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	<title>Comments on: Lamont and the Idiots Who Support Him</title>
	<atom:link href="http://urbangrounds.com/2006/08/lamonts-morons/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://urbangrounds.com/2006/08/lamonts-morons/</link>
	<description>Off-the-cuff commentary on the day&#039;s events</description>
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		<title>By: Preston</title>
		<link>http://urbangrounds.com/2006/08/lamonts-morons/#comment-22823</link>
		<dc:creator>Preston</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Aug 2006 16:21:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://urbangrounds.com/2006/08/07/lamonts-morons/#comment-22823</guid>
		<description>Dianne- from the link you posted 25 Dem senators voted against it, 18 for it and one did not vote.

However, many of the Democrats voted against cloture (against the bill) but switched their votes to support the bill in the final tally.  This is the opposite of what Lieberman did but could be construed as cynical as well (they wanted to be able to show the banking donors something...)   But at least the opponents of the bankruptcy bill had their vote at the crucial moment: the cloture vote.

Also, many Democrats voted for amendments that would have eased the worst impacts of this bill that I listed earlier.  However Republicans were unified and defeated each of the amendments.

Why did so many vote for it?  Banking money and Republican control of Congress and the White House.

For example, in 1991 18 Senators voted for an amendment to a bill that would have limited the interest rate charged by credit cards to 14% yet in 2005 voted against an amendment that would have limited the interest rate to 30%.  Strange?  Not if you consider the money they&#039;d received from banks in the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/bankruptcy/archives/2005/03/27-week/index.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;interim.&lt;/a&gt;

But the other factor is Republican control in my opinion.  It&#039;s easier to vote against the big donors when you know that your side will prevail.  But to be on the losing side &lt;strong&gt;and&lt;/strong&gt; to vote against the money seems tougher.  Once Republican control of government assured the passage of the bill, many Democrats fell in line- the jerks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dianne- from the link you posted 25 Dem senators voted against it, 18 for it and one did not vote.</p>
<p>However, many of the Democrats voted against cloture (against the bill) but switched their votes to support the bill in the final tally.  This is the opposite of what Lieberman did but could be construed as cynical as well (they wanted to be able to show the banking donors something&#8230;)   But at least the opponents of the bankruptcy bill had their vote at the crucial moment: the cloture vote.</p>
<p>Also, many Democrats voted for amendments that would have eased the worst impacts of this bill that I listed earlier.  However Republicans were unified and defeated each of the amendments.</p>
<p>Why did so many vote for it?  Banking money and Republican control of Congress and the White House.</p>
<p>For example, in 1991 18 Senators voted for an amendment to a bill that would have limited the interest rate charged by credit cards to 14% yet in 2005 voted against an amendment that would have limited the interest rate to 30%.  Strange?  Not if you consider the money they&#8217;d received from banks in the <a href="http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/bankruptcy/archives/2005/03/27-week/index.php" rel="nofollow">interim.</a></p>
<p>But the other factor is Republican control in my opinion.  It&#8217;s easier to vote against the big donors when you know that your side will prevail.  But to be on the losing side <strong>and</strong> to vote against the money seems tougher.  Once Republican control of government assured the passage of the bill, many Democrats fell in line- the jerks.</p>
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		<title>By: dianne</title>
		<link>http://urbangrounds.com/2006/08/lamonts-morons/#comment-22812</link>
		<dc:creator>dianne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Aug 2006 12:50:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://urbangrounds.com/2006/08/07/lamonts-morons/#comment-22812</guid>
		<description>Preston - 40 democrats voted FOR the bankruptcy bill.  Only 25 voted against it and Lieberman was one of them.  Now, what does that say?  The fact that Lieberman voted for cloture was probably due to the fact that the majority of the Democrats had already decided to vote for it and he knew it (speculating).  I mean, that sorta makes sense. 

