! Everyone has choices as to what kind of person they want to be in this life. These scumbags chose to do this and they can’t take it back ever so that is why they should be punished-they sealed their own fate!!!

And I will never understand how anyone can read about heinous crimes and actually befriend or worse yet, marry these monsters. There is something seriously wrong with the people who do get involved with an inmate who has committed a horrific crime such as this. I call them freaks! Robbie I enjoy your blog and your educated points. Kudos to the state of TX for upholding what should have been done long ago.

Left by Anonymous on August 6th, 2008 at 11:55 am

Let’s be politically correct ok. It’s LA COOKA RATCHA!!! Mexicans are not all criminals, some are here legally. If they are here illegally then they are already criminals once they came here in the first place. I’m not complaining, I love quesadillas and taquitos. Who better to run the drive thru at taco bell?

Left by teehee on August 6th, 2008 at 3:04 pm

Left by mn on August 6th, 2008 at 3:10 pm

You spell it ” la cucaracha”….

Left by mn on August 6th, 2008 at 3:39 pm

Well did those Bastards get there just reward by a lethal injection and not by torture. I believe that an eye for an eye should have been in this case. They got off easy, compared to the girls.

So his Jose dead??????

Left by Sick Of on August 6th, 2008 at 4:16 pm

The no goo SOB got what he want to get initiated with all the evil vermin who he belongs with.

Left by MJ on August 6th, 2008 at 5:42 pm

CANDACE????? he said he was sorry right before they fried him. So it looks like he played and lied to you pumkin. You can’t get in the snake tank and get surprised when you are bit. I have been in the Criminal Justice field for 15 years in Houston. I remember the pain and evil. We are not avenging deaths or crimes in Texas. It isn’t a deterrent to evil. Heck it isn’t even a punishment. He doesn’t know what he is missing He is DEAD. It is simple to me. There are some folks that are walking around and our children and others can’t be safe . These monsters mean them harm. They sleep like babies after committing such evilness. They have to go. It is called NOT FIT FOR SOCIETY. All of you Death Penalty opponents keep it up and I promise you the worse crime gets…everytime someone’s loved one is murdered we get a new pro death penalty Cheer Leader. I wish we could buy an island, abolish the death penalty and send the anti-death penalty folks there. I would love to create and help fund a program for them called adopt a Death row inmate. I would pay for his plane ride to the island and they could all live in Peace and Harmony. Y’all could all have hugs and yoga and when their evil comes out again and it will. Maybe ya’ll could sit in a circle and sing Kum By Ya.

Left by Gungal on August 6th, 2008 at 8:12 pm

Why is still hard 2 understand is why were these underage girls doing walking by themselves at those hours of the night? Where were these parents at? Mayb there the types of parents that only realize they have children until after there dead! i have a daughter and she wont go around the corner at any time of day without supervision!!!!!!!!

OOOOOOOOOOHHHH & PLEASE DONT STEROTYPE Mexicans some of yah AFRICANS (NIGGAS) OR WHITES (REDNECKS) R WORSE THEN WE R!!!! WE RUN THIS MUTHAFUCKER!!! THANKS 2 IMMIGRANTS YAH MUDAFUCKERS EAT DON’T TRY 2 DISCRIMINATE US OVER THIS DERRICK WAS BLACK & CANTU WAS AMERICAN!!!!!!! SO DONT USE THIS TO DISCRINATE US WE WERE ALL MADE THE SAME WAY WE ALL SHIT SLEEP EAT! I MEAN IF IS SO BAD DON’T BUY OUR FOOD DON’T GO TO MEXICO 2 PARTY!

Left by ANONYMOUS on August 7th, 2008 at 9:46 am

It’s amazing to me how will get stuck in the red tape with all the illegales from mexico. We have a legal process that needs to be abided by. If you can’t go by the rules you wave your rights. With criminals wasting millions of dollars appealing their appeals. They can string it along for years. It’s simple if you are here illegally and commit a felony you have one shot in our legal system. If the facts are overwhelming (dna) (confession) that shoud be sufficient. If you are caught entering the USA illegally you should be returned after being processed. If you return a second time you should do some time. Maybe help build the Great Wall of Texas!

Left by gwiz1958 on August 7th, 2008 at 9:56 am

What are we arguing about here? Is the death penalty right or wrong? Is that the big discussion? Point blank whether it is right or wrong he was in Texas correct? He murdered people correct? What is the punishment for murder in Texas? The death penalty!! If he did not want to die he should not have taken life in the first place. I have heard several times in regards to this story that only God has a right to take a life……………….HELLO!!! If you believe that to be true then not only did he break man’s law but God’s as well.

Ignorance creates an abundance of conversation to argue about doesn’t it?

Whether it’s right or wrong it is still the law there I am sure he was aware of that fact. You break the law and get caught you pay. He has no care for life as all of you who are opposed to the death penalty do. If he did this crime would not have happened in the first place.

And whomever hinted at blame as to why these girls were out that late/ where were their parents ( I don’t disagree with those questions) but MY CHILDREN as free citizens to this country should be able to walk these streets that we pay for with out worry or fear of something like this happening to them. Instead of locking our children away to their yards or houses we should be locking these people away from our streets and children.

Left by Lex on August 7th, 2008 at 1:06 pm

well aperently you white people think your all that just because you killd once again a mexican well let me tell you that does girls jose medellin raped & killed looked like BITCHES & HORES you could only tell they were flurting thats what all white bitches do probably jose told them wats up and they couldn’t handle it a bad ass mexican you know eny ways um white people do dum things and they dont kill them like raping kids then eating them .so i dont give a fuck fuck all the haters in this shit puro BROWN PRIDE

RIP JOSE MADELLIN

Left by bouncy on August 7th, 2008 at 1:07 pm

Bouncy your disgusting someones babies were killed I don’t care who you are you have no right to take a life, and I share no brown pride with you.

Left by Lex on August 7th, 2008 at 1:15 pm

WELL LIKE I WAS SAYING RED NECKS WHY DIRENT THEY JUST SENT JOSE TO MEXICO THATS WHAT THEY DID TO MY BROTHER THEY SEND HIM FROM MEXICO TO TEXAS WERE MEXICAN AND WE DONT GIVE A FUCK A BOUT WHAT ENY BODY SAIS WE ARE STILL GANNA TAKE OVER USA GANG BANGING AL RATO
LA BOUNCY FROM CHICALI 13
PURO BROW PRIDE

Left by bouncy on August 7th, 2008 at 1:25 pm

FUCK YOU LEX ON BICTH

Left by bouncy on August 7th, 2008 at 1:26 pm

you wanna make this a race thing fine!! Look at the statistics!

In the US percentage of people on death row

Black 42%
Hispanic 10%
White 46%

Precentage of Executions
Black 54%
Hispanic 6.3%
White 57%

And of the victims of those crimes where the death penalty was imposed over 80% where white people

Yeah that is really racist!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh very intelligent come back too………..love the spelling!!!

Left by Lex on August 7th, 2008 at 1:37 pm

oh just in case you don’t really get that it is 6 point 3 not 63!!!

Left by Lex on August 7th, 2008 at 1:38 pm

Bouncy,

You are a disgusting piece of shit , just like your friend Jose , how dare you tarnish the memory of the girls.

Also , have you ever heard of “Spell Check”, are you a kindergarten student , you spell like one. Why don’t you get an education you moron !

You can’t even spell Jose’s last name properly , what a dimwit.

Smoke some more pot , and go hide in a toilet where you belong.

Left by Justice on August 7th, 2008 at 1:50 pm

I am so tired of Mexicans like Bouncy giving us decent Mexicans a bad name. You really cannot feel that those young girls deserved to die in such a brutal way and if you do then your an idiot if you can even read . I feel real sorry for the families of those girls. I heard of this killing because they were talking about it at work. How people were trying to save his life and send him to Mexico for what to kill more girls no he deserved what he got. I hate people who think life is a joke. R.I.P TO Elizabeth and Jennifer

Left by tired on August 7th, 2008 at 6:41 pm

I must say that I am pleased, and feel morally uplifted, upon hearing that another convicted murderer has been put to death.

I have to also admit that moral issues regarding the death penalty, and categorical political goals have no place in serious discussion: instead, incentives and constraints of policies ought to be recognized and examined, and the apparent inefficiencies a capitalist system recognized as inherent in a complex system that with its efficiency to inefficiency ratio far outweighs any other system so far devised by man. The essential principles of market and freedom bear fruit because each individual has the most specific knowledge of his or her circumstances which no other person can have. Decisions freely made by individuals can be better or worse, since information is never complete, but the empirical end result is far far better than any other system where decisions are made by select groups of people based on some pooling of information which is always sadly lacking in specifics and can never be interpreted as well as by individuals for themselves.

Similarly, a categorical final penalty such as the death penalty, even if we allow it, is inherently a bad choice since it stops the process of innovation whereby individuals continuously reexamine and discover facts and act on them. Far better, in a differently inefficient manner, would be a process whereby release from prison is always thwarted by the evidence, and yet there is always hope, in the case of mistakes (of any sort), to work to correct them.

Capitalist society tolerates inefficiency because the same process produces hugely more efficiency. In the same manner, the legal portions of a capitalist society would see more activity and innovation, and ordinary people would have incentives to be more involved to protect their rights, if similar principles applied. The fact that some groups oppose the death penalty on categorical moral grounds, while either support it, is a good sign of a state where freedom to act on one’s own specific information is allowed. Mistakes can and will be made, and their correction or the support for continuance of prison sentences is just as much a healthy part of the process of a capitalist state.

Left by Gernot Hassenpflug on August 8th, 2008 at 2:16 am

I don’t see his family as victims. They raised two sons with serious criminal records who went on to commit these brutal assaults, rapes, and, murder on Elizabeth Ertman and Jennifer Pena. Also, Medellin abducted, raped, and murdered Patricia Lourdes Lopez 27 y/o, a mother of two, six months before he was arrested. As already pointed out, the parents were banned from the prison after they were overheard planning how to break their older son out.

JS: As to Jeremy Strohmeyer, if lwop is so awful, he will have plenty of opportunities to commit suicide in general pop. However, talk is cheap and another form of acting out. I predict he will adapt to life in prison, like almost all of them do.

Left by Anonymous on August 8th, 2008 at 1:16 pm

well i dont give a fuck if i dont know how to spell all of you mutha fuckers understand what the fuck im saying you know what i think is that this is some white people web thing and just because TIRED you are MEXICAN IT DOSENT MEANE SHIT THERE ARE MANY LIKE YOU WHO TRY TO BE WHITE US THE REAL MEXICAN CALL PEOPLE LIKE YOU COCUNUTS AND. iM NOT TRYING TO MAKE THIS A RACE THING BUT I READ ALL THE COMENTS AND THEY WERE ALL TALKING SHIT ABOUT MEXICANS.
PURO BROWN PRIDE PS THOSE GIRLS DID LOOK LIKE BITCHES.

