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	<title>Comments on: A Few Words About Terri Shiavo</title>
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	<description>Off-the-cuff commentary on the day&#039;s events</description>
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		<title>By: UrbanGrounds &#187; Blog Archive &#187; 2005 Person of the Year: Predictions</title>
		<link>http://urbangrounds.com/2005/03/shiavo/#comment-9566</link>
		<dc:creator>UrbanGrounds &#187; Blog Archive &#187; 2005 Person of the Year: Predictions</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Aug 2005 21:49:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://urbangrounds.com/2005/03/22/shiavo/#comment-9566</guid>
		<description>[...] Cindy Sheehan is even less of a PoY than either Terri Schiavo or Pope John Paul II, both of whom&#8212;through their respective deaths&#8212;were infinitely more significant than Cindy Sheehan has or ever will be in life. Hell, young Spc. Carrie French is more deserving of the PoY than Cindy Sheehan is&#8230; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Cindy Sheehan is even less of a PoY than either Terri Schiavo or Pope John Paul II, both of whom&#8212;through their respective deaths&#8212;were infinitely more significant than Cindy Sheehan has or ever will be in life. Hell, young Spc. Carrie French is more deserving of the PoY than Cindy Sheehan is&#8230; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: DEBRA</title>
		<link>http://urbangrounds.com/2005/03/shiavo/#comment-2525</link>
		<dc:creator>DEBRA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Apr 2005 13:44:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://urbangrounds.com/2005/03/22/shiavo/#comment-2525</guid>
		<description>Dianne : I wouldn&#039;t be surprised if we NEVER heard the autopsy results . AND it doesn&#039;t matter what the results are ... the results will SAY (somehow)  that Terri&#039;s LIFE was not worth having.

The lady in Georgia was air lifted to a hospitol away from the Hospice that she was being tortured at . According to the blabber on Terri&#039;s site ...she had a living will &amp; and the &quot;Grandarling&quot; was having her &quot;Schiavoed&quot; anyway. Took a hell of a fight to get the poor woman out of there....AND ...I  saw a conversation about six men that are being &quot;Schiavoed&quot;...begging to live. Gotta see if it&#039;s for real or not ... more reason to believe it than not . 

I&#039;m just not going to go to the friggin Dr. anymore. UNLESS the Dr. will enter into a liability contract .... People need to MAKE them have to be accountable . We need to stop letting cry those &quot;crocodile  malpractice ins. tears&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dianne : I wouldn&#8217;t be surprised if we NEVER heard the autopsy results . AND it doesn&#8217;t matter what the results are &#8230; the results will SAY (somehow)  that Terri&#8217;s LIFE was not worth having.</p>
<p>The lady in Georgia was air lifted to a hospitol away from the Hospice that she was being tortured at . According to the blabber on Terri&#8217;s site &#8230;she had a living will &#038; and the &#8220;Grandarling&#8221; was having her &#8220;Schiavoed&#8221; anyway. Took a hell of a fight to get the poor woman out of there&#8230;.AND &#8230;I  saw a conversation about six men that are being &#8220;Schiavoed&#8221;&#8230;begging to live. Gotta see if it&#8217;s for real or not &#8230; more reason to believe it than not . </p>
<p>I&#8217;m just not going to go to the friggin Dr. anymore. UNLESS the Dr. will enter into a liability contract &#8230;. People need to MAKE them have to be accountable . We need to stop letting cry those &#8220;crocodile  malpractice ins. tears&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: dianne</title>
		<link>http://urbangrounds.com/2005/03/shiavo/#comment-2508</link>
		<dc:creator>dianne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Apr 2005 01:22:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://urbangrounds.com/2005/03/22/shiavo/#comment-2508</guid>
		<description>Debra..thanks for the cookies...looks like a good recipe and thanks for the happy thoughts.

