Michael Schiavo is a wretched excuse for a man. He’s exactly the type of low-life user of women who gives all men a bad name. We should band together, go down to Florida, and quite frankly just beat the ever-livin’ shit out of him, until he cries “uncle” and signs divorce papers.

Jeff: Why do you think so?

Are you familiar with Michael’s behavior?

The undisputed facts:

*Michael has withheld even the most basic of therapeutic treatments and care for Terri; she has been kept inside the hospice facility, never going outdoors and with the shades drawn closed, for more than 4 years.

*Michael claims to love his wife and to have always stood by her, while having lived with and fathered 2 children by another woman, whom he identifies as his fiancée, for the last 10 years.

*Michael has spent very little of the settlement money he received for the malpractice suit on Terri’s care, though he had promised to do so.

*Michael has spent more of the settlement money hiring euthanasia advocacy lawyer George Felos, than he has on Terri’s care.

*Michael never once mentioned Terri’s alleged “death wishes” until after he had secured the settlement money.

*Michael has allowed himself to be steered into clearly illegal and immoral behavior by Felos, who as a board member of the hospice facility to which Terri was moved in 2000, clearly had a conflict of interest in clearing the way for her transfer; also, Terri did not then, nor does she now, meet the criteria for hospice care and thus it was illegal for her to be transferred there according to Medicaid rules. Florida taxpayers are footing the bill–illegally–of killing Terri.

What about those things indicate that Michael is anything LESS that a wretched excuse for a man?

Smother her with a pillow? Wow, that’s a perspective on the whole Schiavo affair that I hadn’t heard yet.

Jeff- just as there are questions about Michael Schiavo’s motivations there are questions about Terri’s parents- both regarding some of their attacks on Schiavo and their reports of Terri’s progress. That’s why the only sensible place to work out these questions is in court. Alas, that has already been done. Since the judges who have seen this case know a great deal more about the law and the facts of the case than I do I think people should take the word of the court on this.

Preston: it is known that Judge Greer has made numerous judgements based on erroneous “facts” and equally erroneous interpretations of facts, most clearly in his lack of understanding of medical testimony. Yet, because “he is the judge” and his ego rules him as surely as gravity keeps the rest of us on the earth’s surface, he staunchly refuses to even consider the possibility that his rulings may be wrong. And appellate courts refuse to even look at errors of fact in lower court rulings, preferring only to rule on whether or not laws were improperly applied. Thus, Terri’s parents are denied at every turn what every American citizen believes deeply in their hearts to be their constitutional right: to have SOMEBODY in authority actually look at new evidence (better diagnostic testing for PVS–testing that has not been done, along with even more rudimentary testing that was denied on the orders of Michael; the findings/statements of far more prominent–and simply far more–neurologists that directly contradicts the testimony of the court appointed neurologists, enough so to clearly call into question the diagnosis of PVS; and the obvious conflict of interest present in Michael’s treatment of Terri and his behavior toward his legal vows of marriage).

I quite frankly don’t understand those who back, even in merely intellectual terms, these Disciples of Death. Evil is evil, and it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see the evil in Michael’s and Felos’ agenda, and the complete moral bankruptcy and narcissism in Judge Greer’s constant denials.

I feel that the majority of Americans disagree with you when it comes to the ‘disciples of death’: up to 85% would not want to continue living in Terri Schiavo’s condition. Most people do not feel that life must go on despite tremendous pain or a calamitous deterioration in mental capacity. You may disagree with that and choose differently for yourself but it is not right to impose that on others who chose to die.

But frankly, the true disciples of death are the ones grandstanding over this woman’s life while millions in this country go without healthcare. While genocide and disease is raging in Africa. This is another case that will be placed along with OJ Simpson and Elian Gonzalez: a symbolic issue that effects the life of a small handful of people while real life and death issues are ignored. Ten years from now will we regret this distraction in the way that those previous cases distracted us from Rwanda and al Qaeda?

Preston—dont’ fall out of your chair…but I agree with you completely on your last comment.

I’m in favor of right-to-die laws (more so for a person to make their own right-to-die decisions, rather than having them made by someone else).

While I agree that most people would not want to continue living in Terri’s condition, I bet even more would not want to die the way she is going to, either.

Robbie-

How about that…

I am sympathetic to the concern about the dividing lines between euthanasia and eugenics. But if we had a considered euthanasia law she wouldn’t have to starve to death.

Once again I’ll say I really don’t know anything about the specifics of this case. But I’m hoping that 10 years in the legal system has been long enough to pull out the truth of this case and to do the right thing.

Preston, if you’re using that ABC poll to support your contention about American’s desire to be starved to death, think again, bucko.

The questions were quite leading (thus, “mis-leading” in the analysis drawn from the results), stating in essence, “If you were a vegetable LIKE TERRI SCHIAVO, would you want to live?” It misrepresents Terri’s condition: she is not now, nor has she ever been, on life support any more than you are simply by feeding yourself each day. She breathes independently, and simply requires assistance being fed, due only partially to difficulties brought on by her injury. It is a fact that Dr. Hammesfahr, a Nobel Prize winning neurologist who spent over 10 hours examining Terri (as opposed to the 45 minutes the lead court appointed neurologist spent), states emphatically that Terri is capable of swallowing on her own, since she daily swallows over 2 liters of her own saliva, thus requiring no suctioning. It is mainly due to Judge Greer’s court order stating that she must not be mouth-fed.

So, if the question had been more correctly posed, say as “If you were suffering from a disability that made it somewhat difficult for you to feed yourself, even up to and including the necessity of needing a feeding tube, would you wish to be killed by dehydration and starvation?”, I strongly suspect that 85% would be cut in half at the least.

Let’s try to keep this “reality-based” and honest here, shall we?

ABC Poll: http://www.pollingreport.com/news.htm

“Schiavo suffered brain damage and has been on life support for 15 years. Doctors say she has no consciousness and her condition is irreversible. Her husband and her parents disagree about whether she would have wanted to be kept alive. Florida courts have sided with the husband and her feeding tube was removed on Friday. What’s your opinion on this case? Do you support or oppose the decision to remove Schiavo’s feeding tube?”

Support Oppose Unsure
63 28 9

“If you were in this condition, would you want to be kept alive, or not?”

Kept Alive Not Kept Alive Unsure
16 78 6

If these aren’t the facts of the case then there was perhaps an unjust ruling from the Florida courts. However, it seems to me that rather than providing safeguards so bad rulings on these matters are minimized Congress has chosen to make this a stand-alone case. That makes me very skeptical of their motives.

Blame the Democrats for Congress limiting this to Terri’s case. They made it clear they would stonewall it if it applied generally, instead of just to Terri.

I found this interesting:
http://www.miami.edu/ethics/schiavo/bioethicists%20amicus%20brief%207-27-04.pdf

I think this amicus brief redirects the focus of the case back to where it should be: what would Terri Schiavo want?

I simply wish that the passion directed at saving this woman’s life were used to better the lives of people not profiled on CNN and Inside Edition.

Why do you think those passions are NOT being so used?

Did I miss President Bush waking up to sign a law providing health care for 40 million Americans? Did Congress have a special session to stop genocide in the Sudan? I’m sure everyone feels really bad about these situations but they haven’t really gotten around to- actually doing anything about them.

So let me get this straight…

It appears that you are in favor of the US stepping in to prevent genocidal governments/dictatorships. At least in Africa. That’s good. We’re in agreement on that.

You seem to be pissed that the US left the policing of the Sudan (and Rwanda) to the UN…and hasn’t taken a lead role by sending in the troops.

But you’re simultaneously pissed at President Bush for going into Iraq to dispose of a murdering thug (who was also guilty of committing genocide)?

You know damned well that if President Bush were to send troops to the Sudan to stop the genocide, you and the rest of the Left would whine even louder than you are that we’re not over there now.

We’d have to listen to Susan and Tim and Sean cry about letting the UN lead the way, sending Jimmy over to talk to them, or maybe imposing some paper-tiger sanctions. You know, the same UN that has committed crimes as atrocious as the ones they are supposed to be preventing.

In Iraq the genocide occurred in the 1980’s (while Iraq was a US ally, incidentally).

In Sudan genocide is continuing today. Would, say, a SWAT team be willing to take the risks of injuries if there was a madman shooting innocent people in a building. Yes. Would they take those risks if he was not currently shooting people in the building? They might try other, safer measures to get him out and to protect the people inside.

No, I wouldn’t support a 150,000 troop invasion force (plus or minus a few civilian contractors). But I’m reasonably certain that the world’s only superpower can stop some militia on horseback without such extraordinary measures. Remember, we could have seriously slowed the Rwanda genocide merely by jamming the radio stations that were issuing directions to kill Tutsis.

Yeah, Saddam only used chemical weapons on the people of Kurdistan Iraq ~40 times, And continued torturing and murdering thousands upon thousands of his own countrymen in the years that followed.

I’ll never forget hearing—first hand—the stories of his atrocities when I was over there.

But hey, that’s ancient history, right? The gasing of the Kurds took place in 1988. And my first hand accounts were in 1991.

Is there a statute of limitations on genocide? Do you really beleive that Saddam has been on his best behavior and has not committed additional crimes against humanity in the years following 1988?

Don’t answer. We both know the answer. The difference is, I’m glad we’re doing something about it now. God knows that if we’d left the policing of Saddam to the UN…which is what we’ve done in the Sudan and Rwanda…Iraq would be a bigger blood bath and disaster.

You are aware of the crimes being committed by UN forces in those countries, right?

Ahem…back to Terri Shiavo. Any bets on who dies first this week: Terri or the Pope? I have a wierd gut feeling that they will die on the same day.

…are you aware that Terri’s dad suggested to Micheal that he needed to “get laid” several years ago. Are you also aware that Michael spent so much time at the Hospice that they almost got a restraining order to keep him away? Are you aware that in 15 years, she did not have ONE BED SORE!?? I worked with nursing homes for 8 years and know that bed sores are a fact of life for the bed ridden. Michael spent so much time with her the HOSPICE WAS CONCERENED! That’s not a man who wants his wife dead, it’s a man dealing with his wife’s final wishes! Stop regurgitating miss-information!!!

