UPDATE (2-16-07) — Manhart has been stripped of her rank (busted down from E-5 to E-4), and stripped of her active duty status.
________
Staff Sgt. Michelle Manhart is a drill sergeant in the US Airforce at Lackland Air Force Base in San Antonio, Texas.
Manhart is in trouble after posing for a six-page spread titled “Tough Love” in the upcoming issue of Playboy magazine:
Manhart, 30, who is married with two children, has been relieved of her duties pending an investigation, according to Lackland AFB spokesman Oscar Balladares.
“This staff sergeant’s alleged action does not meet the high standards we expect of our airmen, nor does it comply with the Air Force’s core values of integrity, service before self, and excellence in all we do. It is not representative of the many thousands of outstanding airmen who serve in the U.S. Air Force today,” Balladares said, reading a statement.
When you join the military, you agree to a code of standards and of conduct that is significantly more stringent than those of the rest of society. Posing for nude pictures in Playboy violates that code.
The pictorial’s accompanying article mentioned the possibility of trouble for the brunette drill instructor. But when asked in the article whether it might get her in “hot water with Uncle Sam,” Manhart replied: “I’ve been serving for 13 years, fighting for everyone’s rights. Why wouldn’t I be able to stand up for my own rights and participate in the freedoms that make this country what it is?”
You’re a Staff Sergeant, Michelle, so you know as well as anybody that you relinquished some of your individual rights and freedoms when you enlisted in the Air Force. You didn’t sign up to “participate” in these particular types of freedoms. You signed-up to protect them.
If Ssgt Manhart didn’t think she’d get in trouble over this, then why did she do it without permission from her commanding officers and the Air Force? Simple answer is that this NCO knew that what she was doing was not permitted according to Air Force regulations.
___________
If SSgt Manhart wants to stay in the military, I hope that she is allowed to without too severe of punishment for her actions. But I do think that she should be punished. At the very least, I don’t think she should be allowed to continue her current assignment as a drill instructor.
OTHERS:
Why she couldn’t have just finished out her current term of service and then done this, I don’t know.
Oh wait, yes I do: Because then Playboy wouldn’t have been particularly interested in her. They made it clear, I’m guessing, that the whole pictorial depended on her being an AF sergeant at the time of the shoot; she had to either violate the AF’s code or forgo the offer entirely.
Which would mean that Playboy is civilly liable, if the government wanted to push it, for tortious interference with a contract, but of course no one would.
The Air Force loses an NCO, a woman loses a career, and Playboy, which no one ever even jokes about anymore, gets a little press, but I guess they were the most desperate of the three.
Yep.
And Say Anything:
What’s sort of sad is that I get the idea that Playboy probably used all this for publicity. She’s a good-looking girl, but she’s not exactly Playboy caliber if you know what I mean. I’m thinking the folks at the magazine probably ran her in it more because she’s an officer in our military rather than despite it knowing full well that the resulting controversy would be good for their copy sales.
Yep to that too. Say Anything also has copies of the actual Playboy pictures in his latest update.
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who read this fine publication. Honestly though, what’s wrong with wanting to bare a little for the guys out there. I’m sure it helps the enemy some how. We’ll just have to wait and see what the excuse is. And of course the links. Here you go: Urban Undergrounds
Photo of Michelle Manhart The NUDE Playboy photos of Michelle Manhart are available HERE . Just click though on page 1, 2, and 3. You might also find the naked photos where they belong at Playboy. Hat tip: Urban Grounds. Lawhawk has something to say. And so does the ABC News story: An Air Force staff sergeant who posed nude for Playboy magazine has been relieved of her duties while the military investigates, officials said Thursday.
In the brig plus a large fine and then discharged. I don’t think she can lead and she cost the AF a lot of money.
What a load of crap!!!! So because she’s in the Air Force, she has to give up all her rights? New Flash! If it doesn’t spell it out in her Air Force contract that she can’t pose for Playboy or a similar magazine, then they have no right to discipline her for it. And if it does spell that out it ought to be scrapped now.
Who the hell decides what is “moral” or “immoral” to begin with? Moses? Christ? Jerry Falwell? They can all take their morals and shove them up their asses.
What, this woman is good enough to risk her life and health and leave her kids orphans, but she doesn’t have the right to make extra money showing her body?
Yeah, I just know that if she is killed or maimed, our generous defense department and all the politicians who “love” our troops so much will make sure she and her kids will never want for anything right? Yeah, right!!!!
Talk about screwed up priorities. As far as I’m concerned these people have the god damned right to do anything they damn well want to do on their own time.
It’s a good thing you people won’t ever have to depend on me defending your freedoms, because you sure as hell would all be up the shit creek without a paddle.
Uh hello you do give up those rights when you join the military. Anybody who ever goes through basic or boot camp knows this when you go through your UCMJ brief. She was an NCO and an MTI who train trainees in basic. She cannot lead or train if she cannot follow simple rules. Such as acting in a way that is unbecoming of an USAF member. So I would think that means posing naked for playboy. She is an idiot she should have known better and I”m glad she is no longer an MTI we don’t need people like her bringing discredit to us. Learn about the military before you put up stupid posts.
It does.
they can get her on it because of the ucmj its a ” breack of good order and conduck unbecome a NCO” and un profisionalism.
I’d drop and give her 20! Wowza!
~
Thank God!
OK, she trains airmen just coming into the military. Imagine you are that young civilian trying to cut it in the Air Force, but a month ago you saw your Drill Instructor nude in Playboy. How seriously would you take her when she is trying to train you and instill military values into your life so you can protect America’s freedoms?
My husband is an Officer in the AF and my daughter just graduated this past summer from basic & this lady could very well have been the female TI that she had. It sickens me that someone who has been in for that long and knows the rules & regs is out there teaching these new Airman the very same thing she disrespected. HELLO! Why should they respect her or what she’s teaching them when she blatantly disobeyed in so many ways? She knew what she was doing was wrong & that’s why she didn’t go thru the proper channels and did it anyway. And for the person who said “unless it’s in their contract, ” it *IS* in the contract. She had no permission for this ‘second job ‘or to use the AF for monetary gain or disrespect the military *or* the uniform just for a magazine that wouldn’t have even HIRED her had she not been in the military. Simple as that. I just love how some think signing up for the military is just another job. ITS THE MILITARY!!!!
Had she not been posing nude would you guys be standing up for her? Had it been under age drinking or drugs would you be? She’s a disgrace to the military and to the uniform and I hope she is discharged. Somebody has to set an example, let it be her. They need to start weeding out the rotten apples in the military and stop giving so many damn chances to people who don’t want or deserve them.
Here are the pics:
http://sayanythingblog.com/images/pb1.jpg
http://sayanythingblog.com/images/pb2.jpg
http://sayanythingblog.com/images/pb3.jpg
I hope she made a pile of money, cause she’s going to be unemployed soon. Great body though.
When I entered the Air Force almost all of our classroom instructors included slides of naked women in amoung the wiring diagrams and flow charts.
I well recall one school at Nellis AFB where the course managers hired strippers and include their pictures in almost every ‘offical’ slide.
And let’s not even get started on the family values that were exercised at Clark Air Base.
Unless this NCO was specifically ordered to note appear in Playboy then she should probably get a letter of counciling.
Kicking her out for this? Absurd and hypocritical to the max! Just google ‘Barstoolers’.
Jim is right. And what about the Tailhook scandal? Oh, and by the way, when are they going to get around to disciplining the assholes that tried to push evangelical Christianity on recruits, trying to coerce them with their positions of authority. Strangely enough, that seems to have been swept under the rug.
Oh,and by the way, to the person who asked about how a new recruit would take her, if I was that recruit I would take her dead seriously. I would treat her with the same degree of respect that I would treat any superior officer, male or female. Not one ounce more, not one ounce less.
That’s one of the first things you learn in the military, discipline and respect. If you don’t show the respect, you will learn discipline REAL DAMN FAST!!!!!!!!!
And that is the way it should be, regardless of who the person is. This whole controversy, and the reason it is a controversy, is nothing but a shining example of how people let their sexual hang-ups override their common sense.
Sure you can disrespect some “shameless floozy” that shows her body, but don’t you dare disrespect somebody that tries to shove a damn Bible down peoples throats, or interfere with the pervasive culture that allows it.
I see a lot of her (now deleted) MySpace portfolio images are credited to a kike called Chernoff.
That figures..
Those who think that Michelle Manhart has her rights violated do not understand the Uniformed Code of Military Conduct. It has been long established that the military has a distinct and different role in our society. As a result a Military Code of Conduct was established to differiate the difference between being a civilian and a member of the military.
I anticipate she will be given an Article 133 and/or 134 hearing to determine if she is guility of Conduct Unbecoming of a Person in a Position of Authority. As an NCO and as a drill sergeant, no one can deny that she has a position of authority over recruits under her charge. The display of her nude body in a public way places her in a position whereby she has compromised that authority. She is/will be the subject of ridicule, negative talk and she has drawn attention to herself above and beyond the guidelines of her mission in the Air Force.
While she has the right to show her body in anyway she would choose to do so as a civilian, she does have that right as a member of the military, particularly as an NCO.
Also noting that as an Airman of 13 years standing, why is she still an E-5? I am inclined to believe that she lacks certain qualities (judgment) which would help me to understand the lack of military advancement with her tenure.
We have a volunteer military. No one forces someone to join and as such by joining they agree to abide by a “Military Code of Conduct.”
As a former NCO in the Army during the Vietnam War, I remember that the only right we did not give up, was the right to bitch.
Pornography is rampant throughout military bases. Prostitution thrives around U.S. bases throughout the world. But that is ok! Get all f#cking moral about female nudity.
Typical case of military hypocrisy and its traditional double standards.
I love all these passionate and insane defenses of her. They have nothing to do with protecting any rights she does not have and more to do with certain people demanding the right to see her with her legs spread. Give it up.
“Those who think that Michelle Manhart has her rights violated do not understand the Uniformed Code of Military Conduct.”
I was in the military for 20 year, I think I do have some understanding of the UCMJ.
Nobody has said what part of the UCMJ she violated.
This ‘offense’ certainly does not warrent dismissal from the service. Even if a UCMJ violation has occured (which I don’t conceed) the punishment is way out of proportion to the so called ‘crime’.
With Looks and a Body like that, I would say, “SCREW THE AIR FORCE”!!
So much for how all these Republicans and “Con” servatives “love” and “respect” the military people. Ship ‘em off to war with a pat on the head and strike up the band, encourage kids in schools to send them idiotic little letters that half of them don’t really understand half the words that are in them, thanking them for protecting us, go on the cable news channels and go on about how much we appreciate their sacrifice.
In the meantime, cut taxes that should be raised to fund the damn war, let parents and communities pitch in their own money to buy the supplies they should be furnished, let them forage for scrap metal while they are there to get the extra protection they need for their vehicles, and let Halliburtion charge them twenty dollars for a plate of biscuits and gravies without sausage in case there are Muslims around.
But if you’re a Wiccan you don’t get an appropriate symbol for your headstone if you are killed because that might offend a handful of Christian religious fanatics, who are probably the main ones looking at this womans centerfolds while they are hiding in the latrines jacking off before they go to their pedophile priests to beg for forgiveness for their sins, and then make up for it by bringing her up on charges and encouraging her career to be ended.
Sweet.
Amazing. This discussion goes from a woman posing for Playboy of her own free will and making a bunch of bucks for doing it to blaming Christians. C’mon Patrick. Show me one shred of proof substantiating what you’re saying about Christians causing this problem with the woman or for disallowing Wiccan insignia on headstones.
Damn! Where was you 24 years ago when I joined the Air Force.
Unfortunately, the Air Force will more than likely discharge her under one of their “catch all” Articles, and you may even be lucky enough to let go with a honorable discharge.