Left by BOUNCY on August 8th, 2008 at 1:59 pm

TO ALL THE MEXICAN PEOPLE THAT ARE HATING ON JOSE MEDELLIN CHINGEN A SU MADRE CABRONES .YOU ARE THE ONES WHO RUINED JOSES MEMORY COME ON PEOPLE HE SPENT 15 YEARS IN PRISON WASENT THAT ENOUGH.AND WHO THE FUCK SAYS DIMWIT JUST THE WHITE PEOPLE.

Left by BOUNCY on August 8th, 2008 at 2:05 pm

Bouncy,

Take a pill , relax , you are ranting and raving like a lunatic. You obviously have a problem reading as well as spelling , of all the posts on this blog , who’s talking ” shit ” about Mexicans ?
The fact that the murdering scumbag Jose is Mexican , is not a race thing , it’s what he is. If he was a lily white American that would not change people’s feelings towards him.
How do you ruin the memory of a low life killer and rapist who jumped two teenage girls , how would you like to remember him ?
Was fifteen years in prison enough , come on Bouncy , for what he did , ten lifetimes would not be enough , he got his just punishment !
If you believe it was enough , then you are a DIMWIT.
And please have some respect for the girls , how would you like it if this happened to someone in your family ?

Left by Justice on August 8th, 2008 at 2:29 pm

JUSTICE YOU ARE A DIMWIT

Left by BOUNCY on August 8th, 2008 at 2:32 pm

WELL HOW WILL YOU FEEL IF THEY EXECUTE YOU WOULDNT YOU WANT THEM TO FORGIVE YOU AFTER 15 YEARS THEY SHOULD HAVE AT LEAST GAVE HIM LIFE IN PRISON BUT NO THEY HAD TO KILL HIM FUCK YOU

Left by BOUNCY on August 8th, 2008 at 2:36 pm

AND YES I AM GOING TO SMOKE SOME MARY JANE SO I CAN FORGET ALL THE STUPID THINGS THIS STATE DOES

Left by BOUNCY on August 8th, 2008 at 2:39 pm

Bouncy,

I kind of expected that kind of a reply from you , you are a very angry person , perhaps you should seek some help.

I will never have to worry about being executed , I am a normal person , I don’t go around raping and killing children , give him life in prison , did Jose give the two girls a chance at life , not only did he kill them , he laughed and bragged about his crime.

Jose was what we normal people refer to as ” Scum of the earth “, people like him do not deserve to live on this planet.

By the way , were you a friend or relative to Jose ?

Left by Justice on August 8th, 2008 at 2:48 pm

Remember, Medellin murdered three people. He was not charged with the first one because it was a cold case file and they didn’t make the link until after he was convicted on the other two. And, no, 15 years prison is not enough for two, let alone, three murders. He earned the death penalty and I hope he rots in hell.

Left by Anonymous on August 8th, 2008 at 3:45 pm

Okay, I’ll humor the ones who have missed me so much that they still bring my name up on this blog after a year or more. Let me clear things up a bit….I DO NOT believe that a crime should go unpunished, especially one as heinous as rape and murder! I have a lot of doubts about Jose regarding his ACTUAL role in this crime. There isn’t a single sole that can clear that up with me other than Jose, so please don’t try. I did begin writing to him due to an assignment and became very interested. Not b/c I’m a sick, sadistic person, but b/c it takes people who are interested in crime and what motivates a person to do such a thing to be successful with jobs such as prison guards, police officers, lawyers, etc. Afterall, that’s why I received my DEGREE in Criminal Justice. I learned so many things from Jose about prison, crime and just people in general. I have never doubted that Jose was present that night when Jennifer and Elizabeth were murdered, and for that HE DESERVED TO BE PUNISHED! I could not comment too much on this as he was still alive and going through his appeals but I will comment now. He of course admitted to being there and after that, things get confusing. Let’s use a little critical thinking here…do you honestly believe that it is beyond the realm of possibility that he was there that night (up to mischief, I don’t deny) and got caught up in the wrong thing? Do you honestly believe that it’s not at all possible that he may have never laid a hand on those girls? I’m not even saying that this is what I believe but ANYTHING is possible. Jose was threatened by police officers that if he did not take the responsibility for these crimes that his little brother would be charged and receieve a death sentence. That, I CAN believe wholeheartedly. I went into the CJ program wanting to be a police officer, so I do not hate nor am I against law enforcement but in A LOT of ways, too many of them are corrupt and they will get down and dirty and do very illegal things just to receive another “knotch on their gunbelt”. If you disagree with that, you’re a fool. Say what you want b/c a lot of you don’t have anything intelligent to offer so you attack me by saying a child rapist and murderer makes my panties wet. Yeah, yeah…okay….if it makes you feel better, you’re right. Or, it could just be that I took the time to listen to both sides of the story which a lot of you haven’t. I also think that there have been too many cruel things said about Jose Medellin’s family. Just as much as Jennifer Eartman’s and Elizabeth Pena’s families suffered due to the loss of their daughter, so is HIS family. HIS INNOCENT FAMILY, might I add. Now, there are more victims that come out of all of this. Or what about his daughter? She’s an innocent little girl just like them and as if it wasn’t bad enough to explain to people that her father wasn’t present in her life due to a bad decision he made, she now gets to tell them that she doesn’t have one at all. She can’t write him letters anymore, ask his advise, send him pictures, etc. Every child desevres to know who their parents are if they want to. If you don’t believe in murdering people, then why do you believe in murderers being murdered? Ponder on that for a while. Feel free to agree or disagree with me. It doesn’t matter. I’ll watch to see what you write but do not expect any commenting back (as much as I know you would love for me to). Pleasure as always.

Left by It's Candace Again... on August 8th, 2008 at 4:32 pm

Oh, please!
Candace, you almost got by with a post that few would bother to argue with, but you couldn’t help yourself, you had to reveal who you truly are.

then why do you believe in murderers being murdered?

Effing thug lover.

Left by No2Liberals on August 8th, 2008 at 4:42 pm

Well, at least she will never be hired as a law enforcement officer. She would never pass the psychiatric screening. And she’s too dumb to be an attorney or paralegal.

Left by Anonymous on August 8th, 2008 at 7:27 pm

They should have executed smarty-bouncy along with his great friend Jose Medellin — // I’m a Mexican National and scum like Bouncy and J.M. sometimes make me ashame of being Mexican. Who cares if you’re brown, yellor or white. If you commit the crime, you do the time. Too bad I didn’t get to administer the lethal injection on Jose.

Left by Menalipa on August 9th, 2008 at 3:52 am

Candace,

I have a couple of questions for you , obviously you do not have to respond.

Do you really think that Jose did not participate in the rapes , according to the book , Pure Murder , it was Jose who was the first one to grab one of the girls ( Elizabeth ) , and throw her to the ground. He was also the first of the gang to rape her , and later bragged about having virgin blood on his underwear. He also was at one end of the belt as they strangled Jennifer , O’Brien was at the other end.

My next question is , why is it that only you say that Jose had a daughter , it is never mentioned on his requests for pen pals , no mention in the book , and no mention in his last words before his execution. You would think he would say something about her at the end , like I love my daughter , not even a mention anywhere.
She would have been born when he was eighteen or less , why is this not documented in the book , everything else about his life before the murders is written in great detail.

Is it possible that he lied to you about her ?

One other thing , I commend you for coming back to the blog after such a long time , that took guts.

Left by Ron on August 11th, 2008 at 12:58 pm

Contact the consulate? Joe had lived here 15 years - its not like he was on vacation when he decided to murder two teenage girls. And, he was known as “Joe” until the s**t hit the fan and he needed to be “Jose the Mexican National” four or five years after the fact.

Two down, one to go.

Left by bill h. on August 11th, 2008 at 3:34 pm

To those who still defend or want to see it from Joes’s point of view or his families point of you I give you that you obviously see things on this case from a different prospective which if it weren’t for those differences these types of conversations would never take place my question is the ones who are women (no offense but men will not get this point but think of the women in your life whom you love and protect when I say this) what is one of the worse possible things that could happen to you as a woman? (besides death)

The violence and gore of the rape part of this crime is unthinkable…….if you are in defense of Jose, a rape victim you are obviously not (which you are extremely lucky) cause if you were you would have less compassion for Jose……the mere thought of these little ones experiencing that. The kind of unwanted force, domination, defenseless strength ripping at you from the inside and out to the point that you actually ask for death to come…..all of this fear, pain, and disgust is happening to you and all you can see is the enjoyment in the faces of the people who are inflicting this unto you…..and to think it was basically babies going through that.

I care not for his family or his soul because what these men inflicted upon these girls as their last conscience moments in life is enough to rip every ounce of compassion from my heart in regards to these men.

Left by Lex on August 11th, 2008 at 4:40 pm

Preston, you are such a limp-wristed little child who thinks
he has some insight on this world. well you don’t. how ’bout that?
Medellin is Dead ha ha ha, for all you whinning, we are the world
liberals. dead i tell you. DIG HIM UP , SO WE CAN KILL HIM AGAIN!!!!

Left by bardoo on August 14th, 2008 at 10:06 pm

This message is to Candace - I don’t care about anyone else.
Candace - I too used to write to Jose. I am very sorry for your loss.
My biggest regret right now is that I lost contact with him a few years ago. My life became to “busy”. I still have his letters and in the past couple of days , I have read them and cried a lot. I also want to add that you are entirely accurate, Jose does have a daughter. These people do not know Jose and they do not know the person that he grew into. I am thankful that you were in his life. I do not know why these people assume only uneducated single women write to death row inmates either. I too am college educated. The ignorance here is beyond belief. We both know that Jose is not a monster and that the media coverage on this case was not 100% accurate. I am writing this as a message of comfort for you - we will see our friend again on the other side - and no I do not mean Hell for all of the bitter/narrow minded people who continue to post the messages of hate and anger. Take care Candace and you will be in my prayers as I know this is one of the hardest things I have gone through in a long time.

Left by Tabitha on August 15th, 2008 at 7:48 pm

It’s not your sand box, Tabitha, so I will respond to your weepy comment, as I chose.
I find it noteworthy that you didn’t mention the two young girls he helped murder, no sympathy for their family, and no mention of his cruel and sadistic nature. You only mention how sweet he was to you in letters. Lucky for you, you didn’t cross that park that night, or some thug lover, other than you, would be weeping over this monsters just execution. The person you claim he grew into, is the one who payed for the crimes he committed along the way.
If this is one of the hardest things you have ever gone through in your life, you must be agoraphobic, led a sheltered life, as well as being a total loon.

