If you have a second, could you explain how reporting the testimony of other soldiers to Congress is considered by the Right to be traitorous?

Also I haven’t heard in what way he misled people into thinking he was throwing his own medals away.

Left by Preston on December 27th, 2006 at 1:46 pm

I didn’t claim that the Right thought Kerry’s actions were traitorous. I said that members of the military (who are overwhelmingly Right of Center) consider his actions to be traitorous.

Perhaps treasonous is a bit strong — but at the least most military men and women find found it dispicable when Kerry publicly made assertions about supposed atrocities in VN, which he eventually admitted he had never observed personally. And thus most military folks consider his actions traitorous to his fellow brothers-in-arms.

As for the medals — Kerry threw medals over the White House fence that were the same medals that he was suspiciously awarded (he threw a Purple Heart = he was awarded a Purple Heart).

Any logically thinking person would assume that the Purple Heart that he threw over the fence was one that had been awarded. Otherwise the impact of his actions was meaningless.

It was later learned that he purchased the medals that he threw form a surplus store, while his own precious medals (that he didn’t hate enough to throw over the WH fence) were safe at home.

__________

If I knew that you had been awarded the Boy Scout World Conservation Award Merit Badge, and then later, I see you throwing that very badge over a fence to protest something…I would logically assume that it was your Merit Badge that you threw away…and not some meaningless replica.

Do you really see this differently? Because if you do, then it’s a measure of perspective whose gap we aren’t going to be able to close, and we’ll just have to agree to disagree on Kerry’s intentions when he threw those medals.

Left by Robbie on December 27th, 2006 at 2:59 pm

Can You Feel The Love Tonight?

Massachusetts Senator John Kerry, known for blowing his own horn about his military service, just isn’t feeling the love from our troops. Of course, it could have something to do with his ‘failed joke’, or his attitude toward our tro…

Left by CommonSenseAmerica on December 27th, 2006 at 3:26 pm

Sometimes I wonder about John Kerry. Is he so delusional that he thinks he’s not insulting the troops? Maybe he is. It’s one thing to blast the government for going to war, but it’s another to even hint that those who put themselves in harms way to protect us are responsible for atrocities or are somehow less intelligent than anyone else. I don’t think he gets it and for that reason, he has no business being commander in chief of our armed forces.

John Kerry’s ego is what betrays him and it betrays us, the American people. He doesn’t understand the ordinary American citizen because his whole life has been one of privilege. He’s never going to be an American president. And, he ’s never going to understand the American soldier.

Left by dianne on December 27th, 2006 at 5:29 pm

Despite the fact that I believe that he would have been an immense improvement from the President we have now John Kerry is simply not a good politician. The fact that he is from Mass. has insulated him from the many blunders he commits.

As far as him ‘insulting the troops’ the recent blowup was nonsense. It’s obvious from the transcript that Kerry was making a (boring and politically unhelpful) ‘Bush is dumb’ joke.

Dianne- in what way has George Bush’s entire life not been one of privilege: prep school, Yale, special placement into the National Guard, failed business bailouts, and the Presidency of the United States?

Left by Preston on December 27th, 2006 at 7:22 pm

Preston - Bush’s entire life has NOT been one of privilege. He faced years of hangovers, and daddy’s friends and millions couldn’t help him avoid them. Sometimes, he couldn’t score enough cocaine to feed his habit, and he suffered. Plus, he’s always been surrounded by people who are smarter than him, which is frustrating and difficult. Bush has had a life filled with struggles.

Left by Dan on December 28th, 2006 at 7:53 am

Granted Bush didn’t grow up poor, but at least he’s learned how to swing an axe. There isn’t a poor politician in national politics. Kerry just happens to have more wealth than anyone else and of course that’s due in part to the dowry he acquired via marriage.

As I write this down home John Edwards is announcing his candidacy in the ninth ward of New Orleans. He’s dressed in blue jeans with a cotton blue shirt in the most impoverished of areas. His wealth doesn’t show one bit, not even the money he didn’t pay taxes on. John ought to take a lesson from John.

Left by dianne on December 28th, 2006 at 9:06 am

I work for a news feed company (internet news) and see plenty of pictures of Kerry from the AP feed on this trip standing with soldiers who are talking . Everyone has a quiet moment at a table.

