Comments on: The Plight of America’s Black Men http://urbangrounds.com/2006/03/plight-of-blacks/ Sometimes the truth hurts Tue, 14 Feb 2012 17:04:20 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: USAheretostay http://urbangrounds.com/2006/03/plight-of-blacks/#comment-21140 USAheretostay Tue, 06 Jun 2006 23:33:19 +0000 http://urbangrounds.com/?p=751#comment-21140 Lets just keep locking the negros up. Lets just keep locking the negros up.

]]> By: dianne http://urbangrounds.com/2006/03/plight-of-blacks/#comment-15130 dianne Fri, 24 Mar 2006 13:14:24 +0000 http://urbangrounds.com/?p=751#comment-15130 "Once again, I’ll say the ideology of hard work is what each individual needs to have to succeed. The government however has to enact policies that understand that societal and economic forces have conspired to work against many in our society." Preston, in reference to the above, my point was if the government is already spending 2/3 on entitlements, where is the money going to come from to aid the situation of young black men? Or are you talking about something that doesn't involve money? You were talking about societal and economic forces right? I can think of one thing that would equalize everything for everybody, but of course it involves money and that is a voucher system for education in PUBLIC as well as private schools. However, I think that any additional money that would cost would be well spent. I spoke about this on another post yesterday. Way back when my husband went to an Engineering High School in Baltimore. It was a public school, devoted to the pursuit of a career in the construction field. There were other public high schools that specialized in studies related to other types of careers, more like junior colleges of today. He received a wonderful education, but had to get on a city bus and travel a long ways every day to and from school. Also, uniforms (shirt and tie) were required. These schools were very successful and disciplined, and were career oriented. Years later I worked with a guy who graduated from City College (another Baltimore public high school) who became a veterinarian. It worked then; I don't know why it wouldn't work now. What, specifically, are you calling for? “Once again, I’ll say the ideology of hard work is what each individual needs to have to succeed. The government however has to enact policies that understand that societal and economic forces have conspired to work against many in our society.”

Preston, in reference to the above, my point was if the government is already spending 2/3 on entitlements, where is the money going to come from to aid the situation of young black men? Or are you talking about something that doesn’t involve money? You were talking about societal and economic forces right?

I can think of one thing that would equalize everything for everybody, but of course it involves money and that is a voucher system for education in PUBLIC as well as private schools. However, I think that any additional money that would cost would be well spent. I spoke about this on another post yesterday. Way back when my husband went to an Engineering High School in Baltimore. It was a public school, devoted to the pursuit of a career in the construction field. There were other public high schools that specialized in studies related to other types of careers, more like junior colleges of today. He received a wonderful education, but had to get on a city bus and travel a long ways every day to and from school. Also, uniforms (shirt and tie) were required. These schools were very successful and disciplined, and were career oriented. Years later I worked with a guy who graduated from City College (another Baltimore public high school) who became a veterinarian. It worked then; I don’t know why it wouldn’t work now.

What, specifically, are you calling for?

]]> By: Preston http://urbangrounds.com/2006/03/plight-of-blacks/#comment-15091 Preston Thu, 23 Mar 2006 16:16:07 +0000 http://urbangrounds.com/?p=751#comment-15091 <i> I’ll agree to pay for someone to sit on their ass just because they are a different color than me.</i> This certainly has no relation to anything I've advocated. Dianne- of course, your numbers relate largely to programs for the elderly- not anything that is going to situation of young, black men. http://encarta.msn.com/media_461566684/U_S_Government_Spending.html I’ll agree to pay for someone to sit on their ass just because they are a different color than me.

This certainly has no relation to anything I’ve advocated.

Dianne- of course, your numbers relate largely to programs for the elderly- not anything that is going to situation of young, black men.

http://encarta.msn.com/media_461566684/U_S_Government_Spending.html

]]> By: 2 http://urbangrounds.com/2006/03/plight-of-blacks/#comment-15090 2 Thu, 23 Mar 2006 15:11:19 +0000 http://urbangrounds.com/?p=751#comment-15090 As my friend Preston would say, the hell with the law abiding citizens of the black community!!! It will never be a real debate with you, Preston, because you know nothing of the subject and only brought it up because you erroneously thought it would support your looser political agenda. As my friend Preston would say, the hell with the law abiding citizens of the black community!!! It will never be a real debate with you, Preston, because you know nothing of the subject and only brought it up because you erroneously thought it would support your looser political agenda.