The bigger question is, why did so many democrats support it?  I don&#039;t have time to check all the votes on the amendments to the bill (are they available on line)?  I&#039;d be interested to see how that went down.  I happen to agree with you on &quot;most&quot; of the points you made above concerning what&#039;s wrong with the bill and am curious  why anyone (republican or democrat) would support a bill that penalized people for medical expenses, for example.  Surely, someone must have offered an amendment to exempt medical expenses?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Preston &#8211; 40 democrats voted FOR the bankruptcy bill.  Only 25 voted against it and Lieberman was one of them.  Now, what does that say?  The fact that Lieberman voted for cloture was probably due to the fact that the majority of the Democrats had already decided to vote for it and he knew it (speculating).  I mean, that sorta makes sense. </p>
<p>The bigger question is, why did so many democrats support it?  I don&#8217;t have time to check all the votes on the amendments to the bill (are they available on line)?  I&#8217;d be interested to see how that went down.  I happen to agree with you on &#8220;most&#8221; of the points you made above concerning what&#8217;s wrong with the bill and am curious  why anyone (republican or democrat) would support a bill that penalized people for medical expenses, for example.  Surely, someone must have offered an amendment to exempt medical expenses?</p>
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		<title>By: Preston</title>
		<link>http://urbangrounds.com/2006/08/lamonts-morons/#comment-22775</link>
		<dc:creator>Preston</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Aug 2006 17:45:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://urbangrounds.com/2006/08/07/lamonts-morons/#comment-22775</guid>
		<description>Damn, I messed it up:  Lieberman voted against cloture (ie &lt;strong&gt;for the bankruptcy bill &lt;/strong&gt;in the critical vote) then he voted &lt;strong&gt;against the bankruptcy bill &lt;/strong&gt; in the final- irrelevant vote (but at the point when the &#039;scorecards&#039; are tallied.

In that way he was able to please both his banking donors and the liberal watchdogs (at least the ones not watching too closely).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Damn, I messed it up:  Lieberman voted against cloture (ie <strong>for the bankruptcy bill </strong>in the critical vote) then he voted <strong>against the bankruptcy bill </strong> in the final- irrelevant vote (but at the point when the &#8217;scorecards&#8217; are tallied.</p>
<p>In that way he was able to please both his banking donors and the liberal watchdogs (at least the ones not watching too closely).</p>
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		<title>By: Preston</title>
		<link>http://urbangrounds.com/2006/08/lamonts-morons/#comment-22773</link>
		<dc:creator>Preston</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Aug 2006 17:41:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://urbangrounds.com/2006/08/07/lamonts-morons/#comment-22773</guid>
		<description>Dianne:

I thought I had written already about the cynical way that Lieberman had voted &lt;strong&gt;against &lt;/strong&gt;cloture- the only opportunity that the Democrats had to stop the bill- and then&lt;strong&gt; for&lt;/strong&gt; the final bill itself.  

Lieberman was alone in this level of cynicism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dianne:</p>
<p>I thought I had written already about the cynical way that Lieberman had voted <strong>against </strong>cloture- the only opportunity that the Democrats had to stop the bill- and then<strong> for</strong> the final bill itself.  </p>
<p>Lieberman was alone in this level of cynicism.</p>
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		<title>By: dianne</title>
		<link>http://urbangrounds.com/2006/08/lamonts-morons/#comment-22740</link>
		<dc:creator>dianne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Aug 2006 13:31:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://urbangrounds.com/2006/08/07/lamonts-morons/#comment-22740</guid>
		<description>&quot;We will no longer have a senator who supports vile legislation like the bankruptcy bill&quot;

Preston - out of curiosity I looked up the voting records for that vile legislation you referred to and curiously, I note Lieberman voted against it.
  
