UPDATE: He’s dead.Â
On May 17, 1998, Johnny Ray Conner (23 at the time of his crime) entered a grocery store in Houston and brought a drink to the counter, as if to buy it. He then pointed a .32-caliber revolver at store owner Kathyanna Nguyen (49).
About that time, a customer — Julian Gutierrez — came into the store and heard someone say, “Give me all your money.†Gutierrez looked up from counting his own money to see a man pointing a gun at Nguyen’s chest.
When the robber saw Gutierrez, he turned and pointed the gun at him. Gutierrez dropped the money he was holding and ran from the store. As Gutierrez ran, the robber fired, wounding the customer. Hearing several more gunshots, Gutierrez turned to see the robber shoot Nguyen.
That robber was Johnny Ray Conner. Gutierrez clearly identified Conner as the person who shot both him and Nguyen. Of course Conner claims, “It wasn’t me!”.
On Wednesday, Conner will be executed for his crimes, and in so doing will become the 400th inmate executed by the State of Texas since reinstatement of the death penalty in 1976.
We all know how much anti-anything folks love grim milestones — so the anti-death penalty folks are rallying behind Conner. In fact, the European Union (EU) has sent Governor Rick Perry a message urging him to halt all executions and to establish a moratorium against all future capitol punishment.
Hopefully Governor Perry will tell the EU “thanks for your opinions” but “we don’t make laws in our country based on international opinion”.
Which is how it should be.
When Texans start letting Euros tell us how to run our state (or country) it’ll be a cold day in hell.
Especially when they are all a bunch of illiterate, lonely hearts, loons.
My edit didn’t take. I pointed out that a number of people went to the aid of the victims in this case. Compare the behavior of Texans to that of euroweenies in this article.
Compare the behavior of Texans to that of euroweenies.
Expecting a backward thinking state like Texas to acknoweldge the greater morality of somewhere like the UK is a little to much to ask I guess.
Jonny
Backward thinking state? You’re idiocy and lack of knowledge is staggering.
Texas:
There is more scientific, medical, and technological research, discovery, and advancement achieved in Texas each month than there is in the whole of Europe in an entire year.
But hey…ya’ll still have that whole “Royal Family” thing going for you. Way to hold onto your past.
London has Tower Bridge and Big Ben, a couple of masterpieces that people showing near genius ability managed to design and build.
On the other hand, the majority of the dumb asses that inhabit London probably can’t spell their own name.
Get my drift?
Jonny
My question is, have you repented and recieved the Lord Jesus Christ as your saviour?
Jesus who?
Jonny
Something to say about the EU?
Well, keep getting mortgages which you can’t afford, kill the health care system, keep searching for pregnant ballots, keep your gun laws.
And who’s illiterate? And from Texas? Thanks to Michael Moore the whole world knows..
I, Jacques, proud citizen of the EU! I don’t know why I say that ’cause I didn’t do anything to be born in The Netherlands, but it’s a common US phrase I believe, isn’t it?
And no, this isn’t my native language, that’s Dutch, as almost every EU citizen speaks at least 2 or 3 languages. So pretty please, with sugar on top, forgive me for any ‘illiterate mistakes’ – I’ll explain all in Dutch, German, Spanish or French if you want to.
Why I am against the Death Penalty? It’s simple, murdering 1 innocent prisoner is 1 to0 many. Yes, even if I or one of my family, relatives become a victim of a crime. Pragmatic principles, you know. Works for me though.
Jacques.
My question is, have you repented and recieved the Lord Jesus Christ as your saviour?
Me? I’m a confirmed agnostic. So, uh…no.
Thanks Jacques. I’m European too, French. Raised atheist and converted to Christian orthodoxy.
You may be a very different kind of man, but one thing is sure : you still remember what’s in our deep soul. Anything but evil can lead somebody to think killing a man, even a convinced criminal, is something right.
May God forget all of us, may He help those people finding inside themselves what’s left of the humanity they received once.
Stef,
You’re right. Even murdering a guilty criminal is totally unacceptable. That’s something from the dark ages, we (EU) didn’t know any better (??) but we are guilty of those crimes. We learned from it. Still people are released from prison (EU) after 10+ years (average time on death row) who turned out to be completely innocent.
Looks like the USA are still stuck somewhere in the dark ages.
I hope for a better world, I’m starting with myself.
Stick a fork in him. He’s done.
I ‘ope you fry like zee French Fry, No?
Funny Girl…
He was a lying pos to the very end. No surprise there.
August 22, 2007
Johnny Ray Conner was executed today at 6:20 PM Huntsville, Texas time. I believe the evidence of his actual innocence is overwhelming and persuasive and that the Fifth Circuit Court and the US Supreme Court are blind to justice. Those courts are a disgrace to American society.
The evidence of his guilt is based upon three eyewitnesses who identified Conner from a police photographic spread. One of those witnesses was shot by the killer, the other two saw someone running from the scene. Considering that eyewitness testimony is the single most unreliable source of evidence and the fact that police officers and prosecutors from Harris County, Texas are notorious for influencing identifications, this is not persuasive evidence of guilt.
The evidence of a fingerprint match taken from the mouth of a soda bottle found at the scene is also highly questionable evidence. The fingerprints of the hand holding the bottle did not match Conner. The Harris County fingerprint laboratory is notoriously unreliable, and there is an unanswered question about exactly where the bottle came from.
The trial lasted ONE day. That was only seven years ago. The death warrant was issued for an execution date only seven months after the Circuit Court denial and before the judgement became final. This case is an illegal rush to judgement and a rush to execution. It is not reasonable to expect an appeal of this gravity to be mounted in seven months time.
The Fifth Circuit Court reversal of the federal District Court call for a new trial was unreasonable and illogical. They claimed that since none of the eyewitnesses was ever asked whether the man they saw running from the scene had a noticeable limp, therefore it could not be assumed that he did not exhibit a limp just because they did say that he ran very fast. That is the court stretching reasoning beyond the limits of credulity in order to reach a predetermined, desired conclusion.
The US Supreme Court denial of the appeal for a stay is likewise due to the conservative court’s disposition against considering the requirements of justice over the value of preserving the trial court’s decision, even when there is substantial reason for doubting the fairness of that judgement. In a seven to two vote, they denied relief.
The execution of Johnny Ray Conner is a crime against humanity on several levels. First, because he is manifestly innocent of the crime. Second, because the courts considering his trial and appeals were all unfair. And third, because execution by a state is a crime against humanity. There is absolutely no viable justification for the death penalty in any case. It is not necessary nor effective as a deterrent to crime and is only an expression of the local society’s need for the blood vengeance as the ultimate sanction. The desire for Vengeance is a mental illness which would not be supported by a civil society. The state of Texas is the ultimate example of an uncivil, corrupt, and misguided society gone awry.
To consider any human life as forfeit for the crime of murder is to adopt the same lack of self-control that the murderer is guilty of. No life is useless. No life is impossible of redemption and rehabilitation. Some may be beyond our capacity to reform, but that is our failing, not the fault of the murderer. State sponsored execution/murder preserves the idea of murder as an approved expression of vengeance. A truly civil society instead, finds vengeance abhorrent.
First, he’s guilty as sin. Second, he was found guilty after a fair trial and the appellate court upheld the conviction. Third, execution for the crime of aggravated murder is not a crime.
People like you who are willing to lie out of your ass only win converts for the death penalty. Thanks, John! Couldn’t maintain the death penalty without people like you.
“Third, execution for the crime of aggravated murder is not a crime.”