Preston...If I remember correctly, these boys had seen their dad go through hell and had made it clear to their mom they didn&#039;t want to live like that.  They had even tried to commit suicide by each OD&#039;ing on tranquilizers by their own hand.  Years later they could no longer do it themselves...mom walked in the nursing home one night and tears were rolling down the cheeks of one of the boys (they were like in their 40&#039;s then) and she just lost it.  Bear in mind she had cared for them herself for years...diapering, the whole nine yards. This was an inherited disease.  There is one son left who so far doesn&#039;t have the disease and he relayed the story...he lives in fear every day that he will get the disease.

The courts found that based on the history, they could identify the crime as assisted suicide instead of 1st degree murder.  

Such a sad story.

There is no doubt that whatever happens as far as laws needs to be carefully thought out.  I don&#039;t know if it&#039;s possible to cover every situation..probably not..  I don&#039;t really think the congressmen who tried to enact the Schiavo law were motivated solely by politics...maybe some were granted..but not most.  As I said before, Delay was not the right man to spearhead this legislation and the repubicans should have known that it would backfire on them.  

It&#039;s going to be real interesting to see the autopsy results.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Debra..thanks for the cookies&#8230;looks like a good recipe and thanks for the happy thoughts.</p>
<p>Preston&#8230;If I remember correctly, these boys had seen their dad go through hell and had made it clear to their mom they didn&#8217;t want to live like that.  They had even tried to commit suicide by each OD&#8217;ing on tranquilizers by their own hand.  Years later they could no longer do it themselves&#8230;mom walked in the nursing home one night and tears were rolling down the cheeks of one of the boys (they were like in their 40&#8242;s then) and she just lost it.  Bear in mind she had cared for them herself for years&#8230;diapering, the whole nine yards. This was an inherited disease.  There is one son left who so far doesn&#8217;t have the disease and he relayed the story&#8230;he lives in fear every day that he will get the disease.</p>
<p>The courts found that based on the history, they could identify the crime as assisted suicide instead of 1st degree murder.  </p>
<p>Such a sad story.</p>
<p>There is no doubt that whatever happens as far as laws needs to be carefully thought out.  I don&#8217;t know if it&#8217;s possible to cover every situation..probably not..  I don&#8217;t really think the congressmen who tried to enact the Schiavo law were motivated solely by politics&#8230;maybe some were granted..but not most.  As I said before, Delay was not the right man to spearhead this legislation and the repubicans should have known that it would backfire on them.  </p>
<p>It&#8217;s going to be real interesting to see the autopsy results.</p>
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		<title>By: Preston</title>
		<link>http://urbangrounds.com/2005/03/shiavo/#comment-2503</link>
		<dc:creator>Preston</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Apr 2005 18:26:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://urbangrounds.com/2005/03/22/shiavo/#comment-2503</guid>
		<description>Dianne:

It&#039;s clear that there&#039;s needs to be a national debate on end-of-life issues.  I only hope that the laws are passed with a fair amount of debate- not just rushed through Congress when the nation feels sympathy for the next terminal patient.

You never said what the will of the sons would have been- which is the crucial difference.  It seems to me that if they had a chronic dibilitating disease they had the opportunity to write a living will.  I don&#039;t believe the mother was right to shoot her sons if they did not express the desire to not live out their lives regardless of their pain- though I&#039;m sympathetic to the mother&#039;s plight.  

But if her sons did not wish to live that way but were prohibited from killing themselves by the law- it seems horribly cruel to send this woman to prison.  

That&#039;s the thing that mystifies me about DeLay and company.  Do they want to shift control of life and death matters from the spouse to the parents?  What if next time it&#039;s the parents who wish to end the patient&#039;s suffering (as in this case you mention)?  Or else does Congress want to mercifully make all of these decisions themselves and relieve us of the burden of deciding how we will spend our last days.  