Terri’s husband, like all men, should have the final say when it comes to these matters– Living Will or not! After all, he has had to endure twelve years without the “services” of his wife and also stands to lose the “quality time” he will no longer enjoy with her in the form of conjugal visits. Oh sure, don’t for one-minute try to deny that it happens. Especially when it comes to Terri’s husband Michael. Everyone at the Hospice knows that at least two, sometimes three times a week he shows up and bangs her like a screen door in a hurricane. It’s all part of some type of bizarre form of physical therapy regimen or something. Anyway, that’s his excuse and he’s sticking to it.

Toobie…you’re a sick fuck.

Ogie…what part of your little rant there was an attempt to justify Michael’s infidelity? And what part was you just willfully ignoring that little aspect of this story?

Yes, a husband should have the rights of surogacy…but I still maintain that Michael disolved his own marriage, giving up those rights, the moment he took up with another woman.

WELL HOMO FELOS FINALLY GOT HIS CHILDHOOD DREAM-TO WATCH A BEAUTIFUL WOMAN ROT TO DEATH WHILE HAVING TO KNOW THAT HER ABUSER HUSBAND CAN KEEP HIS PROMISE TO “KILL HER FIRST ” AND “SEE HER ROT” AND PLAYING GOD AND BEING THE LAST THING SHE GETS TO SEE . KEEPING HER FROM HER PARENTS AND FAMILY AND ANYONE WHO TRULY DOES LOVE HER….A TRUE FAGOT DREAM COME TRUE…HE EVEN SMILES AS HE SAY’S “HER DEATH IS NOT IMINENT”…”SHE IS AT PEACE”…HE FORGOT TO TELL YOU THAT THEY PUT PARALITIC DRUGS IN HER SO CALLED “COMFORT MEDICATION” SO THAT SHE CAN NOT LOOK ANY OTHER WAY ” ACCORDING TO HER WISHES” SO THAT “FOR SOME TIME SHE WILL BE UNABLE TO TAKE HER LAST BREATH”. OHHH YES AND FELOS SAY’S SHE HAS A LOOK OF PEACE AND BEAUTY”…WHAT A HOMO HERO FELOS IS TODAY… AND NOW HE CAN GO HOME AND FUCK HIS FOOTBALL TILL HIS WORMY DICKED MAN MOUNTER COMES TO PLAY.

OH…AND DID I FORGET TO TELL YOU THAT THIS HAS ILLUMINATI SIGNATURE ON IT ? THE JUDGE MADE THE ORDER ON 9-11 TO PULL THE TUBE. THE ONLY DR’S OPINIONS THAT WERE CONSIDERED WERE THE STATE APPOINTED ONES TO HOSPICE …FELOS BY THE WAY…WORKS FOR HOSPICE . SOOOO MAKE SURE YOU STATE IN YOUR SO CALLED “LIVING WILLS” (((( NO HOSPICE)))) NO ORGAN FARMING !

I agree that the husband wants Terri dead so that he can go on with his life…and since he has a relationship with a woman and reportedly has two children by her, then the courts should have dissolved his marriage and freed him from any responsibiity for her and from any financial gain from her death, and give her power of attorney to her parents. They are the only ones with her best interest in mind.

Isn’t the Congress and Senate controlled by the Republican Party? Isn’t George Bush and Jeb Bush republicans, and wouldn’t you think one of them would have the power to stay her “execution” if they can intervene and stay a prisoner from execution on death row? I thought the President could give a presidential pardon to anyone for any reason. Aren’t the majority of the Supreme Justices republican appointed? Why are the Republicans trying to make it look like the Democratic Party wants this girl to die when THEY are the ones in control? Why doesn’t the Democratic Party stand up to this? I am a Democrat and every time I hear a Republican blame the Democrats while they are the ones in power now, I just wish their followers would see the audacity of their harpings and how they will twist and lie and decieve thier own people to keep from looking guilty.

One more thing…why starve the woman to death? If the judge wants to let her die per husband’s wishes, why not give her a shot to put her to sleep peacefully? They do it to death row prisoners. They do it to dogs and cats. If they don’t want to appoint someone to do it because it looks evil (NOTHING is more evil than starving a human to death), then put Jack Kevorkian in the room with her and leave a needle and the vials of meds he needs to perform the deed. The infamous doctor Kevorkian was a lot more humane than the Judges that are agreeing to murder her by starvation. They should be in prison…or better yet, sentenced to die by starvation.

The United States is falling apart. Since George Bush has taken control again, we have slipped into being barbarians. I am ashamed of our nation….I am ashamed of the people leading us down this path. I can see why other nations are turning against us.

God help us all.

First time on this blog. I don’t know the rules. If I break them, forgive me. Whoever you are Jeff, you are dead right in everything you have said. Terri Schiavo was not on life support. She had a feeding tube like tens of thousands of other people in this country. Should we go pull the plug on them too? How about my friend’s gdaughter who was born with uncorrectable abnormalities in her digestive tract along with a host of other medical problems, including limited brain funcition. She’s 6 now and still has that feeding tube and will as long as she lives as all surgeries have failed, but her parents love her enough to struggle to keep her alive, thankfully with the support of a wonderful children’s hospital here in Kansas. My heart goes out to Terri’s parents. They are even being denied their wishes to bury her by her evil husband. We may not be able to save Terri but we can damn well contact our state legislators to get laws enacted that protect people rather than starve and dehydrate them to death. Let’s get a grass roots effort started to stop this genocide. Thank you. Dianne

Welcome, Dianne.

There really aren’t any rules…at least none that I’ve made or had to enforce to this point.

I won’t censor people’s opinions on here. I think it’s healthy to hear other people…even if I disagree with them. Preston, for instance, is a smart and reasonable reader/commentor. We disagree on nearly everything. But he is welcome here, and I’m glad he comes back and engages me. He, and all the commentors, make this a better blog.

Probably the only reason I would edit or delete a comment is if it were threatening (to me or another reader).

I still dont’ think our the Federal Gov’ment should have gotten involved in Terri’s case. But I also think her husband did every thing wrong. Terri should still be being fed and hydrated today. It shouldn’t take an act of Congress to know that is the right thing to do.

Thank you for the welcome Robbie. I might hang around if you all don’t mind. By way of introduction, I just took a part-time consulting job as a member of an Institutional Animal Care Committee. My job is to make sure research animals are treated humanely and according to government regulations. If we ever euthanized our animals in the way Terri is being euthanized, we’d all be in jail. Part of me agrees with you that our federal government should not have gotten involved in Terri’s case or in any other individual life or death matter. But, the point is, it should not have been necessary if there had been appropriate laws in place that protected the rights of both Terri and her parents as well as her spouse. It is really very simple. Congress has the job to represent the people by passing laws that are based on the Constitutional rights of all of us. Next, it is the job of government agencies to write and enforce regulations that interpret the laws Congress passes. If there is a dispute, judges interpret the laws and regulations on a specific basis. What is missing in Terri’s case is that somewhere along the line this process failed. It amazes me that we have extremely detailed laws and regulations when it comes to things like taxes or animal research, etc. but we don’t have the same thing with regard to life and death matters. dianne

Thanks Robbie- but I have to quibble with: “Probably the only reason I would edit or delete a comment is if it were threatening (to me or another reader).”

Unless I’m mistaken my comment praising the #4 Georgia Tech Yellow Jacket baseball team were censored on this shamelessly pro-Texas blog. Censorship!

If I may continue the hijacking of this thread: I agree there is no doubt that people were unjustly losing their lives during the Hussein regime. Did this constitute genocide? I haven’t heard people claim that to be honest.

But the greater point is simply pragmatic: what was the cost of saving lives in Iraq? The Johns Hopkins research indicates that 100,000 have died (for one reason or another) sooner than they would have been expected to before the war.

From another perspective: 200 billion, 500 billion dollars (whatever number you want to use) could have been used to save _millions_ of lives from treatable diseases and malnutrition: is preventing a death from ‘genocide’ somehow more moral than preventing a death from malaria?

A final perspective: Iraq is not done- we don’t know what the result will be. We’ve smashed the hornets’ nest but we don’t know if the country will become a peaceful democracy, a Iran-allied theocracy, or a civil war. Bush’s handlers call these types of policy decisions ‘bold’ but ‘fool-hardy’ seems more apt.

All this is just to re-iterate that my- and the majority of Democrats’- opposition to this war is pragmatic: it was the wrong war at the wrong time. These conditions contrast with ongoing rape and murder of thousands and dislocation of millions in the Sudan.

Dianne: what laws do you think need to be passed? The laws on the books demand a determination of the wishes of Terri Schavo and they have consistently ruled in favor of Mr. Schiavo. Who would you have determine her fate if not a ruling on her desires while she was conscious? Congress seems to believe they should decide but most Americans want to keep those decisions for themselves.

I- like many- are unconfortable with the notion of Mr. Schiavo moving on into a relationship with another woman while maintaining to have a say in determining Terri Schiavo’s will. But I trust that this issue was brought up in court concluding that Michael Schiavo was a reliable witness to Terri Schiavo’s desires.

As for your claims to the inhumanity of removing her feeding tube: not only do experts believe that she would not feel pain (I’m not sure if this is related to the fact that large areas of her brain have deteriorated) but she is being administered morphine in the event that she did. Furthermore, it is this same coalition that is attempting to prolong Ms. Schiavo’s life now that is most adamantly against euthanasia and a more painless death.

Ok- last one:

But I can’t believe I missed this the first time:

Jeff- you said: “It is a fact that Dr. Hammesfahr, a Nobel Prize winning neurologist who spent over 10 hours examining Terri”

I had heard that he was being falsely touted as being a Nobel Prize nominee by such luminaries as Sean Hannity but I didn’t realize he’d been promoted to Nobel Prize winner so quickly!

The first citation I found online describes it thusly: “Hammesfahr, a Florida neurologist disciplined in 2003 by the Florida Board of Medicine who claims he can help Terri Schiavo, testified during an October 2002 court hearing on the Schiavo case that his claim to be a Nobel nominee is based on a letter written by Rep. Mike Bilirakis (R-FL) recommending him for the prize. But Bilirakis is not qualified to make a valid nomination under the Nobel rules.” http://mediamatters.org/items/200503220009

The more important point would be that he has been disciplined by the state of Florida for making false claims of brain regeneration after strokes (hmm….) but it is a little icky to see opponents of Michael Schiavo use any means to elevate their arguments.