The Air Force always preaches, counseling, counseling, counseling. But of course in this situtation, they will probably skip the counseling and proceed right to the harsh punishment.
Michelle, would have received less punishment if she went to the NCO Club, got shit-faced drunk and was arrested for DWI.
I do agree somewhat with Patrick in that the Christian fanatics do seem to try and put their relgious beliefs on the rest of the world. The Christians need to wake up a realize that Christianity is not “The” religion or the only religion in the world. My father happens to be a “Born-again” Christian and I can’t seem to fathom how someone could put so much “Blind Faith” in a religion.
In regards to her rank in terms of years in service. Promotions in the Air Force are basically left up to each individual and at their own pace. There are hard chargers and fast burners so to speak. Michelle’s current rank doesn’t relate to her qualities of judgement. So, she made a judgement call for posing for Playboy and isn’t looking good so far. Should here career suffer due to her making one mistake. A lot of personnel in the Air Force would die for a body like hers and the willingness to flaunt it for the public. I applaud her for pursuing and going after her dreams.
This may be just what the Air Force needs to boost their recruiting for the next year.
Go Girl!
With the way the Royal Air Force is currently being decimated by redundancy, applications for Premature Voluntary Retirement and the inability to recruit high-standard individuals please can we have her when you are finished as she may help in resolving our retention/recruitment problem?
Davy of old England-
Are you saying you have a problem with all Jews or just some of them?
I’m a vet from the war in the 60′s and 70′s and they said we we’re fighting for some peoples we have no idea about who they ares freedom then just like now. Isn’t it funny that the people fighting for strangers rights can’t do nonviolent things without some fool saying some crap about morals. It seems to me that the top milatary leader should making sure that there are no more abugrads (how ever you spell it).
The person above said it right when they said if it’s not in writting then there’s no foul. It would be different if she did a porno movie.
Oh!!! For you who feel she should be punished. The military is very clear on their rules, they are all in writting and if it’s not in writting they have their work cut out with those made up to make Bush and those other socalled moral people. While we are on those passing jugdement. Isn’t it funny that my grandfather always said those doing the most finger pointing and how someone or thing is just follow them around a couple of weeks and most likely they are doing just about the samething say is so bads for others to do. Boy have the Republicans and moral clowns proven him right.
This TI is in the wrong. Accoding to the AFI (Air Force Instructions) the SSGT was not supposed to have another job without first asking the 1st Sergeant and the CO for permission. I doubt the first shirt would give permission for this. She disreagarded the core values of the air force. She showed that she came first and disregarded service before self. She put her integrity on the line as a TI, who should exemplify it.
I served m y country and was deployed for 2 years when i was hurt out of a 3 year deployment. It is not a good sign to have TI’s who should be training the future of my air force posing nude for playboy. How can one demand respect when she does not respect herself or the service she took an oath too.
Chris Ryan
SSGT, USAF Retired
22nd Special Tactics Squadron
I hate to disrespect a SF troop because I know what you guys have to go through for training and the tough life you have to lead during your career.
But, I’m sorry to say you sound like a douche. Just like everyone else who says “MY Air Force”. I was active duty for eight years, and you would have never caught me saying “MY Air Force”. The Air Force belongs to the American people. The Air Force, or other military branches, are not exclusive clubs run for the sole benefit of their members. I don’t know how the whole expression “MY Air Force” got started, but the idiot who did deserves a court martial long before SSgt Manhart.
Right wrong or otherwise… when you enlist in our military you give up any freedoms you have as an american. The government owns you and you either play their rules or you’re out of the game. If you don’t like the rules DON’T JOIN! and in my humble opinion playboy used her for publicity. She is not that pretty and her sub pectoral implants are too far apart and hard. She was a victim, but she was victimized by her own choice. Why would she throw away 13 years for a few bucks and 15 minutes of fame? Stupidity at it’s finest.
All this about how she is so low grade in rank after so many years proving she is not of high quality is the biggest damn joke I have seen in quite some time. From what I’ve seen, the ability to rise in the military is based on sheer stupidity. That’s because people that are A1 Ass Kissers Extraodinaire tend to be actually pretty stupid people.
Just look at the level of incompetence with which the Iraq war has been run, and you’ll see all you need to know. And Afghanistan is quickly going the same route.
For example, all these really great grade A Arabic translators that the military has, let’s all give them a hand for having the “military intelligence” to understand how valuable people like this might be when it comes to fighting a war against global Islamic fascism.
Errrrr-Whoops! I almost forgot. As of now, they have very, very few qualified Arabic translators left in the military, they had to get rid of most of them-
BECAUSE THEY WERE GAY!!!!!!
Hey, Dianne, what was that you was asking me? Now, I just wonder what group of people is so hung up about homosexuality that they would make sure homosexuals were discharged, even those that PERFORMED A VITAL SERVICE THAT IS OF THE UTMOST IMPORTANCE DURING THIS TIME???
Yeah, the military top brass is a real bunch of geniuses. I guess since George “The Messiah” Bush is commander-in-chief especially, since he gets his instructions from the Almighty, I guess they both must be just alike, huh? They both work in mysterious ways, far beyond the simple comprehension of us mere mortals.
But I tell you what, I will repent of my sins and try to have more faith. So you bring that shameless Playboy posing hussy over to me, and I promise you, I will be the first person to bash her head in with the biggest ol’ rock I can find.
She knew but what the hell, our former commander in chief received oral sex in his office and got away with it, what a double standard, we need to lighten up, just re-assign her, and LOR, and move on.
SSGT Chris Ryan, I would like to know what Air Force you retired from. It’s surely not the same one I’m currently serving in and have been for over 20 years. I won’t bore the readers of this forum with my duty history and countless excursions behind ememy lines.
Service Before Self in MY Air Force is a joke. I see very few, except for the high ranking General Officers, Colonels and a handful of other officer and enlisted personnel who actually take the “Service Before Self” to heart.
The majority of enlisted and officer personnel currently serving today are more concerned about their advancement in the promotion process and their bottom line.
This not all their fault though, since the Air Force has placed so much emphasis on having higher and higher levels of education, The “Whole Person”Concept and ensuring breath of experience.
This basically means everyone is running around doing everything, but their primary job to try and get their records looking good for the next promotion board. They may only be working in a job for a very short time, usually one year or so trying to get a specific job recorded in their records before moving on and screwing up another workcenter or office.
As far as asking the CO or First Sergeant, I disagree, since this photo shoot wasn’t really considered a job and more than likely was done while she was on leave, which if this was the case, then it would nobody’s damn business.
As long as she didn’t ingest any illegal substances, and didn’t test positive on a drug test, I don’t see the big deal over her posing. If half of the Air Force kept in shape like Michelle at age 30, then we would be a stronger Air Force.
I’m very proud to have Michelle on my team and would definetly sign the papers tomorrow if I were just enlisting in the Air Force .
A promotion is well deserved for this SSgt!
this is funny. This lady is/was my boyfriend’s instructor at lackland. he told me about this before i read it in the news today. I can’t wait until he calls me tonite, so i can tell him how far this has gotten. He didn’t think it would get that far…
For all the “naysayers” out there: Sometimes, FREEDOM can suck!
Power to her, she was my brotherflights T.I. I always wondered what she would look like naked and now i get to see.
IT’S CRAP!!!!!! SHE SHOULD NO LONGER BE ABLE TO RETAIN ANY RANK WITHIN ANY US ARMED FORCES BRANCH. PUNISHMENT SHOULD BE; REMOVAL FROM THE ARMED FORCES UNDER A DIS-HONORABLE DISCHARGE, A GARNISH OF WAGES EARNED FROM THE GOVERNMENT DURING THE PAY PERIOD OF THE SHOOT, OR IN THE EXACT AMOUNT RECEIVED FOR THE SHOOT. THERE SHOULD BE NO WAY THAT SHE RECEIVES ANY PROFFIT FOR THIS DISGRACE OF THE MILITARY UNIFORM, AND DISRESPECT FOR THE USAF CORE VALUES. IS IT INTEGRITY SHE WAS TRYING TO SHOW? I DON’T THINK SO, AND YOU CAN FORGET ABOUT SERVICE BEFORE SELF. EXCELLENCE IN ALL WE DO…….HELL NO. SHE SEEMS TO BE LACKING OF ALL THE CRITERIA SHE PROBABLY SO STERNLY DRILLS INTO TRAINEE’ S HEADS.
AF SSG…OUT
As far as this EX-airman is concerned, ” MORE POWER TO HER” take your core values and stuff them! Service before self only exist in the Air Force for losers who follow other loser in a blind and stupid manner, while making sure their noses stay brown.
Michelle Manhart should be commended for having the guts to stand up to a bunch of hipocrits .
well I voted for Clinton and I belieive he did a real good job, and I’d vote for him again if he could run again regardless of the so call oral sex thing…what someone does on their own time its theirs…as long as they are doing a good job in their profession the hell with the rest…I know a lot of people in high places that have done worse and are in the closet…If she was a world renowned sugen and you needed an operation to save your life you would die right? come on people get real..wish i could talk to her in person:-) at least an email:-)
You give up a lot of things when you work in any government or private job, too. Moral turpitude clauses are fairly common. I would be surprised if she is the first airman kicked out for this type of behavior. There have been at least three female cops who posed for Playboy over the years, and lost their jobs. They, and Manhart, would have to be mentally deficient not to know that they would be booted.
Hey Uncle John, don’t you know you should have more integrity than to allow a woman that poses for Playboy to operate on your brains? There’s no telling what kind of vile disgusting devils might get in there through the pores of her skin or just by her breathing on you while your head is cut open.
That’s why I feel sorry for those poor airmen that have been trained by this shameless Playboy posing hussy. Sure, they might be top notch at the jobs she trains them for, but what good is that if this woman is allowed to cause them to lust after her and lose their souls? If this dastardly evil is allowed to continue, young American boys throughout the nation might become deluded into thinking that sex is fun, normal, and natural-not the evil, vile sin that all good “moral” people know that it is.
After all, anybody with any sense of “morality” knows the human body is a sickening, disgusting, filthy thing, and should never be allowed to be seen in it’s entirety.
.
Anonymous above is absolutely correct. Most large companies and most government jobs have standards of conduct for which employees can be dismissed even if the objectionable conduct is committed off the job. This young woman cannot be that stupid that she did not know she faced consequences for her very public conduct.
For those of you who are rallying behind her right to do whatever on her own time, what if she were your son’s high school teacher?
I supposed she has her standards and even with such a privilidged position as a Training Instructor(Guess they don’t have Drill Sergeants or Drill Instructors in the Chair Force), her standards are really low. Discipline is the first thing instilled in you as a service member in any of the branches of service. Obviously this Air Force Staff Sergeant does not have any. I don’t exactly agree with a harsh punishment but I do believe she should be punished at least take her out of sight of new recruits. She has been in the service for 13 years if she had been in the service for less than a year an have the lowest rank possible in the Air Force then I would understand her lack of judgement but common in 13 years she should know the right from the wrong. She should of waited till she got out the service to do this but then again I don’t think playboy would of looked her way then. Those of you that praise what she did have not spent a day in the boots of a Soldier, Marine, Seaman or Airman.
Sean Oldman, now I agree with alot of what you say about most people lacking service before self and the rest of the core values. But really, why do they lack them? Its because of folks like this SSgt TI that people don’t have them. Its like the butterfly effect. You can’t defend bad behavior by pointing out more bad behavior. Having integrity is all about doing whats right, no matter what. As for the promotion system. I tend to agree with most of what you said. However, again, its like that because people don’t practice the core values really. It becomes a nice catch phrase and make really nice posters on the wall, but it is something different to actually practice it. You are mistaken in your idea that this is not a second job/off-duty employment. Read your instructions again, it does not matter what your status is, on-leave etc. That is why there is a place on the EPR that rates for off-duty conduct.