]]> By: dianne http://urbangrounds.com/2006/03/plight-of-blacks/#comment-15088 dianne Thu, 23 Mar 2006 14:47:27 +0000 http://urbangrounds.com/?p=751#comment-15088 Preston, Entitlement programs comprise 2/3 of federal spending. http://www.heritage.org/Research/Features/Issues2004/budget-spending.cfm What shall we do? Force those who are already working their asses off to get another job and work harder to pay for those who won't? Or who shall we "take from" to "give to" ? I'm sorry, this country is full of a lot of people who were disadvantaged for some reason, but I'll be damned if I'll agree to pay for someone to sit on their ass just because they are a different color than me. Those days are long gone. Of course the option is to give up capitalism for socialism. Sorry, if I supported that option, I'd live in France. Come to think of it, I'd rather work. Preston,

Entitlement programs comprise 2/3 of federal spending.
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Features/Issues2004/budget-spending.cfm

What shall we do? Force those who are already working their asses off to get another job and work harder to pay for those who won’t?

Or who shall we “take from” to “give to” ?

I’m sorry, this country is full of a lot of people who were disadvantaged for some reason, but I’ll be damned if I’ll agree to pay for someone to sit on their ass just because they are a different color than me. Those days are long gone.

Of course the option is to give up capitalism for socialism. Sorry, if I supported that option, I’d live in France. Come to think of it, I’d rather work.

]]> By: Preston http://urbangrounds.com/2006/03/plight-of-blacks/#comment-15085 Preston Thu, 23 Mar 2006 14:18:16 +0000 http://urbangrounds.com/?p=751#comment-15085 There ya go, 2: Point, Counterpoint- it's almost like a real debate here... In any case I had the amusing experience while watching a documentary on Venezuela yesterday of listening to interviews of the upper and middle class- who make up less than 20% of the society claiming that the problem with the poor was that they didn't work hard enough. Just like my friend 2 would say!!! This in a country that is something like the 4th largest exporter of oil to the US. It's the same argument that was made by the English about the Irish: they were too lazy to not be poor. Yet somehow when the Irish got to a different social and economic environment in the US they prospered. Once again, I'll say the ideology of hard work is what each individual needs to have to succeed. The government however has to enact policies that understand that societal and economic forces have conspired to work against many in our society. There ya go, 2: Point, Counterpoint- it’s almost like a real debate here…

In any case I had the amusing experience while watching a documentary on Venezuela yesterday of listening to interviews of the upper and middle class- who make up less than 20% of the society claiming that the problem with the poor was that they didn’t work hard enough. Just like my friend 2 would say!!! This in a country that is something like the 4th largest exporter of oil to the US.

It’s the same argument that was made by the English about the Irish: they were too lazy to not be poor. Yet somehow when the Irish got to a different social and economic environment in the US they prospered.

Once again, I’ll say the ideology of hard work is what each individual needs to have to succeed. The government however has to enact policies that understand that societal and economic forces have conspired to work against many in our society.

]]> By: dianne http://urbangrounds.com/2006/03/plight-of-blacks/#comment-15083 dianne Thu, 23 Mar 2006 13:50:24 +0000 http://urbangrounds.com/?p=751#comment-15083 Hee Hee...didn't realize we were both from Kansas City area, Dan. I always feel like I'm in Texas when I visit this blog. I like Boulevard Wheat...lol.. Hee Hee…didn’t realize we were both from Kansas City area, Dan. I always feel like I’m in Texas when I visit this blog. I like Boulevard Wheat…lol..

]]> By: Dan http://urbangrounds.com/2006/03/plight-of-blacks/#comment-15075 Dan Thu, 23 Mar 2006 04:29:41 +0000 http://urbangrounds.com/?p=751#comment-15075 Hey, Dianne - not only have we finally agreed on something, we've both earned the scorn of #2. I think I owe you a beer or something. Hey, Dianne – not only have we finally agreed on something, we’ve both earned the scorn of #2. I think I owe you a beer or something.