Preston: I would need to read the current Florida laws and regulations to intelligently answer your question but evidently it does not matter if the spouse has deserted the marriage of the incapacitated person in one form or another as Mr. Shiavo has. He apparently still maintains guardianship since he is technically the spouse. I think this is wrong. Secondly, I believe there need to be regulations that state any diagnosis of persistent vegetative state should be reaffirmed immediately prior to removal of a feeding tube. Of course the words “reaffirmed” “diagnosis”, “immediately” etc would need to be defined also. That’s what regulations, as opposed to laws, do. They get down to the details. Regulations are written and enforced by state or federal agencies who have authority for their enforcement. There is always a danger of defining things too narrowly, however, we deal with it every day in other walks of life, e.g. nursing home regulations, drug regulations, tax regulations, environmental regulations, etc. The process of enacting regulations includes publishing them as “proposed” for public comment before they are finalized. Anyone can comment. You can comment on a FDA proposed regulation for example as a member of the public. Of course, the judical system has a role too, even here, as they do with respect to all other laws and regulations. This has been a long-winded answer which probably raises mroe and more comments and questions, but that’s exactly how the process is supposed to work when laws and regulations are drafted, proposed and finalized. I have written to one of my congressmen here in Kansas and asked him to get this process started in my state and I have volunteered to assist in this effort. dianne

Dianne:
My feeling about this case is that the public is sympathetic to the family for the condition their daughter is in. They see the family continuing to fight and court and feel like there must be an injustice or else the family would have simply given up. But in the real world people are not going to ‘come to terms’ with the death of their daughter just because they lost a lawsuit.

All of this is just to say that I believe that the safeguards that you want essentially exist in the law but supporters in the Schindlers don’t believe they exist because the family lost. (I’m not a lawyer, of course, but this is my impression of the case.) You don’t believe that an estranged husband should make the sole decisions for his wife: he didn’t- he was one opinion among many attempting to determine Terri Schiavo’s will. You want there to be assurance that the patient’s condition is irreversible: there’s no reason to think this judge and the many witnesses to her condition are attempting to unfairly kill Terri Schiavo- of course their decisions are governed by their perception of recovery.

I’m afraid that this case is simply like so many others that splash into the public eye. But the fact that the public essentially agrees with Michael Schiavo’s side despite the tremendous bias in the media towards continuing Terri Schiavo’s life is quite stunning in itself.

How sad this all is. Terri’s family will grieve every day they wake up for the next two years. Their health will suffer. I’m just sure Terri would have wanted that too.

Signing off from this subject. Thanks for the interaction. Dianne

LOOKS LIKE SOME OLD FASHIONED SECRET SOCIETY RITUAL TO ME.
STARVATION ORDER SIGNED BY TYRANT JUDGE GREER :
9-11
THIRTEEN IS THE NUMBER OF DEPRAVITY. TOMORROW WILL BE DAY #
13
THE NUMBER OF DAYS NICK BERG WAS HELD BY IRAQI POLICE WAS
13
THE NUMBER OF DAYS NICK WAS HELD BY COALITION
11

THE KIDS WERE TAKEN TO A “SAFE SCHOOL” ON 11th STREET.

DID THE GOVERNMENT “LEADERS” TURN A COLD DEAF EAR WHEN THEY WERE TOLD WE MAY BE IN IMENENT DANGER ?

AND HAVE THEY TURNED A COLD DEAF EAR ON TERRI’S IMENENT DANGER ?
DID EVERYBODY THAT COULD DO ANYTHING SAY “WE WERE FOLLOWING ORDERS ” OR JUST DOING OUR JOB ? ” WHERE HAVE WE ALL HEARD THAT BEFORE ? CAN ANYBODY SAY NAZI ?

HITLER SAID ,” IT IS LUCKY FOR LEADERS THAT PEOPLE DON’T THINK ”
WHAT ? YOU WANT MORE ?

BUSH #1 ANNOUNCED TO CONGRESS WE ARE MOVING TOWARD THE NEW WORLD ORDER
9-11
G.W PICTURE WITH FIREMAN -HELMET#164- 1+6+4=11
FLIGHT # 11 92 ON BOARD 9+2=11
FLIGHT#77 (7X11) 65 ON BOARD- 6+5=11
THE ONLY OPERATING FERRY WAS # 11 ON 33rd St ( 3X11)
G.W. ORDERED FLAGS 1/2 STAFF FO 11 DAYS.
W.W.1 ENDED 11-11 AT THE 11th hR
CONSTRUCTION ON THE PENTEGON STARTED ON 9-11
MIKE ASKED TERRY TO GET MARRIED ON THE SECOND DATE .
ONE OF THE NURSES SAID MIKE WENT DOWN THE HALL OF THE HOSPICE SAYING “I’M GONNA BE RICH-RICH-RICH” AFTER HE GOT THE SETTLEMENT HE BLEW IT AND GOT THE HITLER JUDGE
TO LET HIM INTO TERRI’S MEDICAL ESCROW . …HE’S BEEN USING IT TO MAINTAIN A LICENSE TO KILL EVER SINCE .

Does anybody on this website know if the authorities will permit or have permitted somebody into Mrs. Schiavo’s room to speak the Gospel message of Jesus shedding His blood as an atonement for all who believe on Him? or read the message to her from the Bible?

I know that Mr. Schiavo did not allow the Reverend Jesse Jackson in to visit Terri. But, I don’t think I would have either.

According to this report from KMOX out of St. Louis, Terri Schiavo was given last rites and Easter communion __ a drop of wine, but no bread.

She is being attended to by two priests.

As her brother, sister and brother-in-law watched, the Rev. Thaddeus Malanowski held Terri’s right hand as he and the hospice priest, the Rev. Joseph Braun, placed the droplet on her tongue. Malanowski also anointed her with holy oil, offered a blessing and absolved her of sin.

“She received the blood of Christ,” said Malanowski, adding he could not give her a fleck of communion bread because her tongue was too dry.

I think you figured it out, DEBRA!

It is absolutely amazing the number of psychological and sociological disorders that are posted for display in these forums… My admiration goes out to those of you who can put forth your thoughts in a clear, concise, and reasoned manner amid these rantings…

A few other random thoughts:

Isn’t it ironic that this whole sad affair started with an eating issue (bulima) and now ends with another “eating issue” (the feeding tube)?

If I were in a similar state, how vigorously would my spouse fight to carry out my last wishes?

Should a parent’s wishes carry more weight than a spouse’s? Kinda puts that whole “giving the bride away” tradition in a different perspective….

On any given day, how many people are forced to make (and live with) the decision to remove life sustaining support for a loved one? What makes this case any more profound or tragic than theirs?

I can not even imagine the pain and anguish the girlfriend and Michael’s children must be living through during this time…

If a person is truly in a “persistent vegetative state,” do they feel pain from dehydration or starvation?

THIS WHOLE ORDEAL IS A CALL FOR PEOPLE TO WAKE UP .THE DEVIL HAS US ALL IN THE CROSS HAIRS . THE BULIMIA ISSUE IS NOT FOUNDED . THERE WERE REPORTS THAT TERRI WANTED A DIVORCE . MIKE IS A NURSE …INSULIN WILL DO THE SAME THING .
MIKE SCHAIVO’S BED BUNNY , JUDAS ( OOPS I MEAN JODI ) WAS AN INS. QUEEN . GOV. JEB BUSH HAND PICKED JODI’S SISTER(OR OTHER CLOSE RELATIVE ) TO WORK FOR HIM . THE DR.’S OPINION THAT JUDGE GREER RESPECTED HAS BEEN BROADENING THE DESCRIPTION OF “PERSISTENT VEGETATIVE STATE ” AT LIGHTENING SPEED .PRETTY SOON IT WON’T BE SAFE TO GO TO THE DR. WITH A COLD … YOU WILL BE REFERRED TO ONE OF HITLERS HOSPICE CAMPS . HITLER HAS A WAY OF GETTING RID OF ” USELESS EATERS.”…IN CASE YOU HAVEN’T NOTICED .

ROBERT , MICHAEL HASN’T BEEN MARRIED TO HER SINCE THE TERRI’S MEDICAL MONEY WAS AWARDED TO HER FOR HER HEALTH CARE . HE FINALLY GOT IT OPENED TO HIMSELF AND THE VAMPIRE LAWYER HAS BEEN FEEDING OFF OF IT EVER SINCE. HE STARTED FORBIDDING PRESCRIBED THERAPIES, TREATMENTS,MEDICATIONS FOR INFECTIONS ECT . THERAPIES THAT WOULD HAVE EVENTUALLY HELPED HER TO SPEAK AND EAT BECAUSE THEN HE COULDN’T GET AWAY WITH MURDER . HE HAS MAINTAINED THAT FEEDING TUBE AS HIS GRAB ON ” KEPT ALIVE BY EXTRAORDINARY MEANS .” KEEPING HER FROM SPEAKING INSURES THAT SHE CAN NEVER SAY WHAT HER WISHES ARE …NOBODY WOULD SAY THEY WANTED TO STARVE TO DEATH FOR WEEKS !

MARRIAGE IS A LEGAL CONTRACT . MR SHAIVO HAS VIOLATED EVERY CONDITION OF THIS CONTRACT AND ABANDONED IT FOR MANY YEARS . PROUDLY , HE HAS BASTARDIZED 2 CHILDREN AND ABIDED WITH A AN IMORAL WOMAN .YET THE SAME CONTRACT KEEPS TERRY BOUND TO HIM WHILE SHE LAY POWERLESS. HE VISITS TERRI TO MAKE SURE SHE MAKES NO PROGRESS OR HIDE ANY THAT SHE HAS MADE . HE CAN’T GET A DIVORCE , GIVE UP GUARDIANSHIP AND KEEP HIS CRIMES COVERED . HE HAS TO KEEP HIS PROMISE TO KILL HER .HE DOESN’T KNOW IT BUT THAT ISN’T GONNA WORK EITHER .

I’M SURE IT HAS BEEN HARD FOR THE HAG AND SATAN’S SPAWN AS WELL. THEY MUST FEEL CHEATED WHEN HE HAS TO SPEND TIME AND KEEP THE FRONT . SO I CAN SEE WHY THEY ALL WANT TO SEE TERRI GET “HER WISHES ” TOO. NOT TO MENTION THAT TERRI’S PURSE IS ALMOST EMPTY. I SUPPOSE THERE IS ENOUGH TO START A COLLEGE FUND FOR SATAN’S SPAWN .