Says who?
“Thanks, John! Couldn’t maintain the death penalty without people like you. “
Wishful thinking KMA.
Says who?
The U. S. Constitution.
Wishful thinking KMA.
Nope. Fact.
U.S. and Texas Law (and the U.S. Constitution) is made by humans, sometimes humans make mistakes (every day they need to change the law).
And about facts.. I strongly disagree because only the future will tell, can’t be a fact yet. And how about those states who don’t execute (murder in legal terms) prisoners.
So is european law. Let’s pray that you finally see the light, begin to value life (not that you euros ever really did, or do), and reinstate the death penalty.
And as to whether blatantly lying about the death penalty doesn’t win converts to the anti cause — you’ll just have to take my word on it. Or, not. Your opinions means nothing.
“You’re opinion means nothing.”
Well, don’t listen.
Nobody does.
Texas — 400
Euroweenies — 0
“Nobody does.”
Maybe you’re right but then again, maybe you’re not..
And that’s a fact.
Johnny Ray Conner — still dead. And that’s a verifiable fact.
Let’s just imagine that new evidence comes to light showing that another person, not Johnny Ray Connor, committed the murder.
What’s the State of Texas going to do about Johnny Ray Connor then?
I guess it’s not going to do anything, but then that’s sums up the State of Texas.
And before anyone replies that it’s impossible for new evidence to appear…………….well it’s appeared in other cases. Why is this one different?
Update: Hes daed
I bet your happy about that.
Wonder what they’re going to say about you after you die?
Texas tries its best to be The Hard State.
They want everybody to know DONT MESS WITH TEXAS.
If that man did kill that woman, He’s not suffering anymore in that jail cell.
So what does that say about executions?
They call them Euroweenies, but whos country is at war and loosing.
Oh, and one more thing, It’s a Texan who put them at war.
KMA: what’s this thing about “euroweenies.” Browsed through the article and it’s really not clear why this should indicate “European weeniness”
Anyways. I’m from Europe (Denmark – one of the most liberal countries) BUT I’m for capital punishment.. I ALSO travel the US some 2-4 times a year and I meet the iliterate (Texan
) and I meet the professor from Harvard. Point being – YOU are so different as a people and so are WE over here in weenieland 
People like KMA are the cause of the backwardness shown by states such as Texas. They don’t actually have a good arguement against anything you or the others on this thread have raised, so they sit in their baby cots (probably in full army uniform) and throw insults over the bars at anyone with a more reasoned debate.
This guy (KMA) doesn’t even know his own history.
The 8th ammendment of the US constitution states;
Amendment VIII
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.
This guy thinks the death penalty isn’t cruel.
I’m guessing if slavely hadn’t been outlawed in 1865, he’d still beleive in it because ‘The US Constitution says so!’.
Narrow minded followers, that’s all these people are.
Thank goodness for countries such as ours (the UK) and other educators of liberalism!
Jonny
…Oh and just a little observation to add:
Clearly you guys (US pple in this thread) are up in the middle of the night posting insults and generalisations. So to me it indicates that YOU do not have an important job function to attend tomorrow. So it’s pretty clear to what “end of the scale” you belong!
Cheeeeeers……………..
Henh…a resident of the UK commenting on crime and punishment in the U.S. is rich irony, indeed. So how’s that drunken ‘yob’ street crime, and rising violent crime rate working out for y’all?
Dallas, Tx resident here, up early drinking coffee, preparing for another day of work as a self-employed sole proprietor.
So many idiotic comments to get to, so little time.
As to the matter of the death penalty being legal or not, the answer is it is completely legal, and the residence of this state are solidly behind the use of the death penalty. Which means the opinions and derisive comments from across the pond, as well as from neighboring states, are just so much hot air.
Is the death penalty cruel or unusual punishment? I don’t think so, as it is a process clarified by the law. Mrs. Nguyen’s murder on the other hand, was completely cruel.
Some silly said something about President Bush putting us at war, and that we are losing. Well, actually, there were more than thirty nations that joined with the U.S. in removing the man that started the war, that person being Soddom Insane. At this point in time, sadly, the only area of the battle field that is being lost, is in Al Basra province…the U.K. area of operations.
All the claims of illegality and backwardness, and excessive statements of moral superiority are nonsense. It’s really quite simple, children. There are rules, if you want to live in our state, and if you want to test the limits of our rules, there will be consequences. Mr. Conner, who is no more…God Rest His Soul, is just the latest example of one who didn’t follow the rules, and he has suffered the consequences.
I would like to add, since the numerous amorally insensitive bloviaters on this thread haven’t bothered to, may the family of Mrs. Nguyen be at peace. Her senseless murder was obviously devastating to them, and hopefully the prosecution and execution of her murderer will, in some way, give them closure on that sad aspect of their lives.
Play that card why don’t you ‘No2Liberals’.
Whether anyone on death row is innocent or guilty, although an important issue, is second place to the fact that the actual killing of these ‘criminals’ by a state is barbaric and belongs in history.
People who disagree the death penalty, like me, are more often than not concerned soley with with victims of these crimes.
I agree that there are some lefties who seem to forget that there is a victim in these crimes at all, and I like you, haven’t got the energy to waste my time debating with people with views of that extreme.
What is nice about the country I live in ‘No2Liberals’ is the fact that gun crime is front page news, when it happens.
Today in Liverpool we have a poor child of 11 who was killed by, what looks like, an 18 year old with a gun. No this isn’t normal to us. This is headline news throughout this country as it is what we consider a very rare and sad crime.
I am happy to live in a country where that is still the case, as I see some states in America being just short as a free for all where guns are concerned. People get killed over there for looking at someone funny, and if it is reported, its pretty much 7th or 8th page news.
What amazes me is that your happy with that. You think you are doing the world a favour with your gun-ho attitude. You consider yourselves a leader and a given of freedom and democracy. You have no idea how funny that concept is to those viewing you from OUTSIDE your foxnews constraints.
Yes we [UK] have street crime, and I agree that a lot of it is alcohol fuelled, but people don’t kill each other over it!
What is the death penalty to you? A deterent? Well we did the right thing by getting rid of it and our homicide crime rate is a fraction of what yours is per capita.
Is it maybe a punishment? Well, got really argue there – I don’t think you can get a more fullfilled punishment than killing someone, that is, if they actually did the crime.
The death penalty is both cruel and unusual and your a fool for suggesting otherwise.
Jonny
…Oh and just a little observation to add:
Here’s one for you, tomas: My last post was 9 p.m. yesterday. The only people posting insults and generalizations in the middle of the night were euroweenies. Since, you are oblivious to the fact that the earth is round and divided into time zones, that tells us that YOU have a job that requires a very low IQ.
Cheers!
This guy (KMA) doesn’t even know his own history.
It is you who is ignorant of both American history and the US Constitution. Now, I wouldn’t expect you to be knowledgeable about either. But, I do expect you to know to stfu about the things that you embarrassingly know nothing about. The 5th Amendment specifically sanctions capital punishment and the courts have continually held that capital punishment is neither cruel nor unusual. Don’t like our laws? Then either keep the hell out of the US or at least don’t murder our citizens if you chose to visit. I prefer the former.
Kma, has it ever occured to you that you are really rude and uptight with anyone who does not agree with you. Your suggestion that euroweenies keep out of the US~didnt you know that you country thrives finacially on people like us coming there and spending all our money. Reminds me of the funny thing about the low number of americans that own a passport!! LMAO
Has it ever occurred to you how really cruel and disgusting you are by following around a family and repeatedly taunting them about the murder of their infant child? Have you no decency? No? Didn’t think so.
