Well, Robbie, it stands to reason that growing from a young man in your 20’s to a less young man in your 30’s your personal economic situation will have improved. My point has been that you are not doing as well as a similar man in his 30’s would have done 10 years ago because incomes have risen very little while important expenses of education, health, housing, and fuel have skyrocketed. (As it happens, you are now in the sweet spot where you aren’t so interested in the cost of education and healthcare, but it won’t be long…)

Yes, if we don’t account for inflation the stock market is back where it was 6 years ago but everyone but retirees and the very wealthy is much more dependent on the status of wages and prices than how IBM is doing. Your reference to this milestone indicates that you are indeed doing well- well enough to be out of the mainstream.

Left by Preston on October 27th, 2006 at 9:15 am

It helps to compare the worst day of the Clinton era of prosperity to the best day of the Bush era. It also helps to ignore the fact that Bush has achieved his mediocrity only through charging our grandchildren’s credit cards, while Clinton created a surplus.

Left by Dan on October 27th, 2006 at 9:35 am

Here is a VERY interesting chart. It only relates to home prices but covers over a century. In 1997, the very year of the market crash Robbie is talking about, the laws were changed to exempt from taxable income gains on sale of a home up to $500,000 for marrieds, half that for singles and look what happened to the cost of housing. It is also my understanding that we have record homeownership in this country right now.

Certainly, this has increased the wealth of many Americans, ordinary Americans, but consider this. Let’s say you’re 30. I know a lot of 30 year olds with pretty dang fancy houses mortgaged to the hilt. I would be very careful given this chart. What goes up must come down, especially if the tax laws are ever changed.

Just one tidbit not necessarily tied to today’s topic, but as far as I’m concerned an eye opener which should not be ignored.

Left by dianne on October 27th, 2006 at 10:41 am

It is also my understanding that we have record homeownership in this country right now.

True, but we have pretty much had record owner ship levels every year since WWII and the introduction of FHA insured mortgages.

Left by Preston on October 27th, 2006 at 11:12 am

It also helps to ignore the fact that Bush has achieved his mediocrity only through charging our grandchildren’s credit cards, while Clinton created a surplus.

Great point, Dan. When I look at the the inaction on so many of the pressing problems of the day: health care, global warming, 5 dollar an hour minimum wage, I try to be sympathetic to a right wing ideology that perhaps wants to solve problems in a ‘different’ way. But when the richest 1% are given tax cuts that have left the rest of us $9,000 in debt there is no escaping the conclusion that these are deeply irresponsible people in our government.

In the best of circumstances this debt will be paid by our children. The worst case scenario is if China calls in its 339 billion dollars in US securities all at once. To put our country at risk of blackmail and to jeopardize US security in this way to a totalitarian, strategic rival will not be judged well by future historians.

Left by Preston on October 27th, 2006 at 11:56 am

Preston…From a purely personal, selfish point of view, I don’t care if the Democrats want to tax anybody who makes above $250K/yr at 40 percent. I’ve been there, done that and paid the friggin alternative minimum tax and the whole nine yards…thank you President Clinton! Now it’s somebody elses turn.

Now, however, I am retired and live on a modest pension and investments which I can control so that I am and will pay less than I ever have in my whole life, while, I might add, giving away whatever I have by whatever means I can to my daughter before I croak so she won’t have to pay the death tax when it’s restored to estates above $650K (which is where it was originally before Bush’s tax cuts. I’ve got a generation skipping trust set up for my granddaughters so they’ll be ok too. I don’t need a job anymore if the economy tanks and my house is paid for. And, to stick the knife in as far as I can, consider that my millions of baby booming cohorts will probably do the same thing while draining the social security and medicare systems desert dry.

I can “see” the steam rising from your ears already. lol

Left by dianne on October 27th, 2006 at 1:38 pm

You’re blaming the AMT on Clinton? They began under Nixon.

Also you should note that the threshold for the estate tax was rising up to one million dollars before Bush came into office and will stay there even if the estate tax returns in 2011. It should be at least that high- and definitely continue to make exemptions for small business owners and farmers.