I am not a blogger by any stretch of the imagination. But when I read this, I just had to respond. I did think it was funny how the “Far” left liberals like to make every arguement into a fight against Christianity or anything that is traditional American values. Someone said that they probably wouldn’t be defending her if she had done drugs or underage drinking. I disagree, the “Far Left” liberals will defend anything that requires them to have to have some personal restraint. They want to be allowed to do whatever, whenever and call it freedom. They constantly preach tolerance, but they are the most intolerate if you are Christian and have moral values. But then again, they are smarter than everyone else, so I guess they are right.
If you are not in the military, or have never served, you have no right to even weight in on this arguement because you have no stake in the outcome.
I would say that what she does on her own damn time is her own damn business. But of course, I guess that would be kind of disheartening to all those people who want to turn the country into a theocracy by way of corporations and big business threatening their livelihoods, and being allowed to get away with doing so. How so very damn convenient.
So just what the hell is the difference between living under a political dictatorship and allowing businesses to dictate how people live their private lives off the job? Not a hell of a lot of difference so far as I can tell.
It shouldn’t be allowed anywhere, including in the military. If I want to live under those kinds of conditions I’ll convert to Islam and move to Mecca. At least they ain’t goddam hypocrits about it.
Oh yeah, and by the way. I am stationed at lackland, instruct Airmen just like she does. I also know this lady and can tell you that she knew exactly what she was doing, was told not to do it and did it anyways.
Hey Mr Staff Sergeant, guess what? As long as the military runs off of taxpayers dollars, YES WE DO HAVE A RIGHT TO WEIGH IN ON HOW IT’S RUN!!!!!!
To begin with we only have your word you are who you say you are, and as far as what you were told about how she was told not to pose for Playboy and did it anyway, how the hell do you know? Were you there? Somehow, I doubt it.
And by the way, I am not a “far leftist” by any stretch of the imagination, and yes I do believe in freedom and responsibility. That means as long as you don’t hurt or interfere with anybody else and their rights, you should be allowed to live your life as you see fit, without somebody trying to ram their religion down your throat, or by threatening your livelihood, or any other coercive tactic. What the hell is “far leftist” about that?
A “good Christian” will not be affected by this womans private life because they aren’t likely to be thumbing through Playboy to begin with. If they do, they have lost their right to complain.
It’s like that old joke about the man calling the police and complaining about the woman showing her naked body through her windows and when the cop says he can’t see anything the guy says, “well, stand on this chair”.
To this kind of person, anybody that doesn’t believe in the damn Bible or doesn’t think people should have to be forced to live by it’s bronze age rules or doesn’t believe the government or the military should kowtow to Christian conservatives is some kind of radical, is that your point?
Actually you don’t have a damn point. And if you are in the Air Force and you found yourself in a situation where your life depended on this womans help, I somehow doubt you would worry about her “morals”, which are irrelevant to how she does her job. That’s my point. That and the fact that the reason I’m pointing to Christians is because that is the culture that has engendered this kind of thinking. Let shit like this get stirred long enough, once you wade through the stink, you generally find a Bible thumper at the root of the problem.
Jesus, Kelley, can you occasionally pretend to be sane? No? Didn’t think so. lol!
She should be place in the “Panty Guard of the Air Force” away from the active duty airmen and air women. Any of those wanting to repeat the conduct will be placed there automatically. That is spelled out in the contract! Now the Air Force can leverage the same propaganda to its benefit!!
As a former US Marine and US Army soldier. I can say who the hell cares if this woman poses for playboy or any other smut. The only people bitching are the very people who would never stand a chance with a woman of this caliber. That is what this whole thing is about. A group of ugly fat old women and up tight old men who know they will never stand a shot of seeing a woman such as this in person. It is about envy and hate. They all want her to pay for being beautiful. They are unhappy with their own self’s and need to take it out on the more beautiful people of the world. Catch a clue you miserable old crabs!!!
Rock on Michelle Manhart…. Well done…. Oh and Anyone who doesn’t like what i have to say…. A wise man told me once. If you dont like what i have to say, GO TO HELL
why is there a double standard??
the military is shafting michelle manhart for posing in playboy, yet they…in their own right organize T&A trips for scantily clad Dallas Cheerleaders…or WWE Divas….to ”Entertain” the troops
leave this beautiful woman alone……she wasn’t afraid to show what she’s got……hoo ra..
and serve our country as a patriot
This is the best way to get people to join the military. Somebody had a good idea for recruiting
She certainly should have known that the Air Force wou ld discipline her for this. I wouldn’t be so hard on her in terms of whether or not she’s the ‘brightest bulb in the pack’ however if you are looking at her paygrade versus Time-in-Service.
The Air Force has never been particularly noted for rapid promotions, the best figure I can find for making E6 in the Air Force was a note that indicated it took 12.9 years on average to make it. This was in 2001. Figure that with force level reductions going on in the AF and the Navy, promotions are even harder to come by. She may have just decided to go out with a bonus from Playboy, figuring that Uncle Sam was unlikely to promote her anyway.
To the air force MSgt. Don’t preach the Core Values bullshit to me. As soon as I see the entire air force living it, then and only then, will I jump on board.
And the comment: Folks like the SSgt TI? We need more folks like the SSgt TI in our air force. At least she takes pride in her body and her duties. Not like a lot of personnel currently serving, who seem to find and hide behind loopholes in the new fitness regulation to avoid the one and only annual fitness test. The air force is so weak compared to the army and marines when it comes to fitness. It’s a wonder we can even support the ongoing war efforts.
And the “having integrity†bit. You don’t think she’s got integrity. Sure, she was thinking about herself, when posing and trying to make a little extra money on the side. If our air force promotion system actually promoted the deserving individuals who actually do the work and not the mindless F***s who seem to fill all squares by doing the volunteering bullshit and filling all the education blocks, then maybe airman wouldn’t haven’t to look for other means to provide for their families. She was apparently hand selected for the job of TI before she was relieved of her duties, so I think she probably has quite a bit of integrity.
I don’t see where you come up with the “bad behavior†bit for her actions. Sure, most of us will probably never know if she was ordered not to pose for the layout, but lets give it the benefit of the doubt that no one knew about her posing for Playboy. Just because you and a lot of others probably don’t agree with posing for a porno (soft) magazine like Playboy, should we pose our beliefs on the rest of society. I don’t think so.
Should she have received permission before posing? I’m not so sure. I’ve always considered off-duty employment as a recurring event (daily, weekly, monthly, etc.) and not a one-time payment for services. I mean, if that’s the case, then anytime I played the lottery (and won), or if I played bingo (and won) or anything else you could think of, then I guess I would be in violation of the air force rules, regulations or instructions for off-duty employment.
Anyhow, everyone breaks a rule every now and then. Are you telling me, you’ve never done a rolling stop at a stop sign, or never went over the speed limit? Give me a Break!
Of course, the way the AFIs are written, you could probably interpret them many different ways and her punishment will probably be left up to her current commander. Of course, since this is a highly publicized case, her commander’s action will more than likely be influenced or dictated to by someone higher up the chain-of- command.
There is a block on her performance report for for off-duty conduct and if her supervisor or rater feels this is was in violation of an order and is deserving of a mark down, then do it and any other punishment deemed necessary.
If no order was not given, consider this a one-time incident and not mark her down in this area and give her the highest overall mark she deserves and, hopefully, she will be promoted the next testing cycle. Afterall, she was selected for this specialized duty during a records review and letter from her previous commander.
Again, she’s an adult, and shouldn’t have to get permission from her supervisor, first sergeant or commander to perform her off-duty activities no matter how morale or immoral you may believe, as long no law was broken. She could be in Iraq next week or next month. Will she need permission to shoot and kill the enemy?
You need to GROW UP and starts living your life and not let the air force dictate you’re every living moment. Thank God you are enlisted and hopefully far along enough in your career that you will never be commissioned and command someday. You fit right in with the “one-strike” your “out” air force.
Thankfully, my air force career is almost over and I won’t put up with mentality of mindless robots of the air force like you much longer.
With over 2 decades of military service under my belt and currently serving YOUR air force, but not so proudly.
What do you think? In a few years she will be able to run: “Michelle Manhart for Presidentâ€
Look people it’s simple. She knows the rules, we all do and she teaches them to trainees every 7 weeks. She knows the core values, and that we all are representatives of the Air Force and DOD and the U.S. wherever we serve. She chose to break the rules, she must have known that she would loose her job. I don’t think she cares one bit. You certainly havnt heard her complaining about all this publicity. She can’t blame this on a momentary lapse in judgment either. I went on her myspace page before it was shut down. she was counting down the weeks till her pictorial. She’s a big girl and made a decision. She chose to end her career. She is saying she’s defending her rights…. BS she knows we are citizens, but not civilians. We accept the loss of some rights when we take the oath to serve. She knew this was coming, she isn’t suprised at any of this. She does look hot hitting the weights in the pictorial though.
Another brainwashed SSGT. Who said anything about ending a career? She might receive some punishment, but not career ending. A reassignment to her previous career field, maybe cross-training, depending on her career field status as far a manning and other requirmeents.
I don’t recall losing any rights when I enlisted, just minor adjustments.
People, get a life. This shouldn’t be such a big deal. Doesn’t the PX/BX still sell Playboy at their newstands?
The enlisted seem to be very hard on their own and if this was an officer, you wouldn’t hear nearly the negative response. Give the lady a chance.
Is it just me or do all three of the pics above look like a different person?
And, look at the face, guys … lol
Yes, quite a bit of diferrence, but the top one is probably close to what she looks like everday, with a little touch up. The second photo is more of a Glamour shot and the last picture, I belive is when she was at the Playboy shoot, probably had her own makeup person for that shot.
Bunch of MORONS! Get off your better than everyone and professional High Chair attitude. What’s becoming our Armed Forces, especially our air force. You bunch of weak asses. It’s a good thing you don’t have to fight in a real world without technology, I would pity our country if you did. You wouldn’t think anything if a playboy pinup tours one of the USO shows. Such Hypocrites! You should be proud to have her on the air force team. Col Sanders (RET Marine)
Oh, go fry some chicken! It’s not a morality issue but one of whether she compromised her ability to lead and command authority. There is also the issue of not getting permission, which would have undoubtedly been denied, for outside employment. Again, this is not the first time this has happend and it won’t be the last. But in every instance the party was dismissed from the job.
I guess if she was a one star (general) or above posing in 50+ she would get off scott-free just like the generals who were in the religous video in uniform.
You want some chicken you little whimp. She’s an NCO and apparently she was leading fine before someone got scared and thought it might interfere with their career progression. Who really cares if she got the permission or not. Do you have to ask your Mommy everytime you do something. You think I asked one time in my career when I worked outside my job. As long as I reported to work and violated no ethics, everything was fine. The military has regressed so far, it’s amazing we can still fight a war. But, look we’ve been in Iraq for a few years and haven’t made much of a difference if we are not losing the battle. The US will surely lose it’s abilities to lose wars with the bunch of softies we have now. The Air Force needs to relize not all wars can be won with airpower alone and get back to the basics of real war fighting and quit being scared of offending someone or fearing for their promotion.
Does anyone know how I can get in contact with Michelle. I think it would be awesome to have her do a signing at our base exchange. I sure I could work out the details of having her transportation and billeting paid for by our command. I mean this would be a great moral booster for the guys and some of the gals might look at her for inspiration in their careers.
After all, the cost shouldn’t be that much and besides, the generals officers get to fly their dependents around all over the world free of charge at government expense, so I don’t see how flying one little TSgt to my base should cost that much. Let me know what you think or if you can think of any other good ideas.
Why doesn’t it suprise me that you aren’t smart enough to figure it out on your own. lol!