Jon, you are far too quick to label anyone the fool. Projection, mayhaps?
I read an intersting piece in your Observer this past weekend, by a British journalist, Andrew Anthony. It was in three parts, as exclusive extracts from his new book, The Day Reality Hit Home.
Here is one paragraph.
Empiricism and emotion are never more uncomfortable bed partners than in the matter of crime. Figures in Britain, for example, suggest that crime is going down but at the same time the chance of being a victim of crime appears to have gone up. Also crimes that directly affect people, the kinds of incidents that dramatically change our perception of danger, such as rape, street robberies and gun crime, have been increasing. In the 10 years between 1995 and 2005, serious woundings rose by 50 per cent in England and Wales. And it is estimated that up to 70 per cent of violent crime goes unreported. Perhaps this is because victims have little confidence in gaining justice, as the conviction rate for these crimes has been falling. According to Home Office figures for 2006, only 9.7 per cent of all ’serious woundings’ reported to the police led to a successful conviction. For robberies the figure is 8.9 per cent and for rape, it’s 5.5 per cent. In any case, few would dispute that there is an increased anxiety about crime and much of it, I think, is a reflection of waning communal relations, seen most starkly, but far from exclusively, between adults and youths.
As for me being an armed citizen, good guess. I do have a Concealed Handgun License, and I’ll tell you why. Because any law abiding citizen can obtain one after going through the process, I chose to carry because I can, and because I want to.
You, on the other hand you are not allowed by your government, therefore you can’t…legally.
That’s the difference between you and I, and your state and mine.
One of us is a citizen, while the other is a subject. It shouldn’t be too difficult for you to discern between the two.
As for capital punishment being so offensive to you, you must be terrified of the prospect of Sharia becoming the law of Eurabia.
Hahaha, no2liberals. I linked the same article in my initial comments in this very thread.
Oops!
Sorry, dude!
Great minds, and all that.
/well, kiss my…grits
Heh. Looks like Texas scares the hell out of the Europeans. I won’t tell ‘em about Floridians.
/Armed and dangerous.
The Europeans repeatedly fail to understand that the reason Texas (et al.) has a death penalty is because the voters want a death penalty.
Sweet. Except he must have choked on that “respect” part.
Oh dear KMA you are truely grabbing at staws here.
The 5th talks about the double jeopardy and, in any case you will hopefully acknowledge, is superseded by any draft therafter.
You really are pretty thick.
I guess People like me can’t argue a debate with people like you unless we get down on your level right?
No2Liberals, thats a pretty good quote there – but you seem to think we are all Observer or Guardian readers for some reason?
Yes, a UK representative wrote those words but that doesn’t mean I follow his train of thought.
You guys are SO retro its untrue to be honest.
In all fairness, you guys in Texas can carry on your unlwful killing if you so wish, it matters not a jot to us living a good life over here.
We only comment because we feel you guys need a wake up call.
And that, my illiterate friends is where we shall agree to disagree.
I can sleep at night without jacking off to the fact that another huan being has been killed by an historic law that you guys seem to feel so righteous.
I do indeed feel sorry for you folks. You are so sheltered it is untrue.
May YOUR god bless you.
Jonny
One question I have for you retards over there in Texas is how would you explain the innocent death of those who you feel so strongly perpetrated the crime to the victims of the innocent?
Who’s innocent?
Try these for starters you dumb wits!
David Keaton FL B 1971 1973 2 Charges Dismissed
2 Samuel A. Poole NC B 1973 1974 1 Charges Dismissed
3 Wilbert Lee FL B 1963 1975 12 Pardoned
4 Freddie Pitts FL B 1963 1975 12 Pardoned
5 James Creamer GA W 1973 1975 2 Charges Dismissed
6 Christopher Spicer NC B 1973 1975 2 Acquitted
7 Thomas Gladish NM W 1974 1976 2 Charges Dismissed
8 Richard Greer NM W 1974 1976 2 Charges Dismissed
9 Ronald Keine NM W 1974 1976 2 Charges Dismissed
10 Clarence Smith NM W 1974 1976 2 Charges Dismissed
11 Delbert Tibbs FL B 1974 1977 3 Charges Dismissed
12 Earl Charles GA B 1975 1978 3 Charges Dismissed
13 Jonathan Treadway AZ W 1975 1978 3 Acquitted
14 Gary Beeman OH W 1976 1979 3 Acquitted
15 Jerry Banks GA B 1975 1980 5 Charges Dismissed
16 Larry Hicks IN B 1978 1980 2 Acquitted
17 Charles Ray Giddens OK B 1978 1981 3 Charges Dismissed
18 Michael Linder SC W 1979 1981 2 Acquitted
19 Johnny Ross LA B 1975 1981 6 Charges Dismissed
20 Ernest (Shuhaa) Graham CA B 1976 1981 5 Acquitted
21 Annibal Jaramillo FL L 1981 1982 1 Charges Dismissed
22 Lawyer Johnson MA B 1971 1982 11 Charges Dismissed
23
Larry Fisher
MS
W
1984
1985
1
Acquitted
24 Anthony Brown FL B 1983 1986 3 Acquitted
25 Neil Ferber PA W 1982 1986 4 Charges Dismissed
26 Clifford Henry Bowen OK W 1981 1986 5 Charges Dismissed
27 Joseph Green Brown FL B 1974 1987 13 Charges Dismissed
28 Perry Cobb IL B 1979 1987 8 Acquitted
29 Darby (Williams) Tillis IL B 1979 1987 8 Acquitted
30
Vernon McManus TX W 1977 1987 10 Charges Dismissed
31 Anthony Ray Peek FL B 1978 1987 9 Acquitted
32 Juan Ramos FL L 1983 1987 4 Acquitted
33 Robert Wallace GA B 1980 1987 7 Acquitted
34 Richard Neal Jones OK W 1983 1987 4 Acquitted
35 Willie Brown FL B 1983 1988 5 Charges Dismissed
36 Larry Troy FL B 1983 1988 5 Charges Dismissed
37 Randall Dale Adams TX W 1977 1989 12 Charges Dismissed
38 Robert Cox FL W 1988 1989 1 Charges Dismissed
39 Timothy Hennis NC W 1986 1989 3 Acquitted
40
James Richardson FL B 1968 1989 21 Acquitted
41 Clarence Brandley TX B 1981 1990 9 Charges Dismissed
42 John C. Skelton TX W 1983 1990 7 Acquitted
43 Dale Johnston OH W 1984 1990 6 Charges Dismissed
44 Jimmy Lee Mathers AZ W 1987 1990 3 Acquitted
45 Gary Nelson GA B 1980 1991 11 Charges Dismissed
46 Bradley P. Scott FL W 1988 1991 3 Acquitted
47 Charles Smith IN B 1983 1991 8 Acquitted
48 Jay C. Smith PA W 1986 1992 6 Acquitted
49 Kirk Bloodsworth MD W 1984 1993 9 Charges Dismissed Yes
50
Federico M. Macias TX L 1984 1993 9 Charges Dismissed