Clearly everyone felt sympathy for Terri Schiavo, Michael Schiavo, and the Schindlers but only Tom DeLay and Congress wanted to use this sympathy to take away our rights to end our lives with some dignity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dianne:</p>
<p>It&#8217;s clear that there&#8217;s needs to be a national debate on end-of-life issues.  I only hope that the laws are passed with a fair amount of debate- not just rushed through Congress when the nation feels sympathy for the next terminal patient.</p>
<p>You never said what the will of the sons would have been- which is the crucial difference.  It seems to me that if they had a chronic dibilitating disease they had the opportunity to write a living will.  I don&#8217;t believe the mother was right to shoot her sons if they did not express the desire to not live out their lives regardless of their pain- though I&#8217;m sympathetic to the mother&#8217;s plight.  </p>
<p>But if her sons did not wish to live that way but were prohibited from killing themselves by the law- it seems horribly cruel to send this woman to prison.  </p>
<p>That&#8217;s the thing that mystifies me about DeLay and company.  Do they want to shift control of life and death matters from the spouse to the parents?  What if next time it&#8217;s the parents who wish to end the patient&#8217;s suffering (as in this case you mention)?  Or else does Congress want to mercifully make all of these decisions themselves and relieve us of the burden of deciding how we will spend our last days.  </p>
<p>Clearly everyone felt sympathy for Terri Schiavo, Michael Schiavo, and the Schindlers but only Tom DeLay and Congress wanted to use this sympathy to take away our rights to end our lives with some dignity.</p>
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		<title>By: DEBRA</title>
		<link>http://urbangrounds.com/2005/03/shiavo/#comment-2502</link>
		<dc:creator>DEBRA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Apr 2005 18:00:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://urbangrounds.com/2005/03/22/shiavo/#comment-2502</guid>
		<description>Hello  EVERYONE.....

CHOCOLATE  CHIP COOKIES
2- 1/2  cups all purpose flour
1- tsp. baking soda
3/4 - cup stick margarine (softened)
1 1/2 -cups  brown sugar
1 -egg
2- tsp vanilla extract
1 - cup semi sweet chocolate chips

1. preheat the oven to 350.
2.combine flour and baking soda &amp; set it aside
3. in a large bowl ,combine softened margarine &amp; brown sugar. Mix well.
    stir in egg and vanilla untill blended. Add flour mixture and stir untill it is 
    just combined . stir in chocolate chips.
4. for each cookie, drop by heaping tablespoons of dough onto a cookie sheet,leaving 2 1/2  inches between each .Bake @ 350. for 9 to 11 min.  or until edges are BEGINNING to harden but centers are still soft.

Serve with glass of frosty cold milk. A more convenient alternative than facing national issues or personal ones. Enjoy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello  EVERYONE&#8230;..</p>
<p>CHOCOLATE  CHIP COOKIES<br />
2- 1/2  cups all purpose flour<br />
1- tsp. baking soda<br />
3/4 &#8211; cup stick margarine (softened)<br />
1 1/2 -cups  brown sugar<br />
1 -egg<br />
2- tsp vanilla extract<br />
1 &#8211; cup semi sweet chocolate chips</p>
<p>1. preheat the oven to 350.<br />
2.combine flour and baking soda &#038; set it aside<br />
3. in a large bowl ,combine softened margarine &#038; brown sugar. Mix well.<br />
    stir in egg and vanilla untill blended. Add flour mixture and stir untill it is<br />
    just combined . stir in chocolate chips.<br />
4. for each cookie, drop by heaping tablespoons of dough onto a cookie sheet,leaving 2 1/2  inches between each .Bake @ 350. for 9 to 11 min.  or until edges are BEGINNING to harden but centers are still soft.</p>
<p>Serve with glass of frosty cold milk. A more convenient alternative than facing national issues or personal ones. Enjoy.</p>
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		<title>By: dianne</title>
		<link>http://urbangrounds.com/2005/03/shiavo/#comment-2499</link>
		<dc:creator>dianne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Apr 2005 15:30:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://urbangrounds.com/2005/03/22/shiavo/#comment-2499</guid>
		<description>Good morning Preston,