First, let me say that I am sure she is going to go to NJP for this and probably should. However whoever wrote that she has no right to participate in the freedoms that she is supposed to be defending -that statement is wildly off the mark. I’ve heard it over and over again and I have never agreed with it. I’m tired of hearing that “you give up your freedoms” when you join the military. No you don’t.
The freedoms still exist-but the concequences for choosing to exercise them are slightly higher. However, it also allows for the fact that if you exercise those freedoms with discretion…..then you can.
The Constitution applies to everyone.
Ghostrider, do you read? Go ahead Mav, what’s up? Did you see that HOTT SSgt that posed for Playboy? No Mav, tell me more! She’s a TI at Lackland and word on the street is that she’s doing it with the slick sleeves! Damn Mav, let’s go down for a closer look! Lackland approach, this is 116969, Call Sign Maverick…”requesting a fly over”? Lackland Approach: “That’s a negative Maverick”. 116969, Maverick requesting flyover of BMTS 3701, over. Negative Maverick, BMTS 3701 is in the middle of a photo shoot, over. Copy that Lackland Approach, Maverick out!
Check the GAL for her email address. Maverick out!
Wow, what diversity of comments, isn’t great to live in a country where you can voice your opinion without repercussions. Wonder who made that happen???
It boggles my mind to think that such a minor detail as a woman posing for Playboy magazine would compromise her ability to lead and command respect. That’s one reason I think half of these people that mouth off here saying crap like that and claiming they are in the military are full of crap.
The military is all about discipline and respect. You don’t casually decide who you are going to obey and respect when you sign on the dotted line. If somebody is in a position of authority over you, you act accordingly, or you are going to face serious repercussions.
If the men and women enlisted personnel of our military are as weak minded as some of you people seem to think they are, this country is in VERY serious trouble.
To the idiots saying that she isn’t wrong for what she did have no idea what the military code of conduct represents. Shut your mouth before you do some research of have some knowledge on the topic. If you haven’t served in the military, which I am currently doing. in the United States Air Force, or have at least read up on the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) please do not leave your idiotic leftist comments.
I’ve read alot of talk about morality and freedom and some good points have been made on both sides. Integrity is at issue here. AF Core values are just words on a piece of paper without personal intergity to put them into action. Though I’m morally opposed to the pics, the issue is not one of morality but practicality. As a TI, intergrity needs to be instilled by example. The schoolhouse (Lackland) is the primary place where trainees are instilled with military virtue. When a leader, an influential TI, does this it undermines her leadership ability and yes… moral force. It diverts attention from the primary focus, the mission if you will. All who serve in any branch willingly surrender personal rights to guarantee the rights of our countrymen. The military is not a democracy, nor a republic, it’s a dictatorship. In order to function it has to be. Any woman who has served for as long as she has, knew it was wrong. She simply decided to roll the dice and take her chances with the military justice system. I, as a military member, do not have the right to use my military uniform for personal ambitions. If I can’t attend political rallies in uniform because of how it is perceived, how can it possibly be OK to treat the uniform disrepectfully by posing for Playboy(in spite of how it’s perceived). It’s not a moral issue but rather one of practicality.
One more practical point. By the definition of some above, all people who say one thing and do another are hypocrites. By nature, people are imperfect. Who can say they haven’t said one thing and done another in some area of their life? The answer is obvious. In any case, the standard they aspire to is not invaildated simply because the don’t live up to it sometimes. If anything, the standard is reinforced.
Another order from another military claimant, this one Ryan, ordering all of us “leftists” to shut up. Well,Ryan, I am not in the military, never have been, never will be, so I guess I don’t have to obey your orders, general. I’ll leave whatever comments I want anywhere I want to leave them, be they leftist, rightest, middle of the roadest, or any other est you care to name. If you have a problem with my giving my opinion maybe you are a hell of a lot less qualified to serve in the military than Michelle is. In fact, I know she is more qualified, and besides, she is a hell of a lot easier on the eyes than your ignorant comments.
If I was in the military, and some woman came to my aid in the middle of a battle and I knew my life depended on her, I know the last thing I would say to her is, ” you haven’t ever posed for Playboy now, have you?” And neither would you. All you would care about is whether she could do her job, whatever that was. And don’t bother to tell me any different, because we both know I’m right.
This nutty crap is the same cock and bull bullshit that was started when the military was integrated, the very same kind of clowns were going on and moaning and wringing their hands about “oh this is going to be terrible for morale, oh this will cause a breakdown in discipline, oh this will be the end of our armed forces superiority.”
And the same thing when women were taken in. Now that that’s settled, now it’s the gays. It’s always something with you people, now it’s some woman posing for Playboy.
Well, stop worrying. A woman that poses for Playboy wants a real man, with a great big long’un, not a teeny weeny peeny like most of you guys probably have, so she’ll probably end up with one of those big black studs all you kinds of people used to worry so much about and you won’t have to worry about “measuring up” if she ends up sticking around.
Patrick Kelley did you ever get beat up in school?? I know you were probably the third trenchcoat mafia member in columbine that was late to the shoot-out and now your leftist as is here wasting internet space. Get a life and go to your local recruitment office don’t matter what service and make something of yourself.
First off, this isn’t an integrity issue. She hasn’t lied to anyone.
Until very recent times every fighter squadron had a ‘pnenudrallics library’, aks porn collection.
Many of todays General Officers are what are called ‘Barstoolers’, and as Generals they are the living examples of ‘core values’. And by Barstooler standards, she’s a girl scout.
So please spare me all this holy-joe moralizing.
The only ‘rule’ I can think of that she might have broken was giving an interview without telling PA. A letter of counseling would be the approriate punishement.
Jim,
Intergity isn’t just about lying. And yes, pretty much every flying squadron had “hydraulic” flicks. What every squadron didn’t have was hydraulic flicks of squadron members (or service members they knew about). It wasn’t so very long ago when you could get in trouble for wearing BDU pants hunting. How much more over a firebrand subject like this.
As far as the “Barstoolers” go, who says a General embodies “core values”? I know several generals who did anything but.
Moral force does not mean pronouncing judgement on the act itself, simply the ability of recruits to take her seriously. Certainly she’s compromised her position to effectively do her job.
Again, Core Values are just words, but leadership and integrity are not. I’d feel the same way about anything that gives rise to these kind of problems. I’m not being a prude, simply practical. There is no way any male recruit would at her in the same way as before she posed. She made a concious choice to compromise her position (and uniform) for personal gain. Maybe she’ll make general, but that doesn’t make it right
I was really surprised that US Army has such wonderful instructors!!!
Great woman and great body!
Looks like she can kill twice as much, in scrimmage as well as in sex appeal
As for the military code, I believe that in the difficult turmoil time such person really can act as a real Soldier.
I don’t see any value in hypocritical fat bints unable to run 100 yards without stifling from want of air.
I want to army ALREADY!
More such women and more such pictures.
You, people, just crazy and mix chirch yard with military adventures
This Patrick Kelley fella seems to be a very irritated individual. What is it that has him so upset? Maybe it’s the fact that he knows he will never have the guts to come in the military and actually defend the freedom he enjoys, one of which is the freedom of speech to post in this blog. I actually enjoy reading his comments because it gives me an idea of how warped people’s brains are nowadays. You are somewhat of an angry smurf hiding behind your computer screen and typing your propaganda. Grow up and get a life! You are a pathetic soul searching for true peace and happiness. Respond to this however you would like but I GUARANTEE you are a completely miserable individual and can’t stand looking at yourself in the mirror. You go around seeing the bad in everything as opposed to finding something remotely positive about your sad situation. Again, I know you will post and say that you are comfortable with your miserable existence but you and I both KNOW you hate yourself and the only way you get by is by hanging out with your keyboard and mouse all day and searching for places to blog on the net.
That must be an extremely sad state to live in. Please save the people on this blog the headache of reading your post and reply directly to me at [email protected].
Now on to the issue at hand. First things first…her name is not Manhart, it’s Crossmanhart. How do I know? I worked with side by side with her for 1.5 years. I was a Military Training Instructor from 02-06. All along I knew she was capable of something like this. Why? Because of how she carried herself and the way in which she carried out her job. She used to be in the 323rd TRS and then PCA’d (that’s military for changed jobs) to the TRSS. When she arrived in the TRSS I instantly knew she would be a problem. She was a mediocre MTI at best! The people in the other post have nailed it. The fact that she would deliberately pose for a filthy magazine using the military as a means of publicity is absolutely unacceptable. When we take an oath we pledge to obey all orders. Granted she probably was not given a direct order not to pose for this magazine but we are told specifically that in the military we are prohibited from taking part in anything that brings the military discredit. And this qualifies. To answer your ridiculous notion that I or any other military member would not ask about her off duty activities should we go to combat…that is a ludicrous example because that is a pie in the sky what if. A huge what if. I have a what if for you, ready? What if you would stop hiding behind your computer and join the military to fight for the country you live in and fight for the freedoms you enjoy? My point exactly…it would never happen.
So, my uninformed friend, the fact that SSgt Crossmanhart is a disgrace to the Air Force and the MTI corps is something you would never be able to understand or comprehend so I will not waste my time letting you know what my beloved Air Force stand for. You don’t know what if feels like to put this uniform on and take part in a profession of arms that is founded on the non-negotiable, unwavering cornerstones of integrity and service before self. SSgt Crossmanhart has undoubtedly put herself before her service thus bringing discredit upon herself and the United States Air Force.
You think I am so lonely for companionship I’m going to contact you privately? What the hell for? I don’t spend all my time on the computer, though I spend some time on it, yeah, so what? At least I have a decent internet service provider, as opposed to some worthless piece of shit like Juno.
As for why I’m so pissed off about this issue, it always pisses me off when people don’t learn from history. Every time you wingnuts bitch about somebody else being in the military, you are proven wrong time and again.
When black people were first integrated in with whites, the exact same kind of people as you bitched, and were proven wrong. When women were admitted, you people bitched, and you were proven wrong yet again. Now it’s gays, and I have no doubt in my mind you will eventually be proven wrong yet again.
So why should I take you people seriously when you talk this crap about how she is not qualified to lead or to be an instructor. I am just saying politely that I think you are all full of crap. And that furthermore, you seem to be encouraging enlisted people in the military to disrespect her. That means that if you are in the military, you are unfit to be in there and should be discharged your own damn self.
I have no doubt in my mind that if you were in the military fifty years ago you would all be slamming Truman for allowing those “jiggaboos” to serve alongside good, decent white boys, and would probably go out of your way to insist that black recruits do not belong there.
You are all cut from the same cloth. I know who I am and what I am about, I’m just like anybody else, I have my good and bad points. I can look myself in the mirror and see myself clearly, warts and all, the good, the bad, and the ugly, and I am under no ilussions as to any of it.
So you can go screw yourself.
Oh, give it up, Kelley. You’re a fkn wiccan, for crissakes. Only teenage girls who watch to much Buffy are wiccans.
well i can see everyone is so passionate about the state of affairs of our freedoms. yet only 1% of americans actually join the military. From my experience you don’t get to be a TI from being a dumbass. Also on the enlisted side of the air force you don’t get promoted by kissin ass; you have to test to get higher rank. She knew what she was doing. Look at all the free publicty both her and Playboy are gettin. and to all you old bitter SNCO’s And NCO’s if you think that the air force sucks so much get the piss out. Especially if you’ve been in over 20 yrs. you know you can leave any time you want. also every airman in Basic knows that when you join you give up alot of your civilian rights. its just part of the price you pay to defend everybody else’s. Patrick Kelley who ever you are you’re a dumbass. GOD BLESS AMERICAN and all the idoits who live here.
Just a little in-the-service wisdom to impart:
In the Air Force, almost ALL TIs are E-5s (Ssgt)
In the Air Force, It is not uncommon for people to retire at E-5 because it is so damn difficult to get promoted in the Air Force for a number of reasons.