51 Walter McMillian AL B 1988 1993 5 Charges Dismissed
52 Gregory R. Wilhoit OK W 1987 1993 6 Acquitted
53 James Robison AZ W 1977 1993 16 Acquitted
54 Muneer Deeb TX O 1985 1993 8 Acquitted
55 Andrew Golden FL W 1991 1994 3 Charges Dismissed
56 Adolph Munson OK B 1985 1995 10 Acquitted
57 Robert Charles Cruz AZ L 1981 1995 14 Acquitted
58 Rolando Cruz IL L 1985 1995 10 Acquitted Yes
59
Alejandro Hernandez IL L 1985 1995 10 Charges Dismissed Yes
60 Sabrina Butler MS B 1990 1995 5 Acquitted
61
Joseph Burrows
IL
W
1989
1996
7
Charges Dismissed
62 Verneal Jimerson IL B 1985 1996 11 Charges Dismissed Yes
63 Dennis Williams IL B 1979 1996 17 Charges Dismissed Yes
64 Roberto Miranda NV L 1982 1996 14 Charges Dismissed
65 Gary Gauger IL W 1993 1996 3 Charges Dismissed
66 Troy Lee Jones CA B 1982 1996 14 Charges Dismissed
67 Carl Lawson IL B 1990 1996 6 Acquitted
68 David Wayne Grannis AZ W 1991 1996 5 Charges Dismissed
69 Ricardo Aldape Guerra TX L 1982 1997 15 Charges Dismissed
70
Benjamin Harris WA B 1985 1997 12 Charges Dismissed
71 Robert Hayes FL B 1991 1997 6 Acquitted
72
Christopher McCrimmon
AZ
B
1993
1997
4
Acquitted
73 Randall Padgett AL W 1992 1997 5 Acquitted
74 James Bo Cochran AL B 1976 1997 21 Acquitted
75 Robert Lee Miller, Jr. OK B 1988 1998 10 Charges Dismissed Yes
76 Curtis Kyles LA B 1984 1998 14 Charges Dismissed
77 Shareef Cousin LA B 1996 1999 3 Charges Dismissed
78 Anthony Porter IL B 1983 1999 16 Charges Dismissed
79 Steven Smith IL B 1985 1999 14 Acquitted
80
Ronald Williamson OK W 1988 1999 11 Charges Dismissed Yes
81
Ronald Jones IL B 1989 1999 10 Charges Dismissed Yes
82 Clarence Dexter, Jr. MO W 1991 1999 8 Charges Dismissed
83 Warren Douglas Manning SC B 1989 1999 10 Acquitted
84 Alfred Rivera NC L 1997 1999 2 Charges Dismissed
85 Steve Manning IL W 1993 2000 7 Charges Dismissed
86 Eric Clemmons MO B 1987 2000 13 Acquitted
87 Joseph Nahume Green FL B 1993 2000 7 Charges Dismissed
88 Earl Washington VA B 1984 2000 16 Pardoned Yes
89 William Nieves PA L 1994 2000 6 Acquitted
90
Frank Lee Smith – died prior to exoneration FL
B
1986
2000 **
14
Charges Dismissed
Yes
91
Michael Graham
LA
W
1987
2000
13
Charges Dismissed
92 Albert Burrell LA W 1987 2000 13 Charges Dismissed
93 Oscar Lee Morris CA B 1983 2000 17 Charges Dismissed
94 Peter Limone MA W 1968 2001 33 Charges Dismissed
95 Gary Drinkard AL W 1995 2001 6 Charges Dismissed
96 Joaquin Jose Martinez FL L 1997 2001 4 Acquitted
97 Jeremy Sheets NE W 1997 2001 4 Charges Dismissed
98 Charles Fain ID W 1983 2001 18 Charges Dismissed Yes
99 Juan Roberto Melendez FL L 1984 2002 18 Charges Dismissed
100
Ray Krone AZ W 1992 2002 10 Charges Dismissed Yes
101
Thomas Kimbell, Jr. PA W 1998 2002 4 Acquitted
102 Larry Osborne KY W 1999 2002 3 Charges Dismissed
103 Aaron Patterson IL B 1986 2003 17 Pardoned
104 Madison Hobley IL B 1987 2003 16 Pardoned
105 Leroy Orange IL B 1984 2003 19 Pardoned
106 Stanley Howard IL B 1987 2003 16 Pardoned
107 Rudolph Holton FL B 1986 2003 16 Charges Dismissed
108 Lemuel Prion AZ W 1999 2003 4 Charges Dismissed
109 Wesley Quick AL W 1997 2003 6 Acquitted
110 John Thompson LA B 1985 2003 18 Acquitted
111 Timothy Howard OH B 1976 2003 26 Charges Dismissed
112 Gary Lamar James OH B 1976 2003 26 Charges Dismissed
113 Joseph Amrine MO B 1986 2003 17 Charges Dismissed
114 Nicholas Yarris PA W 1982 2003 21 Charges Dismissed Yes
115 Alan Gell NC W 1998 2004 6 Acquitted
116 Gordon Steidl IL W 1987 2004 17 Charges Dismissed
117 Laurence Adams MA B 1974 2004 30 Charges Dismissed
118 Dan L. Bright LA B 1996 2004 8 Charges Dismissed
119 Ryan Matthews LA B 1999 2004 5 Charges Dismissed Yes
120
Ernest Ray Willis
TX
W
1987
2004
17
Charges Dismissed
121
Derrick Jamison
OH
B
1985
2005
20
Charges Dismissed
122
Harold Wilson
PA
B
1989
2005
16
Acquitted
123
John Ballard FL
W
2003
2006
3
Acquitted
124
Curtis McCarty
OK
W
1986
2007
21
Charges Dismisses
Yes
You guys really need to get a passport!
Jonny
Not as thick as you, euroweenie. The Fifth Amendment refers to those held on capital crimes. The 8th Amendment is not “a subsequent draft” of the 5th Amendment and the 5th Amendment has not be superseded by anything. You have no idea how idiotic you sound. Did you pull that out of your ass? lol!
No, people like you can’t debate people like me unless you come up to my level, i.e., get an education, lose your arrogance, not lie, debate on what you know and not insist on what you don’t know, etc.
Who was executed?
kma writing my opinion on here is hardly following them around! I like ev eryone else on here had an opinion on the death penalty and i have just as much right as anyone else to say what i think. Now if people ask me questions i am going to answer them ! everyone has a choice KMA to read and write what they like. we all come on here and like most others i czant expect everyone to agree with me!
However i will say again if i was unsure about my feelings on the death penalty, i have had my mind made up just watching and observing peoples ideas and feelings that surround it.
So Kma either shut up or ignore me.
OMG Jon all those would have died and then they were found to be not guilty. well if that is correct how many others are sitting on death row not guilty of what they have been charged with. according to that it seems like there may be many of them. Backward texas! hmmmm
Fuck you, gnats. Don’t address me and then tell me to ignore you. You have harassed the Baughs relentlessly and taunted them about the murder of their baby son and grandson. I don’t know anyone, anti or pro, who doesn’t loath you for your foul behavior. The fact that you continue to harass them and have absolutely no shame about it is disgusting. There are plenty of people who oppose the death penalty but they don’t say the things you have to a grieving family and would never dream of doing so. So, go back under that rock you crawled out under from.
Texas or FL or the USA scares the hell out of Europeans?
Yeah, right. Keep on dreaming..
Been there, done that. FL, LA, SF. NYC, TX. Vegas. Dozens and dozens of times. The whole country looks and acts like Disney Land to me. You’re all actors I suppose.. (Gil Scott-Heron, B Movies)
Funny, owning gun makes you a citizen, and if you don’t own one you’re just a ’subject’. Think about it… Johnny Ray Conner owned at least one.
If it’s about ‘you can’ and ‘you can’t’ , don’t bother, you don’t know what freedom is since you left Europe..