]]> By: 2 http://urbangrounds.com/2006/03/plight-of-blacks/#comment-15071 2 Thu, 23 Mar 2006 01:05:54 +0000 http://urbangrounds.com/?p=751#comment-15071 <i>The U.S. General Accounting Office Report "DEATH PENALTY SENTENCING: Research Indicates Pattern of Racial Disparities" (GAO/GGD-90-57, 2/90) is cited by opponents as proof that the "race of the victim" effect has been proven. Not quite. First, some of the studies which the GAO included in their analysis included non-capital murders. This certainly impairs the integrity of the results because only capital murders should have been included. Secondly, Drs. Stephen Klein and John Rolph, "Relationship of Offender and Victim Race to Death Penalty Sentences in California"(Jurimetrics Journal, 32, Fall 1991), found that, "After accounting for some of the many factors that may influence penalty decisions, neither race of the defendant nor race of the victim appreciably improved prediction of who was sentenced to death . . . ". Thirdly, Smith College Professors Stanley Rothman and Stephen Powers ("Execution by Quota?", The Public Interest, Summer 1994), found that legal variables, such as prior criminal history and the aggravated nature of the murder, are the proven basis for imposition of the death penalty. The black/white variation in sentencing has generally been reduced to zero when such legal variables are introduced as controls. Fourth, crime statistics show a 4:1 to a 7:1 ratio of white to black victims in circumstances relevant to death penalty cases.. Such ratios are consistent with the 6:1 ratio of white to black victims in death row cases (C.1,2,4,5). Fifth, any affirmative conclusions regarding the GAO study disregards the findings in McCleskey, that an empirical/statistical study cannot separate the causal effect of legitimate factors influencing jury decisions from the effects of possible racial biases, whereby The Court found "Where the discretion that is fundamental to our criminal justice process is involved, we decline to assume that what is unexplained [by measured factors] is invidious."(481 US at 313). See Dr. Joseph Katz’ enforcement of the McCleskey majority: "Statement to the Senate Subcommittee on the Judiciary Concerning the Relationship Between Race and the Death Penalty" 10/2/89. </i> http://www.prodeathpenalty.com/DP.html The U.S. General Accounting Office Report “DEATH PENALTY SENTENCING: Research Indicates Pattern of Racial Disparities” (GAO/GGD-90-57, 2/90) is cited by opponents as proof that the “race of the victim” effect has been proven. Not quite. First, some of the studies which the GAO included in their analysis included non-capital murders. This certainly impairs the integrity of the results because only capital murders should have been included. Secondly, Drs. Stephen Klein and John Rolph, “Relationship of Offender and Victim Race to Death Penalty Sentences in California”(Jurimetrics Journal, 32, Fall 1991), found that, “After accounting for some of the many factors that may influence penalty decisions, neither race of the defendant nor race of the victim appreciably improved prediction of who was sentenced to death . . . “. Thirdly, Smith College Professors Stanley Rothman and Stephen Powers (“Execution by Quota?”, The Public Interest, Summer 1994), found that legal variables, such as prior criminal history and the aggravated nature of the murder, are the proven basis for imposition of the death penalty. The black/white variation in sentencing has generally been reduced to zero when such legal variables are introduced as controls. Fourth, crime statistics show a 4:1 to a 7:1 ratio of white to black victims in circumstances relevant to death penalty cases.. Such ratios are consistent with the 6:1 ratio of white to black victims in death row cases (C.1,2,4,5). Fifth, any affirmative conclusions regarding the GAO study disregards the findings in McCleskey, that an empirical/statistical study cannot separate the causal effect of legitimate factors influencing jury decisions from the effects of possible racial biases, whereby The Court found “Where the discretion that is fundamental to our criminal justice process is involved, we decline to assume that what is unexplained [by measured factors] is invidious.”(481 US at 313). See Dr. Joseph Katz’ enforcement of the McCleskey majority: “Statement to the Senate Subcommittee on the Judiciary Concerning the Relationship Between Race and the Death Penalty” 10/2/89.

http://www.prodeathpenalty.com/DP.html

]]> By: 2 http://urbangrounds.com/2006/03/plight-of-blacks/#comment-15070 2 Thu, 23 Mar 2006 00:43:45 +0000 http://urbangrounds.com/?p=751#comment-15070 If you are going to post a quote and follow it with a link that theoretically the quote is from, the link should lead to that quote. Yours doesn't. Care to try again? And the DPIC is even worse than the other two lefty website you relied on earlier. They are dishonest. And once again, whether a death sentence is handed down depends on specific and unique factors that neither you or the other antideath penalty whackos ever mention. If you are going to post a quote and follow it with a link that theoretically the quote is from, the link should lead to that quote. Yours doesn’t. Care to try again? And the DPIC is even worse than the other two lefty website you relied on earlier. They are dishonest. And once again, whether a death sentence is handed down depends on specific and unique factors that neither you or the other antideath penalty whackos ever mention.

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