HOW COME WHEN A POOR PERSON IS ON A FEEDING TUBE IT IS CALLED ” EXTRAORDINARY MEANS ” AND WHEN AN 84 YR. OLD DECREPED , FISH HAT POPE … THAT’S BEEN HANGING BY AN OVER COOKED SPEGETTI NOODLE FOREVER … WHEN HE HAS ONE IT IS “NOURISHMENT ?”

IF TERRI HAD TO HAVE MEDICINE FOR PMS CRAMPS …WHY DO THEY THINK WE WILL BELIEVE THEM WHEN THEY TELL US SHE DOES NOT FEEL PAIN ?

I SAW DOCUMENTS OF NEGLIGIENCE AND ABUSE CLAIMS FROM DR’S AND LAWYERS FOR YEARS TO GOV. BUSH BEGGING HIM TO ACT ON TERRI’S BEHALF AND TAKE HER INTO PROTECTIVE CUSTODY .
HE MAINTAINS IMPOTENCY AND HE WILL TILL SHE IS DEAD .

IF YOU WANT TO SEE WHAT PEOPLE LOOK LIKE STARVING TO DEATH YOU DON’T NEED TO SEE TERRI FOR THAT YOU CAN LOOK AT PICTURES OF NAZI DEATH CAMPS AND SOME OF THE ADS FOR ” CARE “. BY THE WAY WHERE ARE THESE BLEEDING HEARTS WHEN YOU NEED THEM ? DOESN’T CHARITY BEGIN AT HOME ? WHERE IS BENNY HIN ? WHERE ARE ALL THE T.V. PREACHERS ? I FOUND OUT BENNY WAS A GAS BAG A LONG TIME AGO …MY CAR BROKE DOWN & I LAID MY HANDS ON IT AND NO MATTER HOW HARD I BELEIVED AND PRAYED … IT WOULDN’T TURN INTO A NEW COUGAR . AND BENNY AIN’T BETTER THAN ME.

SAFEGUARDS DO EXIST IN THE LAW . THAT IS WHAT WE HAVE THE SUPREME COURT FOR . JUDGE GREER DID NOT HANDLE THIS IN THE BEST INTEREST OF TERRI AND THE OTHER JUDGES FELL IN LINE LIKE DOMINOS . AND JUDGE GREER KNEW THEY WOULD. THE FIRST TIME THE SHINDLERS WENT TO THE SUPREME COURT AND THE JUDGES MILKED THE CLOCK WHILE TERRI HAD BEEN WITHOUT FOOD FOR SO LONG TOLD ME RIGHT AWAY THAT THEY HAVE THEIR AGENDA AND TERRI DIDNT STAND A CHANCE . I DON’T KNOW WHY THEY JUMPED ON THEIR BROOMS AND RUSHED TO THE COURT HOUSE…THEY MIGHT AS WELL HAVE STAYED HOME BEHIND THEIR BLACK POT OF BOILING OWELS . THE PROBLEM IS THAT JUDGES NEED TO BE VOTED IN FOR A 2 YEAR TERM . “ABSOLUTE POWER CORRUPTS ABSOLUTELY.”

I DON’T KNOW WHY THEY DON’T GET THE LONG POINTED HAT TO FINISH THE OUTFIT … GOD KNOWS THEY ARE PAID WELL ENOUGH.

I HEARD JUDGE GREER AND HIS FAMILY WERE KICKED OUT OF THE BAPTIST CHURCH . BILL O’REILLY SAID “TELL HIM TO COME TO THE CATHOLIC CHURCH …THEY’LL TAKE ANYBODY !”

PEOPLE MAY THINK THIS WILL JUST SHUT UP AND GO AWAY BUT THEY DIDN’T DRAG IT THROUGH EVERY COURT IN THE LAND JUST TO SIT DOWN AND SHUT UP AND LET MIKE HAVE HIS WAY AS TIRED AS THEY HAVE BEEN .

Hey DEBRA- FYI- on the internet it’s widely considered to be shouting when you type in all caps. There’s no real logic to it but it’s a little hard on the eyes.

Thanks. Keep on being yourself!

Sorry…didn’t mean to shout…thought it helped me see…real tired

at one pm it would have been 14 days…she actually died in the 13th day …told ya so

Why on earth would you feel justified (or righteous enough) to call Michael’s children “satan’s spawn?” Whatever criticisms you may have for the father, the children deserve no part of that vitriol.

Anger, fear, and indignation are natural enough… but how does “homo” “abuser” “fagot” “wormy dick man mounter” “tyrant” “Hitler Judge” “bed bunny” “Judas” “vampire” “bastardized” “immoral” …. How do any of these further your argument?

As to the judge’s religious affiliations, I’m not sure why it would matter if he were Baptist, Jewish, Islamic, Wiccan, or even (gasp) Catholic. His rulings have been well supported by legal precedance, not to mention the judicial review of several state and federal appelate courts. (By the way, did you realize that Terri’s parents pray daily to that “decreipit fish hat pope” who looks like an “overcooked spaghetti noodle?”)

I’m not sure what documentation of “negligence and abuse” you are referring to…. However, it is part of public record that in the medical malpractice suit (to which both Terri’s parents and Michael were listed as plaintiffs) a jury found the attending physician guilty of negligence in not conducting a full medical history – a history, the jury reasoned, that would have revealed Terri’s bulimia. The undisputed testimony at that trial was that Terri’s “1990 collapse was caused by a potassium imbalance brought on by an eating disorder.” (I believe the eating disorder was actually diagnosed as “bulimia nervosa.”) The jury, not a judge, put the damages at nearly $6.8 million dollars (although the verdict was reduced to a little over $2 million because they felt Terri was at least partially responsible for her condition). A CT scan taken in 1996 revealed profound abnormalities. An EEG performed at the same time showed no electrical activity indicative of the higher functional aspects of the brain. In 2002, a CAT scan demonstrated massive atrophy. In place of normal brain tissue, almost all that is left are connective tissues and spinal fluid.

As to Michael’s motivations, Michael Schiavo said he has given his wife everything he could think of to help her, including a brain stimulator implanted in an operation in California — an operation doctors predicted would not be a success… He said all the money he got from the lawsuit has gone for Terri’s care, and that he probably won’t see a penny upon her death. “There’s no money, there’s no insurance, there’s about $50,000 left in her estate,” Michael Schiavo said during an interview with Larry King. To date, I don’t believe anyone has been able to contradict those statements – which removes the financial motive from most conspiracy theorists.

The speculations and innuendo related to Terri’s bone scan in 1991 are misleading and inconclusive at best. Specifically, the examining doctor notes, “There are an extensive number of focal abnormal areas of nuclide accumulation of intense type. These include multiple bilateral ribs, the costovertebral aspects of several of the thoracic vertebral bodies, the L1 vertebral body, both sacroliac joints, the distal right femoral diaphysis, both knees and both ankles, the right greater than the left.” There is absolutely no indication of any trauma to the cranial or facial areas – no trauma to either ulna or radius – no trauma to tarsals, metatarsals, or phlanges. In other words, no trauma to either her face, arms, or hands – all of which are standard and expected fare for victims of assault or abuse.

In fact, the combined pathology of the L1 vertebrea, sacroiliac joints, and the upper portion of the femoral diaphysis are completely compatible with injuries sustained in an accidental fall or car accident, particularily where the lower portions of the body absorb the initial impact. These scenarios also adequately address the near identical conditions found in both knees and ankles as well.

As to the bilateral radiations from the ribs and the thoracic vertebral structure, these conditions are routinely found in instances of compression of the chest cavity – such as with the application of CPR on a patient with puliminary unresponsiveness. In other words, these nuclide accumulations observed nearly a year after Terri’s collapse could have easily been caused by the paramedics responding to the initial call.

While none of the above is conclusive, the presumptive ruling by the malpractice trial court that Terri sufferered from a misdiagnosed eating disorder (bulimia) is instructive as well. Bulimics suffer from a multitude of problems, but significant to this case:
Osteoporosis – Bones becoming significantly weakened, leaving the person susceptible to broken bones from just falling out of bed;
Bradycardia – From purging, electrolytes become imbalanced. Electrolytes help control your heart’s beat among other things, and once they are off balance your heart rate will suffer – most likely dropping too low;
Dysrhythmia – Sudden death from potassium levels being too low;
Amenorrhea – Some people think that you can only lose your period if you are underweight, but this is not true. Purging can seriously mess up a person’s hormones which can lead to missing periods;
Loss of potassium : Purging, laxative, and diuretic abuse is a big factor into this. All three of these things causes vital fluids to be lost and creates the potassium levels of those with bulimia to drop dangerously low, setting them up for heart failure.
Additionally, many medical studies have concluded that patients suffering from eating disorders are much more likely to have lesser bone densities and greater likelyhood of sustaining bone fractures. (Some schools even use “numerous, minor bone fractures” as an indicator of a possible eating disorder.)

None of the preceding paragraphs presume that Terri’s life should have ended in this manner. None of the preceding commentary is meant to support or defend Michael Shiavo or Terri’s parents. However, the rate at which mere innuendo and loose speculation are bantered about as manifest certainties has become frightening in and of itself.

Thanks for the info, Robert. I have to say (as might be apparent from my other comments) that I don’t know much about this case and I question the morality of Congress intruding on this case when there are so many ways that they could save and improve the lives of thousands or millions.

But even though I would prefer to stay out of this case current events seems to drag everyone into it so I appreciate you providing background: I’ve certainly gotten the feeling that I cannot rely on supporters of the Schindlers for accurate information regarding Terri Schiavo’s condition over the course of the last 15 years.

Perhaps this case will finally reveal to people who don’t believe that the government should meddle in the most intimate private affairs of Americans that the Christianist-dominated Republican party is no longer their political home.