Funny, if it’s legal to own a gun, why is it illegal to shoot someone? You can only use it for your own defence or shooting deer? And what if one of your kids finds it and wants to play with it? Or you mistakenly think your neighbour is a thief? Or you’re in a bar, getting drunk and wearing your piece? Shit happens you know.. All the time..
Jonny, I’m with you, but I’m not feeling sorry for these guys – they’re just hopeless Fox viewers.
KMA: At least someone in the US has some kind of education… Completed already? You dumb ass fool. Up (to) your(s) level, don’t make me laugh! Shoot me, ha!
According to Tomas people up in the middle of the night posting insults and generalizations do not have important jobs and are on the low end of the social and economic scale.
So, what time is it in France? 3 am? Merde!
kma
Henh.
Some serious smug clouds hanging over our illiterate posters from Eurabia.
It’s really quite simple, and I will try once more to explain it.
We don’t rely on the nanny state to protect us, we are self-reliant, confident citizens, that can take care of ourselves without any help.
We have laws. The laws reflect the wisdom and will of our populace. We have chosen to have a death penalty as a punishment for the worst criminals. There is a process that must be followed in trying someone, and a process of appeals that must be followed after the criminal has been convicted. During that period of time, new evidence and other factors can alter that verdict, such as the list produced above. When the process has been exhausted, the execution is carried out.
While you may not agree with capital punishment, let me remind you of a few things. You are not a citizen of our great state…thankfully. You did not serve on the jury, hear all of the testimony, look the defendant in the eyes, look the witnesses in the eyes, look at all of the evidence, or sit in the jury room, pondering the fate of another man’s life while deliberating.
This really isn’t about the execution of a man found guilty by twelve people, who’s judgement I trust more than some of the posters. It’s just an opportunity for some posters to express their insecurity, and try and impress others with how superior they are, culturally and morally. It has not had the desired effect.
The reason so few have passports in this country, isn’t what you think or pretend it to be. We have so much to see and do here, why go some place old and decaying?
Kma i said shut up, dont you get it? i am not prepared to discuss the Baughs i have said what i had to say about how i felt about the death penalty including current topical debates like the Cathy H case. it wAS TOPICAL AND UP FOR DEBATE ON HERE. so dont try to twist it in your usual sly way. oh and talkiing of crawling under stones! what kind of a life do you lead??? always on here? that is so sad. As i previously advised get yourself a boyfriend/girlie Kma and do everyone a favour. It will keep you out of trouble~
KMA, You’re not Jacques, that’s me. France? No, I’m from The Netherlands – but it’s now exactly 03.00 CET (GMT +1) and why I’m awake? I check…
Yeah. I get that you are an idiot thinking you can tell anyone what to do. Sad is harassing the family of a murdered baby. You stalk them from forum to forum saying the most vile things to them. Actually, it’s not sad but vile. You are a vile person who is fucked up in the head. No excuse. Like I said — antis and pros hate your guts.
Kma i said shut up and as for forum i dont believe i was rude in any in the forum but on here yes as i said i was asked questions and said what i thought. And am i bothered that ‘everybody hates me’? in short umm no! but i can see that you are there right beside me Miss unpopular. oh you must be a miss lmao
(a) It isn’t illegal to shoot somebody if they threaten you or invade your house. Unlike Europe, if somebody invades your house or business, you can shoot them dead. The police are good at investigating afterward, not so good at protection. In some areas of the country, the police may be a couple of hundred miles away. In my case, the police station is only 35 miles away.
(b) My kids learned how to shoot about the time they learned how to rise horses, before they were old enough to go to school. Every fall in the rural areas there are pictures in the paper of children about 6 years old, girls and boys, posing with their bucks.
(c) If my neighbor is in my house without my permission, then yeah, he/she will likely be shot.
(d) I don’t make it a habit of frequenting bars; however, carrying would probably be a good thing if I did.
Kma i said shut up . . .
Make me, skank. As to whether you were rude or not, the Baugh family has begged you to shut the fuck up about their baby and their family but you never pass up an opportunity to stick a hot poker in their hearts. That’s just the type of sorry excuse of a human being you are. Nobody asks you questions. Nobody cares what you think. You are border line retarded. Your ability to communicate in your native language is abysmal.
Whilst I will be the first to say our [UK] criminal punishment laws need to be A LOT tougher, I will also be the first to say how hypocritical you guys in Texas are.
You don’t agree with someone killing somebody so what do you do to prove your disagreement? You kill them. That makes a lot of sense!
The list I published above was a list of those lucky enough to have been freed after lenghty appeals. The idea that the jury should be trusted every time is laughable – they got it wrong on EVERY one of the cases above!
Those who are unfortunate enough not to have their appeals heard or don’t have enough money for a decent lawyer will suffer the ultimate penalty.
I acknowledge the quilty far outweigh those who are innocent, but it would be a bitch to be that innocent one wouldn’t it?
Lets hope its never you or someone you love being killed by a backward state for something they didn’t do.
Thank god for Texas I say – it proves to the rest of just how fucked up a place can become!
Jonny
Kma i said shut up. I am not going to play your game and begin talking about the Baughs. This is not about them so leave them out of it.
Wow, and you’re proud of it, no?
Well known US School Shootings
United States
* University of Texas at Austin massacre – Austin, Texas, United States; August 1, 1966
* Orangeburg Massacre – Orangeburg, South Carolina, United States; February 8, 1968
* Kent State shootings – Kent, Ohio, United States; May 4, 1970
* Jackson State killings – Jackson, Mississippi, United States; May 14-15, 1970
* California State University, Fullerton Library Massacre – Fullerton, California, United States; July 12, 1976
* Brenda Ann Spencer, Cleveland Elementary School – January 29, 1979
* Parkway South Junior High School shooting – Saint Louis, Missouri, United States; January 20, 1983
* Stockton massacre – Stockton, California, United States; January 17, 1989
* University of Iowa shooting – Iowa City, Iowa, United States; November 1, 1991
* Simon’s Rock College of Bard shooting – Great Barrington, Massachusetts, United States; December 14, 1992
* East Carter High School shooting – Grayson, Kentucky, United States; January 18, 1993
* O. Henry Middle School shooting – Austin, Texas, United States; February 5, 1995.
* Richland High School shooting – Lynnville, Tennessee, United States; November 15, 1995.
* Frontier Junior High shooting – Moses Lake, Washington, United States; February 2, 1996
* Pearl High School shooting, Pearl, Mississippi, United States; October 1, 1997
* Heath High School shooting, West Paducah, Kentucky, United States; December 1, 1997
* Jonesboro massacre – Jonesboro, Arkansas, United States; March 24, 1998
* Thurston High School shooting – Springfield, Oregon, United States; May 21, 1998
* Columbine High School massacre – Littleton, Colorado, United States; April 20, 1999
* Heritage High School shooting – Conyers, Georgia, United States; May 20, 1999
* Santana High School – Santee, California, United States; March 5, 2001
* Appalachian School of Law shooting – Grundy, Virginia, United States; January 16, 2002
* Rocori High School shootings – Cold Spring, Minnesota, United States; September 24, 2003
* Red Lake High School massacre – Red Lake, Minnesota, United States; March 21, 2005
* Campbell County High School – Jacksboro, Tennessee: November 8, 2005
* Platte Canyon High School shooting – Bailey, Colorado, United States; September 27, 2006
* Amish school shooting – Nickel Mines, Lancaster County, Pennsylvania, United States; October 2, 2006
* Weston High School shooting, Cazenovia, Wisconsin September 29, 2006
* Henry Foss High School – Tacoma, Washington, United States January 3, 2007
* Virginia Tech massacre – Blacksburg, Virginia, United States; April 16, 2007
My kids play with Lego.