Left by No2Liberals on August 15th, 2008 at 9:46 pm

This is not my sand box, that’s an interesting comment. Actually I am a grown woman and do not play in sand boxes as you may. Actually No2Liberals, I work in research, should you ever get a horrible disease such as cancer or AIDS you will be praying to God that this “loon” can help find a suitable treatment for your ailment. I think it is silly that you have resulted to name calling as a way to express yourself although I am extremely impressed that you did not use profanity. And yes I feel terrible for the families of the victims and for the victims themselves. But I also believe that hate will lead to more hate. Healing starts with forgiveness not revenge. I am not on this Earth to judge Jose nor am I going to judge you. I respect your opinion but I also have the right to my opinion. Jose’s actions that night were horrible, I am not denying that but 15 years have passed since that night and the only forgiveness Jose needed is the forgiveness that God gives. I would hardly call myself a thug lover but I admit that I love everyone independent of race, social class or education level.

Left by Tabitha on August 16th, 2008 at 6:57 am

Tabitha,
You may be who you say you are, but to me, you are just pixels on a screen.
Good for you, that you finally acknowledged the two young innocent girls that he abused and brutally murdered, as well as the additional suffering to their families. It’s still a reflection of your distorted view, that you had to be prompted to do so, while defending your disdain for justice.
And don’t patronize me with your non judgemental meme, everyone makes judgements about everything, every day. The time that passed between his criminal acts and his punishment for them, did not alter the fact that he was responsible. That you and others are prepared to forgive him may have been a comfort to him, in his last days, but his crimes, will be the final determination, as to whether he is ultimately forgiven.
I can understand someone being disappointed in his actions and his death, but to say it is one of the hardest things you have ever gone through, a murderer you exchanged letters with, to me that is just way OTT.

Left by No2Liberals on August 16th, 2008 at 8:58 am

Befriending a death row inmate is similar to befriending someone with a terminal illness. You know the person will die but it does not make the situation any easier. Choosing to correspond with a death row inmate was a choice that I made for many reasons. The loss of someone who has made an impact in my life is very difficult. Before I befriended Jose, I was in favor of the death penalty. He changed my views on many things not just the death penalty. You are correct everyone makes judgements but I have tried very hard not to pass judgement. It is something that I work on each day. I do apologize if I have offended you in any way with my feelings on the subject.

Left by Tabitha on August 16th, 2008 at 10:16 am

Tabitha and Candace HE’S DEAD . No amount of your liberal
sobbing and boo-hooing will bring him back. ha ha ha!!
Maybe your buddy Barak Hussein will be able to bring him back to life again so you can feel all warm and fuzzy about this poor ‘Joe’

Left by bardoo on August 16th, 2008 at 12:09 pm

Tabitha,
While your opinion offends me, your demeanor does not.

Left by No2Liberals on August 16th, 2008 at 4:09 pm

No2Liberals,

I am happy that my demeanor has not offended you.

Bardoo,

Wow - my sobbing won’t bring Jose back from the dead? I had not realized that and I am very appreciative of you pointing this out to me.

For the record, I am not a big fan of Barack. If a person is against the death penalty this does not mean the person is a liberal.

Left by Tabitha on August 16th, 2008 at 7:31 pm

I have a few questions for anyone who would like to reply, followed by my own comments regarding this case.

1) Has anyone heard any news whatsoever regarding the scheduling of Peter Cantu’s death date?

2) I was also wondering if anyone has any insight as to why Cantu’s date has not been scheduled, considering that he was the first to be tried and convicted (before Sean O’Brien and Jose Medellin).

3) Also, since Raul Villareal’s and Efrain Perez’s sentences were reduced to life, what do you think the chances are that they will be released someday? While I realize their releases are always a possibility, I would be interested in opinions as to the likelihood of this occurring. I’m thinking that their releases will probably be denied, but I’m just referring to the fact that Venancio Medellin’s 40-year sentence was upheld when he turned 18, resulting in his being remanded to the Texas adult prison system. (The other two options included release on parole at age of 18 or continuing in the juvenile system until age 21, both of which were denied in favor of the full sentence).

I respect Tabitha’s and Candace’s rights to their opinions, including their assertion that the general public does not know everything there is to know about this horrific crime. However, I do not have to be privy to every little detail in order to know that all of those young men bore undeniable responsibility for the tragically tortuous deaths of two innocent children, even IF some of them may have had some reservations about murder (and yes, even IF they did not personally do the strangling). However, testimony by all six boys shows they each played a role in the rape of the girls, and all but one (14-year-old Venancio Medellin) admitted to directly participating in the strangulations and stompings.

I even feel that Ramon and Frank Sandoval share some of the culpability since they knew what was going down, yet still walked away and did not even bother to make an anonymous 9-1-1 phone call; they walked away and did absolutely nothing to alert the police, despite the fact that Frank admitted that both he and his twin brother believed that the other boys planned on raping the girls and that something really bad was about to transpire. It is incredibly sad and absolutely unbelievable that not even ONE out of eight young men thought of anyone else other than themselves that night. The Sandoval brothers were motivated to leave because they knew what was happening was wrong and they did not want to get into trouble; too bad that they were not altruistic enough to show a little concern about the well-being and rights of the two young girls they witnessed being accosted by their buddies that star-filled summer night on the railroad tracks.

The bottom line is: Each and every one of those young men knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that what they were doing was wrong at the time they began to perpetrate their vicious attack (abduction and rape). If they did not know it was wrong, why would they have been so concerned about leaving behind witnesses to identify them? Surely since they clearly understood that rape was wrong, then they also understood at the time that murder was completely over the top in regards to what is socially acceptable, let alone moral. And, again, even if one or some of the participants to these murders experienced qualms, I’d like to emphasize that the attacks lasted for over an hour. That was PLENTY of time for one of those boys to come to his senses and, if he did not have the guts to overcome peer pressure and make a stand in front of his buddies to enforce his conviction that murder (and rape) is wrong, then he could have easily slipped away to one of the nearby apartment complexes to make an anonymous phone call to 9-1-1. The police could have arrived in time to have prevented the girls’ murders (though they would undoubtedly have endured unpardonable mental, as well as physical, scarring from their beatings and rapes).

I sincerely hope that all the men involved in this crime eventually came to feel remorse for what they did to those two precious young girls, 14-year-old Jennifer Ertman and 16-year-old Elizabeth Christine Pena. At the time of their arrests and trials, however, it seemed as though any sense of shame and remorse evaded them. Immediately after leaving the crime scene, while they were still covered with their victims’ blood, several of the boys (Jose Medellin, Raul Villareal, Efrain Perez, and Peter Cantu) bragged to Cantu’s family members (older brother and sister-in-law) regarding the parts each of them played in the crime. Sean O’Brien bragged to other inmates after his arrest about the role he played.

Incredibly (or perhaps I should say, not surprisingly), three of the young men involved in Jennifer’s and Elizabeth’s murders (Sean O’Brien, Peter Cantu, and Jose Medellin) had been involved in the earlier gruesome murder of 27-year-old Lourdes “Patricia” Lopez, the mother of two young children. Unfortunately, they were never charged. Police did not solve this earlier crime until the young men had already been charged with the murders of Elizabeth and Jennifer. Medellin, Cantu, and O’Brien had bragged to Medellin’s middle brother (who is also named Jose Medellin, but has a different middle name) about the earlier murder of Patricia Lopez. When Medellin’s brother offered this information, the state obtained DNA samples from the three. Medellin’s blood was identified as being on Lopez’s body and O’Brien’s fingerprints were identified on a beer bottle that had been lying beneath her body. Another of the young men, Efrain Perez, was responsible for the attempted robbery and shooting death of a Hispanic man in Houston, though he was never charged. I hope that remorse was also felt for these senseless deaths.

The expression of remorse is important because the victims are finally acknowledged by the person/persons responsible for their deaths as human beings; thus the fact that the victims were precious and irreplaceable individuals is recognized (though belatedly) by their killer(s). True remorse can not be experienced until full responsibility for one’s actions has been accepted. Of course, remorse does nothing to bring the victim back to life, but, whether or not heart-felt remorse is important to anyone else, the victims still deserve the dignity of recognition from those who robbed them of their life. Furthermore, the perpetrator of the crime can not truly change or grow into a better person until s/he has fully accepted responsibility and recognized the consequences of his/her actions; and, for most people, remorse would naturally follow upon acceptance of responsibility.

It can rightfully be argued that (1) remorse and forgiveness are between the perpetrator(s), the victim(s), and God and (2) that acceptance of responsibility and remorse are impossible to enforce upon anyone. However, punishment for crime, such as murder, is most certainly within the realm (and even the responsibility) of society and does not require that the perpetrator accept his or her responsibility (or show remorse). This is a good thing because sociopaths do not accept responsibility for their behavior and will blame anyone or anything other than themselves. Therefore, while I am in agreement regarding the sentencing and punishment for these young men, it is simply for their spiritual sake and for the dignity of the victims that I hope responsibility was finally accepted and genuine remorse was felt by each of these young men.

There have been several posts in which the appeal to the possibility of convicts changing for the better is made. These posts cite a pen-pal relationship with Jose Medellin and, unfortunately, seem to indicate that Medellin still denied responsibility for the murders. I am curious about this because Medellin’s final words seemed to indicate (somewhat weakly) that he did acknowledge his responsibility when, in addressing the Penas and Ertmans, he stated: “I’m sorry my actions caused you pain.” My response to whether it is possible that a person (in this case, Medellin) can change for the better is: Unless Medellin truly accepted responsibility for his role in this abhorrence of human behavior and unequivocally owned up to it and experienced heart-felt remorse, then I do not believe that he could have significantly changed into a better person. Part of accepting responsibility is accepting the consequences of one’s actions. For his sake, and the sake of his friends, I hope that they all have. But, again, whether or not they are indeed better people is within the realm occupied only by the perpetrator, the victim(s), and God since only God can truly know someone’s heart. Society (the public in general, as well as the perpetrators’ families, friends, and penpals) will never really know if they have truly changed. Since there is no way of truly knowing for certain whether or not Medellin had changed, then it can not be reasonably expected to be within society’s responsibility to make this type of determination. We can only judge a person’s actions, not his or her heart. Unfortunately, Medellin’s actions that summer day in June, 1993 were brutal beyond description. His actions were so brutal that, as a society, we could not, in good conscience, allow him the possibility of performing those types of actions again or we would then bear part of the responsibility toward any new victims.