Last night not a good sleep.  Watched a program about this woman who shot her two sons who were totally incapacitated by Huntington&#039;s Disease, a horrible and progressively worse adult neurological disease that affects the mind and the body to the point personality becomes hostile and they physically deteriorate to the point that they end up dying but it takes years and years as they lose control of everything.  Her husband died of the same thing.  For half this poor woman&#039;s life she took care of these loved ones.  I don&#039;t know how she did it.  It would have killed most people.  At one point she and her sons made a suicide pact and OD&#039;d on tranquilizers but it didn&#039;t work.  One day she walked into the nursing home where she had finally put them after years of caring for them by herself and shot and killed her sons.  They charged her with 1st degree murder even though everybody, including the prosecutor felt tremendously sorry for her because it was obvious she couldn&#039;t stand to see them suffer anymore.  Well,her lawyer found that  there was a loophole in the Georgia law (based on Kevorkian) that allowed the prosecutor to change the charge to assisted suicide which the prosecutor agreed to) and she ended up with 5 years instead of life.  

Sooo my point is the law can be merciful and it can be just and that&#039;s what should have happened in the case of Schiavo and I hope that some day the laws will be changed in all states to be merciful both to people like the Georgia woman and to those like Terri Schiavo.

dianne</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good morning Preston,</p>
<p>Last night not a good sleep.  Watched a program about this woman who shot her two sons who were totally incapacitated by Huntington&#8217;s Disease, a horrible and progressively worse adult neurological disease that affects the mind and the body to the point personality becomes hostile and they physically deteriorate to the point that they end up dying but it takes years and years as they lose control of everything.  Her husband died of the same thing.  For half this poor woman&#8217;s life she took care of these loved ones.  I don&#8217;t know how she did it.  It would have killed most people.  At one point she and her sons made a suicide pact and OD&#8217;d on tranquilizers but it didn&#8217;t work.  One day she walked into the nursing home where she had finally put them after years of caring for them by herself and shot and killed her sons.  They charged her with 1st degree murder even though everybody, including the prosecutor felt tremendously sorry for her because it was obvious she couldn&#8217;t stand to see them suffer anymore.  Well,her lawyer found that  there was a loophole in the Georgia law (based on Kevorkian) that allowed the prosecutor to change the charge to assisted suicide which the prosecutor agreed to) and she ended up with 5 years instead of life.  </p>
<p>Sooo my point is the law can be merciful and it can be just and that&#8217;s what should have happened in the case of Schiavo and I hope that some day the laws will be changed in all states to be merciful both to people like the Georgia woman and to those like Terri Schiavo.</p>
<p>dianne</p>
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		<title>By: Preston</title>
		<link>http://urbangrounds.com/2005/03/shiavo/#comment-2494</link>
		<dc:creator>Preston</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Apr 2005 13:23:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://urbangrounds.com/2005/03/22/shiavo/#comment-2494</guid>
		<description>Dianne: I&#039;m sure that Michael Schiavo&#039;s infidelities were an issue in several of the cases.  The point of the trials, to my understanding, is not what does Michael Schiavo want but what would Terri Schiavo want.  Clearly, the husband has a priviledged position in this discussion.  Equally clear is the fact that Michael Schiavo jeopardized this role as an advocate for Terri Schiavo by having children with another woman.  It is the judges&#039; (all 19 of them) role to balance the competing claims.  

