So, we’ll play this game? From your link:

Yet you dance gleefully upon the tabletops, drunk with joy, when you hear that a fetus has been aborted.

By: thegreatpeaveydreamer on April 16, 2007 at 01:09pm

There are asses on both sides of the aisle. I’ll also note that you quickly proposed your own political solution to the tragedy in your post on the subject.

What a horrible tragedy. In my humble opinion, there is little that can be done to stop a deranged person from committing acts like this.

I’ll also note that you quickly proposed your own political solution to the tragedy in your post on the subject.

Fair enough. My own hypocrisy and political bias noted.

Interesting that my daughter just called and said she’s sure this will be the impetus for congress getting on the gun control wagon. She’s probably right.

Political solution? More like a practical solution. If a student or teacher had access to a weapon, there is a good chance innocent lives may have been spared.

Of course it’s a political solution and practical or not there are obviously other opinions about the best policies to reduce gun violence.

A shocking tragedy. No European can understand how this happens again and again (Nineteen School / College shooting rampages in 10 years). No way I am going to argue against your stupid gun control laws… if you didn’t understand the situation after Columbine, you never will!

This is such a heartbreaking tragedy.

I agree with you, Dianne.

Are you out of your flippin’ mind??? Armed college students would reduce violence? Yeah, I’m sure a bunch of drunken frat boys totin’ pistols would make campuses safe for everyone.

When are you going to wake up and realize that violence begets more violence?

Speaking as a student at one of the largest universities in the country (UT-Austin), I say with great confidence: students w/guns=bad idea.

Let’s ignore the atrocious excuse for a response by campus and state police.

Let’s ignore the lax security that allowed someone with a gun to get into a dormitory in the first place.

Instead, let’s make the RIDICULOUS assertion that COLLEGE STUDENTS, the world’s role models for rational decision-making no doubt, people who are more prone to binge drinking and drug use, should be allowed to carry FIREARMS on campus.

I’m not for tighter gun control laws. Enjoying the right to bear arms means you’re going to have people who snap, get guns, and kill people.

My neighborhood, west of campus, can be hazardous. Drunk drivers and pedestrians abound, fights break out regularly, and wanton vandalism is rampant. Just a few weeks ago a woman complained to the school paper that unidentified persons (probably students) had demolished her car by chucking cinderblocks onto the vehicle from a balcony. In Texas it’s LEGAL for any of these folks to own a pistol, shotgun, or rifle.

And you want them to be able to take it to school?

I’m all for the expression of differing opinion, but what the FUCK is wrong with you?

And before you say it, yes, I’m well aware that the UT tower sniper was shot and killed by an off-duty policeman. Emphasis on “policeman”.

JC — V Tech was a “gun free” safe zone already. What violence “begat” the violence that occured there yesterday?

The answer is none. However, legally armed students (per our 2nd Amendment right to bear arms) could have minimized the outcome.

So I guess the right to bear arms was intended to allow U.S. Citizens to defend themselves against those who might exercise the right to bear arms… ‘weird science’!

I hear your allowed to buy one gun a month over there; arguably the most advanced nation in the world yet these are the serious flaws that make us question you.
It’s times like this when the rest of the world might say;
“get the hell of my land, get the hell out of my politics, just go back to your morbid obesity, your guns, your beliefs in alien abductions, death penalty, christian extremism , Oil, devotion to Capitalism – is that the full stereotypical gambit…. let’s chuck in MacDonalds, Coka Cola, Starbucks, Vietnam, Iraq, foreign policy 1950 to present day, Reagan, Bush, Bush II, Star Wars (not the film), Superman, assasinations of the most decent people to enter politics, WACO, New Orleans…”

The list is half in jest, the article embodies the very stupidity that your nation has perfected. Your murder rate is astounding, your School / College murder rampages EXIST! My God this actually happens and people think you lot owning guns is good! AAAAAGGGGGHHHHHH

*Jimmal explodes in a ball of confusion*

What violence begat the violence? The violence that pervades our culture, Robbie. You can’t watch 5 minutes of news without seeing violence. We are a culture that seeths with anger, resentment, judgment, and fear, and when certain individuals with fragile states of mental health reach a boiling point, explosions like this happen.

I don’t want to live in an armed world where we walk around with guns just waiting for somebody to “start some shit.” You can guarantee that somebody’s going to start some shit. What we need are more models of peace, more models of understanding, more models of someone who might have reached out to this hurting individual and made him remember that he was a human being.