Well Robert : Like I said, insulin does the same thing and so does strangulation and Terri’s friends begged her not to go home that nite because Michael and Terri had been fighting over his infidelities and she wanted a divorce. The broken bones were not noticed for over a year. It was going to be a homocide case if she would have died. In one of the letters to the Gov. from Thomas More Law Center dated Oct.15,2003, There was mention of a mountain of evidece to show probable cause in the case to believe that Terri was a victim of violations of Fl. criminal Law. under
Fl. Stat 825.102 it is a crime to neglect or abuse a disabled adult ,including encouraging another person to commit an act that results or could reasonably be expected to result in physical or psychological injury to a disabled adult. Under this CRIMINAL statute ,neglect means a caregiver’s failure or omission to provide a disabled adult with care ,supervision and services necessary to maintain the disabled adult’s physical and mental health ,including ,but not limited to ,food nutrition ,clothing , shelter , supervision ,medicine,and medical services that a prudent person would consider essential for the well being of a disabled adult;or caregivers failure to make reasonable effort to protect a disabled person from abuse,neglect or exploitation by another person (as Felos the ghoul).This “neglect” may be based on repeated conduct or a single incedent or omission that results in ,or could reasonably be expected to result in,serious injury or substantial risk of death to the disabled adult..Also under Fl law it is a crime to murder or attempt to murder a person by deprivation of nutrition and hydration . (see Fl. Stat.–782.04(2)(i),777.04) THE FACTS of this case clearly established probable cause to conduct a FULL criminal investigations .THE FACTS of this case have not been viewed through the lens of a criminal investigation .SHAMEFULLY ,the governments investigatory resources have not been brought to bear on discovering the TRUTH in this case .
The terms I use to describe the truth can never be any more brutal than the torments that these people inflicted upon the most precious soul that they will ever know …Terri Schiavo.

Oh.. you mean the Judicial reviews of a case that was built on an alleged off hand statement by Terri that was remembered 10 years after the debilitating incident ? The ones that said,”We are a Nation of laws “, that turned a stone cold deaf ear to the probable cause for a murder investigation before they sent the message that it’s o.k. to starve Terri to death? Those judicial reviews? The ones that didn’t recognize a broken contract between Mike and Terry because Terri was Powerless?Just how far do you think they should go before you can recognoze them as Tyrant ?

Marriage is a legal contract . Mike Schaivo PROUDLY violated every condition of this contract to the point of bastardizing children(that is what it is called…the situation isn’t pretty it is obscene and should not be made to sound pretty) dragging them into the adultrous mix …and Michael REFUSED to get a divorce continuing to spiritually rape his wife ,her family and the nation. And in the middle of all this evil PROUDLY brings the off spring into the world that will be allowed to be raised by these 2 ghoulish lunatics …hence , “Satans Spawn.”
I got 10 hrs of sleep during the crucifixion of Terri and cried a river of tears for her and her family .
I won’t apologize for recognizing the truth …
AND I WON’T DIGNIFY what has been done with “fluffy” language that serves only to glamorize this atrocity .
The beings that brought it about are in the business of deciet using, trickery
to further a Hitleresque agenda of genocide. Secrecy and slight of hand are intimate friends here leading the naive and ignorant down a path to despair and destruction.

I said I was going to sign off from this subject, but I’ve changed my mind. According to the Mar 30 issue of the NY Times, my own state, Kansas, is grappling with end of life legal issues as well. The paper said the House passed a bill that would require guardians to get a court order before ending life support but it stalled in the Senate. Anti-abortion and advocates for the disabled say that under current law, a legal guardian doesn’t have to consider the wishes of the incapacitated person before ending life support! The paper didn’t report the details (none of them ever do) but gave just enough info to rile up everybody. Apparently in Texas the doctors can overrule the parents of a child and pull the plug on their child if the family doesn’t have the money to keep the child alive. It is evident each state has its own laws and they go from one extreme to the other with we the people caught in the mess. It makes me wonder, how far do we go with the end of life “state’s rights” laws vs a federal law? We’ve got pretty much the same situaton with abortion issues. My point is we are no longer a society where people live in one area all their life like they did when the constitution was written..rather, we’re a very mobile society and each time we move, we’re subject to different laws within the U.S. What is life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness in one state may be vastly different in another state. Is that right or is it wrong?

The Schiavo case is a very emotional case and I feel strongly about it because I do not believe Schiavo should have been able to remain Terri’s legal guardian under the circumstances. However, that was Florida law. Here in Kansas, if I read the NY Times correctly, Michael Schiavo wouldn’t have even had to consider Terri’s wishes in deciding to end her life. Imagine that!

Those of us who have commented on this subject have very personal and deeply held beliefs on this subject from various perspectives, but in the end does it really matter when we don’t even know what our rights are or even if we do, if we move from one state to the other, what we want or believe may not matter anyhow.

Debra:
“Hitleresque agenda of genocide.”

Genocide is the destruction of a race of people. Do you feel that some larger group of people is being targeted for extinction? Do you feel that there are people attempting to commit this act?

Do you feel that individuals do not have the right to determine if they receive life-extending medical procedures?

Dianne: Glad you changed your mind. definitions and descriptions of medical conditions are so rapidly changing and expanding to push people onto death row…that alone bears watching. I think it is time that Dr.’s , Hospitols ,Lawyers and INS. COMPANIES ,be made to identify their position PLAINLY on the subject at the entry of their offices and when they advertise and when they speak publicly . Elected officials should have to do the same and next to their name .Like say for example ,…(R)George Bush(R.T.L.) meaning …Republican ,George Bush,Right to Live…(D)Alan Sharpton(R.T.D.)…meaning …Democrat Alan Sharpton, Right to Die…And we should have it on our drivers licenses and childrens I.D.’s so that emergencies can tell the treating emergency attendants where to send you and how to administer care to best appropriate your “WISHES” in the event you are unable to speak for yourself and there is nobody there to do it for you.
Then nobody would be able to use the courts to commit murder.
And if ALL Judges were ELECETED to 2 yr. term they wouldn’t be able to turn a stone cold deaf ear to the cries of the people and use their positions to STONE WALL PRESIDENT while a helpless woman is being crucified . And if in fact they TRULY support the idea that issues like Terri be best served within the families and State ….Then the town should be able to call an emergency meeting POSTED PLAINLY FOR THE COUNTY hear both families entire sides and vote to immediately remove the Judge or let him continue to preside .
Then the next time a family comes into the court with serious issues and evidence ,he won’t be able to draw authority from a pompas character trait and treat the family as if they don’t count.”ABSOLUTE POWER CORRUPTS ABSOLUTELY” ,Judges should have never been allowed to have absolute power .

Debra: I haven’t changed my mind. I have always thought killing Terri was wrong. I cannot imagine this happening to my daughter. From a moral standpoint and from a humanitarian standpoint, it was against everything I believe in. I don’t care what Schiavo’s legal rights were…he was heartless and cruel. And, furthermore, I challenge anybody to deny they haven’t said “they wouldn’t want to live like that” at one time or another in a casual manner…that to me doesn’t constitute clear and convincing evidence that we want food and water withheld till we die. I believe Judge Greer erred on this point. He is the single most responsible person for Terri’s death next to her “husband”.

Now, that said, we are a nation of laws and many of them are wrong. I am very very concerned that if we keep on this path, within the not too distant future anybody who isn’t contributing to society will be considered disposable. This really concerns me.

http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?id=7016

This says it better than I ever could.

Debra- We have a federalist system with separation of powers that seems to work fairly well- why would you propose an exception for the case of people on feeding tubes? Why is the life and death case of Terri Schiavo any different from the case of Lauren Rainey http://www.wjtc.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=D0C07AE8-965F-4C76-8889-25D25C82FD66 who was threatened with the loss of medicaid which could have killed her? Or even the absence of health insurance for 44 million Americans who subsequently receive below par health care.

Your proposal to elect judges is horrible- we have a system of laws that enacts the will of the majority but protects the rights of the minority. I don’t want to live under mob rule.

But if you think that the majority rule would have saved Terri Schiavo you’re wrong- even evangalist Christians felt that she should not have to live under such circumstances. The general public felt that way by decisive majorities.

Preston, You are flat out wrong. My name is Dale.
Edmund Burke, said that ” all that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing”. You have heard this before.
Our three branches of government with check and balance will not work at all with spineless politicians at the wheel.
The worst case of weak knees was that of Jeb Bush. He asked the same judge who had sentenced Terri to death if it would be O.K. to remove her from the custody of Michael Schiavo and place her in the protective custody of the state. In effect, “Pretty please, judge”.
Governor Bush was “just following orders”. So too was the local police as well as the president and congress. Where on earth have we heard this before? Just following orders.
A woman was put to death, tortured to death, on the say-so of her “husband”. The judge, Greer, said that she ought to die agreeing with the word of Michael Schiavo. Why?
Mr. Schiavo had fathered two children with another woman. He was not honoring his marriage contract with Terri, yet she was bound by this same contract. This is gross injustice on its face.
Terri was disabled, handicapped with brain damage. She was not on “life support”.
How you can conclude that ” the system worked” is beyond, far beyond, any rational thought.
Weakness is the handmaiden of wickedness. Burke was right.
I do not expect you or anyone who believes that justice was served will agree with me. However, I hope justice will ultimately be served in this matter, and in heaping portions. It too is a dish best served cold. It is too late for Terri Schiavo now. It may also be too late for all of us if the majority of people, as you suggest, view this matter as you do.

preston: The Federalist system is working well towad genocide.

Still with the genocide… Who’s dying?

we need a new blog…Robbbbieeee

preston …been to Hospice lately ?

dianne :That article was sooo good. The only thig I thought was wrong was
“Terri was not marched off.” But she was …her so called ” Husband ” marched her right into the hospice from the nursing home…she was not terminally ill. And to this day I don’t see how she got there . what Dr. signed her order ? They are only supposed to do that if death is iminent aren’t they ? And there is no telling how long she would have lived and the lie that she wouldn’t make progress and improve was told so loud that lemmings go right along with it .
Jesus could speak …and wouldn’t
Terri couldn’t speak …but she would have
Socrates drank the piosen hemlock drink.
Hospice is run by Hemlock Society members …
Terri Schiavo’s life was a devine appointment

Trying to find actual facts on this case is very difficult, especially when so many people post any BS that fits their preconceived views and are totally blind to anything that don’t.

In all this time I hadn’t read or heard of any CT, EEG or CAT scans and I’ve kept asking people if such was done and if not then why not. And I ask rather than blindly assume there was none, court info is not always trotted out for everyone to see even though one family I can think of should know very well all of this and haven’t said one word of any of it.
So is this is true about the scans? The EEG? Who had them done, btw, in 1996? How many doctors have tried how many treatments and were the records of those also court evidence? Because some people seem to want me to believe that less than one hour was spent in determining her condition and yet I also read of years of attempts at recovery.

What is the reality? Will we ever see it in the news or public record? Will it be available but only after digging through piles of misinformation?