Left by JohnJ on December 28th, 2006 at 1:06 pm

Well, JohnJ, sometimes a Soldier simply does what he is ordered to do.

But you must not have read the story that accompanied the picture — from a Soldier who was there. You probably didn’t get much of that in your AP feed…

Left by Robbie on December 28th, 2006 at 1:54 pm

I hate Kerry with a passion for the many lies he’s told about his mini-tour in Viet Nam, and the many times he’s slandered the military in general and the service of other veterans in particular.

( Oh and Preston, fasely accusing the men you served with of war crimes during a shooting war is “aid and comfort to the enemy”, which is of course the defination of treason. )

Still, I wasn’t surprised to see MM’s post which calls the reference photo in question.

Courtesy and respect for our elected goverment is an ingrained military virtue. I can not concieve of a U.S. Senator sitting alone in a military dining facility. I have to think that the guy in the camo may have been the only solider in the embassy dining room at that time.

Left by Jim Howard on December 28th, 2006 at 1:58 pm

Dianne- a generation ago people didn’t need these phony portrayals of how politicians are ‘just like us’. While television brought us a closer look at polticians it has unfortunately forced them to go through these phony actions.

JohnJ-
You make a good point. The comparison is with other politicians in another thread is also pretty thin- did those politicians just sit down at a crowded table? Who knows?

Left by Preston on December 28th, 2006 at 2:11 pm

Just to be clear- here is the Malkin post refered to by Jim that undermines the jist of this post.

Jim- Kerry was before Congress reporting the stories of what other soldiers told him they had seen and done.

Also Jim- Kerry served two tours in Vietnam. It was only after his third injury did he cut short his second tour. The willingness of the right to impugn the service of anyone who refuses to toe their line politically is a little disturbing.

Left by Preston on December 28th, 2006 at 2:31 pm

Bottom line though: the Troops and Veterans hate John Kerry. Period.

Left by Robbie on December 28th, 2006 at 3:34 pm

Preston, how you can listen to or read Kerry’s testimony and say that he was ‘reporting the stories of what other soldiers told him’ is beyond me. Virtually every sentance starts with ‘We’.

Here is what Kerry said on Meet the Press in 1971:

There are all kinds of atrocities, and I would have to say that, yes, yes, I committed the same kind of atrocities as thousands of other soldiers have committed in that I took part in shootings in free fire zones. I conducted harassment and interdiction fire. I used 50 calibre machine guns, which we were granted and ordered to use, which were our only weapon against people. I took part in search and destroy missions, in the burning of villages. All of this is contrary to the laws of warfare, all of this is contrary to the Geneva Conventions and all of this is ordered as a matter of written established policy by the government of the United States from the top down. And I believe that the men who designed these, the men who designed the free fire zone, the men who ordered us, the men who signed off the air raid strike areas, I think these men, by the letter of the law, the same letter of the law that tried Lieutenant Calley, are war criminals.”

It is a lie to say he served “two tours”, and it is this Kerry lie that makes me hate him with every fibre of my body.

Kerry was in Viet Nam for Four Months, specifically November 1968 through March 1969.

A Viet Nam ‘tour’ was 12 months.

He did not set foot in Viet Nam during what he falsely calls his first ‘tour’, he was a deck officer on the U.S.S. Gridley.

I can respect men like Vice-President Gore and President Bush, because even though their service was not in the front lines, both willingly risked their lives to defend the country, and neither runs around claiming to be some kind of hero.

But Kerrys lies about his own service, such as ‘two tours’, ‘Christmas in Cambodia’, and his fake purple hearts place him beneth contemp.

Left by Jim Howard on December 28th, 2006 at 5:58 pm

And it wasn’t long before the story was off and running. Be sure to check out these hilarious opinions flying around the blogs: Jon Carry Stuck in Irak…alone from GOP and the City calls this move by our troops, “Classic”! In John Kerry Snubbed by Troops on Visit to Iraq UrbanGrounds writes, “That John Kerry thought going to Iraq to meet with Soldiers would be a good idea shows just how dillusional and idiotic the junior Senator from Massachusetts is.” In One is the loneliest number …

Left by One Old Vet - The Opinions and World View of One Old Veteran on Immigration and Other Hot Political Issues on December 28th, 2006 at 9:05 pm

Just to be clear- here is the Malkin post refered to by Jim that undermines the jist of this post.