For those who are supporters of the convicted: I just want to say that I feel like your motivations in understanding these men lie in the fact that you have great hope for the good in humanity and I commend you for it. But, please be careful where you place your trust. Sociopaths and psychopaths often have an excellent understanding of empathetic emotions that lead to helpful and altruistic behaviors in others and are more than willing to prey shamelessly upon them. They can be very charismatic and seem very sincere. They are frequently successful in gaining the trust of others—even those who are not considered gullible and naïve. So, bearing this in mind, remember that these men had / have all the time in the world and nothing better to do than to craft responses to their pen-pals. It is easy for them to either assert their innocence or to state they have changed and have adopted a certain philosophy or religion; but words, philosophies, professed religions, and feelings only have meaning when they are backed up with action. As the saying goes: You can’t just talk the talk, you have to walk the walk. Since a man can not truly show if he can “walk the walk” when he is not free to do as he pleases, such as when he is rightfully locked away in prison, then it is not possible to know for certain whether or not his noble-sounding words are truly taken to heart and practiced. I am not telling you anything you do not already know when I say that words are frequently superficial. So, please be cautious that your optimism in the human spirit does not allow you to be swayed by the power of words into trusting others so easily—be they written in a letter or spoken to you directly.

I apologize for the length of this post. I wish I was a better writer and better able to state the above in a more concise and less rambling manner. To each of you: Take care and may God bless and protect each of you and your loved ones. Despite differences in opinion on this board, I know that we all wish that no one would ever have to experience the suffering endured by Jennifer, Elizabeth, and their families.

Left by Tracy on August 17th, 2008 at 12:27 am

Also, since Raul Villareal’s and Efrain Perez’s sentences were reduced to life, what do you think the chances are that they will be released someday?

After completing their full sentence, a 100%.

The USSC only banned the execution of those who were under 18 at the time they committed their crimes. They did not hold that juveniles can’t be tried and sentenced as adults.

Left by Anonymous on August 17th, 2008 at 11:17 am

Thank you for taking the time to respond to my question regarding the possibility of Perez’s and Villareal’s future releases.

While I was aware that they were still sentenced as adults, I was just concerned that, despite having a life sentence, they would be eligible for parole one day. Do you know how many years it will be before this will even become a possibility?

I hope the chances are very, very strong that parole will be denied. Both Perez and Villareal have attempted murder while they were behind bars (Perez attempted to murder a guard while Villareal went after another inmate, allegedly as a prison gang initiation rite).

Left by Tracy on August 17th, 2008 at 4:15 pm

Tracy,

First, thank you so much for your post. It was very well written.

As you know, I did correspond with Jose Medellin for a few years.
Jose is the only death row inmate that I have ever corresponded with.
In our letters we did discuss the crime but not in great detail as he was currently in the appeals process . Jose never pretended to be innocent and I truly feel that he was sorry for the crimes that he committed. The media may have portrayed him as having no remorse but really Jose is the only person who could know whether or not he felt remorse.

You are correct, there are many sociopaths and psychopaths in the world, many who will never see the walls of a prison. Not all prisoners are the same. I do not know that I will ever write a death row inmate again but my intentions in doing so to begin with were based around my religion.

Jose became my friend, he was not a monster to me. I looked beyond the things that he had done and looked at the person he had become. Nothing I can post here will bring the victims back, nothing I post here will bring Jose back and nothing I say makes any difference in the scheme of things.

I am very strongly against violence of any kind. I also believe that hate will lead to more hate and that forgiveness is the only way to peace.

I strongly doubt that either Raul or Efrain will ever be paroled.
I believe both will spend the rest of their lives behind bars.
I have never had contact with them and know nothing about their backgrounds. Venancio, Jose’s brother will be released in 2033. He has been in prison since he was 14 years old for this crime.

Left by Tabitha on August 17th, 2008 at 8:46 pm

Wow, some of you make like Joe and his family are something
out of “Going My Way.”

Left by bardoo on August 17th, 2008 at 9:10 pm

Do you know how many years it will be before this will even become a possibility?

40

Both Perez and Villareal have attempted murder while they were behind bars (Perez attempted to murder a guard while Villareal went after another inmate, allegedly as a prison gang initiation rite).

Most violations in prison are addressed by their disciplinary system and will delay parole eligibility beyond the 40 years. But, they have quite a few years, decades actually, to rehabilitate themselves. However, if what you say is true, those are serious new offenses and I don’t know why they wouldn’t be charged and brought to trial.

Left by Anonymous on August 18th, 2008 at 8:13 am

Wow, some of you make like Joe and his family are something
out of “Going My Way.”

Boy, you got that right.

Left by Anonymous on August 18th, 2008 at 8:16 am

Tabitha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WTF ARE YOU KIDDING do not for a second say that befriending someone on death row is like befriending someone with a terminal illness!! At 23 I was diagnosised with cancer…………………I DID NOTHING TO BECOME SICK……..I spent two years thinking I was going to die……….I lived well, obeyed the law, loved my family and friends worked everything and yet still there I was preparing to die (I am sorry for this reaction everyone but) FUCK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! he put himself there he chose his course in life……he made the decision to be where he was to take a life………………I was preparing to die and I did nothing to deserve so don’t even fucking go there!!!!!!!!!! you ignorant, higher than thou art, little elitist snob……..don’t compare apple to oranges it is not the same thing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Left by Lex on August 18th, 2008 at 10:33 am

Oh and by throwing out there your in research for cancer and AIDS might I suggest this………why don’t you spend a little less time writing to murders and rapist and more time finding a cure for CANCER cause the treatments are worse then the disease……………..maybe you should take a penpaling with people who have no family or friends and are lying in the hospital ALONE dying of the illnesses that you are trying to save them from……..oh wait it’s much more dramatic and thrilling and controversal to talk to a killer right!!!!!! Don’t act all I’m such a good person with forgiveness bullshit……….have some compassion for the people who do right and have nothing but death to look forward to……….to many good people I watched dying alone in hospitals…cause there isn’t enough research or money or resources…..and yet you wanna put more money into taking care of a baby raping murder for the rest of their lives……….you tell me Tabitha what is wrong with that picture!!!!!!!

Left by Lex on August 18th, 2008 at 10:44 am

Good points, Lex.

The people on this thread are also painting the juveniles as choir boys which doesn’t quite reconcile with their behavior in prison according to Tracey.

Left by Anonymous on August 18th, 2008 at 11:08 am

And Bouncy is on another thread acting like the ignorant slut she is.

Bouncy the puta.

Left by Anonymous on August 18th, 2008 at 1:30 pm

Lex,

Wow. While I apologize for the treatments that you have gone through, we have come a long way through research. I do not know the type of cancer that you have but obviously if you are still alive it is a testament to the benefits of research.

It’s sad to see someone so young filled with so much venom. Perhaps you should seek some professional counseling for all that you have been through and your anger issue.

It is always best when discussing any topic not to use profanity.
To call me ignorant while using profanity is a bit hypocritical is it not?

If you would kindly supply me with a program where I can write the terminally ill, I would absolutely embrace the opportunity.

As for my comparing a death row inmate to someone with a terminal illness I was implying that there is an understanding that the person will not be with you long. I think perhaps you took my comment the wrong way. OR perhaps you were looking for an opportunity to explode. I do apologize for offending you. However I will not apologize for my friendship with Jose.

Who is Bouncy? How is she a slut? Is this because she does not agree with you? I do not understand the name calling when trying to make a point.

Left by Tabitha on August 18th, 2008 at 4:56 pm

Perhaps you should seek some professional counseling for all that you have been through and your anger issue.

Is there professional counseling for people who are assholes? If so, seek it immediately!

Left by Anonymous on August 18th, 2008 at 6:14 pm

Anonymous,

Here we go with the name calling again. What is it with the profanity?

Well “Anonymous” I will keep the counseling for “assholes” in mind.

Tabitha

Left by Tabitha on August 18th, 2008 at 8:21 pm

You should. You suffer from advanced assholitis.

Left by Anonymous on August 18th, 2008 at 11:39 pm

Anonymous,

HeHeHe…. Your intelligence is blowing me away .

Tabitha

Left by Tabitha on August 19th, 2008 at 5:21 am

Greetings to all.

When we get right down to the heart of this thread, despite which side of the debate we may be on, we find we are passionate about defending the sanctity of human life. This is a good thing because we SHOULD all be passionate about it. Considering the gravity of this matter, I hope all of us can put our emotions aside as much as possible so that we can agree to hear (or in this case, read) every point of view. This doesn’t mean that we have to agree, but it definitely does not hurt to consider someone’s point. There is always a possibility that we may gain new insight—even if we disagree with up to 99% of what a person is stating. That being said, if someone is beyond reasoning with, such as when disrespectful comments are made about the victims of this case, it is not even worth responding to as it will only keep the abuser coming back for more. You can not talk sense into someone who is so angry that they do not want to be sensible.

Thank you, both Anonymous and Tabitha, for providing more information to one of the questions that I had posted.

Lex, it is so uplifting to read that you were able to beat a diagnosis of terminal cancer. I can’t imagine what that must have been like to live through. A former co-worker of mine was diagnosed with Hodgkin’s disease while he was in high school and was told that he was terminal. He, too, managed to beat the disease and described to me what it was like for him to believe he was going to die soon.

I read with interest the thread to which Anonymous provided the link (entitled “Supremes Strikes Down Death Penalty for Juveniles”). According to one poster on that thread who personally knows Efrain Perez, it is not likely that Perez will ever be released on parole, which, no doubt, should also apply to Villarreal.

Since I mentioned in a previous post that Villarreal and Perez had each attempted murder behind bars, I am providing my source of information in case anyone may be interested:

(1) The information regarding Villarreal is found on page 262 of Pure Murder by Corey Mitchell, a book that outlines the background information on the victims as well as the perpetrators before going into the crime, the testimony and evidence, as well as the trials and convictions. The attack Villarreal perpetrated on an inmate occurred on January 12, 1994 in the Harris County Jail while jury selection for the trials was still being conducted.

(2) The information regarding Perez is on page 348 of Pure Murder. His attempted murder of a security guard occurred six years after the murders of Elizabeth and Jennifer while in prison. Also, on a condolence page for the families of Jennifer and Elizabeth, a woman who served as a jury member for Villarreal’s trial briefly discusses this attack. If you are interested, refer to one of two Wednesday, June 23, 2004 entries on this web page:

Left by Tracy on August 19th, 2008 at 7:00 am

Well, I have no idea what happened to the website link that I thought I had included above. Sorry about that….

Here is the address:

http://www.murdervictims.com/Voices/jeneliz_GB04Jun.htm

Left by Tracy on August 19th, 2008 at 7:17 am

Tabitha,

I just wanted to let you know that I did not get the impression you were claiming that Jose Medellin was a saint. Thank you for your post.