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&amp;session=1&amp;vote=00044

Am I looking at the wrong bankruptcy bill or what &quot;vile legislation&quot;&quot; are you referring to?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;We will no longer have a senator who supports vile legislation like the bankruptcy bill&#8221;</p>
<p>Preston &#8211; out of curiosity I looked up the voting records for that vile legislation you referred to and curiously, I note Lieberman voted against it.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&amp;session=1&amp;vote=00044" rel="nofollow">http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&amp;session=1&amp;vote=00044</a></p>
<p>Am I looking at the wrong bankruptcy bill or what &#8220;vile legislation&#8221;" are you referring to?</p>
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		<title>By: Preston</title>
		<link>http://urbangrounds.com/2006/08/lamonts-morons/#comment-22724</link>
		<dc:creator>Preston</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Aug 2006 10:48:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://urbangrounds.com/2006/08/07/lamonts-morons/#comment-22724</guid>
		<description>Bernie, if you seriously want to know the upside:
Joe Lieberman chooses to affiliate himself with the Democratic Party but his rhetoric undermines people he purports to consider allies.  Any Senator can vote his conscience but he crosses the line when he elevates himself over his party as justification for that vote.  

We will no longer have  a Senator who supports vile legislation like the bankruptcy bill or a Senator who lectures to his constituents how it is necessary for the Federal Government to become involved with the life and death decisions of the family of Terri Schiavo.  We will no longer have a Senator who believes that unprovoked pre-emptive war is good for our country or one who believes that the war in Iraq is going just fine, thank you.

The upside is that it was a Democratic primary and every six years we get to decide who represents us and we betray the principles of this country&#039;s founding when we assent to unrepresentative rule simply because of some principle of entitlement.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bernie, if you seriously want to know the upside:<br />
Joe Lieberman chooses to affiliate himself with the Democratic Party but his rhetoric undermines people he purports to consider allies.  Any Senator can vote his conscience but he crosses the line when he elevates himself over his party as justification for that vote.  </p>
<p>We will no longer have  a Senator who supports vile legislation like the bankruptcy bill or a Senator who lectures to his constituents how it is necessary for the Federal Government to become involved with the life and death decisions of the family of Terri Schiavo.  We will no longer have a Senator who believes that unprovoked pre-emptive war is good for our country or one who believes that the war in Iraq is going just fine, thank you.</p>
<p>The upside is that it was a Democratic primary and every six years we get to decide who represents us and we betray the principles of this country&#8217;s founding when we assent to unrepresentative rule simply because of some principle of entitlement.</p>
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		<title>By: bernie</title>
		<link>http://urbangrounds.com/2006/08/lamonts-morons/#comment-22684</link>
		<dc:creator>bernie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Aug 2006 23:10:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://urbangrounds.com/2006/08/07/lamonts-morons/#comment-22684</guid>
		<description>I can&#039;t figure the upside for the KOS-Kids.   Lieberman was already voting 90% Democratic issues.  I imagine there were a few times when he might have gone either way on an issue but because he wanted to remain true to his party he voted Democratic.   If he wins, he will have no compunction to continue doing so.  

If Lamont wins, it may well force Hillary to go left of center in which case they have guaranteed her loss in a presidential race.

Next we will see these idiots eating their young.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can&#8217;t figure the upside for the KOS-Kids.   Lieberman was already voting 90% Democratic issues.  I imagine there were a few times when he might have gone either way on an issue but because he wanted to remain true to his party he voted Democratic.   If he wins, he will have no compunction to continue doing so.  </p>
<p>If Lamont wins, it may well force Hillary to go left of center in which case they have guaranteed her loss in a presidential race.</p>
<p>Next we will see these idiots eating their young.</p>
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		<title>By: Robbie</title>
		<link>http://urbangrounds.com/2006/08/lamonts-morons/#comment-22647</link>
		<dc:creator>Robbie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Aug 2006 12:41:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://urbangrounds.com/2006/08/07/lamonts-morons/#comment-22647</guid>
		<description>And it looks like unbridled hate (which manifested itself in actual physical assaults on others) was defeated in Georgia.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And it looks like unbridled hate (which manifested itself in actual physical assaults on others) was defeated in Georgia.</p>
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