It can’t be money he wants because $1 million was turned down and before that, $10 million was turned down.

Some say he wanted her dead from before all this. Right. That could have happened if he hadn’t ever called the ambulance. He could have simply said he didn’t wake up if he was behind it and wanted her dead. If that was because of the money he was going to get then why did he turn down offers for 1+ million? If it’s because she could have recovered and testified against him then hey, what the CT scan and EEG and later CAT scan showed there was no way she was going to recover. But don’t let any of this impinge on people looking for evil motives.

If Terri had been a homeless woman, would we have ever heard?
I don’t think so because the homeless die every day without more notice than to pick em up and cart em off. I saw that daily when I worked in Manhattan, the picking up and carting off. I see the faces change here. I look for sources of help for the ones who are obviously unable to care for themselves and it’s devastating how little there is.
Over 40 million now without health care and many of those work only one problem away from being jobless, homeless and soon dead. You won’t find George, Jeb, or congress spending time on them except to see a few million more cut from supporting their worthless or pre-worthless lives so it can go to campaign supporter group tax cuts, a nice anti-missile program that does zip to protect us from any real threat, or a war or foreign giveaway. The new world order is at least part feudalism.

DEBRA — you keep coming along with Michael Schiavo being a nurse and used insulin to cause Terris collapse. Is this ‘FACTS’?
From all I’ve read, he didn’t become a nurse until he was taking care of her after she collapsed.
If he really wanted her dead, would he have called the ambulance in time?
Hey — you really have a thing for conspiracies even to the supernatural that’s not going to let truth enter untwisted, undistorted or unadulterated. It’s not so bad as long as others don’t echo what you write. With a limited set of digits and 100 years history, what can’t be ‘PROVEN’? Nothing you don’t WANT to is all.

Max: Can’t find Facts ? Did you just get back from Pluto or have you just not been looking ? Probably not as much as me …..She had ridges on her neck consistent with strangulation. Her husband didn’t call the ambulance …he called her father and her father called her brother …who lived close by at the time…Mike was on the couch when the brother got there…she was on the floor…Mike didn’t call 911 …her brother did. Mike wasn’t trying to save her …her brother was.But he called the father who lived farther away ? Why ? Because he thought by the time the father got there she’d be dead ???Who knows . He became a nurse …”To help Terri” later .But you don’t have to be a nurse to get insulin. Have you listened to the Nurses sworn affadavits that found insulin viles in the trash one day after he was there and terry was going into a sweat and her sugar was screwed up ?? Have you listened to the other nurses sworn affidavits ? There is a site called “terri’s fight ” you can see document ,after document after document. And ya know what else you might like ? Dianne put a link up a few spaces back. Ann Colter has a couple of articles that are good.Not “proof” just good reading.The whole site is good actually.I’ll probably make it a “favorite”.A woman was stabbed 2 weeks after she told Judge Greer she needed a court order of protection. Judge Greer has not been very nice to the ladies . Ann Colter said something in one of those articles that I won’t forget …she said(not in so many words) “If Judge Greer would have given Mike permission to put a bullet in her head things would have taken a different turn …and that would have been more humane.” Max…I think everybody is still in shock …but the chickens WILL come home to roost. No self respecting woman is going to stop screaming about this man being GIVEN OWNERSHIP of a woman untill the truth is out and the men responsible for the execution of this women are prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law…I haven’t totally lost faith …I still believe that good triumphs over evil. And I know there are still good men in office like Dan Webster that WILL do their job.Many women (like me) grieve over this .And many men do too…I know my husband does. We’re news junkies . And this story has kept us glued to every frame about it. When it is not being covered on the T.V. we’re listening to it on the radio in another room. Both on at the same time And if it isn’t there we come to the computer. Right now it is all about the Pope .By the way ,I hope the Pope isn’t mad at me for the things I said the other day .The only thing I’ve heard about Terri today is that Mike now has her ashes. He owns them too.
I don’t think 10m was enough for somebody that didn’t want his wife to talk . What were the parents going to do if they got her ? Teach her to talk ? What if there was another woman murdered someplace by him? After the monster that he has shown himself to be I wouldn’t put it past him.His secrecy speaks volumes for Terri in view of the fact that there are so many cats out of the bag. Her parents didn’t spend all that time(15yrs) jumping through hoops gathering information nothing to comes forth.

DEBRA- I think that if supporters of the Schindlers revealed that they actually intended to end the hospice system they have much fewer than the 20% of the public that wanted Terri Schiavo to continue living in a persistant vegetative state.

People do not want to live in constant pain or out of their minds. It’s absurd to say that following the desires of these patients is ‘genocide’.

Preston , …oh- oh…I smell those Ghouls at the polls again… I ‘ll bet the entire Hemlock Society has been ordeded to mount their computers looking for polls. I can just about hear the commands…
” READY ON THE LINE ! “…
“ASSUME POLLING POSITIONS !”…
“POLLING FINGERS READY !”…
“COMMENCE POLLING ! “…
(clatter,clatter ,clatter)
“CEASE POLLING !”
“AT EASE !”… …..” I SAID ((((AT EEEASE )))) !”
Polls always make me think of a line from the Wizard of Oz. Remember when they got to the curtain?… And To-To pulled the curtain back …And the little man hollered …”PAY NO ATTENTION TO THAT MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN !
Even if the polls are legit,don’t you see that it is absurd to conclude that justice has been served because of sheer numbers.If so ,Adolf Hitler must have been correct in solving the so called, “Jewish problem .” After all, the majority of his people backed him as well.

Hospice is a great organization…unless you’re a patient and you’re not terminally ill….and unless….Attorney Felos is (was) on the Board of Directors of your hospice…and unless the hospice is being sued by the Department of Health and Human Services for Medicare/Medicaid fraud for receiving millions of dollars for patients who are not terminally ill…and unless…

You are Terri Schiavo.

http://www.theempirejournal.com/0311051_schiavo_attorney_felos_n.htm

Sorry forgot to give reference for the above statements.

Look, Debra, if you don’t like the idea of a hospice- don’t go. That’s the point of this whole debate- individuals should be able to choose the extents to which they utilize medical science to prolong their lives.

Just don’t use rhetoric of the holocaust to force me to live a pain-racked life if there is no hope of my recovery.

For the 10th time in this thread: why is there such passion for ‘life’ at the fringes when preventable suffering and death pervades the world? I think it’s great that there are so many concerned with protecting the weak- but I think there are millions more people starving to death than are spending the last few days of their lives at hospice.

Preston: I happen to agree with your tenth and previous statements concerning compassion for the people who are suffering and dying in this world. Indeed, partly as a result of this case, I am reexamining my own greed in being too concerned with my capital gains and taxes and not concerned enough about others. And, even as a Republican (bet you couldn’t have guessed) I support a system of National Health Insurance and have written to my republican senators and congressmen and even Bush about this.
You’re right…we’ve got a long ways to go in protecting the living, including people like Terri. What makes her case different is we have seen a legally sanctioned extermination right before our very eyes. I, for one, find that almost beyond comprehension in this great country of ours.

Have a great day…and I sincerely mean that.

dianne

Preston; Terri’s death was preventable …and she was not in a third world country…she was right here in our hands where something could be done and was not. She was not sick , she was disabled. Nobody asked her if she wanted to be murdered and discovery wasn’t allowed to be made.
I wish you would tell me what modern science they used …starving someone to death is a torture older than adams house cat. Who could ever use rhetoric to force anybody to do anything ….since when has rhetoric stopped being a basic teaching tool and become a threatening weapon ?

“Nobody asked her if she wanted to be murdered”

I believe that was the entire point of the score of trials: to determine what action she would have wanted if she were able to decide for herself.

“since when has rhetoric stopped being a basic teaching tool and become a threatening weapon ?”

Are you kidding me? Why do you suppose there are two US Marshalls outside Judge Greer’s house?

Dianne:

That’s interesting. This case has been so polarizing I wouldn’t be surprised if people on both sides of the aisle suddenly became uncomfortable with “their sides’” political stances.

I’m hoping if President Bush is going to co-opt Pope John Paul II’s rhetoric of the ‘culture of life’ it isn’t relegated to abortion and the end of life. It would be unbearably cynical to ignore the Pope’s similar focus against the death penalty and war not to mention his emphasis on improving the quality of life for the very poorest of us. But I’m not holding my breath.

Two Marshalls ? Where were they when Terri needed them ?Why didn’t he just get his buddy the Sherrif that was just “following orders?”Rhetoric” didn’t cause that …The pomposity of the Judges character to the extreme of murder did.

kangaroo courts, not trials . Judge Greer wouldn’t let GLARING evidence to show probable cause for a full criminal investigation be admitted so that any truth could be seen upon discovery to further determine “Terri’s Wishes.”

Dianne: I added that to my “favorites.” Looks like the hounds are on the trail . I have seen those things in the “Terri’s Fight .” I like site . Boy when they catch up with Felos it’s gonna be “KATIE BAR THE DOOR.”

I HAD THE NEATEST DREAM this morning when I was waking up. I saw a man whose back faced me hugging Terri as if she had just run into his arms . As if she had just broke the ribbon at a finish line only there was no ribbon. The sky was grayish blue as if a storm was moving away and she had a buttery white colored long flouncey full nite gown with long big sleeves that fell up her arms when she reached and took ahold of him. Her arms went up around the top of his shoulders and took ahold of her right wrist . Her cheeks and chin were rosey.Her eyes were clear and sparkled and she had the smile you see in some of the video’s . There was nothing disabled about her …and the thought going through my head was “It’s over….she did it .”
Then after I got up and had a diet pepsi and talked to my husband,Iwent to the article that you posted the link to about Hospice ,Felos ect….

Hi Debra,

Yes, it is an interesting website and I don’t think either of us have to worry about getting to the bottom of this Schiavo case. If something was done that is illegal, etc. I have confidence they will find and pursue it. I think that’s the long and the short of it. If something was done that is illegal, then prosecute to the full extent of the law. By the way, I got a letter from my Senator Brownback today saying he had co-sponsored a bill called The Incapacitated Person’s Legal Protection Act of 2005 which ensures that disabled persons are granted the same due process rights under habeas corpus as those given a death row inmate. We have a good man here in Kansas.

dianne

This should be a good time to test the values of the Republican party- who comes first ‘pro-life’ values or corporations?

Will Senator Brownback’s law allow insurance companies and hospitals to discontinue life-sustaining treatment despite the parents wishes?