NOW, of course, would argue against the notion that a man has the sole determination of his wife&#039;s fate- but I don&#039;t believe that was an issue in these cases.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dianne: I&#8217;m sure that Michael Schiavo&#8217;s infidelities were an issue in several of the cases.  The point of the trials, to my understanding, is not what does Michael Schiavo want but what would Terri Schiavo want.  Clearly, the husband has a priviledged position in this discussion.  Equally clear is the fact that Michael Schiavo jeopardized this role as an advocate for Terri Schiavo by having children with another woman.  It is the judges&#8217; (all 19 of them) role to balance the competing claims.  </p>
<p>NOW, of course, would argue against the notion that a man has the sole determination of his wife&#8217;s fate- but I don&#8217;t believe that was an issue in these cases.</p>
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		<title>By: DEBRA</title>
		<link>http://urbangrounds.com/2005/03/shiavo/#comment-2478</link>
		<dc:creator>DEBRA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Apr 2005 19:05:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://urbangrounds.com/2005/03/22/shiavo/#comment-2478</guid>
		<description>Well how are case laws made ? Case by case ? Just how many cases are there where a man was allowed to break every condition of a marital contract  ,even bastardizing a new family, treating a marriage contract as a  certificate of ownership of a woman and HER MONEY ...and using the marriage contract as a license to murder the wife and spiritually rape her and her family and the entire nation ? Can you honestly say that &quot;most of us includes&quot; the ladies?
According to your absurd logic, numbers plus longevity equals justice. Your equation is ridiculous on its face. Neither play a part in arriving at justice. The numbers that you reference are those of certain polls with the questions designed to establish the desired outcome. One poll, much later, phrased the questions without prejudice and the results were the reverse of your &quot;numbers&quot;.
 You continue to &quot; wax eloquent&quot; about judicial torture and murder claiming that justice was served because a state judge ruled and the other courts backed him. Your entire argument is founded on blindness ( and, I hate to tell you this Preston,because I mean no offense) willfull ignorance. For the first you need your eyes examined. For the second, there is no excuse.
Congress declared that a federal judge should examine the case new &quot;de novo&quot;. The federal judge did not, in effect showing his bird finger to both congress AND the president. This apparently is justice to one of your mind set ? You then make reference to 200 years of case law as making your pointless point. I fail to see any merit at all in your posistion as you state it.
Perhaps you are a judge yourself, or an attorney. Much like the federal judge you determine your views not on facts, but rather on hear-say. And then you call this justice ? 
Violence against judges is wrong, and should not be tolerated by anyone.
The problem in a nutshell is this: &quot;When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice, but when the wicked bear rule the people mourn&quot;. This proverb is absolutely true even though I see that you do not consider absolutes in your reasonings. Did Greer and the courts rule and result in rejoicing on the part of the people? Whose opinion really counts here? Just yours and mine? Or is there a third party, a third opinion on law, and right verses wrong that our laws are supposedly based on, yet are ignored more and more by the people and their political leanings. What is your opinion really founded on? Your intellect? Let us hear your honest answer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well how are case laws made ? Case by case ? Just how many cases are there where a man was allowed to break every condition of a marital contract  ,even bastardizing a new family, treating a marriage contract as a  certificate of ownership of a woman and HER MONEY &#8230;and using the marriage contract as a license to murder the wife and spiritually rape her and her family and the entire nation ? Can you honestly say that &#8220;most of us includes&#8221; the ladies?<br />
According to your absurd logic, numbers plus longevity equals justice. Your equation is ridiculous on its face. Neither play a part in arriving at justice. The numbers that you reference are those of certain polls with the questions designed to establish the desired outcome. One poll, much later, phrased the questions without prejudice and the results were the reverse of your &#8220;numbers&#8221;.<br />
 You continue to &#8221; wax eloquent&#8221; about judicial torture and murder claiming that justice was served because a state judge ruled and the other courts backed him. Your entire argument is founded on blindness ( and, I hate to tell you this Preston,because I mean no offense) willfull ignorance. For the first you need your eyes examined. For the second, there is no excuse.<br />
Congress declared that a federal judge should examine the case new &#8220;de novo&#8221;. The federal judge did not, in effect showing his bird finger to both congress AND the president. This apparently is justice to one of your mind set ? You then make reference to 200 years of case law as making your pointless point. I fail to see any merit at all in your posistion as you state it.<br />
Perhaps you are a judge yourself, or an attorney. Much like the federal judge you determine your views not on facts, but rather on hear-say. And then you call this justice ?<br />
Violence against judges is wrong, and should not be tolerated by anyone.<br />
The problem in a nutshell is this: &#8220;When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice, but when the wicked bear rule the people mourn&#8221;. This proverb is absolutely true even though I see that you do not consider absolutes in your reasonings. Did Greer and the courts rule and result in rejoicing on the part of the people? Whose opinion really counts here? Just yours and mine? Or is there a third party, a third opinion on law, and right verses wrong that our laws are supposedly based on, yet are ignored more and more by the people and their political leanings. What is your opinion really founded on? Your intellect? Let us hear your honest answer.</p>
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