Not so — if you’ll go back and re-read that same post, you’ll see that Michelle and her readers (to include a bunch of military personell who are in a much better position to verify the accuracy of the photo than the arm-chair journalists at TMP Muckracker) have clearly verified the authenticity of the photo in question.

Oh, and TMPmuckracker has as much as retracted his “fauxtography” allegations, too.

The picture is legit, and the troops still hate Kerry.

Left by Robbie on December 29th, 2006 at 10:27 am

I hope I’ve established my Kerry-hating creditials, but I’m still skeptical about the photo. I really just can’t concieve that there wasn’t five or six GIs willing to sit with a U.S. Senator.

The left is totally dedicated to the ‘fake-but-accurate’ system of reporting, it is important that those of us on the right not give in to the same temptation.

Left by Jim Howard on December 29th, 2006 at 11:05 am

Powerline has a good roundup, including pictures that confirm the fact that the picture is in fact the Iraq embassy dining room. One comment I read ( I think at the Althouse blog) said that Kerry had come in at the end of the lunch period, so few soilders were sitting down to eat at the time.

Most GIs distain Kerry, but I’m sure he could get five of them to sit at his table at lunch.

Left by Jim Howard on December 29th, 2006 at 1:25 pm

Hello Idiots..

Your “Kerry snubbed” photo has been proven to be nothing like you wanted it to be. Maybe you should read some Liberal Media sites.

Ha-Ha.

Left by Anonymous on January 7th, 2007 at 1:25 pm

I found out a long time that there are two sides to every story. I don’t have a clue what’s going on in that picture—just something that someone said. I’m not a Kerry fan but I will never forget the fact that he did serve was in combat in Vietnam and was wounded on more than one occasion (regardless of how superficial). The reason I bring that up is the fact that bush was snorting too much coke, refused to take a physical and did not serve his country but everyone just chooses to put their head up their collective a–es and conveniently let it slide. Now that is a fact and people can dance around it all they want—doesn’t change the fact that Rove brilliantly spun it out of control and Kerry was too much of a wet dish rag to counter it and deserved to lose the election.

Vietnam and the Bill O’Reilly Nothing But Spin Zone

Jackie Corr, Butte Montana

Nobody who watches television can doubt that Bill O’Reilly is the leader of the pack over at Fox News where he hosts the Rupert Murdoch journalistic centerpiece, “The O’Reilly Factor,” a talk show where intelligent people yell and scream at each other to the delight of the host. O’Reilly also has three current books in print, The O’Reilly Factor, The No Spin Zone, and a fictional account of the TV news racket called Those Who Trespass. Not once in any of the three books is the word Vietnam mentioned.

But Vietnam aside, O’Reilly’s popularity to a great degree is based on his warm relationship with America’s army of Bill and Hillary haters. And his enemy’s list is not limited to the Clintons, running from Martha Stewart to Jesse Jackson. Another factor of The O’Reilly Factor, is faithful audience identification, hard-core loyalists who never doubt that the Clintons are guilty and their champion remains the strident and abrasive foe of America’s mostly rich liberal elite at whose hands working class O’Reilly has suffered grievously.

Despite the suffering and snubs that have been inflicted on him, O’Reilly never ceases to remind the audience of his nobility and that he is true to who he is: “I’m working-class Irish American Bill O’Reilly.” Of course, O’Reilly’s definition of working class is as bizarre as that of President George Bush who never worked a day in his life while his spins reek of the same fantasies as those of his brother Foxie, “General” Geraldo Rivera, the savior of Afghanistan. But left out of the O’Reilly past is any evidence of “Just Plain Bill” working at a menial or blue collar job or time served in the American military.

The Vietnam War simply never happened.

So let’s get to the point. The striking fact of O’Reilly’s past is that the Vietnam War simply never happened. In “Bill O’Reilly’s Nothing But Spin Zone,” the great eraser works tirelessly and he comes from a world where there is no Vietnam and no draft which is rather strange for someone who grew up in the era. Vietnam, the overwhelming event of O’Reilly’s high school and college years is never mentioned in his books nor on his television show. Even in his attacks on Clinton there no mention of “Slick Willie Clinton the Draft Dodger.” And the why of it is pretty simple. Bill O’Reilly at least matched Bill Clinton’s Vietnam War record.