So no, the answer is not “none.” The answer is that violence is everywhere around us, and someone’s got to be the first one to say, “it stops here.”

Here’s a column by Bob Cesca that puts the focus where it ought to be. Relax, he’s not coming after your guns.

Stop ownership civil weapon at united state

Weds 18th April 2007.

It’s amazing that things just carry on over there… just another day I guess. I urge those in the U.S. who are against gun ownership and the KKK NRA to shout louder. All those who think owning a gun makes you Shirley Wayne and will protect you against Bin Laden, The Fourth Reich and Satan Cottonsocks, please crop yourself some logic – you really are as desperately stupid as any person who has ever walked this miserable planet.

Gun ownership isn’t the problem, personal responsibility is. Everybody and their mother wants to go ahead and pass the buck , claiming that if the misuse of something causes a tragedy, then the “thing” in question must be at fault.

Growing up, my father was an avid hunter. He did and still does keep two shotguns and a rifle underneath his bed (under lock and key, and unloaded). At a very young age he took my me and my brother aside and made it very clear that we were never to play with his guns, or even go near them, and he always kept his ammunition (also under lock and key) in the garage.

Private gun ownership isn’t the problem. It’s lazy, irresponsible adults who don’t take the time or don’t have the intelligence to figure out that a gun is an INCREDIBLY DANGEROUS weapon, and ownership of it should be coupled with EXTREME CAUTION.

So there goes your argument against “most gun accidents happen at home, so we should ban guns”. Moving on…

If you’re for banning gun ownership as a way to combat gun violence, then you’re also for censorship of any and all violent media. After all, video games, music, books, and other media containing violence “turn” kids to violence, and without guns they could just as easily get a knife, bat, club, chain, anything-else-that-can-be-used-as-a-deadly-weapon-which-is-just-about-anything and kill someone. There’s no gun ownership in Japan, yet there have been numerous instances of school children murdering others with knives and other implements.

You’re either for personal freedom or against it. There’s no in between.

John, there is no debate here… The North American homicide rate is comparable with countries which are either war zones or virtual war zones. Your pathetic argument is killing your countrymen. I respect the manner in which your father brought you up regarding guns. however the fact remains it is far too easy for you lot to kill each other.

It’s a shameful embarrasment. Just how dangerous is ‘personal freedom’ in North America? So dangerous you need deadly weapons at the ready? Honestly, European society isn’t crapping itself every which way, despite the fact your murderous moronic culture venemously permeates our own at every turn. This is your life people, and your scared sh*tless that someone is going to take it to the point that you don’t even have one… I’m holding back on insults, your all as dangerous as each other… those against need to try harder, and those for it need to open their eyes.

Absolute, unbelieveable, moronic, pathetic, derranged, despicable, disasterous, terrible culture. Right now I feel so disappointed, just get back to munching your stupid f*cking burgers and stay away from the sane people who want to enjoy living. I really am going right off you lot, that’s 32 kids dead, and you still want guns!
Idiots

Jimmal…I take exception to your characterization of our culture. At least we don’t have radical islam taking over our country. Don’t worry about guns in the U.S.; just watch out for the machete wielding nuts who want your head and who you are ALLOWING to take over your country.

Dianne, believe me, having read your personal views on a number of issues, along with various other people who contribute to urbangrounds.com, I generally value what most have to say even when I disagree. Much of the world has a stereotypical view of the U.S. that is negative. I’ve been to countries where I have had people apologise on my behalf for my being English – trust me, it can be 100 times worse for North Americans. So when I come on here and appreciate that most of you are just decent people trying to get by as best as possible, many of you aware of countries beyond your own borders, I am one of few.
It is stories like this, whereby 32 students are killed at college, and it’s not that surprising cause we’ve all seen it before. I want you to know that if I didn’t know better I’d just revert straight back to hating your nation.
How can you dictate to the World (thank god your influence is at least waning) when you allow this stuff to happen? You seem like a bunch of self righteous nut jobs! Your President allows effective gun laws to end and then he prays to his god when kids are shot… stop praying and actually do something about this.

And for the record Dianne, I don’t know where you get your news from, but no-one is taking over our country… just stick to the facts of this issue, you have 32 dead students – FACT.

you have 32 dead students – FACT.

Which has given you quite a stiffy. Go ahead and have your obligatory anti-American tantrum. We’re use to it. It’s good for laughs.

Jimmal:

Every country has fucking problems: FACT.