OK I got it out.
She should be, in my opinion, removed from her TI post. Nothing too harsh. It is quite obvious that she should, at the absolute least, not be training zoomies. If what TSgt said is true then she is exactly the kind of person Playboy would go out to snap shots of – progressive minded, hot-bodied (hopefully)… you know the kind.
Well, I may be a dumbass but my point is, while sure I understand that military people do agree to give up some of their civilian freedoms, and I appreciate that fact, they shouldn’t have to give up freedoms that don’t have diddly squat to do with their military careers, and this would be a prime example of that.
I may be a dumbass, but so far nobody here has offered the slightest refutation of any of my main points. Just sorry ass weak excuses about how since she posed for Playboy she somehow has lost the ability to be an instructor because she will not command respect.
Talk about magical thinking. She is the same person with the same qualifications as she was before she posed for Playboy, and if somebody shows her disrespect, he or she should be disciplined as they would be for showing disrespect for any other superior officer or for that matter any instructor or fellow soldier.
I was also pointing out that most people in the military, in my honest opinion, are above that kind of crap. They are TRAINED TO BE ABOVE THAT KIND OF CRAP.
I have more respect for the enlisted personnel of our armed forces than half of you people that claim you yourself are military, because I THINK THEY ARE BETTER PEOPLE ON AVERAGE THAN YOU THINK THEY ARE.
So if I’m a dumbass, what does that make you?
As for the last Anonymous poster, no I am technically not a “fkn wiccan”, which is a religion by the way that contains people of all ages and from all walks of life, including lawyers and other high salaried professionals as well as common laborers and “teenagers that watch too much Buffy”, though my religion is pagan that draws heavily on Wicca. But what the hell does that have to do with this issue anyway?
Just more input from somebody that thinks everybody ought to think a certain way or their opinion doesn’t count, I guess. Sort of like those people that used to think blacks and women don’t belong in the military,in fact the exact same kind as that, and who are so determined this woman doesn’t belong. Wrong as usual, but at least you people can brag that you’re batting a thousand, not that that’s anything to brag about.
Patrick, you are extremely thickheaded. Please read carefully…
To clarify, I served along side of SSgt Crossmanhart for 1.5 years. Again, we all saw this coming. I trained over 15 flights. A flight consists of roughly 50 airman each. Do the math, you seem to be somewhat intelligent. That’s 750 airman. SSgt Crossmanhart pushed about 4 flights totaling about 200 airman. The question begs to be asked why did she push so few flights. Let me give you the answer. Her section supervisor which is normally a MSgt (E-7) and a blue rope which is the top 10% of Instructors (which I received my blue rope first time by the way) didn’t think she was capable of pushing flights. As a matter of fact we had a blue rope ball in 2004 at the Fireman’s hall in San Antonio TX off of I-10 and the only people allowed to attend were of course blue ropes. Except for the Instructors that wanted to volunteer for setup, teardown and serving drinks. This was a formal type event and SSgt Crossmanhart volunteered to serve drinks. So, while everyone is showing up in their Sunday’s best SSgt Crossmanhart shows up wearing skin tight pants and a midrift shirt showing all of her assets. Keep in mind this is an event that our Group Commander (a full bird Colonel) was hosting. Her actions then were totally unacceptable and she was told to find something else to wear or to leave.
This and many more things including incidents on duty led all of us Military Training Instructors to believe that she was capable of something like this. Actually we thought she would get caught sleeping with a trainee (which has happened before).
So instead of pushing flights because of her incompetence she was given duties like CQ (charge of quarters), chow hall monitor, among other things. But her section supervisor took the privilege of pushing flights away from her long before this recent stunt.
Like all jobs you have your bottom, middle and top tier type of Instructors. She was always floating between bottom and lower bottom. As a matter of fact when this incident happened she wasn’t training trainees on the “street” (that’s TI talk for pushing flights) she was transferred to the training support squadron which takes care of most of the administrative types of things. There are two reasons why someone goes to the training support squadron as a TI. Either they are tired of pushing flights and want more time with their family and more steady hours or they are forced to go by their leadership for poor job performance. I’ll let you guess which category she fell in…trust me, I witnessed the events that led to her being transferred.
So, please don’t come on this post with you lame examples citing integration among other ridiculous examples that have nothing to do with SSgt Crossmanhart. She is responsible for her own actions. By the way I’m black so your racial propaganda doesn’t fly. And my favorite boss in the miltary was a female colonel who graduated from the Academy. So find someone else to dump that crap on.
To get down to brass tacks and answer your question, you posted:
“I may be a dumba$$, but so far nobody here has offered the slightest refutation of any of my main points. Just sorry a$$ weak excuses about how since she posed for Playboy she somehow has lost the ability to be an instructor because she will not command respect”.
To cite my beloved MTI creed which I took for the first time in Sep ’02 after a grueling 14 week training program:
THE TRAINING INSTRUCTOR HAT THAT I WEAR IS A
SYMBOL OF HONOR, INTEGRITY, AND EXCELLENCE IN
MILITARY DEPORTMENT. MY JOB IS ONE OF THE MOST
IMPORTANT IN THE AIR FORCE AND I WILL SPARE NO
EFFORT TO PROPERLY PREPARE YOUNG MEN AND
WOMEN FOR MILITARY DUTY
I AM DEDICATED TO THE PRINCIPLES OF FAIRNESS, AND
HONESTY IN MY DEALINGS WITH THOSE ENTRUSTED TO
MY CHARGE. I AM PLEDGE TO STRIVE FOR PERFECTION
AND TO REJECT MEDIOCRITY BOTH IN MY OWN PERSONAL
BEHAVIOR AND IN THE PERFORMANCE OF THOSE FOR
WHOM I AM RESPONSIBLE.
I AM AN AIR FORCE MILITARY TRAINING INSTRUCTOR!!!
I focus on the last line of my creed. To reject mediocrity in my own personal behavior. Her behavior has brought a negative light on the Air Force…you may not think so but I wonder what Kim Jong Il thinks about this who by the way is currently 30 miles north of me as I serve in South Korea. I wonder if he thinks that our military is more focused on extracurricular charades than training our warriors (that was just a little free food for thought for ya). She has completely disgraced the tradition that we as TI’s are called to uphold. We belong to the Air Force. My free time is not my free time. I can be recalled at the drop of a hat. I can be on leave enjoying sunny Florida and can be called back to support the mission. She has violated a code of ethics that we adhere to. Our Joint Ethics Regulation 5500.7 as well as our Manual for Courtmarshall strictly and expressly prohibit military personnel from taking part in or posing for any photograph in which the military member is indecently presented. There’s your refutation.
The Air Force is a joke to the entire country. Most people don’t live around a military installation so when they see something like this, unfortunately she represents the entire Air Force past and present. This story has made it to Jay Leno and all the major news publications. People are not saying, “Wow, what a great job she did”. On the contrary they are saying, “What state of mind does our military have.” It goes much deeper than the surface. Say for instance she was serving with my here in South Korea and we took a trip to the DMZ (which I did a few weeks ago)…what would happen if she decided to express herself and had a lapse in judgment and do something to offend the North Koreans. We would have a international incident, sort of like the tree cutting incident (too long to go into. Long story short, more mental lapses like her current one would be detrimental especially in a hostile environment.
Again, I served along side of SSgt Crossmanhart and she had been pulling stunts like this for a long time (of course this being more serious). As a proud member of the US Air Force I am happy to say that we are better off without her.
On another note, please stop shoving your humanistic, pagan views down our throat and stick to the issue at hand.
To clarify: SSgt Crossmanhart did not sleep with any trainees. Other insturctors in the past were caught doing this and we thought she would be next.
AFTSGt-I knew what you meant, pertaining to your last clarification. You seem to know quite a bit about the woman, so I’ll accede to your judgment. My only point was that her posing for Playboy shouldn’t matter, this was the subject of the post, remember? But if she had shown in so many ways that she was unqualified, as you say, that is an entirely different ball of wax. In that case, of course she shouldn’t be training recruits. Also, if she showed up for a dinner or whatever it was in the presence of superior officers clad in a manner that she knew was obviously inappropriate, this too is sufficient to warrant her being disciplined. I have no problem with any of that. I was limiting my views in her case to the Playboy issue, which to me shouldn’t be an issue. If it is officially an issue, so be it, but it shouldn’t be. That’s my point, that and the fact that most military people should be above judging a person by that. They are going to have sufficient discipline and respect to not let that affect their interactions, or if they do not, they will quickly learn it.
Also, I want to add in my own defense, I myself have defended Christians when I thought they were unfairly maligned, whether you want to believe that or not is your call. And that is including Christian conservatives and evangelicals. But there is a minority of them, though a large and vocal one, who are at the root of a lot of these kinds of controversies, and who do want to push their religious views on others, you would have to be blind not to see that. Those are the ones I was aiming my remarks at, not the majority of Christians.
Also, to tell you the truth, I was doing my part to see if I could push the comments section on this post past the one hundred mark.
Good luck to you up there, and don’t worry about what Kim Jung Il thinks, he should be the one to worry about what we think of him.
Hey AFTSgt! I find it very hard to believe the AF has a grueling 14 week TI training program. Unless you were pararescue or a combat controller, don’t preach “grueling training.” Or are you just refering to grueling because you couldn’t get your 8 or 9 hours of sleepy time a night.
What did they teach you? The proper way to inspect a properly made bed or wall locker, or how to instruct the students to request “Time-Outs” when the instructor gets to rough with them.
YOU ARE AN IDIOT! Haven’t you ever heard of “OPSEC” before (That’s Operations Security for you non AF type)? You just divulge a lot of sensitive military information over this forum.
You had better hope that Kim Jong Il’s intellignece personnel won’t read this forum or his forces may attack, since you’ve just divulged a lot of information about the weakness of the U.S. Air Force. I suggest you sleep with a “round” in the chamber the next few weeks, until we can have this site taken down.
J
Boy, glad I never joined the military. You are a bunch of … [comment deleted by Robbie --- Bob, you're a fucking worthless piece of shit. You're a fraction of the man it takes to make it in the military, and if you got your ass kicked by a random street thug tomorrow, I'd smile and wink knowingly at karma.]
WOW! Heated discussion here. For her age she is pretty hot, I’ll give her that. Unfortunately the former TI up there AFTSgt is probably right on the nose with his assessment of her. I am currently crosstraining in an AF Tech School and as a Prior Service Army NCO, by all rights Militarily she was dead wrong, especially as an MTI. The most troubling thing for me to hear from the kids in my class that just graduated from AF Basic Training where she was still involved in some training of new recruits fairly recently is that she was giving Briefings on Wear and Appearance of the Military Uniform. This typically includes warnings as to some of the NOGO’s in Uniform such as Piercings and Tattoo’s, which she was evidently advertising as to the number of piercings she had and some she planned to get. Other stories I’ve heard about her from recent trainees overly excited to see her layout also lead me to believe that she was exhibiting a most unprofessional attitude, and at one of the most critical times in an initial training environment. No wonder these kids come to Tech School as F*&#$D up as they do. No respect, no discipline, no self respect. I applaud her for having the self confidence to pose, however as a dual service NCO of over 12 years, my opinion is put her ass on the street, kick rocks baby. She knew she was wrong, and if she didn’t, well I guess she does now.
SMSgt James (retired), I sure am glad that little retired piece is on there because you obviously know zero about Military Training Instructors. I will outrun you in a 1.5 mile run…guaranteed!