Henh.
You must be proud, knowing you will raise a child that doesn’t know how to protect himself, in a dangerous world.
Oh, that’s right, it’s the governments responsibility, not yours.
It’s only dangerous because people walk around shooting people with easily attained guns – can’t you see that?
Jaques kids will probably go on to be architects whilst kids raised with your attitude will grow up knowing how to kill someone.
I know where I want to bring my kids up that’s for sure.
Jonny
You’re really funny no2liberals (not!). You’re nothing but a narrow minded individual.
My kids know how to defend themselves, as I do. In fact, like me they are not scared at all, they don’t need a weapon. And yeah, I’m very proud of them! They learn, they think, have their own opinioun and therefore they are.
Every day you send your kids to school you probably wonder, will they come back… scares the hell out of you, doesn’t it..
The only ones who are really scared shitless are the people owning a gun. They are the losers. So go figure..
I’m not scared of anybody, wherever I am, not even for the devil himself, with or without a gun..
Well, that’s working out real well for you there in the UK, isn’t it…subject Jon?
It is illustrative of your lack of self-respect, to think that just because one owns a gun, they are going to kill some one else.
I have owned a firearm since I was seven years old, and currently have over two dozen, and yet, to this day, have never committed a violent crime. I did, however, prevent one, and the attempted car-jacker, who had a knife, got shot in his a$$ for his trouble.
You have been so thoroughly conditioned into being a subject of the crown, that you have internalized it, and any desire to take responsibility for your own life, your families, or your community, has been lost with it.
I pity you, and those like you.
No, Jack, I have very few fears.
And if you perceive me to be narrow minded, it’s only because you are so open minded…that your grey matter has spilled out.
Did I already say you’re funny yes2liberals? I must have forgotten…
What? Are you serious when you type such crap?
It would be pretty hard for me to shoot someone without having a gun to do it with wouldn’t it? So I guess you are that one step closer, and a lot more able, to killing someone than I.
I don’t need a gun to have self respect thank you. I respect myself fully, and I also respect other people. I don’t feel threatened by anyone unlike yourself.
I pitty you in all fairness. It must be terrible having to live your life looking over your shoulder and having so much distrust in people.
Jonny
I’d be grateful if a pro-death penalty person would answer one simple question.
A person is tried, convicted and executed. Subsequent evidence shows that he/she was in fact innocent of the crime. What happens now?
Jon, yestoliberals ‘and friends’ don’t think any further then the length of their nose. That they are allowed to own a gun is kinda sick. It’s (and they are) just hopeless. Maybe they will understand simple things..
– I’m not scared so I do not need a gun
– If you need a gun you are scared why else do you need a gun.
It’s probably still hopeless because they just can’t understand simple logic.
(I only respect people without guns)
CPR?
I know, it’s not funny – but you’re completely right Wolf – That’s the major reason why I’m against the Death Penalty (anywhere in the world)
I’d be grateful if a pro-death penalty person would answer one simple question.
A person is tried, convicted and executed. Subsequent evidence shows that he/she was in fact innocent of the crime. What happens now?
Wolf — since the death penalty has been reinstated in the United States, not a single person who has been executed has been exonerated or later found innocent of the crimes for which they were executed.
You know — at the risk of every locking up an innocent man, we should never, ever lock anybody up in prison or jail ever again. It’s simply too cruel and unusual. Oh, and probably illegal anyway.
No system is fail proof or perfect. But that doesn’t mean you do nothing because of lack of a perfect system. However, our extensive appeals process has been perfect so far in only executing those who are guilty.
Wolf — since the death penalty has been reinstated in the United States, not a single person who has been executed has been exonerated or later found innocent of the crimes for which they were executed.
Simply because Texas won’t admit to it.
Unless you want to remain blind, you should look at the case of Ruben Cantu who’s co defedent has written a sworn affidavit that he allowed his friend to get framed and admits Cantu wasn’t even with him when he commited the crime.
Or maybe Cameron T Willingham who was executed for setting fire to his house, killing his three daughters. The evidence that lead to his death has been re-examined and proved to be faulty. If he was tried today, he would be found innocent – fact!
I could go on with myriad of others Robbie, but if you choose to ignore the facts, theres really nothing else I can do.
Any reasonable person wants to seek justice for those poor people who are affected by crime of this degree, however I think it is only reasonable to ask for an unbias and fair judicial system to do a better job than they are at this moment.
Killing innocent people is wrong, whether its the state thats doing it, or whether its a lone gunman.
Jonny
Saying someone is scared because they own a gun? You people are slooowwww and jealous. So, someone pulls a knife on you and demands your belongings — you just turn your belongings over to them? When is it that you pee your pants? Before you give them your stuff? While you give them your stuff? Or while they stab you anyway just because it’s their nature? At least you won’t be scared while their killing your ass your freaking idiots.
Wolf — since the death penalty has been reinstated in the United States, not a single person who has been executed has been exonerated or later found innocent of the crimes for which they were executed.
Other contributers have suggested that this is not true. In particular I have heard of USA cases where new evidence is inadmissable on some pretty spurious grounds. Certainly in UK DNA testing is becoming more and more advanced. Criminals who got away with it are being hounded down and, on occasion, innocent men are being released. It’s the last part of the sentence that is of concern in this debate.
You know — at the risk of every locking up an innocent man, we should never, ever lock anybody up in prison or jail ever again. It’s simply too cruel and unusual. Oh, and probably illegal anyway.
If you lock an innocent man away, there is the option of releasing him, should new evidence come to light. Some form of financial compensation can be made. It’s not a perfect solution, but it’s better than being dead.
Just because I’m anti-death penalty doesn’t mean that I’m pro-criminal. In particular I think UK sentences for violent crime are far too short.
I quite agree Wolf. Your 100% in every point you have just made.
I do find it funny that because we are anti-death penalty we are viewed as being in bed with the criminals – thats ridiculous.
My own personal view is that sentences are to short as you say, and punishment shouldn’t be for those over the age of 18 as it is now.
Commit a crime at 14 and your adult enough to face the consiquences.
I would like to see a modern day hard labour punishment where the criminal works for nothing and all ‘wages’ go to the victims family.
Like you say, at least they can be released if they are found to be innocent. It’s a bit difficult to dig up a dead man and say sorry!
I’d be interested in knowing peoples views on Kenneth Foster.
He was the getaway driver for Mauriceo Brown when the pair where out perpertrating a series of robbies. Brown killed Michael Lahood whilst Foster was sitting in the car. Brown admitted to it and has since been executed. Foster will die later this month – for sitting in a car clueless that Brown was commiting murder.
How can this be? “Law of parties,” a twist on a felony murder statute that enables a jury to convict a defendant who was not the primary actor in a crime. This can mean sentencing someone to death even if he or she had no proven role in a murder.
Why don’t you start killing people that look like the murderer? Or have the same name?
Laughable!
Jonny
Last month they reported the decision by this judge, Nancy Gertner of the Federal District Court in Boston, to award more than $100 million to four men whom the F.B.I. had framed for the 1965 murder of Edward Deegan, a local gangster. The award was to compensatie the men for the 30 years they spent in prison while agents withheld evidence that would have exonerated them and put the real killer — a valuable F.B.I. informant, by the name of Vincent Flemmi — behind bars.