England, France, Belgium, and other European powers are solely responsible for the deplorable plight of many African nations, including Rwanda and Sudan, yet people pout and cry when AMERICA doesn’t do anything about it: FACT.

I also enjoy the way in which you group an entire nation of people, arguably the most diverse nation on the planet, into one paradigm that must ring true for every fucking American in the entire goddamn country.

I guess the MASSVIE CONTINGENT of Americans who disagree with me don’t count for anything. Yup. Every American on the face of the planet is a fast-food scarfing, beer-swilling, racist, sexist, homophobic, moron.

There are many things about American culture that bother me. But believe it or not, GASP, Americans are not the only people that are fucked up? Holy shit, there are ENGLISH people who are racist! There are ENGLISH people who are homophobic! Problems exist outside of the realm of the United States! OH MY FUCKING GOD! Do I even need to bring up football hooligan culture?

Think before you speak, please.

Do I want to own a gun? No. Do I think people should be able to purchase and use guns responsibly? Yes, and believe it or not, it IS possible.

How many people day every year from drunk driving? Do we pass another prohibition amendment? No.

Again, you cannot logically be FOR one form of personal freedom: alcohol, drug use, free speech, etc, and AGAINST another: gun ownership, free speech when you don’t agree with it (ie: allowing groups such as the Minutemen or KKK or NSM to freely march and demonstrate as per the CONSTITUTIONALLY PROTECTED RIGHTS).

KMA, if that’s goingto be your response, then I may as well have an anti American tantrum for the rest of my days… I’m not going to stand by a nation which cares so little for the life of it’s citizens. Your homicide rate should really tell you all there is to know.

John J, I’m not sure who is moaning about U.S. non-intervention in Africa, I hope you stay out of Africa unless you’re actually doing something that African nations want. Europe is largely responsible for the plight of Africa – however I think you may be confusing nations who have suffered decades of power struggle (after Imperialism) with a nation who claims to be the greatest the world has ever known (U.S.A.).

I’ve tried to state at every turn that I am highlighting stereotyipical views of North Americans that I have not conformed to since the naivety of childhood. I repeat, these catastrophically desperate murder rampages are accepted too readily in the U.S. where they happen on average twice a year! If you actually did something about it and recognised how terrible it is, then fair enough. But no, you just put it on the pile with the rest of the murders, everyday becoming more and more dull to the pain, to the point where you’d probably be worried if your people were not being shot dead. This is such a major issue; if I hate you for allowing this to happen, then adding obesity, geographical ignorance or alien abductions to that might seem negligable.

I’m well read on Football hooligan culture; it’s largely organised and mostly involves only those who actually want a fight. Of courese, when it affects innocent bystanders then it caan be tragic. I wonder what might happen if they had guns? You cannot compare football hooligans to high school murder rampages; that is stupid.

There are stringent laws about drink driving, it’s not as though your Government has decided to allow people to drive around drunk now is it? What a stupid analogy, yet to produce an agument which is weak and pathetic.

I’m strongly in favour of personal freedom, that does not mean that any old idiot should be allowed to walk around with a deadly weapon, accidents happen, people fall out with their wives and get depressed and go mental, people find their daughters shagging men they don’t approve of, women get p*ssed off because someone is tailgating them and in that split second where any of us can be just out of control, the last thing any of us needs is a gun. The only reason you seem to have them is because you are so scared of god knows whatever Bush II told you to be scared of this week.
You plonk gun ownership right next to free speech as rights… how? On the one hand a tool of death, on the other the ability to discuss…
John, I repeat, pathetic, weak arguments, if you have even the tiniest ammount of sense in your head then support heavier gun control leading to an outright ban. I don’t want your murderous bent culture to infect my own any more.

Jimmal, I haven’t even stated a position on gun control, you freakin, judgmental, loud mouth. FACT

The shooter was mentally ill. FACT

Mentally ill people sometimes commit heinous crimes with or without guns and it doesn’t matter what country they live in or what laws they live under . FACT

If you don’t want responses like mine, then use a little respect in your characterization of me and my country which I happen to love and will defend.

KMA, if that’s goingto be your response, then I may as well have an anti American tantrum for the rest of my days…

You already do. Nothing we say will stop you.

I’m not going to stand by a nation which cares so little for the life of it’s citizens.

Get real. Nobody needs you for anything. You have now made this tragedy all about poor widdle Jimmal/Brumfk and his hatred of the big bad mean Americans. How narcisstic of you. And, so very much like Cho Seung-Hui . . .