We already know where George Bush has picked the insurance companies over the families.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,151448,00.html

I have a feeling that the hospitals and government are going to end up with a greater voice over our last days than our own family members; you’ll have a right to life- if you can pay for it. And Senator Brownback will have the allegiance of the Christian Right just in time for a potential Presidential run (yet he will make sure not to step on the toes of his funders in big business.) Everyone’s happy.

Jeb Bush’s famous last words the week of Terri’s torture…
“I WON”T do it “…..
“W”’s famous words …..
“Let’s see what the courts do”….

Kind of sounds like …”Just following orders”, doesn’t it ?

After trying to find Brownback’s bill on his website (and I couldn’t) I started wondering about the letter. It is dated March 23. It might be old news. I wonder if this was one of the bills that was introduced and later shot down by the democrats before they came up with the bill that was ultimately found unconstitutional. I need to check into this further.

Preston, I couldn’t open your link but I think I know what you’re talking about…that bill Bush signed as Governor which allows hospitals to disconnect life support of a child over the wishes of a parent if the parents can’t pay. Right? I have conflicted thoughts on that one..don’t know the particulars, but I do think there is a difference between discontinuing full blown life support machines and discontinuing tube feeding. There has to be a limit of some sort to keeping heart/lung machines going, etc. if a person is brain dead, but I also think it’s barbaric to determine when you do this on the basis of if you can pay or not.

At one time I heard on television that under Canada’s system of National Health Care, families have no say whatsoever in end of life decisions. Doctors determine when to pull whatever plug, etc. I also heard that if you’re put in a nursing home/hospice in Canada, you don’t get to “choose” where you go either. So, if this is true, then you may have even less choice than if “corporations” are involved. Though I support a system of National Health Care, I don’t want that to happen.

Brownback is a good man and would have the support of the “Christian right” , but I doubt he’ll run. Would you rather have somebody who is a card carrying member of the “Godless Society” Preston? Or, how about someone who is Islamic or Buddhist instead of those “Christians”.

Debra: It sounds like the ‘rule of law’. You should be glad we have it.

Dianne: I brought up Bush’s law in Texas simply to illlustrate that these are more nuaunced issues than many picketing on the streets with tape across their mouths would lead on. I’m impressed by the focus of their message but the lack of a ‘big picture’ leads me to wonder if they will support ‘life’ in other situations.

I have been impressed with Brownback’s attempts to rally the Senate against genocide in Africa but honestly I don’t hold personal religious attendence as a political requirement. The last election for instance we chose a man who rarely attends church over one who attends weekly- partly based on the fact that the President liberally sprinkles his speeches with religious references. Which was the more ‘God-fearing’ man? None of us will ever know.

I prefer to make my choice based on the morality of their actions in office. Has a candidate attempted to help the poor? Make life more bearable for the afflicted? That would seem to be the more ‘Christian’ man in my estimation- regardless of his religion.

Oh, Dianne- for some reason the link didn’t work properly but if you copy the entire URL and paste it into the address bar of your browser it should work.

But you seem to know about the law anyway…

Dianne; Iwonder if they will support life in other situations too.Wasn’t a big part of the problem that Terri’s parents had with the Supreme Court wasn’t it that they focused thier agenda on Terri only ? While I am not sorry that they were able to push Terri’s battle to the focus of the world , there was opportunity to expose a real nest of snakes in this country…the world actually.
The world Federation of Right To Die Societies calls on Dr.’s to use a six month prognosis to determine whether a person is “terminal” and qualify a person for euthanasia. The longer the life expectancy …the greater the patient suffering. The sixth month standard tells Dr.’s to make a prediction(which is unreliable)and prescribe a time limit .
That’s why I siad that elected officials , Dr.’s ,Lawyers,ins.companies and Hospitols should have to state thier positions and place public notice plainly in thier offices and on thier doors and we should have it on drivers licenses in the event of emergency you will be treated according to your “wishes”.
In austrailia they have a “Dignity in Dieing ” bill.
a person is “Terminal” if …
A) A persons illness will …or has resulted in serious mental IMPAIRMENT
or permenant deprivation of consiousness; or
B)Serious irreversible IMPAIRS to the quality of life.

My best friend’s mom is elderly and over time has had a knee replaced,become diabetic,had a breast removed and is slowed down. She lives on Social Security and is on Medicare . Her leg started swelling really bad and she couldn’t walk. My friend took her back to the Dr. a few times because medication was not helping and it was getting worse. The Dr. told her her mother was old and she could expect that her mother would start breaking down more rapidly and told her to take her mother over to the Hospice because there was nothing more they could do to help her and she had 6 months at best to live.Frightened Granny half to death.My friend calmed her down and told her ,It was a lie. But these old people think the Dr. is God so it wasn’t easy. She took her mother to another Dr. and told him she wanted her mother to have a colonoscopy .He said ,”you don’t really want to put your mother through that , do you ? She is very old and needs to be able to live out her time comfortably.” So she took money out of her 401k and Got her to another Dr. . She had the colenoscopy,chest X-ray , kidney’s, bladder and stomach looked at . Her blood was thick as ketchup.The new Dr. said it was from the medication that had been prescribed by the previous Dr.’s (who wanted to see her go to Hospice) …he found a blood clot behind her knee that was causing the swelling. The new Dr. put Granny on a blood thinner …took the old blood thickening medication away and Granny is a New woman ….just about does hand springs.The other Dr.’s would have fed her to Hospice and killed her.

My in laws live in Kansas .Daddy had a stroke over Thanksgiving .The Hospitol tried to send him to a Hospice . The reason he did not go was because it was too far for mommy to drive.So they sent him to a nursing home in their town where he was prescribed therapy 3 times a week. But after the therapy they left him in bed and did nothing with him to utilize the therapy …to make a long story short the treatment was Hospice like. Old Mommy got mad and told them to have him ready she was bringing him home he was not going to be neglected to death.The Dr. told her he had to have an evaluation or they couldn’t release him. She went through alot of red tape to get him away from what would have turned out to be another so called ,”Death With Dignity.” He ALSO is getting around by himself now and managing better and better day by day.

So it makes me wonder how many of these “miracle healings” are simply people taken out of the Dr. agenda.

No wonder Dr.’s want to do away with medical mal practice law suits.
Seems there are 2 “Rule of Laws”…one for the rich and one for the poor.

Debra…There are real concerns in legislating this issue…both ways. I think our debate proves that. Can only hope the best comes of this.

I’m glad your relatives and friends had good advocates helping them. We all need advocates during our old age and even if we just end up in the hospital at any age.

Preston…I think we could actually end up agreeing on a lot of things and if our politicians were a little less partisan and a little more open-minded on both sides of the aisle, this country and world would be a better place. I for one think Joe Lieberman is a great democrat and I would definitely consider voting for him for President.

Today is voting day in Kansas and I’m headed to the polls.

dianne

JOE would have gotten my vote .

Dianne- you’re probably right we could agree on many things. Alas, I feel that political gerrymandering has been used to protect the seats of incumbents pushing them away from moderate positions.

Incidentally, my most passionate political issues aren’t ‘typical liberal’ issues of civil rights or anti-poverty programs (though I am passionate about them) but rather simple structural issues regarding fairness in government: campaign finance reform, districting reform, protection of the public ownership of the airwaves. I feel like politicians have made their jobs too safe and that if Americans were given a choice of policies and positions to support it would not look anything like what our government is designing.

Preston: From a political standpoint, I’m a card carrying member of the A C L J (as opposed to the A C L U)…doubt you’re too impressed…haha

BUT, my real passion in life are two little girls named Sarah (2)and Hope (7). I’d post picture links for you but there are too many nuts out there in cyberland to risk it.

I bet you like Senator Feingold…I’m originally from Wisconsin…my family is all crazy about him.

You make it sound like I don’t have a life outside politics…

Yeah, I generally like Senator Feingold- it certainly took guts to vote against the PATRIOT Act. Regardless of what anyone actually thinks of the law it’s shameful that no one actually had a chance to read and debate it before it was passed. Moments like that make me fearful of how fragile democracy is.

Looks like Kansas didn’t want the gays to get married too much…

Have to admit I am curious about people. Never been on a blog before. Do you people all know each other personally?

Kansas marriage amendment was no surprise. It’s pretty red here ya know unless you head a few miles west of me to KU country but even in that county I understand it passed. 2004 election Douglas County (where KU is) was only blue county in Kansas.

Have to admit I am curious about people. Never been on a blog before. Do you people all know each other personally?

Dianne,

With very few exceptions, I do not personally know any of my readers/commentors. Which is how it is with most blogs. Some of my readers are disc golfers who I know in real life, but they are a minority.

Blogs are a way for writers (me) to publish our thoughts and opinions are subjects that are important to us. We try to develope a voice and a consistency that registers with a niche of readers (you).

One of the advantages that blogs have over traditional news sources is the ability for the readers to interact with the writer or with each other.

Some bloggers do not post any personal information. But that’s not me. I want my readers to have a sense of who I am, so from time to time I post snippets from my real life.

Urbangrounds is a relatively new blog, and is still trying to find it’s niche in the ever growing blogosphere. I’m glad to have you, Preston, and Debra as part of my community. Each of you bring insight and perspectives that I value and respect, and which will hopefully draw more people into the fold.

Well, Robbie, you’re a hell of a good writer!

Thanks for the welcome. I can’t help but talk about my personal life either…it’s who I am and why I believe what I do. I have a lot of free time as just do some consulting work on a limited basis…been there done the 60 hour a week thing.

I have enjoyed interacting with you, Debra and Preston and others. Sometimes need to check my thought process and also sometimes just feels good letting off some steam.

By the way, I stumbled on your site because of something I found on Google regarding the Schiavo issue…can’t exactly remember what it was that I read…but that’s how I got here.

dianne

Heard the Schindler’s priest on television tonite. M Schiavo refused to let Terri’s mother even hug or touch Terri after she died. Three police officers stood in her way. What would possess a man to be so cruel??? He must be one seething ball of hate. I predict he’ll never live another peaceful day in his life.