I did four years in arguably to the most intense duty the Air Force has to offer. When you get up at 0330 stay at work training America’s finest all day then don’t get home until 2100, don’t get in bed until 2300 making sure the uniform we so proudly wear is crisp and the boots on my feet look like mirrors and then up again at 0300 for roll call at 0400, and do that without fail 6 days a week (sometimes 7), then talk to me. You have the audacity to tell me that MTI training is not grueling. You have a lot of growing up to do, I don’t care how long you spent in the AF (if you were in the AF). I trained over 750 airmen in my 4 years as a TI in my beloved Air Force. How many have you supervised? Maybe 20. You need to wake up! As a TSgt with 8 years in the military I have more leadership experience in my pinky than you have in your entire body. Should I repeat the 750 # again, or did you get that the first time? If you were in the AF you were probably some old time geezer with a belly the size of Texas, big enough to rest your coffee cup on and lead from the back (for you I use the word lead very carefully, I doubt you led much of anything judging from your lack of knowledge pertaining to the AF).
OPSEC? His forces may attack from the surface information presented in this forum? Are you kidding me? What kind of sensitive material was given that is not already on publications nation wide. If a TI gets caught sleeping with trainees it’s all over the news. Or maybe it was the MTI creed that you can find on the internet. Or maybe it was the Joint Ethics regulation reference that has appeared on countless articles in the past. You are a complete CLOWN! You have no grip on reality and I doubt you are very stable. A little slow even. I certainly am glad you are no longer in the AF although I would love to see you when I am a Chief. Why couldn’t you make the grade, didn’t have a high enough board score? Did not test well? Records in shambles? No faith from your leadership? Should I go on? Strat not high enough? Didn’t complete your degree? A little tardy on your correspondence course?
You need help…heres some OPSEC for you. You are a bum!!
Wow AFTSgt…you are an idiot. The most challenging duty that the Air Force has is Special Tactics, i.e. Combat Control and Pararescue. I don’t care how fast you can run the 1.5 mile test. I’m sure the guys in Special Tactics could kick your ass from sea to shining sea. Making it through the MTI school isn’t even in the top 5 toughest training programs in the Air Force. Uncork your head from you ass and get a clue. It’s morons like you that make the Air Force look bad. And I am not even going to touch the OPSEC violation everyone else has mentioned. You should have recieved an Article 15 for that alone. You are a stooge.
AFTSGt —
I don’t normally allow for any type of personal attack on the men and women of our military or of veterans — but when the criticism is coming from a current active duty Airman…I’ll let it stand.
Besides…that was a pretty serious and well-done smack down.
Mr. Kelley,
I’m glad to see we can come to a middle ground. You have to understand, we give every ounce of our existence to ensuring the MTI campaign hat is honored and not maligned in any shape, form or fashion. We are a very passionate, tight knit group of individuals. When we take that creed we become part of a very select number of people who have worn the hat before us. As I type this right now, I am looking at my hat and I think about the blood, sweat and tears that went into earning (and keeping) the hat.
Out…
Hey there SMSgt James (ret), by the way the Air Force has never implemented timeouts. That actually was in the Navy and rumored to be in the Army.
You seem to have a niche for speaking (writing) without thinking. If you would like me to educate you on any more Air Force issues I would be glad to…is there a competent bone in your body??
Robbie, I would never “Jim Rome” someone unless provoked. This guy (James) is seriously uninformed. I have a obligation to defend the MTI corps if the need arises. And for him to assault the MTI corps with his mis-information is both unacceptable and uncalled for.
By the way, you have a very informative site! Much props!
The way I look at it is: Take any other woman not in the military and put them in a military uniform and pose them nude for Playboy, what happens? Thats right nothing. If this was done on her own time then leave the poor woman alone. Maybe if the higher ups would have some of their hidden secrets flaunted to the public and degraded in front of the world like the junior military people do. Maybe people wouldn’t look at us socalled peons like they do. So you higher ranking people should step back and take a damn good look at yourselves before you degrade someone else. I feel if a mother of two and 30yrs old looked that good in the military maybe they should set their standards and kick out all of the overweight lardasses who are still on activeduty who end up getting more than one chance!!
If this was done on her own time then leave the poor woman alone.
If you were in for 20 years, then you know that there is no such thing as “your time” when you are in the military. Not even when you are on leave. You are only being allowed to do some personal stuff on military time.
You also know that as an active duty member of the military, you are not allowed to enter into a legal contract for work outside of the military without special permissions and specific approvals.
This is probably where she’s going to get into “official” trouble — and don’t fool yourself that she didn’t enter into a legal contract with Playboy. I’m sure she signed something to the effect of, in consideration of payment of $XXXX, I agree to pose for Playboy magazine, and agree that they will be the owners of said photos and that they can use them however they want.”
Also, it appears that she told someone in her chain of command that she intended to do this, and was specifically ordered not to.
So, the issue when she is punished isn’t so much that there’s anything wrong with posing nude for Playboy (there’s not), but rather that she willfully disobeyed orders.
I still say if it is against regulations, this should be changed. This has nothing to do with her abilities, or as the case may be, her lack thereof of said abilities. Therefore, it should be a non-issue.
Especially in this day and age when military personnel might be forced to undergo repeated terms of service over and beyond what they might normally perform, and are powerless to do anything about it, in a war where they are forced to more or less fight with one hand tied behind their backs against an enemy, actually enemies, that commit every atrocity in the book and are to some degree defended by numerous international agencies,and by some in their own country, who at the same time criticize our military people and country. In the meantime, they are forced to endure a political leadership that is both incompetent and corrupt to an incredible degree.
If anything would destroy morale, these things I have just described will. Some woman posing for Playboy in the grand scheme of things is so minor as to be irrelevant. Especially when you consider the amount of pay they get, and how little help they get from VA, etc., in the cases of those that return home with serious disabilities.
I still say this is religious fanaticism run rampant, as why else would this even be an issue? Who else cares about stuff like this? That means it is actually unconstitutional, in my opinion, to have such rules in the army. Otherwise, it should be against regulations to work any part time job, or have any kind of extra income. If that is the case, so be it. But if you can work a few extra hours a week as a bartender, or a bowling alley attendant, then by God you should be able to pose for Playboy. Case closed.
I’m an atheist. She is being held to a standard that is common place in any job which commands respect. She’ll be kicked out. She wants to be kicked out.
And my point, Mr. Atheist, is that it shouldn’t be allowed. We are supposed to be living in a free, democratic society, so if your bosses on your job can dictate how you live your private life, on how you live your life away from work, then what is the difference between that and the government telling you how to live. The answer, of course, is they have no such right. It might be different to some degree in the military, up to a point, but I still fail to see how this affects her job.
Again, we live in a free country. The government cannot tell us how to live our lives. Neither should our bosses on our jobs. Neither should the churches, unless you belong to them and willingly subscribe to them. And neither should the military, if it is a case that doesn’t apply to her job.
Otherwise, we all live in a country where freedom and democracy are just nice sounding platitudes, but nothing more than that, if our bosses become not just our job bosses, but our de facto dictators.
Since you bring the issue of off duty employment up…in the AF we have a form that you have to complete to be eligible for off duty employment. Contrary to popular belief you can’t just go to Sonic and apply to be a carhop. The form that we fill out has to go through at least 7 different channels one of which is legal. Now with that said, SSgt Crossmanhart did not fill out said form b/c she knows if she did it would be denied. So there is another issue, she lacked integrity when she knew (especially as a NCO) that the form must be completed prior to entering any agreement for off duty employment and KNOWINGLY failed to do so. She is hardly worthy of the stripes she wears. For one moment, forget the Playboy fiasco. She lacked INTEGRITY, the same integrity we preach day in and day out. As MTI’s we are called to counsel trainees (written and verbal) who violate the core values, and trust me with 50 personalities in each flight this happens quite often. How can she counsel trainees about integrity when she blatantly violated the very principle.
Furthermore, there are 13 blocks on the form that ask you to check these little “will” or “will not” boxes. To name a few:
- Bring discredit upon the AF, US Govt, or DOD
- Interfere with or be incompatible with my duties
- Involve the use of my military title or representation
- Appear to involve a conflict of interest
- Violate any AF regulation
So you see, SSgt Crossmanhart did not fill this form out because she knew what the result would be. Whether you think this should be changed is irrevelant. She lacked integrity and will be severly punished as I would expect to be if I violated a standing AF standard. It’s extremely cut and dry!
Again the issue is not whether she posed for Playboy (which I personally disagree with, but
What is wrong with all you active duty AF people? This is exactly what she wants, to be kicked out. Its a quick way out the door, while filling her pockets with money from Playboy(publicity). I think the AF should have her do time, and as she does, Playboy should then come in to take photos while shes in her prison cell. ha ha. I personally do not have a problem at all with females or males posing nude. I can appreciate a beautiful bod. If any of you think for one moment that she didnt know what she was doing, you’re crazy. Hell, she’s been in the AF for 13 years and still a staff. She should spend a little more time in the PFE than in the gym or partying or whatever she is doing that is holdong her back from being promoted by now.
PS. Wouldnt it be a hoot if she got the AF to pay for those twins? It doesnt take much for a gal to convince doctors she needs them.
I think she is fooling herself if she thinks she has a career ahead of her in modeling.
AFTSgt-I wasn’t merely referring to working off duty at a second job while in the military. Somebody else brought up how certain jobs require a standard of behavior and how you can be dismissed if you do something that can “bring discredit” or “reflect badly” on the company you work for.
Such ideas are blatantly unconstitutional. If the government doesn’t have the right to tell you how to live your private life, so long as you don’t break the law, why the hell should an employer be able to control your private life.
For that matter why should the Air Force or any other branch of the military have the right to tell you how to live your life, as long as you do your job?
Somebody else brought up the excuse of well, what if she were my childs teacher? I would say the same thing. As long as she does her job and keeps her other life out of the classroom I would be the first person to give my child hell if I found out he or she had disrespected her.
Some people might say well that is going too far, that there are situations that call for special considerations and limitations. I disagree. Oh sure, in principle, I see their point. The thing about it is, once you give some people an inch, they will take a mile every damn time.
Therefore, one excuse to limit private freedoms leads to more and more excuses to do likewise. Before you know it, there is no such thing as freedom, it’s just an empty buzzword. Then, what you are left with is a country that is no longer worth any brave man or woman willing to sacrifice for it.
In such cases as The People versus Larry Flynt, I will proudly stand alongside the Larry Flynts of the world any time.
I agree with Active female MSgt, I think she was wanting to pursue her “modeling” career and this was the quickest way out. Would suck for her if she only got Art 15 and no discharge. These Airman that she was training are my Airman, as I’m also a active duty MSgt sergeant. I’m responsible for making sure these individuals are ready to complete the mission of one of the deadliest weapon platforms in the free world. Of course I talking of the B-52 Bomber. When these Airman arrived to me I expected them to understand and conform to the core values of the U.S. Air Force. I personally feel that by her actions she undermined that discipline. On another topic in today’s Air Force if your not a E5 by six years your behind the power curve, and at 13 you better have a line number for E6. However, alot of that has to due with self discipline
Hey Patrick Kelley here’s your goal of 100
Yep, sure enough. Now I’ll push it to over one hundred, just long enough to say, you all know deep down that I am right.
No kelley, you’re wrong.
In the civilian world when you’re off, you’re off.
In the military you are always on duty period dot. After normal duty hours you are on “Pass” until you are required to report for duty. When you are on leave, you are still on duty, just not required to show up to work. Even after you separate, most are on “Inactive Reserve”. Still on duty but it takes a special order to require you to show up to work.
It doesn’t surprise me that you wouldn’t understand and will be in denile and try and argue the point, but that just means you’re ignorant. Not an insult just a statement of fact you don’t understand the UCMJ.
Conduct un-becoming of an NCO, I think Article 91.
If AF MSGT is correct that she was told not to, Disobeying a direct order, I forget the article #.
The range of prosecution should run from Article15, non-judicial punishment to General courts marshal.