Mentally ill people sometimes commit heinous crimes with or without guns and it doesn’t matter what country they live in or what laws they live under

Of course they do, so why give them the guns to make it so much easier?
You have the most lax gun laws and you have the worst homocide rate… ‘go figure’.

Narcasim has nothing to do with it… it’s me and the rest of the world that can’t understand how you continue to support your ludicrous gun laws when you clearly have the inclination to shoot each other. The only good thing that can come of this awful college murder rampage is that the U.S.A. might adjust it’s gun legislation to help prevent this from happening evre again… any chance of that happening this time???

Narcissim has everything to do with Cho — just like it has to do with you.

Ok KMA, I’m sure your not in favour of School / College murder rampages. Your country currently turns them out at 2 a year. What do you propose is done about it?

1. Stop making them killing zones by stop making them mandatory gun free zones. The incidents were school spree killers were sucessfully stopped were when someone present had access to a gun.

2. Keep people like you out in that you are just as much a psycho as Cho.

1. You really believe that Schools are appropriate places for guns? Are you the stereotype that blights your country?

2. I am more than familiar with mental illness, not as a patient thankfully. If I were mentally ill, I cannot think how I would go about acquiring a gun in this country; I’d have to make inroads into the underground and I’d probably be shopped pretty quickly if I started asking people if they knew where i might find a gun.

KMA, how easy is it for you to get a gun?

Adults attend these schools –not children. And you are mentally ill. You repeatedly tried to pass yourself off as an American. You have delusions of being an American folk/blues singer (don’t quit your day job). When your lame ideas get rejected, you call us fat. Seek help.

Adults attended Virginia Tech – that is adults of around 18 and upwards.
How old were the children in the Amish school murder case?
The U.S. repeatedly suffers School shootings where children / teenagers are killed. Are these places where guns should be carried? How many parents want their children to attend a school where you are allowed to carry a gun?

If, after this awful murder rampage, the U.S. still does nothing to look after its citizens, to protect you from each other, then yes, I think I will become a person who just hates all the stereotypical things you get up to. And yes, that does make a difference. I’m a man of this Earth, I may have been born in one place, but I have every right to go where ever I please and care for who ever I choose. I care about people in the U.S. being shot; I think it’s despicable you allow this to happen and I wish that you would do something about it, other than suggesting that college students should carry guns!

Adults, either teachers or adult students, that had access to guns, have stopped school spree killings.

You are a nut. You want to pass yourself off as an American and when it doesn’t work, you insult us. You think Iran should have nuclear weapons. You care about nobody and nothing but yourself.

So, School Teachers, I assume, should be taught how to handle a gun. They should be trained in how to stop those who might storm into their classroom with a gun? Have you ever met a teacher? They tend to want to teach their chosen subject… the really good teachers really want to educate their pupils… should they be expected to shoot people? The teachers I know would think this ridiculous.

You know how sad it is that your Police have to carry guns? This is not neccessary in many countries. Imagine a world where not even the Police need to carry guns (where I live) and compare it with a world where school teachers might be required to carry a gun? It’s depressing.

You have no idea how similar your anti-American rants are to the Cho tapes. You both have a lot in common. Seek help.

I suggest a little geography lesson. This country covers 3.5 million square miles. England is about 50,000 sq miles, about the size of the State of Louisiana. Can you imagine a country this size with police who don’t have guns? Talk about the inmates running the asylum!

I think we need a little more common sense and a little less dreaming on this subject.

Dianne, I’m at a loss with regards to your geography notes. Clearly the USA is larger than the UK. The CIA calculates a population density as follows, population : area – they calculate it in Kilometers:

298,444,215 : 9,631,420 = 31 persons per square Km

60,609,153 : 244,820 = 248 persons per square Km

So with your bit of information, we discover that the UK is very densely populated, interesting. I can only assume that you lot are willing to catch a bus to find you victims.

So please, what does the actual size of the U.S.A. have to do with this?

It’s a sad reflection if you think that stopping killing is a dream.

Jimmal:

We seem to be at each other’s throats without cause or reason. Let me explain my position more rationally:

Gun violence in the United States is out of control, I agree.

However, a nation-wide ban on guns is very troubling to me for a couple of reasons:

As I’ve stated before, one unfortunate side-effect of “liberty and justice for all” and all that jazz is you can’t be selective with it. In much the same way that I’m personally offended by the Minutemen, the KKK, the NSM, Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter (ok, so most of them are just laughable), I would never, EVER agree with anybody who would say they shouldn’t be allowd to spew their toxic rhetoric all over any public forum they damn well pleased. The reason? Suppression of one type of free speech (hate speech), will inevitably lead to another. It’s for these reasons that Don Imus’ firing also angers me.