Pure unbridled evil…that’s what rules him. The last thing he wanted Terri to see before she died was his evil face trying to steal her soul (as if it were possible).And slithering away with her ashes with the ranks of Ghouls parading with drawn swords behind him.
Tom DeLay called upon the Judiciary Committee to launch an investigation of “An arrogant out of control unacceptable Judiciary that thumbed their nose at congress and the President.” Now you see him under attack. Dirt that they have probably had on him since “Hecter was a pup” to bring out for amunition when it is convenient…now the Ghouls will teach him a lesson for DARING to open his pie hole….AND use him for an example to anybody else who attempts to reach down and find their gonads.

“Pure unbridled evil…that’s what rules him.”

Or, alternately, a desire to see his wife’s wishes fulfilled.

DeLay is so far out of line that even people like Rush Limbaugh realize that his court-packing scheme “would be seen as an attempt to literally take over the judiciary, and they’ll be very sensitive to that kind of a charge.” Congressman DeLay is attempting to overthrow 200 years of jurisprudence by restricting the court’s authority of judicial review. Meanwhile, Senator Cornyn is insinuating that violence against the judiciary is politically justified- even though recent murders of judges and family members involved rape and medical malpractice case- not politics. Clearly Cornyn is engaged in simple intimidation.

These people are Un-American and are attempting to destroy our government. The sooner they are out of politics the better.

The Republican Party was just plain stupid putting DeLay out on the front on this issue. He has too much baggage and getting more every day it seems. I didn’t hear the Cornyn remarks but of course that is way out of line. I’m getting a little sick of each side’s pontificating and we sure as heck can’t have threats in our own Congress.

I think they should all go confess their sins like Charles and Camilla..sheesh

Do you mean like the jurisprudence over the reviews of Judge Greers illegal rulings to give ownership of Teresa Marie Shindler….schiavo, to her estranged husband …who wouldn’t grant a divorce …but kept her bound in his adultrous affair WITH HIM … who suddenly remembered her so called “WISHES” …AFTER he got the money awarded for her medical needs?…. And then had the Ghoul Lawyer Felos help him illegally move her from the nursing home to the death camp… and SWINDLE her money away to MURDER her… instead of attending to the therapies and stimulations, medical treatments and modern diagnostics… that could have greatly improved her quality of life… that he PROMISED TO DO with the money? No Judge had the right to decide that her life was not worth living and kill her. WE THE PEOPLE are the ones being “STONE WALLED”.

I’m referring to the 200 years of case law that gave the husband greater authority to determine the will of the woman than her parents. Something most of us would not wish to see overturned.

This never ends. One thing leads to another. 200 Years of Case Law? Boy the NOW would love to take you on Preston. With a 50%+ divorce rate I’m not so sure the husband or the wife has the best interests of the other in mind in at least 50% of the cases, especially when they’re fucking somebody else. Or wouldn’t you care if your wife was having babies with another man and held your life in her hands?

Well how are case laws made ? Case by case ? Just how many cases are there where a man was allowed to break every condition of a marital contract ,even bastardizing a new family, treating a marriage contract as a certificate of ownership of a woman and HER MONEY …and using the marriage contract as a license to murder the wife and spiritually rape her and her family and the entire nation ? Can you honestly say that “most of us includes” the ladies?
According to your absurd logic, numbers plus longevity equals justice. Your equation is ridiculous on its face. Neither play a part in arriving at justice. The numbers that you reference are those of certain polls with the questions designed to establish the desired outcome. One poll, much later, phrased the questions without prejudice and the results were the reverse of your “numbers”.
You continue to ” wax eloquent” about judicial torture and murder claiming that justice was served because a state judge ruled and the other courts backed him. Your entire argument is founded on blindness ( and, I hate to tell you this Preston,because I mean no offense) willfull ignorance. For the first you need your eyes examined. For the second, there is no excuse.
Congress declared that a federal judge should examine the case new “de novo”. The federal judge did not, in effect showing his bird finger to both congress AND the president. This apparently is justice to one of your mind set ? You then make reference to 200 years of case law as making your pointless point. I fail to see any merit at all in your posistion as you state it.
Perhaps you are a judge yourself, or an attorney. Much like the federal judge you determine your views not on facts, but rather on hear-say. And then you call this justice ?
Violence against judges is wrong, and should not be tolerated by anyone.
The problem in a nutshell is this: “When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice, but when the wicked bear rule the people mourn”. This proverb is absolutely true even though I see that you do not consider absolutes in your reasonings. Did Greer and the courts rule and result in rejoicing on the part of the people? Whose opinion really counts here? Just yours and mine? Or is there a third party, a third opinion on law, and right verses wrong that our laws are supposedly based on, yet are ignored more and more by the people and their political leanings. What is your opinion really founded on? Your intellect? Let us hear your honest answer.

Dianne: I’m sure that Michael Schiavo’s infidelities were an issue in several of the cases. The point of the trials, to my understanding, is not what does Michael Schiavo want but what would Terri Schiavo want. Clearly, the husband has a priviledged position in this discussion. Equally clear is the fact that Michael Schiavo jeopardized this role as an advocate for Terri Schiavo by having children with another woman. It is the judges’ (all 19 of them) role to balance the competing claims.

NOW, of course, would argue against the notion that a man has the sole determination of his wife’s fate- but I don’t believe that was an issue in these cases.

Good morning Preston,

Last night not a good sleep. Watched a program about this woman who shot her two sons who were totally incapacitated by Huntington’s Disease, a horrible and progressively worse adult neurological disease that affects the mind and the body to the point personality becomes hostile and they physically deteriorate to the point that they end up dying but it takes years and years as they lose control of everything. Her husband died of the same thing. For half this poor woman’s life she took care of these loved ones. I don’t know how she did it. It would have killed most people. At one point she and her sons made a suicide pact and OD’d on tranquilizers but it didn’t work. One day she walked into the nursing home where she had finally put them after years of caring for them by herself and shot and killed her sons. They charged her with 1st degree murder even though everybody, including the prosecutor felt tremendously sorry for her because it was obvious she couldn’t stand to see them suffer anymore. Well,her lawyer found that there was a loophole in the Georgia law (based on Kevorkian) that allowed the prosecutor to change the charge to assisted suicide which the prosecutor agreed to) and she ended up with 5 years instead of life.

Sooo my point is the law can be merciful and it can be just and that’s what should have happened in the case of Schiavo and I hope that some day the laws will be changed in all states to be merciful both to people like the Georgia woman and to those like Terri Schiavo.

dianne

Hello EVERYONE…..

CHOCOLATE CHIP COOKIES
2- 1/2 cups all purpose flour
1- tsp. baking soda
3/4 – cup stick margarine (softened)
1 1/2 -cups brown sugar
1 -egg
2- tsp vanilla extract
1 – cup semi sweet chocolate chips

1. preheat the oven to 350.
2.combine flour and baking soda & set it aside
3. in a large bowl ,combine softened margarine & brown sugar. Mix well.
stir in egg and vanilla untill blended. Add flour mixture and stir untill it is
just combined . stir in chocolate chips.
4. for each cookie, drop by heaping tablespoons of dough onto a cookie sheet,leaving 2 1/2 inches between each .Bake @ 350. for 9 to 11 min. or until edges are BEGINNING to harden but centers are still soft.

Serve with glass of frosty cold milk. A more convenient alternative than facing national issues or personal ones. Enjoy.

Dianne:

It’s clear that there’s needs to be a national debate on end-of-life issues. I only hope that the laws are passed with a fair amount of debate- not just rushed through Congress when the nation feels sympathy for the next terminal patient.

You never said what the will of the sons would have been- which is the crucial difference. It seems to me that if they had a chronic dibilitating disease they had the opportunity to write a living will. I don’t believe the mother was right to shoot her sons if they did not express the desire to not live out their lives regardless of their pain- though I’m sympathetic to the mother’s plight.

But if her sons did not wish to live that way but were prohibited from killing themselves by the law- it seems horribly cruel to send this woman to prison.

That’s the thing that mystifies me about DeLay and company. Do they want to shift control of life and death matters from the spouse to the parents? What if next time it’s the parents who wish to end the patient’s suffering (as in this case you mention)? Or else does Congress want to mercifully make all of these decisions themselves and relieve us of the burden of deciding how we will spend our last days.

Clearly everyone felt sympathy for Terri Schiavo, Michael Schiavo, and the Schindlers but only Tom DeLay and Congress wanted to use this sympathy to take away our rights to end our lives with some dignity.

Debra..thanks for the cookies…looks like a good recipe and thanks for the happy thoughts.

Preston…If I remember correctly, these boys had seen their dad go through hell and had made it clear to their mom they didn’t want to live like that. They had even tried to commit suicide by each OD’ing on tranquilizers by their own hand. Years later they could no longer do it themselves…mom walked in the nursing home one night and tears were rolling down the cheeks of one of the boys (they were like in their 40’s then) and she just lost it. Bear in mind she had cared for them herself for years…diapering, the whole nine yards. This was an inherited disease. There is one son left who so far doesn’t have the disease and he relayed the story…he lives in fear every day that he will get the disease.

The courts found that based on the history, they could identify the crime as assisted suicide instead of 1st degree murder.

Such a sad story.

There is no doubt that whatever happens as far as laws needs to be carefully thought out. I don’t know if it’s possible to cover every situation..probably not.. I don’t really think the congressmen who tried to enact the Schiavo law were motivated solely by politics…maybe some were granted..but not most. As I said before, Delay was not the right man to spearhead this legislation and the repubicans should have known that it would backfire on them.

It’s going to be real interesting to see the autopsy results.

Dianne : I wouldn’t be surprised if we NEVER heard the autopsy results . AND it doesn’t matter what the results are … the results will SAY (somehow) that Terri’s LIFE was not worth having.

The lady in Georgia was air lifted to a hospitol away from the Hospice that she was being tortured at . According to the blabber on Terri’s site …she had a living will & and the “Grandarling” was having her “Schiavoed” anyway. Took a hell of a fight to get the poor woman out of there….AND …I saw a conversation about six men that are being “Schiavoed”…begging to live. Gotta see if it’s for real or not … more reason to believe it than not .

I’m just not going to go to the friggin Dr. anymore. UNLESS the Dr. will enter into a liability contract …. People need to MAKE them have to be accountable . We need to stop letting cry those “crocodile malpractice ins. tears”.

[...] Cindy Sheehan is even less of a PoY than either Terri Schiavo or Pope John Paul II, both of whom—through their respective deaths—were infinitely more significant than Cindy Sheehan has or ever will be in life. Hell, young Spc. Carrie French is more deserving of the PoY than Cindy Sheehan is… [...]