Two of them died in Jail
Most coverage of the story described it as a bizarre exception in the history of law enforcement. But as we reported on Best Defense, this kind of behavior by those whose sworn duty it is to uphold the law is all too common. In state courts, where most death sentences are handed down, it occurs regularly.
Richard Moran, a professor of sociology and criminology at Mount Holyoke College, recently completed research for a study he will publish next year. He examined the 124 exonerations of death row inmates in the US from 1973 to 2007. The study indicates that 80 (or about two-thirds) of their wrongful convictions resulted not from good-faith mistakes or errors but from intentional, willful, or malicious prosecutions by criminal justice personnel.
This isn’t a game. It’s about you posting all over the internet disgusting messages about the Baughs and their murdered infant son, Brendon. You’re one real sick person.
Whoops! Sorry, Jacques. It’s caused by a glitch in the software.
Erm…..something weird going on here? KMA posting under other guises now? That’s mature.
Not suprising though.
Jonny
You’ve heard wrong. It’s the “new evidence” that is spurious and even if true would not change the verdict.
Also, both Cantu and Willingham were guilty.
Don’t worry “jonny” no one could ever be as immature as you. Your title is safe.
Really? All evidence now shows they would be cleared.
I’m glad you cleared that up KMA, you obviously know better than those close to the cases.
I think you just ‘want’ these people to be found guilty don’t you KMA?
Jonny
In particular I have heard of USA cases where new evidence is inadmissable on some pretty spurious grounds.
You’ve heard wrong. It’s the “new evidence†that is spurious and even if true would not change the verdict.
Also, both Cantu and Willingham were guilty.
I suggest you read the recent post by Jacques. What do you think of Judge Nancy Gertner?
Again, the same old suspects have been yammering about Cantu and Willingham for years. If anything, the latest investigations to falsely prove their innocence have revealed additional evidence of their guilt.
TimesOnline.
It’s a dangerous world, subject Jon. Hope is not a strategy.
Jack, to show how fully uninformed you are, our government doesn’t allow us to have rights, which means that is apparently your notion of a representative republic, based on democratic principles. Our constitution guarantees the protection of our rights enumerated in the Bill of Rights. Those rights cannot be abrogated by our government, without a constitutional amendment, and I can assure you, there will never be enough votes in this country to support such a foolish enterprise.
In my country, and most particularly my state, we have the option of being armed or not. You have no choice, your government views you as a subject, as well.
If you were my neighbor(shudder the thought), I would respect your right to not be armed, and would even post a sign in my front yard, in honor of your wishes.
Those facts don’t make it a dangerous world N2L.
We do have an issue over here at the moment that we are addressing head on. Like I say, any death by a gun makes headline news as it is abnormal. In America, it’s part of every day life – that’s the scary thing.
Jonny
Henh.
Subject Jon, you are a thick one, indeed. The world is, has been, and always will be, a dangerous place. Your not knowing that, would be truly scary to me, if you were my countryman.
That you are so afraid of an inanimate object is baffling. But like Sigmund Freud once said, “A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity.â€
Good luck with that.
KMA you been caught out there like a gooden! you see in a post a few months ago you called him Brendon when his name is not that! funny you made the same mistake under a diferent name LMAO
Correct, his name was Brandon. Therefore, my misspelling of his name makes your atrocious behavior toward his family okay in your little pea brain? You are a sick, sick, woman.
leave the baughs out of this KMA so you do go under a different name as i pointed out and get his name correct next time~very disrespectful kma
No, creep. You telling his family repeatedly to get over it and that babies die every day and that they are just seeking attention is disrespectful. In fact, it is pathological. You have no shame.
And now the personal insults start N2L.
I’m not actually afraid of a gun, its the idiot using it that worries me.
Do yourself a favour and stick to the topic in hand in future, personal insults from friends don’t bother me let alone a gun-ho retard over in the OK Coral!
Jonny
Henh.
So that one hit much too closely to home, eh…subject Jon?
If you can recall…or scroll, you began the insults by referring to me and my fellow Texans as retards. That you consider impugning people you don’t know, and at the same time demeaning people born with mental disabilities, not to be an insult, speaks volumes about your poor character.
Now that you have been beeyotch slapped, you want to stay on topic?
So that I understand you fully, you don’t want to own a gun because…you are an idiot? I appreciate your honesty, but you really need to work on your self-esteem.
Regards.
Here’s good news for the “inmates are innocent” crowd. A new cause celeb to blather about. Maybe you can save this one, get him released, come and visit you and your family, and let him baby sit your daughter(s).
John Couey Sentenced to Death For Murder of Jessica Lunsford.
And if any of you ever doubted that inmates are innocent, they all are, just ask them.
Adios.
I heard he likes to discuss the details of raping the little girl with other prisoners. That’s one of the many reasons to not keep guys like this alive — they sexually get off fantasizing and trading stories about their molestations and murders.
It’s because of human debris like Couey and Conner, that we have capital punishment.
In Couey’s case, his relatives should be strapped to the gurney, right beside him.
KMA, you familiar with the tale of sheep, wolves, and sheepdogs?
/woof
That’s for sure. Instead we are going to be subjected to lectures by euroweenies on how his sleazy family are victims, too. blah blah blah.
KMA, here’s a link forOn Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs.
If you aren’t familiar with it, you will enjoy it. Please share it with your friends.
On the Couey matter, if he isn’t guilty, then Hillary has slender thighs.
However, the agonizingly slow process is underway, with the automatic appeal first, then his low rent public defenders will try the “he’s mentally retarded” ploy. It is a slow and plodding process, but it works, even if it needs refinement…like an express lane to the gallows.
Thanks. I thought they tried to have him declared mentally retarded before the sentencing and the court ruled against him. I guess on appeal they can still challenge that finding. I wish he follows the father’s suggestion and act like a man and drop his appeals.
They did try, and they will most certainly try again in the appeal process, but he is in Florida, not some dhimmi state like Ca. or NY, so I fully expect the decision to be upheld.
As for Couey being a man, he has already demonstrated he is not, so expecting such a dramatic conversion now, is asking the impossible.
Have a good evening, and a great weekend. Off to dinner and a gathering of friends. Then, up early to the range. Several of my friends and I have some friendly competitive games we play. Such as double-tapping 3 by 5 index cards at fifteen feet. Just replaced the extractor on my 1911a1, and am looking forward to no stoppages.(and not buying them lunch)
Think I will take my .300WinMag with me. It is getting close to hunting season, and it has been sitting in the safe for far too long.
heart – ache.
“However, the agonizingly slow process is underway, with the automatic appeal first, then his low rent public defenders will try the “he’s mentally retarded†ploy. It is a slow and plodding process, but it works, even if it needs refinement…like an express lane to the gallows.”
That’s actually the genius of the American legal system. There are many appeals to allow all the evidence to be heard. And, as Jon’s list way upthread verifys, the system works. I don’t mind that it may take many years to kill this guy. The appeal system will ensure that every opportunity is taken to free this guy. And when we save Jon’s family member from the fate young Jessica suffered, I hope the gratitude he expresses will equal the disgust he now voices. Remember, while execution was originally conceived as a deterent, it’s real value is to assure that those who live can be assured that that particular monster can do no more harm.
And for Jacques…my, weren’t you feeling superior last night. Your generalizations of Americans are…..well, just that. My first language was not English, nor was it my second or third. I was born to American parents and I’ve had a passport since I was 4 (more than 40+ years now). I was born in Europe and spent a large part of my youth there. I now choose to speak only English because I can travel from one ocean to another and not need another language.