I was arguing with a friend of mine, a young woman who is studying to get her PhD in Psychology. She was disgusted by the posting of video clips/photos from Cho’s NBC package to the internet. Her justification was that the saturation of media with such materials encourages similarly-minded individuals to carry out their plans: the allure of posthumous fame is very strong, it seems.

A very valid point. However, we CANNOT tailor our society to the lowest common denominator. I’ll be goddamned before any newsgroup restricts the flow of information to me because of the “potential for copycat killers”. It’s the same idiotic line of thinking that lets our government BAN OUR MEDIA from showing graphic video/photographic material of the War in Iraq. God forbid people actually realize war is extremely violent, disturbing, and tragic. Better to just put more pictures of American flags flappin’ in the wind and hope nobody notices.

Ok, off-topic rant over.

Likewise, a ban on guns opens the doors the use of power I do NOT want in the hands of ANY government, ESPECIALLY not our current government. Giving an administration like the Bush administration the power to restrict personal freedom (any more than they have already) is like giving them (excuse the simile) a loaded gun.

I wholeheartedly agree that “more guns” is NOT the answer. “Less guns” probably is, but in my opinion, the rippling effects of such legislation would have far-reaching consequences that I cannot support.

Oh and Jimmal, you said my comparison to drunk driving is pathetic because “there are stringent laws against drunk driving”.

I’m pretty sure murder is illegal too. Let me get back to you on that one.

John, I appreciate what you are saying. In many ways I agree with your friend, if you read Plato’s ‘Republic’ you might see where she is coming from – as JC Shakespear has said, Violence begets Violence. If you don’t put the concept of murder into someones head, they are less likely to come up with it themselves. At the same time, it might be wise to alert the populace to the awful crimes that are happening, if for nothing else than that they might be able to do something about it.

The drink driving analogy does not work. It is illegal to drive a car when drunk; it is not illegal to own a gun when drunk. Concealing a gun when drunk is easy, concealing a car when drunk is a little harder. And anyhow, the motives for owning a car and owning a gun a clearly separate.

“more guns” is NOT the answer. “Less guns” probably is

It won’t win you a Nobel prize, but your getting closer!

Jimmal:

Stop with the condescending tone, please.

It is illegal to drive a car while drunk. It’s also illegal to murder someone with a gun. Do people do both anyways? Yes.

“The motives for owning a car and owning a gun are clearly separate.”

Yeah, but the implication you’re making is that anybody who owns a gun is just itching for the chance to shoot someone, which is by and large, not the case. By the same token, there is a slice of the population that buys fast cars because they like to drive at dangerous speeds, and there are those who see nothing wrong with chugging a handle of Jack before getting behind the wheel.

Guns are used for hunting, competitive, and recreational purposes, as well as by paranoid idiots who think carrying a concealed handgun on their person is going to make them impervious to muggings, and insecure dolts who can’t face the world without a loaded pistol in their desk drawer. I’d rather preserve the right to gun ownership because I think you’re skating a very thin line when you start letting idiots and maniacs dictate domestic policy.

Drawing on a football analogy again: hooligans have been known to go to matches, get drunk, break things, and hurt people. Can you still purchase beer at a football match?

As for violence begats violence…well yeah, of course constant exposure to violent media can serve as a trigger in messed-up kids who are already very angry at the world around them. But the fact of the matter is, the vast majority of people DON’T shoot up their schools, and limiting the flow of information in the name of “stopping imminent danger” sets a very dangerous precedent. Who gets to decide what or how “dangerous” media is? It’s a very slippery slope I’d rather not go down.

I know some people will be sad to hear this, but violent crime has gone down significantly in the past decade.

Jimmal..shoot fish in a barrel or shoot them in a swimming pool.
C’mon….your argument doesn’t work and mind you I’m talking about the cops, not the criminals and this is only a hypothetical, certainly not real world.

But, the bottom line here is, we have a constitution and you don’t. Our constitution guarantees us certain rights which our forefathers deemed precious and the right to bear arms is protected by our constitution. It’s our right to amend it or not. We have a procedure for doing so if necessary. We’re not idiots and we’ll do what’s in the best interests of our people.