I share your belief that forgiveness is important. But, in an effort to thoughtfully examine society’s role in addressing crimes of such a magnitude that the possibility of the perpetrator returning to the ranks of society is negated, I would like to emphasize the difference between forgiveness and trust. As you know, forgiveness is something freely given by the forgiver and is not earned by the person being forgiven. However, trust, once violated, most certainly must be earned and is very difficult to restore as it would be foolish if it were too freely given. Due to the nature of forgiveness, it is not possible to force one person to forgive another, as that would violate the very definition of forgiveness as being freely given and unearned. Since forgiveness can not be enforced on an individual, it most certainly can not be enforced on society overall. Thus, forgiveness lies within the realm between God, the forgivee (victim), and the forgiven (perpetrator). It is an affair of the heart on a one-on-one basis and beyond the scope of society. Finally, one may forgive another’s actions without restoring trust in the forgiven. So, even if society did forgive the perpetrator, it is an entirely different matter for society to trust the perpetrator, which would also require believing he has changed—which, as I have already discussed, would be impossible for us to know for sure.

That being said, I also share your hope that, despite us not knowing for certain, people can and do change for the better—a belief that I tried to convey in my original post. On the other hand, I was also trying to convey that, in our finite wisdom, it is only possible for us to make the best evaluation of another person’s character by examining his or her actions. This is because, aside from God, only s/he knows his or her own heart. Once a person has demonstrated that s/he is both capable of and willing to engage in performing actions which are a menace to society, we can only use the best information available to us—namely, the person’s actions—to determine what measures we must take to protect our citizens.

Once the consequences of a person’s actions has resulted in him or her being locked away for the protection of society, s/he has lost his or her ability to operate freely; thus it becomes impossible to determine how s/he will behave within the ranks of society in the future. For example, many convicts who are released for lesser crimes will “graduate” to greater crimes once their freedom is restored while some manage to successfully integrate into the mainstream and lead productive lives. However, there are always some crimes in which the actions are so heinous and violent in scope that, since it is obvious that our predictive abilities of future behavior are faulty, the perpetrator can not ever be trusted to live within society again since the risks are just too great. I would even venture to say that some criminals can not even be trusted within the general prison population where they could needlessly endanger the guards and the other inmates. Another danger in placing such a violent offender within the mainstream is that s/he could further contribute to the “graduation in crime” of other convicts who are released on parole. Last, but not least, the agony of anticipation the victim’s families undergo as they await the date of the perpetrator’s parole-hearing simply puts them through their nightmare all over again.

I also agree with earlier posts in which the assertion that the innocent families of the perpetrator also suffer. Yet I do not believe that it is society that has forced the suffering on the perpetrator’s families, but rather it is the direct consequences of the perpetrator’s actions which brought about the suffering of the victims, the victims’ families, the perpetrator, the perpetrator’s families, and society itself. Punishment should not be meted out for vengeance, but should be used as a means to protect society–including the innocent family members of perpetrators’ families. The children, siblings, spouses, and parents of perpetrators also deserve society’s protection from those who would deprive them of their most basic right–their life.

I’m definitely not trying to single you out for a debate on this, nor am I trying to prove that I am right. Instead, I am interested in receiving feedback from you or anyone else on these ideas if it engages anyone’s interest. Again, I think this subject matter is way too important for me to close the book completely on my opinion.

If you choose not to engage further in this discussion, I wish you all the best. I will also agree with you in saying that it is a tragedy that so many lives were lost due to the horrific and stupid actions that occurred on June 23, 1993.

Take care.

Left by Tracy on August 19th, 2008 at 7:58 am

I meant to say June 24, 1993!

Sorry for the typo!

Left by Tracy on August 19th, 2008 at 8:08 am

HeHeHe…. Your intelligence is blowing me away .

Intelligent enough not to look for boyfriends on death row. HeHeHe.

Left by Anonymous on August 19th, 2008 at 8:39 am

Tabitha,
For someone who thinks we are to harsh and have no right to make these kinds of judgements you sure do make a lot of decided judgements about people yourself……….

There is no anger in my life I am grateful for my time here do not tell me to seek counseling when you know not what I have faced nor do you know what I do. I do not waste my time and compassion like you have on others can do these types of things.

You want something to make your life feel a little less insignificant try volunteering at Children’s cancer wards, you want to see something that will make you sick there you go! Or the VA hospitals, Shriners hospitals, Habitat for Humanity, instead of supporting the people who inflict this pain and irreversible trauma unto our society and our children why don’t you try The National Center for Victims of Crime……its a real eye opener. All of these things I do and so does my family, friends and community…….you can not give your time to others while cloaked in anger.

Counseling I think is what you should get……..seems to me you have the traditional, classic and all to well know complex of thinking your superiority and unwavering compassion can somehow change people who are at the core evil.

Your so good at research why don’t you go and run the numbers on how many criminals reoffend after they are supposedly “rehabilitated” My children should not have to live in a world were rape and murder are deemed acts which warrant forgiveness.
You want to give them life in prison spend the time and money to clothe, feed, and educate them? You know what I would have no problem with that IF that was something that was provided to all of the children and law abiding citizens of this country. Tell me why a child has to go without food here in America, or schooling but you want me to pay my tax dollars to keep a man that would kill and rape these children safe and alive…………I will consider life in prison for types like Jose after all who are good are given the time, money, food, shelter and education you want to provide people like him with. I make the effort to fund education, shelters, food shelves, do you? Or is all you do is to write to people who rape and kill your children?

The anger that was in my response is the fact that you are comparing people who choose there own fate and those who do not. My “explosion??” is to the point of you comparing things that are nothing a like in order to gain favor to your point. Until you yourself suffer from one of these illness you have no right at all to use them as a comparison of punishment to something as horrific as a rape and murder. As far as your research goes 20% of my survival was your so called treatments the rest was sheer will and the devotion of my doctors and family and my faith in God and myself. Who states destroy all that is evil so that which is good may flourish. Instead the innocent and good were destroyed and you wanted to save the evil.

If that is the world you want to live in fine………….not me. I will not even think about saving the evil until the good and innocent are taken care of first.

Oh and when you defend someone who raped and murdered someones child be prepared to be called names. It is how society works your are the one who is displaced in the natural evolving order of the world, because although we have come so far and still devolope every day the natural basic instinct of being apart of this planet is to defend and protect our posterity………..and you care not for this…….so yeah people people are going to call you on it.

Left by Lex on August 19th, 2008 at 10:21 am

YO, Bouncy check this:
Black is beautiful,
Tan is grand,
but White is STILL the color,
of the BIG BOSS MAN.

bouncy,bouncy on this, puta

Left by bardoo on August 19th, 2008 at 11:34 am

hey BARDOO
ROSES ARE RED
CHICANOS ARE BROWN
THOSE ARE MY PEOPLE SO DONT FUCK AROUND.
PS I DONT BOUNS ON MINI WINIS

Left by bouncy on August 19th, 2008 at 11:53 am

bouncy glad they are you people and not mine.
btw how many felonies have you done today. homie puta maricon
ha ha ha

Left by bardoo on August 19th, 2008 at 12:03 pm

Hey Bardoo,

What is a PUTA ?

Left by Justice on August 19th, 2008 at 12:27 pm

a puta is a proud brown Aztec warrior. if you want more of a definition just read what bouncie is writing. you might be smart enough to figure it out for yourself. btw i’m RICH andWHITE.

Left by bardoo on August 19th, 2008 at 12:38 pm

i just can’t believe how people insult each other and call each other names and throw racial insults. I thought this place was to discuss your opinions on the subject above. I know people feel strongly about this case, but Bardoo and Bouncy you are both out of line insulting each other that way. Bardoo, nobody cares if you are white and rich that should not matter, if you have an opinion post and don’t insult the Aztec people because of one person and the same to Bouncy you give latin people the a bad name. i don’t understand, does anyone monitor these post.

Left by Anonymous on August 19th, 2008 at 1:06 pm

As with every blog , there is always some childish minds that will post comments.
Bardoo and Bouncy are both very immature with their racial insults to each other.
Bardoo is trying to push Bouncy’s buttons to get a reaction from her / him !
It’s amazing how poorly Bouncy’s spelling is until She / He reacts , then the spelling is almost perfect , go figure !

Left by Anonymous 2 on August 19th, 2008 at 1:42 pm

i’m sorry. perhaps i am a childish,immature, rich WHITE racist.
but hey this is AMERICA—free speech is abitch ain’t it.

yo bouncie what do you have more of, felonies or out of wedlock babies. what are you doing today”hangin’, bangin’, and slangin’”

gettin wid it on the loc13 tip

Left by bardoo on August 19th, 2008 at 3:43 pm

Please honor the purpose of this board, which is not to trade insults. That kind of discourse does nothing to honor the victims. It also does nothing to boost the standing of the convicted.

No matter what the race of the victims, the loss of life is equally tragic. As far as the murders committed by the convicted in this particular case: Elizabeth Pena was Hispanic. Jennifer Ertman was white. Lourdes “Patricia” Lopez was Hispanic. Jose Ariel Acosta, the Houston man murdered by Efrain Perez on December 4, 1992, was Hispanic. All of these deaths were senseless and tragic. It matters not what race they were–they were all unique and irreplaceable human beings who were deprived of their most basic right. They were loved by their families and friends. They will always be cherished and missed.

Remembering the victims . . .

Left by Tracy on August 19th, 2008 at 4:20 pm

Tracy,

I am really enjoying reading your posts. You are very well spoken.
I will respond to you tonight when I have a bit more time.

To respond to all of the other posts:

I was not looking for a death row inmate boyfriend, both my husband and my church were fully aware that I was writing to an inmate. Our religion teaches forgiveness to all even the people who deserve it the least.

While I am against the death penalty I am not against life without the possibilty of parole. I believe that some people deserve to be in prison, however I believe that God decides when it is our time not man.

As far as the word Puta - this means bitch in Spanish and is a horrible name to call anyone.

Lex as far as my volunteering - my husband volunteers for Habitat for Humanity, I work one Saturday a month for a food bank supplying food to the homeless and we also do a street outreach program. We want to make the world a better place not worse. We both strongly feel that love and not hate / bitterness will change the world. I have lost a very close family member to cancer this is why I chose to work in research. This is probably the number one reason people choose to work in research. Also Lex, I am interested in any scripture in the New Testament that supports the death penalty?

If people on this board choose to call me names, so be it. But Lex you don’t know me and to be honest I am glad that I don’t know you. You seem to be very nasty when making a point. I think it is fine if you do not agree with me but why do you have to come across in such a manner?

Tabitha

Left by Tabitha on August 19th, 2008 at 4:41 pm

An Eye for an Eye

Enough said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Left by Lex on August 19th, 2008 at 4:47 pm

Oh and by the way check the old testament……..yep capital punishment!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Numbers 35:31 The Penalty for murder is death

Left by Lex on August 19th, 2008 at 4:54 pm

Everyone please take it down a notch and knock out the racist remarks and general assholerie to each other.