If punishment includes a reduction in grade, she will no longer qualify to stay in the military, because you have to be an E5 by 10 years.
In regards to rank, she is a little behind the average, but a few career fields are vey competitive. She’s in one. Bein a TI takes a lot of time and with a family it’s hard to find time to study.
Shifting gears, no one should say you don’t have the right to make comments. The GI’s have a little at stake here but civilians pay our paychecks. Here is the rub, the military sees this as conduct un-becoming because some civilians do find nudity offensive. Had she not shown the “Right” skin, even in playboy nothing likely would happen. Had she posed and use a “Modeling” name and showed no uniform or relation to the military, likely it would have fell below the radar. But that is why playboy did it.
Me personally, I have no problem with this because of my personal beliefs, but what she did is wrong by military standards. Because of the media attention she will be dis-charged one way or another. The sad part is she will get some fame and attention for a short while and they have to figure out what to do for a job. She’s good looking enough but I don’t think she’ll be able to live on a modeling career. She could go a few years as “having appeared in playboy” on the traveling feature stripper circut. Then will her husband be supportive of that? I have my doubts.
off topic, PK, you should try logical argument over ignorant insult. I hear the argument but then your emotions get the best of ya and you can’t stand it. You’re probably young.
Cheers, Dana
SMSGT, 26 years so far
No, such ideas are blatantly constitutional in that people have the right to enter into employment contracts.
Not always. Many jobs – both government and private, have similar requirements as part of the employment contract.
Attention Haters:
You’re all jealous! This in no way affects her ability to lead, train or accomplish her mission. Maybe if someone took your picture you’d have a seizure or lose all your faculties. I don’t believe it affects her one bit. When I served lots of troops were delivering pizza or some other part time job after they were released from end of day formation. They never caught hell for it and she shouldn’t either. They don’t like it? Give her 30 days extra duty and a loss of 1 months pay. Get over it. I’m a veteran and this kind of thing RAISES morale. If you want blind obedience and saintly women in the military, have the recruiters move in to an office across from a nunnery!
Hey Anonymous, you can say she doesn’t have a chance at a modeling career all you want. she’s way ahead of you by modeling for Playboy xxxxx. What you got? The cover of Field & Stream? xxxx.
[unnecessary and obnoxious personal insults deleted by Robbie]
She’s not that young and she’s not that good looking. The only thing unique about her is that she was active duty. I don’t consider a year or two posing in skin mags, which frankly doesn’t pay that good, a “career.”
The criticism is hypocritical, what are we defending as members of the military? FREEDOM! That includes freedom of expression. What harm to the military has this created other than what the media hype and Air Force brass has made it out to be, not to mention some self pious members of the military (Yes, I am in the military and have been for 25 years). Americans have too many sexual hang ups, perhaps that is why we have so many sexual problems as compared to other modern countries. Get over it, the human body is Gods work of art. Stop the prudish behavior and grow up. My only caveat, as the above SMSgt mentioned, if she was told not to by competent authority, she should have followed the proper channels for approval. That is the military.
RD, SMSgt
All I can say is that I’m glad I left the Airforce when I did 2 years ago because of the two faced hipocrital T.I’s I’ve seen in positions of authority who call themselves “training future airmen” preaching and teaching “the core values” and all that nonsense but turn around and do some shit worse than this….THE AIR FORCE NOR THE ENTIRE G-D MILITARY ARE NOT FULL OF SAINTS PEOPLE!!! GET OVER IT!!!
I’m surprised that no one has mentioned a certain PFC by the name of hmmm LYNDIE ENGLAND who was involved in the prison camp scandal like a only 2 years ago! Which I might add was by far a much more vicious (and not the only) act of misconduct by an individual in the military, where was the INTERGRITY there…. so with all of this talk about intergrity and core values on this lady’s behalf is a load of crap cause I say out of all the attrocities our military has committed if given a choice between this and the prison camp scandal from two years ago….I’ll GLADLY take seeing her bare all than a bunch of nude men who were forced to. This doesn’t rank up to JACK on the corrupt Crap-o-meter by the government and armed forces! Wish she was my TI! I would of been her best trainee!!!!
For those who have not served the military we are held to certain rules and regulations which holds as to a more strict lifestyle than the average American citizen. As soon as you sign that contract you are to follow the Uniform Code Of Military Justice. I don’t see anything wrong in posing in playboy (hell if you’ve got it flaunt it) , but she was in uniform and being a TI she knew well of those rules. Plain and simple she broke the rules and she should be punished. BTW if she thought that nothing was wrong w/ posing on Playboy why did she not notify her supervisor first?
Hey, what happened to the original post#102? That was a cool post. Anyway, on to business. Some anonymous poster argued me that it is constitutional for your job to hold you to certain standards of conduct when you are off the job. To which I say, BULLSHIT!!!!
If they can do it, then the government can do it. How many people here would sit back and willingly take the government telling you it is immoral to have sex outside of marriage, it is immoral to engage in homosexuality, it is immoral to hunt or fish, it is immoral to engage in fisticuffs, even if you are attacked and merely defending yourself, it is immoral to read certain kinds of books, etc., etc., and if you do so you should be punished, fined imprisoned, etc.
Yeah, I’m sure there is at least one of those things I listed that everybody here would find objectionable. So again, if it’s unconstitutional for the government to do it, what in the hell makes it acceptable for your employer to hold you to such standards of behavior?
The answer, of course, it is not.
As for the military, I will repeat, at the risk of sounding like a young whippersnapper that argues out of anger as opposed to logic, if this is a part of military rules, so be it, but such a rule should be repealed, as this has nothing to do with her ability to lead or train recruits.
How would you guys like it if you went to see a USO show and all of a sudden you discovered that some religious whackos had edited the show to make sure there was nothing tawdry or sexually suggestive, on the grounds that it was “immoral” or “bad for morale”. Would that make sense to you? Wouldn’t that really piss you off?
So how is this any different?
Come on, people, let’s shoot for two hundred.
Of course you would. You’re just not that smart. For the umpteenth time, it falls under employment contracts. When you enter the service or accept employment, you enter into a contract.
And my point is it should be against the law for such terms to even be included in contracts. At least in private sector contracts. I might be willing to allow some wriggle room for such terms in military contracts, but I don’t think Michelle’s case would qualify as a legitimate term.
Any private employer that tries to impose such terms on their employers need to be tarred and feathered, in my humble opinion. I would never fight for a country that allows business to rule the lives of it’s employers like that, that is just the facts.
Nobody is forced to enter into a contract. Don’t like the terms of employment? Seem a job somewhere else. You, on the otherhand, want to impose your views on everybody by telling business what they can and cannot do. Are you a commie?
Yeah…why should I care if my airline pilot is a meth user on “his” time when he’s not flying planes?
Or why should I care if my hypothetical kid’s elementary school teacher is an acitve member and vocal leader in the local KKK chapter — as long as she’s doing it in her free time…
i think this is all a load of bullshit, this TI was my freakin TI when i went through BMT two years ago, and to remove her from her duties permenantly would be ridiculous!!!!!! i understand that it really wouldnt be setting a good example for other airman, but come on. she would never let something like this interfer with her career, this woman has taken hits for our country and they’re going to try and get rid of her! BULLSHIT, i understand if they give her like a LOC, but dont take her hat and job away, she loves her job and nothing would hurt her more than taken it away. my point is that i dont think she should recieve anything more than a LOC. she did this on her own time, leave her the hell alone! she is one of the best TI’s lackland will ever see. she earned her senior airman rank below the zone, which is really great!!!!! just let this bullshit issue go!
Hearing that she made SrA below the zone, makes her only being a SSgt all the more interesting.
Say what you want, anything you do on your own free time is your own damn business, and neither big business or the government has no business trying to control your private life, so long as what you do on your own time is not against the law. That should pretty well take care of any concerns about a pilot on meth, as meth is against the law. If your kids teacher is a member of the KKK, then either learn to live with it, or outlaw the Klan.
i think its great so dont get me wrong, it might seem severe to be relievd of her duty but come on she asked for it. Being a TI she knows the rules better than anyone. I was told from day one that is was not allowed and this is what i told would happen if u did. We are held to a higher standard. This had to be intentional sabatage of her own career. Cant wait to see the issue
Hey there dave Creppon Jr, or should I say turd. Save your ludicrous comments for someone who doesn’t know her. You said, “She is one of the best TI’s has ever seen”. What justifies your statement. Every turd trainee thinks their TI is the best. She doesn’t even have a blue rope (top 10% of MTI’s). So if she is not in the top 10% how can you say she is one of the best.
You can refer to earlier posts if you want more insight as to why she isn’t the best. It’s well documented. As we TI’s say, you are a DINK (Desperately in need of knowledge).
Let me ask you a question since you claim she was your TI. What was your dorm score, bearing and discipline score and drill score when you went through. I’m guessing not that great because I knew SSgt Crossmanhart and all the flights she pushed were GARBAGE. Besides she only pushed like four flights. Furthermore, the fact that she made BTZ (actually I doubt she did, she probably told you DINK’s that b/c you will believe anything) has nothing to do with this. Heck, I made BTZ, Staff and Tech first time. But guess what, if I did something stupid I would expect to be reprimanded for it. Bottom line is she violated a known rule. She brought and continues to bring discredit upon the Air Force. On duty or off duty doesn’t matter. In the military our time is not ours. Furthermore, she knowingly failed to fill out the Off Duty Employment form b/c she knew it would be denied. There’s integrity for you. I would say that compromises her ability to teach integrity. What do you think? Actually I don’t care what you think. Did she teach you that same kind of integrity. If so, I would like to speak to your supervisor and tell him to watch you like a hawk.
On a side note, I did a search of your name on the Air Force global and you don’t seem to show up. Wonder why? 1 of 2 things. Either you are a liar and not really in the military or you were kicked out! I know you didn’t separate already b/c from the time you said you came in…that’s not long enough for an enlistment. Will the real Slim Shady please stand up??
OK, First off
I was in the Marine Corps for 5 years E-5. The First thing that you are informed of is ( UCMJ, Uniformed Code of Military Justice). Every person that goes into all the Military Branches in the United States knows About the UCMJ, And there are alot of Articles in there about what is right to do , and not to do. And when you sign that contract, you lose alot of your rights, you are NO LONGER a Cilvilian – you are in the United States Armed Forces. And Each Branch of the Military also has there own Core Values that you suppose to follow. It sucks for her because she been in the Air Force for 12 years, probably going for a career. And she blew it all away…
Don’t know why it matters how long she took to make ssgt, or how 13 years for that matter. Until the last 5 years or so, I was under the impression it was harder to make SSgt. I made it my first time, about 3 years in. Time to make ssgt isn’t exactly an indication of intellegence, or an indication of how hard a person works.
I personally don’t care. There’s quite a few other things that have embarassed the military, and boobs are like a sprinkle among them. And nobody can say they were told they cannot model while in the military. Yes, use of dog tags and uniform and position to promote is kind of farked up and wrong. How about instead of telling us all its against the UCMJ, use your PFE and decide what article it violates and how. Its all interpretation. It just embarasses the Air Force, I doubt its against the law. I could be wrong.
Air Force members aren’t suppose to participate in legal demonstrations, political demonstrations, etc. Nude modeling? I don’t know if I’ve seen anything on that one yet.