What baffles me is why people who don’t live here…aren’t citizens here..think they know better than us what we want or should have. What most countries want, for sure, is our money, our tax dollars. Don’t think for a second that we’re generous to the point of idiocy to those who spit in our faces.

Of the last 3 posts it seems KMA has stuck to the issue. Otherwise Dianne and John have adopted the spurious tactic of metaphor which only serves to divert from the central issue.

Guns & Cars. Guns were designed as efficient killing machines. Cars were designed to get us fromA to Z.

Football hooligans. Fighting at or around football occasionally happens. It is something that football governing bodies and the police take very seriously and over the years various actions have been taken to end it. In the UK it has declined and I’m confident this will spread to other countries.

I’m glad to hear that violent crime has gone down. Government figures are often manipulated, however I’ll not criticise them without adequate knowledge.

Shooting fish in barrels; isn’t that a saying that is intended to describe how easy something might be… “it’s as easy as shooting a fih in a barrel”. You’ve just made my point Dianne, it would be harder to shoot a fish in a swimming pool; the swimming pool being the U.S.A and the fish being a person. Bloody metaphors!

Dianne, I’ve said before, I care about people around the world and I get involved with people in suffering around the world. This mostly involves nations in Africa, the middle and far East and occasionally South America. It involves Eastern European women brought into my country under false pretences and used as prostitutes. U.S. culture has a direct affect on our own… the U.S.A. is currently the world power, you have vast influence on all nations. It’s important that that influence is possitive – you won’t have it much longer and I would hope your legacy could be better than that which you are currently faced with. An interesting point on money (the ‘American Dream’) the US Dollar is at a real low point right now… if you want to travel in Europe, see how far you Dollars will get you. Your ‘genererosity’ only began when Socialism threatened your piggy bank, before that you left us to suffer in practical destitution. Furthermore, China has bought your debt, they practically own your nation, so if we are to ‘thank’ anyone it is that brutal regime. We may know more about you than you do yourself, Dianne.

Which may give me more right to say; learn from your homicide rate. Learn from your 32 dead in Virginia. Recognise unlimited gun ownership among the masses is clearly dangerous and do somethng about it.

John: You haven’t been able to buy beer at most football grounds for many years. I only know of Blackburn Rovers. This is one of many things done to solve that problem. What has been done about gun crime and how effective has it been?

Of the last 3 posts it seems KMA has stuck to the issue.

The issue being that you are an obnoxious nut, don’t know what you are talking about, and that your rantings are eerily similar to Cho’s.

I’m done with this particular post. Stick to the topic..ok…if Cho had not had a gun, as mentally disturbed as he was, he would have found another way to commit mass murder by any number of means. The problem was Cho, not guns. End of story.

Jimmal: gun ownership is by no means “unlimited.” in the united states.

If were familiar at all with gun laws in the United states, criminal and mental health background checks are required for all gun purchases. You must be at least 18 to purchase a rifle or shotgun. You must be at least 21 to purchase a handgun.

To obtain a concealed weapons permit (at least in Texas), you must complete a rigorous training course.

Guns may not be purchased by persons deemed mentally or physically dangerous. This includes persons committed to psychiatric institutions, and persons convicted of felonies.

Obviously, they are severe problems with the enforcement of these rules, or Cho never would have been able to buy a gun (as you’ve probably read in the news, his time spent at a mental health facility, and the subsequent diagnosis of him as “a danger to himself” should have barred him from purchasing firearms).

Obviously, they are severe problems with the enforcement of these rules, or Cho never would have been able to buy a gun (as you’ve probably read in the news, his time spent at a mental health facility, and the subsequent diagnosis of him as “a danger to himself” should have barred him from purchasing firearms).

Danger to themselves or others is a legal catchall necessary to detain someone and transport them to a hospital for evaluation. Once there, they are strongly encouraged to voluntarily admit themselves for observation. If they are found not to be a threat to themselves or others, the hospital can not keep them if they want to leave. I believe Cho was released a few days later. There was no legal reason to report him or barr him from buying a handgun. You can’t put serious legal restrains on everyone who in a moment of despondency then seeks psychiatric help. To do so will prevent more people from seeking help. Cho was frankly an abberation. He was homicidal and if he hadn’t been able to buy the guns, he would have found them another way.

I think if the pro-gun lobby (I’m looking at you Dianne and John) was to face the FACTS rather than hide behind their ridiculous constitutional claims they’d have a much harder time arguing that having a lethal weapon in your house is a good idea.