Left by Robbie Cooper on August 19th, 2008 at 5:47 pm

I just read several earlier posts which posed the question of why the girls were walking home alone that night. I also wondered the same thing. This question was cleared up for me when I read Pure Murder. Since there has not yet been a response to this question, here goes:

Elizabeth’s parents were delighted in her friendship with Jennifer, who showed maturity beyond her 14 years and never got into trouble. They knew how Jennifer’s parents raised her and felt perfectly safe knowing their daughter was accompanied by Jennifer that night they went to visit their friends. Both sets of parents believed their daughters were responsible enough to enjoy an 11:30 summer curfew to enable them to spend time at their friend’s home. Sadly, they were indeed demonstrating responsibility for their curfew by taking a shortcut that night to make it home in time.

But, neither set of parents expected their children to walk home. Jennifer’s parents always made it clear that she could call them any time to come pick her up–no questions asked. They also made sure that she always had cash on her so that she could call a cab. Between Jennifer and Elizabeth, the girls had $40 on them that night.

Who knows why they decided to walk instead of calling their parents, calling a cab, or asking their friend’s parents for a ride home. They likely opted to save their money for shopping (every teen girl’s favorite past-time) that weekend and figured they would be home in no time by taking a familiar shortcut in their neighborhood. By taking the shortcut, they must have reasoned, not only would they get home faster, but they would also avoid passing a sexually-oriented business located along the busy, well-lit route they had taken on their way to visit their friend.

Unfortunately, a fatal choice it turned out to be. What may have been a reasonably safe shortcut for them by day certainly was not by night. Yet it does not reflect anything but how innocent and naïve these little girls were to believe that they could safely walk through that park alone that night. They are not to blame for this, nor or their parents who wanted to make sure that they got a safe ride home after a summer day spent frolicking with their friends. Elizabeth’s father always tried to warn her that there were unsavory people in this world who would love to hurt her. But, due to their lack of exposure to such things, such evil was impossible for them to wrap their minds around. No teen I have ever known has ever believed anything bad could happen to him/her, despite warnings.

Left by Tracy on August 19th, 2008 at 7:07 pm

You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.’ But now I tell you, do no take revenge on someone who does you wrong. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, let him slap your left cheek too…You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your friends, hate your enemies.’ But now I tell you: love your enemies, and pray for those who mistreat you so that you will become children of your Father in heaven. For he makes his sun to shine on bad and good people alike, and gives rain to those who do right and those who do wrong.” Matthew 5:38-39, 43-45 (Good News).

“Whichever one of you committed no sin may throw the first stone at her.” John 8:7 (Good News).

“If someone does evil to you, do not pay him back with evil. Do everything possible on your part to live at peace with all. Never take revenge, my friends, but instead let God’s wrath do it. Do not let evil defeat you, instead, conquer evil with good.” Romans 12:17-19, 21

The scripture speaks for itself.

Christians must direct the world in a total commitment to nonviolence and peace as public policy. All violent systems, structures, and ideologies should be challenged to their very core.

Left by Anonymous on August 19th, 2008 at 8:00 pm

Genesis 1:27 “God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.”

Genesis 9:6 “Whoever sheds man’s blood, By man his blood shall be shed, For in the image of God He made man.”

Exodus 21:12 “He who strikes a man so that he dies shall surely be put to death.”

Leviticus 24:17 “If a man takes the life of any human being, he shall surely be put to death.”

Do I need to get the verses where Jesus gave deference to God’s Law?

Left by No2Liberals on August 19th, 2008 at 8:25 pm

You are quoting the OLD TESTAMENT.

Since the Bible teaches these things concerning the Old Testament then we should not live according to the Ten Commandments or any other Old Testament mandate. To go back to the Old Testament is to go back to a time when sin could not be removed. Thus, “Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace” (Galatians 5:4). Since the law of Moses was a shadow, contained faults, and could not take away sins, why would anyone want to live under the Old Testament?

Old or New Testament, Which Should We Follow? by Chuck Northrop © 1993

Left by Tabitha on August 19th, 2008 at 8:52 pm

So you are saying God’s Law can be or should be abrogated?
Not to me, it all applies.
Abrogations are for the pathetic tome known as the koran.

Left by No2Liberals on August 19th, 2008 at 9:36 pm

Yeah I know I am but you can’t have the old with out the new and I actually called my pastor on that before I posted it and his words exactly…as I questioned him on using from the old testament myself….you can not have the new with out the old……….and although progression was made unto us through the new testament God’s law and words should be taken as written not as the shepherds of modern flocks wants us to live. If you live by the bible then live by it and not the interpretation of it by your shepherd. God’s law and word shall be heard and adhered to otherwise you are worshiping falsely to the leader of your flock and not the word of God as written,

Do you not love thy neighbor? Cause that is Old Testament as well.

With out the Old Testament………there is no new!!!!

You say with such shock and disdain in regards to Old Testament…..Do you only serve Jesus………..With out God there is no Jesus people who only go by the new testament, which by the way has been altered 262 times since 1683 where as the Old Testament has not been altered, then you are forsaking God

Remember the Holy Trinity!!!!!!

Left by Lex on August 20th, 2008 at 8:56 am

Hi Tracy,

I so much enjoy reading your posts , they are so well written and expressed.
Going back to a question you posed earlier , Peter Cantu still has one appeal before the courts , once this is denied , and it will be , his execution date will be set. The chances of Perez & Villareal getting paroled are very slim indeed , just based on the horrifics and media attention of their crimes. Also , the fact that they both attempted murder in prison will not help them at all.
It certainly was a fatal choice for the girls to walk through the park that night , but , why can’t two young girls walk home safely anywhere ? I am not familiar with Houston , was that considered a bad part of town , if so , they should have called the parents.
The fact that the Sandoval brothers did not call 911 , knowing something bad was going down that might , have saved the girls. In my opinion , they are as guilty as the others.
One terrible decision that fateful night caused so much grief and heartache for all the families involved.
looking forward to your future posts.
Best regards.

Left by Ron on August 20th, 2008 at 10:30 am

Lex,

I really don’t feel like debating you tonight.

What your pastor says holds little weight with me.
Everyone interprets the Bible differently, every church, every faith.
I just absolutely do not care what you think.
If you want a reaction from me, you aren’t going to get it.
I think you are a mean and judgemental person. I really just do not like you. From this moment on, I will not respond to your posts because you are not worth my time. Did you mention to your pastor the profanity you used with me the other day? Remember this?

“(I am sorry for this reaction everyone but) FUCK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! he put himself there he chose his course in life……he made the decision to be where he was to take a life………………I was preparing to die and I did nothing to deserve so don’t even fucking go there!!!!!!!!!! you ignorant, higher than thou art, little elitist snob…”

Lex your a hypocrite and to call me ignorant when your only intelligent argument is to curse me out - that’s actually funny.

Good-Bye Lex!!!!!!

Left by Tabitha on August 20th, 2008 at 8:19 pm

Tabitha, I have to say that I think that you are a nice person for what you do and believe. I have been writting Peter Cantu for about 3 years now and I was touched by what you said about Jose. There is a lot of judgemental people out there that do not understand, they simply think we are crazy, they do not understand that people are capable of change.

Candace I also think that it was GREAT that Jose knew a person like you with all the hate towards him, he needed that. Your a great, kind hearted person and don’t let anyone tell you different.

Lex, you really have some anger issues. You lash out at people who have a different opinion. I am sorry about what you went through and glad that you are doing better, but understand that even those that do wrong need someone. It does not have to be you but don’t judge those that do. Also quit quoting the bible so much because you dont even believe in forgiveness.

Left by Patricia on August 21st, 2008 at 12:51 am

Hi, Ron . . .

Thank you for your response. I have enjoyed your posts, too!

Thanks for the info on Cantu. I find it so strange that he, being the first tried, is the last of these guys to go through his final appeal. That just doesn’t make sense to me. Is the system arbitrary with respect to scheduling appeal hearings and schedulings or was there some type of technicality with Cantu’s case? I haven’t come across any information on this.

You are absolutely correct that the girls should have had the right to walk safely back home in their own neighborhood. They were minding their own business and certainly not impinging on the rights of others.

I am not from Houston, so I have no first-hand experience of the neighborhood. From what I have read about the case (especially from Houston’s local reporting on it), at the time of the murders the park was considered to be a reasonably safe place to be during the day, but had increasingly been attracting the local lowlife at night (drug dealing/consumption, gangs, etc.). In 1993, it seems as though the park was near the beginning of an ongoing downward decline. One article I read (I think it was dated about three to five years ago) quoted a man who said the park had become so bad in recent years that not even he, as a man, would ride his bike there anymore; he described an incident in which a seemingly homeless drug addict had tried to steal his bike while he was on it! I know the community members who live in the neighborhoods around the park were very angry and demanded city officials to take measures to address the increasing criminal activity.

I have gotten the impression, from what I have read, that the girls had never before spent time at the park at night; so, they probably had no idea that a place so familiar to them by day could become such an “underworld” or “alternate universe,” so to speak, by night. Familiarity coaxes us into lowering our guard, so the girls likely did not view walking through such familiar ground as a threat. Sure, they should have gotten a ride, but, again, it was their very naïveté and innocence of the ways of the world that influenced that fateful decision. Since they had unwittingly let the time slip away and realized that their curfew was imminent, they may also have deducted that they could make it home by way of the shortcut before a cab could even arrive. They also may have felt that they would be inconveniencing their parents or the parents of their friends at that hour asking for a ride at the last minute when they knew that they were probably in bed (despite their parents telling them they would come pick them up anytime, anywhere–no questions asked).

Just the mere thought of how inconceivable it was to them that anyone in their familiar neighborhood was capable of hurting them like that makes what happened to them unbearable. These innocents had a trust in the goodness of the world–and the fact that such ingenuous trust was violated so viciously simply breaks my heart. It is so unbelievably sad that the worst thing they could possibly imagine happening that night was being scolded by their parents for being a few minutes late for their curfew, and that it was this thought which was their foremost concern as they scurried down that fateful path on their way home that evening.

It is typical for young teens to believe, despite hearing about bad things happening to others, that nothing bad will ever happen to them. I found this young girl’s judge-mandated essay on this case interesting:

http://www.murdervictims.com/Voices/jeneliz_GB05Jun.htm

(See Kari’s entry on Tuesday, June 21, 2005)

Hooray for this judge. I bet he has a daughter.

Speaking of fathers: While both mothers and fathers who have lost young children are encumbered with overwhelming grief for the rest of their lives, I believe that the fathers of Jennifer and Elizabeth (as well as the fathers of other murdered children) carry a unique burden. This is not to say that the mothers do not have their own special burden as well, but what I mean is that fathers are often compelled to assume the role of protector in their children’s lives. Considering this, I believe that the fathers of victims often beat themselves up undeservedly about not being able to protect their child at his/her greatest hour of need and that this continues to grind away at them every day as the years go by. It grieves me every time I see Mr. Pena or Mr. Ertman make a statement and see how much they are still suffering.