(BTW.. reality to air brush… might as well be a cartoon after the brushing… nice rack though)
I object to the relieving of duty and impending punishment of this Staff Sergeant Manhart for posing in Playboy. What she has done is no more detrimental to moral or leadership or her combat abilities THAN SMOKING A CIGARETTE!!!! We all know smoking is bad for you. It has a much more likelihood of manifesting into a degraded situation in the military than a nude layout! The military allows smoking in in every branch. With the exceptiom around flamables, indoors, or combat situations that require light or discipline. But smoking is bad for the individual and the team in the long run. I was a Staff Sergeant in the Marines, I was told a hundred times to quit. I never did. I always had a 1st class PFT (Physical Fitness Test) so I didn’t. I have since quit after my departure. So until the double standards are eliminated, she should be left alone. You have to think a little deeper than the “catch all” articles. Even someone that may be or may not be a sub-standard performer should not be the subject of a double standard.
af tsgt crossmanhart and peak pushed good flights
Still the double standard. And, Oh Yes, while in Europe, no one got excited or upset about topless/nudity on the beach or elsewhere. If you are Golden, you will get away with anything. (Even urinating on the Wind Commander’s front lawn at two in the morning (0200)). I’ve known officers that s_cked, etc., their way up the promotion ladder. I’ve also known full bird colonels who were having sexual affairs with two different women at the same time, and when his wife showed up, took care of her also.
And last, but not least, you salute the uniform, not the individual. And as it has been stated before, if it was wrong, why is Playboy and a lot worse sold in the BX/PX?
George Washington, “We do not give up the rights of a citizen, when we put on the uniform”
Her Commander was probably coming up for an OER (Officer Efficiency Report) and this was a Golden Opportunity for him to max it out. I’ve known a few that didn’t care how many “dead” bodies it took for their next promotion. Thank God, I am Retired and away from all of that Bulls!t!
Who cares… I am sure she made way more money to do the photos then she would in the military. I am sure she will be well on her way to a successful career out of the military.
i’m with a good number of folks… she knew exactly what she was doing. if you look at the previous case with a former u.s. sailor (former Navy Petty Officer and Playboy playmate Sherry Lynne White). and, being in the military. everyone knows that if you intend to do any work that could discredit the military or the government… well you might as well put in your paperwork to get out of the military. for her to be suprised that she was let go from active duty, and especially from her position, is bogus. but i’m glad to see her military funded breast augmentation came in handy.
i won’t discredit her for doing the spread, because she is attractive (whyplayboy used her photos). but her timing was way off. and to be a mother of two and over 30, i gve her props. but somethings are best left either just for her husbandin her own home or until she was out of teh service. because if i knew that she’d be my ti or di, i wouldn’t have the same respect for her. because i’d probably only think about her naked. anyhow, i hope she enjoys her remaining time in the national guard and enjoys the short-lived publicity from this.
and on a final note, i hope that every other male or female service member understands what fate will meet them if they choose a similar route. and their commands may not be so lenient.
I’d be surprised if she made more than 5-10k for her work. Since she is not very attractive to begin with, already in her 30s, she may get a couple of more nude photo gigs. But to imply that she has a career ahead of her, or the money is rolling in, is as delusional as thinking the USAF didn’t have the right/wasnt’ going to kick her out.
she has a good shape so why not? i think she made a good work
Everyone is talking about how “she” posed for this photo shoot but how is it any different when males pose for creatine enhancing, muscle flex, playgirl, FHM magazines? Shouldn’t men be held to the same standards that ya’ll are try’n to push on her for her photos? If not that’s just hypicritical, unfair, and unjust.
Many jobs, including those in the military and police, require one to obtain permission before moonlighting. Where is your proof that someone posed for an ad, did not obtain permission, and was not punished? Also, servicemen who have posed for skinmags have also been kicked out. It just never gets the same attention as when a female is involved.
I wish I had a chick like this on my boat. She would definitely help crew morale by sucking a ton of cock.
I think she should become an LDO and be in charge of weps.
First off she is not an officer in the Air Force, I keep hearing people say that, she is a ssgt. Well not anymore but was. Who cares if she posed nude. We don’t get paid that much in the military to protect this country which has tons of money. so she may have needed to extra cash or maybe she wanted a carreer change. I heard an interview with her on the radio and she maybe starting a reality tv show.
The Air Force says that she violated our very core values integrity first, service before self, excellence in all we do. Well she didn’t lie, she most likely posed on her off time and not on her lunch break, and for all we know she did do an excellent job on the photo shoot.
I do understand that her actions do reflect the Air Force as a whole and for some it is not a positive image. In the Air Force we do in fact have to get a commanders approval for off duty employment. So that being said that is all they should be able to charge her with.
Oh, Well I guess with all this publicity she will be off to bigger and better things and will not have to worry about being shipped off to Iraq to fight for the freedom’s she is entitled to.
I think she is a beautiful woman and sexy as hell. Makes me wish I had joined the Air Force instead. She didn’t hurt anything, except maybe a few wrists. They just got pissed of because she got one over on them and they didn’t like it. I hope she has fun with her new found freedom for which she definietly earned!!
Wow i had her in basic for the first couple of weeks. She was constantly flirting with other TIs..including a time that one was standing in the office doorway,and she had her leg up on the frame of the door kinda blocking him in.Plus i had heard rumors of her sleeping with a couple of the TIs at the squadron.i think this situation is so funny. She called my friend and fellow wingman a stripper all the time..hahahaha o the irony!
I just think it is funny how those that forced her out, let generals who had flings with their female staff members, found guilty of sexual harrassment were let off with a slap on the wrist and allowed to retire with full benefits. Before anyone brings it up, I realize one was downgraded to a colonel but his retirement pay is still more than most enlisted members pay while in active duty. It just continues to show that the officers are allowed to get away with more and are treated completely different than enlisted. If she would have been a Lt or Capt, then we would have probably never heard about this.
I just wanted to say something about this because it only came to my attention this morning. This affects me in a way since I actually had this woman as a TI in basic training.
When I was in basic it was instilled in the women to portray themselves with respect and to let there be nothing to bring them down in the eyes of others. We were hounded on about how there are people in the world that still feel that women shouldn’t be allowed in the military and how we were supposed to prove them wrong. Now personally I don’t believe that it’s necessarily wrong to be in Playboy, if you’re a civilian. All of the people who have said that you give up certain rights when you’re in the military are correct. You raise your hand and sign on the line when you join saying that you will do what they ask of you in order to protect your country. This means showing a higher standard of character than the average civilian.
It makes me sad to realize that one of the people that taught me the basics of my military career went back on everything she showed me how to be.
What happened was exactly the right thing to do. She is part of the United States military even if she is in the nasty air force. She is suppose to hold her self to a higher standard then the rest of these nasty civilians. She deserved everything she got.
Simple statement from a Canadian Special Operations Officer is that I bet all her CO’s and whatever tribunal that reviews her spends many an hour holding up her pictures with one hand while ‘disciplining her’ with the other. Hypocrites all.
She lucked out and good for her!
When you are that hawt there is no reason to bother with an Air Force career.
Of course she knew she’d get tossed, and obviously was fine with that non-punishment.
What a bunch of bullshit! Who gives a shit what she did?! I am in the army and I believe that she should be left the fuck alone by all of you hypocritical fuck sticks. Did she do the job that the air force asked her to do? If they are so worried about how we look morally in the military, why dont they do something about society? I can’t even believe that this is even questioned. Getting into Playboy is not like making the local paper, they dont just put anyone in it.
And here is something for all of you haters–
GO FUCK YOURSELF!!
Just so all you dreamers know, I had her as a finance instructor 2 years ago when I went through basic training!
Any interview in ANY publication with you wearing a uniform and speaking as military personnel REQUIRES you to get clearance from Public Affairs. This goes for anything from interviews with local TV stations and newspapers.. to SPREADS IN PLAYBOY.
She knew exactly what she was doing. She did this so she could be released from active duty to pursue a modeling career. With a body like that, I’m sure she’s doing great.
It just shows how much we really care our whore’s for entertainment. I mean they’ll be going down on us and after a month or two they’re on there way to another job. She just happens to be really hott seeing how it’s military they have to make it public when the media will take full advantage and destory respect her family name has.
i think she should get a change of station and drop down to e-4. not kicked out. but honestly its diffently not my call. im army. though i wouldnt mind seein the pics i could care less what happens to her. its none of my bussiness. i just find it funny that you people are talkin about this instead of other things that are more important.
so what has happened with this? havent heard anything in awhile. and AFTSGt…..i completely understand wat ur saying and everything, i still think she was a great TI. but maybe like u said, it might have just been becuz she was my TI. SSgt Peak was also a great TI in my opinion (he was pushing out flight as well) and i have a good idea who u are, u dont happen to be TSgt Staten do u? lol. if so, i definitely remember u, i wish i had u as a TI, u were the one who got me my element leader spot with SSgt Harris. you should email me if it is you, [email protected]
For those individuals that need this to be broken down lower than rocket science level here we go! PEOPLE LISTEN, THIS IS A MILITARY MEMBER, NOT A CIVILIAN! What this simply means is that she waived her right to certain freedoms everyone else has when she swore into the military before ever setting foot on boot camp soil( or blacktop or whatever). In case you might be sceptical about her waiving these rights before boot camp, take a trip down to the local MEPS station in your part of town and watch people swear into the military. They definately make sure people are clear on the fact that they are not civilians anymore and live under a different ste of laws called the UCMJ. Then she went to boot camp and it was clearly stated to her the rights and reponsibilities of military personel. Then there was the matter of a 13 year shortened career that I’m sure she was further enlightened on what conduct was expected of her. OH!!!, wait a minute, if boot camp was’nt enough for some of you, she had to go through another, more extensive form of boot camp to be able to teach basic training. So lets tally up the opportunities for understanding.
1. “Swearing in” before boot camp
2. Boot camp itself
3. I forgot to mension this one earlier but she had to go to a school for her occupational specialty where they teach her further about her resposibilities.
4. Years of experience and her rank which has ceremonies attached to it outlining her resposibilities for the paticular rank everytime she was ever promoted.
5. The training to be able to teach basic training which would be like boot camp to the 10th power(well maybe 3rd power for airmen).
6. And last but certainly not least, she actually had time under her belt teaching basic training.
Now someone tell me that after all these opportunities to learn she really fell under the radar of learning and I can sell you beach-front property in Arizona. She new exactly what she was doing, and that it was wrong, and then bats her lashes with the I’m just an innocent girl routine and grown adults bite it hook, line, and sinker( and possibly the fishing rod too). This woman gives a quote about being able to take part in the same freedoms she defended and is actually able to grip the hearts of the Horny, the foolish, the unweary, the ignorant, or just those who don’t have the slightest clue that military and civilian law don’t parallel each other. Come on people, the way her body looks has nothing to do with this case which by the way, is having to do with integrity. She new she was wrong and my guess would be that she figured that the descipline she would receive would pale in comparison to what could possibly happen if this exposure opened new doorways into hollywood or whatever. Now we have her as a spokesperson for freedom as a female military member fighting for it. HOW POETIC but nevertheless still wrong. What baffles me is that we actually have military members in this forum not only defending her, but also stating that they can’t see where she went wrong! Those individuals are worse than the people who’ve never done military service. At least they can plead ignorance through absense. Oh, and by the way, in case you wonder about which code of UCMJ was broken, conduct unbecoming and article 134 sounds like a good start.
FYI, her immediate chain of command said, “no problem, go ahead” – she had the necessary permission to do this on her time by her chain of command. Every review in her file is a firewall 5 – as good as you can score, and every one of them. Only after the deal was done and the issue out did the brass say, “What’s this!”. Now, for all those who feel they are an “expert” on military justice, you now have, as Paul Harvey says, the rest of the story.
Oh, bullshit. Sell crazy somewhere else.
You know what’s funny? So much criticism being thrown at this woman and everyone who is dishing out the insults and judgments probably came across this page while searching for the nude pics of her so they could get their jollies off. And hey Al, I’d like to address your comment, “Those individuals are worse than the people who’ve never done military service.” Do you realize you just insulted every person who has never joined the military? Remember somewhere in YOUR training how these are the people whose freedom you fight for? Something wrong with civilians, man? You just insulted the recipients of the gift your sacrifice brings. Think about what you say before you say it.