For example:
“MYTH: Keeping guns in the home increases personal protection.
TRUTH: Obviously, self defense is not a good argument against gun control since those who own firearms are actually more likely to be victims of homicide. Two studies published in The New England Journal of Medicine revealed that keeping a gun in the home increases the risk of both suicide and homicide.

Keeping a gun in the home makes it 2.7 times more likely that someone will be a victim of homicide in your home (in almost all cases the victim is either related to or intimately acquainted with the murderer) and 4.8 times more likely that someone will commit suicide.

Guns make it more likely that a suicide attempt will be successful than if other means were used such as sleeping pills.”

See http://www.guninformation.org for more.

I think I’ll stay in Japan for the time being, where cun control is amongst the strictest in the world, and the homicide figures are but a fraction of the US’.

I can’t believe that people are actually supporting the notion that it’s a good idea to let folks walk around with guns for their own protection …what does that say about that society?

“Many in the pro-gun crowd have complained that gun-control is a limit to their freedoms. Political philosophers, however, have recognized that being part of a civilized society does not mean complete freedom. Such ideas would lead to anarchy.”

The NEJM article states: Conclusions The use of illicit drugs and a history of physical fights in the home are important risk factors for homicide in the home.

“The true measure of the protective benefits of guns are the lives saved, the injuries prevented, the medical costs saved, and the property protected . . . ” (Guns in the Medical Literature—A Failure of Peer Review, March 1994, Dr. Edgar A. Suter, writing in the Journal of the Medical Association of Georgia.)

The NEJM, like the Lancet, should stick to medicine and not social policy.

I think I’ll stay in Japan for the time being

Please do.

In any other country in the world (save those at war) a death toll of this scale would cause massive change in some way. Only in America, can you continue with your daily lives. The pro-gun lobby prints off it’s standard letter (this is a joke certainly in Europe) stating such nonsense as ‘Teachers should carry guns’. The anti-gun lobby swings another soft blow tragic in the knowledge that your grossly misinterpreted constitution will continue to allow morons to own weapons and psychopaths to have access to them.

When your constitution was written, free speech was a major issue. It is important to be able to voice criticism about the Government – this was not always possible. Free Speech was not intended to allow you to swear at grannies (at it’s worst, this is how it is interpreted). Allowing the populace to bear arms, was intended to allow you to fight the Government if they became dangerously corrupt and overpowering. The Right to Bear Arms was not intended to allow people to own vast arsenals of unheard weaponry in order to weild power over each other.

This constitution so many of you feel you are upholding…. in fact you are doing it a grossly insulting injustice.

Cho-mal: No one is interested in your euroweenie interpretation of our constitution. Once again, you, like your bud Cho, reveal your narcissim. No go back to your other forum where you harass the mothers of dead children.

Anon: ‘euroweenie’?
I take it under advisement to ask you where your
ancestry stems from. So, where does your ancestry stem from?

Thomas Paine is a hero of mine; he was largely involved in the shaping of your nation and when he was done, he went to France to help their revolution; he was unbound by territories, he fought for what was right and he was also an Englishman although he was truly a man of the world. Would you care to imagine what he envisioned for your presently mad, gun toting nation? Paine was a good friend of Thomas Jefferson who was of Welsh descent. What do you do when you deny U.S. heritage? We’re all on the same rock you dolt.

You seem unconcerned by this tragedy as you offer no practical solution for preventing similar incidents from re-occuring; which surely we all are certain they will!

Call for greater gun control in the U.S.A.

Oh, jeesh, not that Thomas Paine crap again!

You seem unconcerned by this tragedy as you offer no practical solution for preventing similar incidents from re-occuring; which surely we all are certain they will!

Here’s one solution: Stay in the UK. There are no differences between your psychotic rants and the rants of Cho.

You can’t just brush off the Thomas Paine argument and the fact that a great number of U.S. citizens are of European ancestry. It’s true many are proud of the fact. Most of your cities are named after European cities… all this to serve that dismissing my opinions as coming from a ‘Euroweenie’ is quite ridiculous.

You have still offered no practical solution. I suggest that Gun Laws are tightened so that people have limited access to guns.

The solution you offer leaves me in a country that will only lose out from your gun policy. The whole world has suffered from this awful episode; your promoting this deadly violence will cause it to spread. A few weeks ago, countless children had no concept that this kind of thing could happen; now, via U.S. gun policy, these children have it in their heads that this can happen, and maybe one of them might end up doing it for themselves.