Besides that why would the ’steam come from my ears’ from anything you wrote?

Left by Preston on October 27th, 2006 at 2:34 pm

I stand corrected on the $1 million figure. I did not realize it was “scheduled” to go to that figure before Bush took office. Many states, however, retain the old $675K exemption.

Also, I was speaking of the tax rate when thanking Clinton, but I also paid the AMT at the same time.

I was trying to get your goat with regard to SS etc. Guess it didn’t work..lol…

Left by dianne on October 27th, 2006 at 4:48 pm

Oh that. I want you to have Social Security- it’s the other side that would prefer some, oh, I don’t know what they want, they never really got around to saying. I trust that SS it will be around for at least the next 45 years that they are projecting as their worst case scenario- so enjoy your retirement.

Left by Preston on October 27th, 2006 at 5:01 pm

Preston…I think you’re a good hearted soul. But, I have to say if I had to live on my SS, well, things wouldn’t be so good. It’s my 401K and pension benefits that have made the difference and that I was able to retire early working for a great company that gave me health benefits even as a retiree. There was a day when the Democrat Party championed pension benefits via Unions. SS isn’t what it was designed to be as you well know. Disability and survivor benefits have taken a huge chunk. People must have other means to live well. If I didn’t have my 401 K, well let me tell you I wouldn’t be living so well. Yah SS may last through the boomer generation, but then it is done, finished. I cannot understand why you do not understand that individual retirement accounts are what makes the difference. The stock market, yes it goes up and down, but if it collapses, which is what the dems fear, well then we’re all in the hole no matter what.

I have a family and I care about them. I want them to understand that you cannot rely on the government to take care of you. Life is not like that. You have to look out for your own future and you should demand that the government that taxes your future should let you define how that future is framed.

Now there are those people that are not capable of understanding finances at all. For whatever reason, no education, bad upbringing, whatever…we can’t teach teach them financial security. ‘They won’t hold the steady job no matter what we do. Some will turn to selling crack to make the quick buck. Others will just struggle and get by. And, we should help them, but I firmly believe we can still do that if we allow those who can help themselves do it. If we take that away, everyone will fall.

The other option is communism or socialism.

You are an educated, passionate man. How can you not see the future?

Left by dianne on October 28th, 2006 at 2:43 pm

I’ve said before that I support add-on individual retirement accounts from the government. However, I personally happen to value the survivor benefits and disability insurance that would disappear if we were to eliminate Social Security. This country has been down and rejected the path of destitute orphans and cripples.

Left by Preston on October 29th, 2006 at 6:10 am

well preston being so edemucated. social security . common sense which they always say why do they call it common sense when its not so common . the first person to get s.s. only put into into it for 3 months was set for the rest of his/her life from the get go was imbalanced . dooooy. social security was never meant to carry anyones ass forever. befor s.s you worked hard and took care of your parents and yourself and your children would do the same for you. the the gov. ( i am republican of course ) said people arent smart enough like the animals ( squirrels , birds , etc. to put food (money away) for the hard times aka “old days ” you know cant take care of themselves days . s.s is something which has good intentions but when you start it off wrong , will never be right. you need to supplement it yourself . Bush wanted to do that. But wait he’s taking money from the government the dems dont want that , thats giving money to the people (who they supposedly fight for ) . democraps are such liars about who they care about . welfare is great in theory but when your counting your money in the morning (see republicans arent just the rich like moron democraps try to portray it as) and some kid comes in , in a brand new ride and a fist full of money and a ohio card aka welfare card, it just makes you want to puke. and thats what democraps want more money for the poor . but they dont police the so called poor.blames troubles on the rich bust my butt and watch the poor ride in better cars than me. democraps suck . welfare is a great idea to get someone on their feet. but not to just sit their and feed their ass forever. demopoops also want to let in more illegals . you morons are destroying this country. but your for the people? yah right!!!!

Left by John B on November 7th, 2006 at 8:53 pm