Warm regards.

Left by Tracy on August 21st, 2008 at 1:37 am

Tabitha,

I had intended to respond to one of your earlier posts, but, given the heat currently circulating, I feel that I should wait until I have the time to properly discuss my belief in how the New Testament relates to the Old in an effort to illustrate how, in my view, this relates to the topic of this thread. I just do not have the time right now to be able to approach this topic with the amount of thoughtfulness, sensitivity, grace, and humility that it requires. I also do not want to contribute to causing a “scripture war” in which scripture is reduced to a weapon used to browbeat others or use it out of context to make a point. I’m not accusing anyone of doing that, but just suggest that we should all approach this discussion with a bit more grace and respect.

I am about to embark on a very busy schedule over the next few months and regret that I will not be able to check in on this board as much as I would like (although that may be a good thing for all of you since I will not be clogging up the board as much with my long-winded posts!). I will, however, still be checking in from time to time to read everyone’s posts and make a few of my own.

To all: I’ve enjoyed reading this board and everyone’s point of view. Please remember–it IS possible for us to be friends here (or, at the very least, be respectful to each other)!
Take good care.

Left by Tracy on August 21st, 2008 at 2:27 am

Patricia,

I just wanted to say that I think you, along with Tabitha and Candace, must be very gracious people for reaching out to offer friendship to those on Death Row who are not only lonely, but face the condemnation of the world. I can’t imagine what it would be like for them to know that they are hated by so many people (though I do not personally hate them, but hate their actions and the consequences of their actions).

I also wanted to say that I do not think any of you are crazy. I wish everyone could have a civilized conversation on this board in discussing our views. It is certainly a worthwhile endeavor to learn more from each other about human nature and what we can do to improve the world.

I also think that the three of you have guts to post on a blog where you know that you are the minority in your views and that you will be attacked for stating your opinion and beliefs. You have all presented some interesting and valid points. Too bad Candace no longer posts, though I can hardly blame her.

Best wishes.

Left by Tracy on August 21st, 2008 at 5:29 am

Patricia,

Thank you so much for your post. I do not feel so alone!
I am glad that you are currently writing Peter Cantu. I do not know him personally but I am under the belief that everyone has good in them, it’s just that sometimes we as humans make extremely bad choices that will effect us for the rest of our lives. Everyone deserves forgiveness because it is the right thing to do. Also, how many of us are the same person that we were at 18? People mature and change as they get older.

I have thought about writing to Peter but I do not know that I could go through this again. I have so many regrets in my life but befriending Jose is not one of them. My only regret is that I got to “busy” to continue writing him.

Tracy -

I appreciate your posts so much. You are extremely well spoken.
I hope that you will post again soon when you are not so busy.
I too came to this board with the intention of learning from people who do not share my opinion. I knew that I would not be popular but I did not expect the anger and profanity I received in return.

I want everyone on the board to know that I am not here to fight / argue with you. I am curious to all of your opinions but I think we can do it without the name calling.

Tabitha

Left by Tabitha on August 21st, 2008 at 6:03 am

Tracy,

Sorry you won’t be posting as much , you will be missed !

Your long - winded posts were a joy to read , you made so much sense about everything.

Best of luck on your busy schedule , look forward to having you back.

Sincere regards.

Left by Ron on August 21st, 2008 at 9:29 am

Tracy
First I would like to say thank you and I hope that you can get back when you have time. It was nice to read those words and see that someone understands why I write him and my point of view. Again I enjoy reading your post and Thanks!

Tabitha
You know if you have thought about writing him you should, you know he is an awesome guy. I go visit him and we write all the time. I agree with you that a person is not the same as they were when they were 18 he is 33 and is a GREAT person he is remorseful for what he did and accepts his punishment. I am sure that Jose appreciated your friendship and understood. Tabitha you have a great heart.

Left by Patricia on August 21st, 2008 at 5:56 pm

Patricia,

I think that I will send him a letter. Please tell him to look for it.
At 18 we make so many awful decisions and what happened that night was horrific and I am so sorry for the victims but these men have been on death row for 15 years. They have grown up there and they are different.

Something that is continually brought up on this board is that women who write death row inmates are mentally ill, uneducated or looking for a boyfriend. We have nothing to prove to anyone here but perhaps we can give a glimpse into the actual people who chose to befriend an inmate… There are so many things that people can do to make the world better and there are so many lessons to be learned from everyone - especially those who are currently on death row.

There are people who believe that we are being manipulated by our pen pals but what they don’t realize is there is NOTHING for these men to gain. The prison restrictions in Texas are strong enough that we can send them almost nothing. We are reaching out to someone who is isolated - regardless of whether or not the person deserves it - everyone is worthy of compassion and forgiveness. I have been so blessed in my life and I feel that my calling is to reach out to as many people as possible and make a difference in any way possible. While this is a VERY unpopular cause someone has to reach out to this group of individuals.

Revenge does not bring about closure - it ignites more hatred.
If we want the world to be a better place then we need to forgive. There is so much hatred on this board that it is sad. We are all human and regardless of our different opinions we should respect one another.

Tabitha

Left by Tabitha on August 21st, 2008 at 8:56 pm

Tabitha,
I think that’s a great idea and ask him to give you my e-mail address so that we can talk on a more personal note, if you would like. You know when I first made the decision to write him I was scared because I didn’t know what to expect but in return I found a GREAT friend. My whole family was and still is against our friendship and say a lot of what most of these people on here say but I am a very open minded, understanding, and forgiving person with a big heart. I agree with you everybody needs somebody, even those who have done the worst thing possible.
I have had to justify being anti death penalty to many friends, family and strangers. Along the way I have been judged and called names and like you said “mentally ill” I am not, I am currently in school for my BSN in Nursing so I am not uneducated.
Most pen pals are a way for the inmate to reach out or keep up with what they call the “freeworld”. They just want someone to care for them and some of their families even turn away. So I agree with everything you said Tabitha and like I said your a good person and Peter would like to hear from you and so would I. So let me know how it goes.

Left by Patricia on August 21st, 2008 at 9:25 pm

Patricia,

I just wrote him and gave him mine to give to you. I suppose we were thinking the same thing. I too am college educated. I currently work in science and research and I am married. I am none of the things that the people here seem to think. My church is behind me , my husband and even my some of my friends. I am finding as far as my family or older people in my life - they tend to not like it but when Jose died my mother was there to comfort me. I am in my late twenties and I have formed my own opinions and researched the death penalty a lot after befriending Jose. Even when in his last years I was “too busy” I always thought of him. I saw him as a person not a monster. I am so sorry for not friending him until the end. I am actually working with another friend right now on a web page regarding human rights violations and we will be including the death penalty. We should have it up within a month.

Tabitha

Left by Tabitha on August 21st, 2008 at 9:46 pm

Jennifer Ertman’s dad, Randy Ertman, was about to give an interview regarding the missing girls to a local television reporter when the call came over a cameraman’s police scanner that two bodies had been found. Randy commandeered the news van and went to the scene that was now bustling with police activity. Randy Ertman appeared on the local news that evening, screaming at the police officers who were struggling to hold him back, “Does she have blond hair? Does she have blond hair?!!?” Fortunately, they did manage to keep Randy from entering the woods and seeing his daughter’s brutalized body and that of her friend Elizabeth, but they were unable to escape that fate themselves. I saw hardened, lifelong cops get tears in their eyes when talking about the scene more than a year later. The bodies were very badly decomposed, even for four days in Houston’s brutal summer heat and humidity, particularly in the head, neck and genital areas. The medical examiner later testified that this is how she could be sure as to the horrible brutality of the rapes, beatings and murders.
The gang members ran and grabbed Elizabeth and pulled her down the incline, off of the tracks. Testimony showed that Jenny had gotten free and could have run away but returned to Elizabeth when she cried out for Jenny to help her.

For the next hour or so, these beautiful, innocent young girls were subjected to the most brutal gang rapes that most of the investigating officers had ever encountered. The confessions of the gang members that were used at trial indicated that there was never less than 2 men on each of the girls at any one time and that the girls were repeatedly raped orally, anally and vaginally for the entire hour. One of the gang members later said during the brag session that by the time he got to one of the girls, “she was loose and sloppy.” One of the boys boasted of having ‘virgin blood’ on him.

The 14-year-old juvenile later testified that he had gone back and forth between his brother and Peter Cantu since they were the only ones there that he really knew and kept urging them to leave. He said he was told repeatedly by Peter Cantu to “get some”. He raped Jennifer and was later sentenced to 40 years for aggravated sexual assault, which was the maximum sentence for a juvenile.

When the rapes finally ended, the horror was not over. The gang members took Jenny and Elizabeth from the clearing into a wooded area, leaving the juvenile behind, saying he was “too little to watch”. Jenny was strangled with the belt of Sean O’Brien, with two murderers pulling, one on each side, until the belt broke. Part of the belt was left at the murder scene, the rest was found in O’Brien’s home. After the belt broke, the killers used her own shoelaces to finish their job. Medellin later complained that “the bitch wouldn’t die” and that it would have been “easier with a gun”. Elizabeth was also strangled with her shoelaces, after crying and begging the gang members not to kill them; bargaining, offering to give them her phone number so they could get together again.

The medical examiner testified that Elizabeth’s two front teeth were knocked out of her brutalized mouth before she died and that two of Jennifer’s ribs were broken after she had died. Testimony showed that the girls’ bodies were kicked and their necks were stomped on after the strangulations in order to “make sure that they were really dead.”

The juvenile pled guilty to his charge and his sentence will be reviewed when he turns 18, at which time he could be released. The other five were tried for capital murder in Harris County, Texas, convicted and sentenced to death. I attended all five trials with the Ertmans and know too well the awful things that they and the Penas had to hear and see in the course of seeing Justice served for their girls.

Two VERY important things in the criminal justice system have changed as a result of these murders. After the trial of Peter Cantu, Judge Bill Harmon allowed the family members to address the convicted. This had not previously been done in Texas courts and now is done as a matter of routine.

The other change came from the Texas Department of Corrections which instituted a new policy allowing victims’ families the choice and right to view the execution of their perpetrators.

I had an ever-swaying opinion on the death penalty before this happened to people I know, before I watched the justice system at work firsthand. I have now come to believe that there are some crimes so heinous, so unconscionable that there can be no other appropriate punishment than the death penalty.

Charlene Hall.
Good on you, Charlene. Another woman that gets it, and weeps for the one’s who truly deserve it.