Comparing my rants to Cho’s? Honestly, you do yourself no favours, you’re an embarrasment to yourself and to humanity as a whole. Educate yourself anon, activate that thing in your head that hurts when you try to push on the pull sign.

Cho-mal: Euroweenie is a common word in American english and you are a prime example of it. Euroweenie’s are characterized by their cowardice and irrelevance. Again, your continued whining about Thomas Paine is an example.

As to comparing your rants to Cho’s — yes, they are just as deranged. Anybody can read them. Thank you for showing your true colors. If I were you, I would worry more about riding the bus in Birmingham.

Anon: I fail to see where cowardice comes into this; except in your odd desire to own a gun, presumably because you fear something.

I have no particular desire to catch a bus in Birmingham. I have found myself wandering the Gorbals which is generally not a good idea. Thankfully they give you a sporting chance as knives (Chibs) are the weapon of choice. I am glad they don’t have many guns in our cities, although this is on the increase – it’s quite easy to ship them over from the U.S. among other rogue states.

I believe you should be more concerned about your own bizarre ravings. I’m interested to know if you own a gun… fancy progressing this some, weirdo?

Cho-mal: The only one ranting and raving about guns is you. Which, is secondary to your ranting and ravings about the US. You are condenscencing and contrary to your narcisstic belief, clearly have no understanding of our culture, politics, and history. You read Thomas Paine in high school and are stuck in a 200 year old rut. The more you try to expound on how much you think you know, the more stupid you look. Again, your anti-American rantings betray your mental instability.

Of the various true anti-northamerican ravings I have, I’ve basically stuck to your gun laws. I’ll repeat that at times when college kids are shot (that’s any, not neccessarily 32) then it’s time you did something. Nothing is done time and again; consequently more people die.

What is going to be done about your gun laws which clearly are to lax as it was ridiculously easy for this psychopath and others like him to get guns?
Anon, if you are trying to push me into a state of unballanced mentality, you’ll have a hard time. Your evident lack of education betrays you inexperience in this world and suggests that not one person should take you seriously.

Please anon, answer one question for me, can you do this? Do you want to own a gun?

Cho-mal, no one has to push you into a state of mental unbalance — you’re already there, as evidenced by your anti-American, narcisstic, Cho-like rants.

Ok anon, you are absolutely no good to any one. Assuming you support the pro-gun lobby, you do them no favours. You are quite immature, I don’t know whether this is due to your actual age or your mental age. Either way you offer nothing to this argument

Anyone supporting current U.S. gun legislation should feel guilty the next time anyone is shot in your country. I admit it’s a long road to travel yet, but you are not even taking the first step.

Please, for the sake of humanity, push for greater gun control! 32 dead students is not a thing to be forgotten; Columbine was not a thing to forget… what is next? It will happen again and many of you clearly couldn’t care less; making you almost as guilty as the perpetrators. Any shooting is unacceptable, 32 shot dead in a college is just unfathomable! It is pure madness, but what is worse is that so many of you, through your dumb ignorance, effectively create grounds for it to happen again. Please, for the sake of humanity, push for greater gun control – you have nothing to fear!

Another psychotic, narcisstic rant from Cho-mal. No surprise there. Note how everyone avoids you.

24 months ago in a small Minnesota town, a mentally unstable student murdered and wounded 14 students before killing himself (my April 2005 weblog posting http://www.invisiblechildren.org/weblog)

Jeff Weise also kept an outrageous website openly referencing homicide and suicide. Jeff was also denied treatment and prescribed Prozac*. After the carnage, Red Lake community found the money for a mental health family center to counsel troubled youth.

At that time in Minnesota there were 15 child psychiatrists in the entire state (population about 4 million) and the student to counsellor ratio in MN high schools was 900 to 1.

As a child advocate (long time guardian ad Litem) I strongly feel the need for mental health therapy for those who need it. The children I work with have been severely traumatized and need adequate attention paid to their needs.

In my many years as a guardian ad-Litem it has been my experience that at risk children don’t get help until after their behaviors have become unmanageable and dangerous. Often the help they get comes in the form of a pill and not the personal professional counselling that they really need.

A Hennepin county judge has shared with me the psychotropic drug medications being taken by children in her courtroom. It is truely unbelievable how many disturbed and undertreated youth walk among us.

When attention to mental health services comes earlier, our communities can save themselves from the immense suffering that follows these horrific events.

* Not too many years from now it is my hope that we will recognize the repercussions of legally drugging people (especially children) with psychotropic medications without adequate mental health services. Today we can only read about these consequences in the newspaper.