O’Reilly graduated from Chaminade High School in Long Island in 1967, a year in which 10,000 Americans, some younger then O’Reilly, died in Vietnam. And in these years, 1967-1968, O’Reilly would have to register for the draft and then make a decision. While America’s lower economic classes were being drafted or enlisting there was a ways out for many of the despised liberal elite. It was called the college deferment followed by graduate school.

And Vietnam was not something that you just overlooked or forgot about. In 1967-68, American airwaves and newspapers were filled with stories of battles called Operation Cedar Falls and Junction City, of places named KheSan, Locninh, DakTo, as well as the Tet Offensive and the MyLai massacre. And there were massive demonstrations and marches in cities and on campuses including the famous Kent State photograph.

Yet O’Reilly, at his age and single, was high priority draftee material yet never enlisted or was drafted and his record of the Vietnam era remains blank. Today’s - but not yesterday’s - super patriot, entered Marist College in Poughkeepsie, New York in the fall of 1967. He was active as a columnist for the student newspaper The Circle as well as a member of the football team which meant he suffered no great physical handicap which would exempt him from military service.

In the bloodiest days of the Vietnam war we find Bill O’Reilly and Bill Clinton as college students in England.

O’Reilly spent his junior year, 1969-1970 at the University of London. The previous year, 1968, Bill Clinton had entered Oxford. So in the heat of the Vietnam war and its greatest battles, we find Bill O’Reilly and Bill Clinton as college students in England. In these years, U.S. troops in Vietnam topped the half million mark and American combat deaths now totaled thirty-three thousand, a sum greater than the Korean War. And in 1969, Life magazine shocked America with portrait photos of all 242 Americans killed in Vietnam in just one single week.

Then, in the fall of 1970, he returned to Marist College from England, rejoined the football team and graduated in 1971 with a Bachelor of Arts degree in history. In that year, 1971, American deaths in Vietnam passed the forty-five thousand marker.

Additionally, at the time of O’Reilly’s graduation, a draft extension bill was passed along with what was then known as the Mansfield Amendment which set a national policy of withdrawing troops from Vietnam 9 months after the bill’s enactment (wording was later softened to the “earliest practical date”). It was the first time in modern US history that Congress had urged an end to a war in which the country was actively involved

Yet after graduation, and with the conscription law and the draft lottery in full force, O’Reilly would never be inducted. Instead, he was off to Florida where he took a job teaching at a high school. Two years later, in 1973, he was back in college at Boston University for a master’s degree in broadcast journalism. By that time he finished at Boston U., the draft and the war were history. And neither would ever play any part in the life of one of America’s most vocal defenders of patriotic ways and values.

Despite O’Reilly’s historical amnesia, Vietnam and the draft really did happen. Two million Americans served in Vietnam with 500,000 seeing actual combat. The latest number of killed in action totaled 47,244. In addition there were 10,446 non-combat deaths while 153,329 Americans were seriously wounded, including 10,000 amputees and over 2400 American POWs/MIAs.

But in “The Nothing But Spin Zone” you will find not one word about Vietnam or the draft. It simply never happened in Bill O’Reilly’s version of the Irish - American working class theme park.

Left by PETE on January 7th, 2007 at 3:10 pm

As per:

John Kerry Snubbed in Iraq

…the pic in question was taken during an off-the-record breakfast meeting w/Kerry and a couple of reporters, not during his meet-and-greet w/the troops.

Left by Chuck on January 11th, 2007 at 6:06 am

Kerry was snubbed by the troops on his visit to Iraq. Read the letter from the soldier who was there that submitted the photo, who said that Kerry was “avoided like the plague”.

Perhaps Kerry “sought out reporters” to sit with him, because no Soldiers would?

Besides…if you buy your own spin…think about what it says and what it really means: Mr. Kerry can speak with members of the NY press corps any damn time he wants — on or off the record. His ability to meet with troops in the field (and there was a company of Reservist from MA at the location he was visiting) is limited only to when he visits them in the field.

So, while he was there, he chose to snub the troops and dine with members of the NY press instead.

Which story do you like better? The Troops snubbed Kerry, or Kerry snubbed the Troops? That’s OK, you don’t have to choose — they’re both accurate and true.

There’s no way to spin how the Troops feel about Kerry — they hate him.

Left by Robbie on January 11th, 2007 at 9:50 am