Left by No2Liberals on August 21st, 2008 at 10:56 pm

Tabitha,I just finished writing him a letter as well and told him about you. I am also married and he supports it, I have a 7 year old son and I am in my early twenties. I have never looked at Peter as a monster but as a really good friend and you will see what I mean when he writes you back.
I actually grew up in Houston and then moved away to go to school but just send me an e-mail and we can really get to know each other better. Also I wanted to let you know Jose had a lot of support in the end, so he was loved I hope that helps like I said before I am sure that he understood.

Left by Patricia on August 21st, 2008 at 11:23 pm

Patricia & Tabitha,

It’s nice that you bring a little ray of sunshine in to your friend’s lives , we all know how miserable it is on Texas death row , away from the real world.

Just don’t ever forget what put them there , no matter how much they change , do not lose sight of Jennifer & Elizabeth , they are never mentioned in your posts. They are the REAL victims here !

Left by Ron on August 22nd, 2008 at 10:44 am

Ron,

I will not forget the crime or the victims. I feel very badly for the families of the victims. I cannot begin to imagine what they have gone through. I am so sorry for the loss of these two beautiful girls. No one deserves to endure violence and death.

I am beginning to believe many people posting here are from Texas. I am from Philadelphia and I do not believe that the case got as much exposure here. I did not know about this crime until I began writing to Jose. I then read everything I could online about the crime.

I did not know about the case before befriending Jose, however upon learning of the crime I continued to write him. I knew that he was not the same person he was at 18 and I liked him so much as a person. We all sin and we are entitled to forgiveness and love.

Tabitha

Left by Tabitha on August 22nd, 2008 at 4:44 pm

Ron
I have never forgotten Jennifer and Elizabeth and my heart goes out to their families and I can never imagine what they went through. Don’t think that I don’t know who is to blame for this and guess what Peter knows his part in this and he takes his responsability.
But like Tabitha said people are not the same they change and unlike her I am from Texas and from Houston as a matter of fact. Not to far from where this happened but I knew what Peter did when I wrote him and I found a great friend.

Left by Patricia on August 22nd, 2008 at 6:58 pm

I have to say that after reading about the thuglovers backgrounds, I am totally unimpressed. You’re idiots on this board and you’re idiots in real life. You are not fooling anyone by pretending to be something you are not.

Left by Anonymous on August 23rd, 2008 at 7:52 am

There are people who believe that we are being manipulated by our pen pals but what they don’t realize is there is NOTHING for these men to gain.

Are you lying, stupid, or both? You can have money deposited in their accounts. You can also send money to their attorneys.

Left by Anonymous on August 23rd, 2008 at 7:57 am

Dear Anonymous,

I have NEVER deposited money into Jose’s account nor did he ask for it. Furthermore I do not have to pretend to be something I am not. I am who I am and if you do not like it TOO BAD. My opinions will not change. You may call me an idiot / thug lover or any other name that you so please but it will not change a thing.

Left by Tabitha on August 23rd, 2008 at 9:26 am

You know what I do not understand why do people have to resort to name calling because they have a different opinion. You know who that makes look like an idiot YOU. I do not care what you or anybody thinks about what i do, my opinions, or choices i respect your opinions and only ask the same.
Anonymous, why do you post Anonymous. How would you know that we are lying, have you ever written a death row inmate? So to answer your question, I am in no way manipulated and stupid. Also how can you say that I am pretending to be someone I am not do you know me? I think that you are very angry, and I am who I am.

Left by Patricia on August 23rd, 2008 at 12:03 pm

Patricia,

Good point - “Anonymous” - The name says it all.

Tabitha

Left by Tabitha on August 23rd, 2008 at 5:53 pm

You lied when you said “these men having nothing to gain.” All these deathrow penpal forums are filled with stories about suckers like you being hit up for cash all the time. I hate to break it to you girls but you do not merely have a difference of opinion. You are morally bankrupt, exhibit poor judgment, and exhibit a personality disorder called hybristophilia. Go see psychiatrists.

Left by Anonymous on August 24th, 2008 at 7:51 am

Hybristophilia is a paraphilia involving being sexually aroused or attracted to people who have committed an outrage or a gruesome crime. In popular culture, this phenomenon is also known as the Bonnie and Clyde Syndrome. HARDLY!!!!

I am “morally bankrupt” because I do not believe in killing another human being? I believe in forgiveness. I do not believe in the death penalty because I believe it is nothing more than a revenge killing. Compassion hardly makes me “Bonnie”. As for my judgement - as long as my church and my husband are supporting me in this, I do not care what you think of my judgement. Killing these men and women will not bring back the victims, it will only create more victims. This is a cycle that needs to be broken. Love is what the world needs. I am not saying that we should let murderers go without punishment. I believe in the prison system - I do not believe in the death penalty for both moral and ethical reasons. As I previously mentioned I have never deposited money into an inmate account. What I offer is hope, hope for forgiveness and eternal life. Treasures that cannot be deposited into an earthly account.

Left by Tabitha on August 24th, 2008 at 5:17 pm

Tabitha
I could not have said it better but you know you cannot argue with ignorance and that is exactly what “Anonymous” is. We are the bad people because we do not believe in killing another human being, because we believe in redemption and forgivness and the goodness of people and the belief that people can change. I have never condoned what Peter or any other murderer did but I do not believe that killing them brings any justice. I will not apologize for my beliefs or my friendship and really “Anonymous” I DO NOT care what you or any other person think about it so quit hiding who YOU really are and take all your anger and childish close minded opinions elsewhere. You really need to discover forgivness because with all the hate you have you are going to need it.

Left by Patricia on August 24th, 2008 at 5:42 pm

Would this qualify as to N.T. Scripture supporting the death penalty:

Romans 13:1-4

Matt. 26:52 (Jesus affirms Gen. 9:6)

Acts 25:11

I know this is O.T. but the commandment (in Hebrew) is
“thou shalt not muder”.This is the ‘original language or ‘Hebrew
translation’. I think that’s how you refer to it.

Left by location on August 26th, 2008 at 8:44 pm

Regarding the O.T. Scripture just referenced, they are from the NKJV.

Left by location on August 26th, 2008 at 9:03 pm

Hi Location-

“Thou shalt not murder.”

Suporting the death penalty is saying that we can chose who we murder? If you execute someone are you not taking a life?
What gives you or anyone else the right to decide if you are able to take a life? The choice is not up to you.

The Bible teaches compassion and forgivenss for those who have sinned. We are all sinners.

[Editor --- You must have also forgotten that verse about "an eye for an eye".

But that's beside the point. We also have this thing here called "separation of church and state", which means that "religion" and religious values don't matter and dont' come into play. What does matter is the state's legal definition of murder and the consequences thereof.]

Left by AnonymousIII on August 28th, 2008 at 5:40 am

What i mean is the Biblical commandment is “thou shalt not murder”
NOT “thou shalt not kill. You said above that there is no N.T.
scripture supporting the death penalty. I just gave you three examples. Editor, your comment has nothing to do with the woman
who says there is no N.T. Scripture supporting the death penalty.I’m
fully aware of the so called church/state controversy. Our laws and the people who we elected made the death penalty legal. That is what Romans 13: 1-4 is about.
Now you will say we have no right to take a life but we do. It’s being done all the time in the USA. But some state’s have chosen NOT to have the death penalty. At judgement day before Christ, are you going to argue with Him that He has no right to condemm any one to hell. We ARE all sinners but some have been saved by the Grace of God (Eph. 2: 8-9)

Left by location on August 29th, 2008 at 8:33 pm

I don’t think your bad people because you believe in redemption and forgiveness. Some folks just don’t deserve it; these animals definitely do not. There is no changing these guys, if you were to let them out of prison they would go back to exactly what they were doing before.

It’s comforting to know I could rape your daughter anally and vaginally, try strangling her with a belt and when that doesn’t work use my shoestring to kill her. Then kick her until I knock in all of her teeth and break a few ribs and facial bones just to be sure she is dead and you would forgive me. Oh, I forgot. Four of my buddies were with me cheering it on and joining in like it was the ninth inning with the bases loaded.

If you want to forgive people like this; buddy that’s your problem.

Left by Anonymous on September 2nd, 2008 at 7:48 am

Your right Anonymous it is my problem, not yours so leave it alone. Oh and this is Patricia

Left by Anonymous on September 2nd, 2008 at 6:50 pm

Will someone who says there is no N.T. support for the death penalty
please refute the three examples I gave in my Aug. 26 post. Thanks !

Left by location on September 2nd, 2008 at 11:31 pm

Hey Tabitha, havent heard anything from you in a while and just wanted to see if you are ok. Has he wrote you back?

Left by Patricia on September 4th, 2008 at 9:05 pm

Written…has he written you.
Or did you mean has he rode her back?

Left by No2Liberals on September 4th, 2008 at 9:14 pm

Heh. Only in her dreams…

Left by Anonymous on September 6th, 2008 at 7:59 am

Wow. For those of you writing and establishing pen pal relationships with these sub-human pieces of scum, it’s pretty shocking. I agree with Lex. Why don’t you take that effort and put it to some good use and help those in need who haven’t brutally raped and murdered. There’s plenty of people in the world who’ve lived good lives and here you are writing to these evil pieces of crap. Unreal.

I suspect you don’t have kids of your own. If you do, think about them being brutally raped for an hour by a group of thugs, then being beaten and choked to death. And remember, for three of them, Medellin, Cantu, and O’ Brien, they admitted to an earlier killing of a woman who sought their help when her car broke down. She was brutally raped, and then stabbed to death, had her throat slashed, and was stabbed in the abdomen until her intestines poured out.

These evil pr*cks got what they deserved based on their own actions and it wouldn’t be enough punishment for them to sit in solitary confinement for the rest of their lives. They certainly deserve death but unfortunately it has to be carried out humanely.

If they ever did something like that to a child of mine, I’d like to have the opportunity to end their lives with my bare hands.

And for the other poster who contends that Medellin may have been present but did not participate, wake up. He showed up at Cantu’s house with blood all over him and bragging. He’s about as innocent as Charles Manson and as I noted, he killed before he killed these two girls. Use some common sense.

Left by Anthony on November 9th, 2008 at 3:32 am

if a piece of shit on death row is a fat ugly, sweaty 50 year old man, do the stupid bitches on this blog write to them and defend them. Or if you are a child molester, rapist and murderer, but happen to be young, ok looking and buff they will write to you and defend you till the end (hahahahahah) says it all about desperate bitches like Candice, too ugly/fat/stupid to get a real boyfriend arent you, prove me wrong, tell me any deathrower over 50 you write to, thought not u dumb bitch. I LAUGHED so loud when your “friend” was killed, i was so happy i had a wank!!!! I wish all the bad luck and ills on you and all your family.

Left by davee06 on March 8th, 2009 at 6:29 am