Today, John Evander Couey was sentenced to death. For those who dont know him, Google him and you will find out what he did to a sweet innocent 9 year old girl in Florida. I am against killing other people. I am a christian, but when there are monsters like John out there, they need to be executed. He buried this girl alive and let her die a painful slow, and lonely death. I hope this monster burns in hell for what he did. I would love to see him die a slow and lonely death as well. look at a picture of that sweet girl and tell yourself that John deserves to live for what he did to her.
Armybrat and other Texans: I do think Americans are stupid. Every single one of them and every single day they prove to me I’m right. Just go shooting each other with your stupid gun law. The more kills the better isn’t it? I and my family live a good life, with freedom of speech, no death penalty, good abortion laws, euthanasia is possible, hard drugs is forbidden but you can buy soft drugs anywhere (it’s less harmful then a glass of beer), We have the least hard drugs addicts in Europe. We pay 19% taxes on every Euro we spent, 52% annually if you have a high income, but at least 25% – Just see Schiphol Airport and compare it to JFK or LAX. Or to 5th avenue.. I really don’t want to discuss this any further with you. I pitty you.
I think we can all agree that monsters like this need to suffer the consequences of a just legal system. Just because we are against the death penalty doesn’t mean we want to see animals like this walk the streets.
To just pick you up on a couple of points N2L, the desire to own a gun makes you an idiot in my book so for me not wanting to go near one safely keeps me out of that camp.
Why but a gun unless you intend to do harm with it? Ok, you may choose to show your ’skills’ infront of your naked friends who all jerk off to you shooting matchboxes off fences but don’t pretend you haven’t fantasised about some criminal entering your house late at night.
I bet you’ve planned every detail of it.
I’ll make it clear, you and your retard friends (by the way, where I come from the term retard can be used for a myriad of mentally deficent illnesses, so I think it is quite apt here) are making this world dangerous by wanting to own guns. I do feel sorry for you if you do feel the need to arm yourself against your neighbour, but where I come from, we prefer to get on with each other.
I don’t walk out my door in the morning thinking, ‘I am gonna get shot today’ unlike yourself.
Like I say, it’s a good job your in Texas – at least we know your out of the way so you can’t harm any of us decent living folk.
Jonny
All that said, I think this video evidence shows how non retarded people can use guns sensibly without having a hard on and showing off in front of their mates. This guy expertly off loads a few rounds, double-tapping at 3 by 5 index cards from fifteen feet.
One must have blown away at the last minute and landed on his naked friends foot? Darn those 3 by 5 index cards!
(afterthought – does that look like Robbie?)
Jonny
It is a common misconception that anti-death penalty proponents are soft on criminals. I’ve said earlier in this forum that I’m in favour of longer and harder sentences.
John Evander Couey is a case in point. This man had a long and nasty record. In 1978 he was sentenced to 10 years in gaol (jail) for burglary and “fondling” a young girl in the house. I call “fondling” in those circumstances sexual assault. Despite being sentenced to 10 years in gaol he was released in 1980. Why?
At this point in time the legal system’s being pretty soft on this guy.
In 1991 there was another incident involving “fondling” a child.
In total there were 24 seperate arrests for indecent exposure, carrying a concealed weapon and burglary.
Maybe if this guy had been locked away Jessica Lunsford might still be alive.
I think the legal system let Jessica down and having the death penalty didn’t help poor Jessica.
It is a common and true perception that anti dp proponents are soft on criminals. The sentences for aggravated murder in countries who don’t have the dp is ridiculous. A life sentence is about 15 years or less. While they do impose the rare lwop sentence, the european union is activity trying to ban that on grounds it is cruel and usual. Additionally, there is an active movement in the US to ban life sentences. Also, in some faux demonstration of “aren’t I tough on crime,†antidp proponents propose solutions that are legally and constitutionally impossible to impose.
LOL! Jack, this is why I can’t take you seriously, and view you as a caricature of a human being…surely you are an aberration in your society. Do you even think about these things, or are you just reciting leftists drivel? Really, now think carefully about what you have said. Under no circumstances would you punish the worst criminals by death, you allow people to be killed if they so chose, but yet you have “good” abortion laws, so that you can legally murder the most innocent of innocents…unborn children? Dang, son, you are one twisted, effed up mofo. On top of that, you are convinced it is better for the citizens of your country to be disarmed, which means the only one’s in your country that are armed, are the criminals, police, and military.(?)
Oh yeah, you have much to be self-righteous about, and your calling someone else stupid is an indicator of your insecurity. Having someone like you call names is meaningless, because we have but to consider the source from whence it came.
Because, subject Jon, it’s better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it. But it doesn’t matter to you, because you can’t have one because ‘nanny’ says you can’t. You have all those CCTV cameras to look out for you.
Have you addressed your latency, or are you fully out of the closet?
As for the planning aspect, why yes I have a plan of action for home, and for when I am not. It’s called preparedness, because whatever happens I’m prepared. I don’t expect it to, and unlike your distorted view of crime in this country, it isn’t as prevalent as you imply. Also, unlike you, I don’t have my head in the grass like a good lil sheep, thinking that all men have good will toward one another.
By stating you live with decent folk, you are implying that we don’t.
Not only are you an idiotic, self-righteous oxygen thief, but you are arrogant about it, as well.
Good luck with that.
For information purposes, especially those unfamiliar with firearms, I will add a link for an instructional video, by a Frenchman for the AFP.
It will explain in the simplest terms possible, the very basics of firearms and their ammunition.
And here it is.
It is a common and true perception that anti dp proponents are soft on criminals.
With respect it is rather sweeping to state that all anti-death penalty proponents are soft on criminals. I, and others on this forum, have categorically given the opinion that many criminals deserve longer and harder sentences.
However, back to the case in point, John Couey, a truly evil man, was sentenced to 10 years in gaol and let out two years later.
To my mind that’s being pretty soft on the criminal and, if the legal system had been a bit harder on him, Jessica Lunsford might still be alive.
I didn’t say all, now did I? And with no due respect at all, the same people who are advocating for the banishment of lwop also insist they are tough on crime. Again, stating that you and others think that criminals deserve longer and harder sentences does not make it legally and constitutionally possible.
As to getting back to the case in point, that would be Johnny Ray Conner. Word has it he is still dead.
hmmmm, Jacques. Now ya’ see… I wrote a nice little post and disputed your view of Americans without even calling you a name. That’s how an adult has discourse. But for one brief moment, I will allow myself to stoop to your level. If it weren’t for stupid Americans, your native language would be german. That is of course, supposing that the third reich didn’t come after your family after it finished murdering every Jew in europe. Ya’ll love us gun toting yanks when we’re saving your asses!
Americans…protecting the world by riding the world of dictators and fascists since our nation’s inception.
Wolf, with all due respect, as a citizen of Texas, we here have had these debates among ourselves for many years. When the Supreme Court of the United States(SCOTUS) ruled in the 70’s, after years of contentious national debate, that the death penalty was legal, within certain guidelines, then the individual states took up their own internal debates and reviews. A large percentage of our population decided we wanted to resume the practice. No voice from outside our state, and most certainly not from outside our nation, need say anything other than they disagree. We still have opponents of the death penalty, and they can have their say, but they are in the minority.
To say that an individual could be wrongly accused, convicted, and executed, is a hypothetical that is always considered. Which is why every opportunity to prevent a miscarriage of justice is applied. If you haven’t, scroll all the way up to a post KMA made, near the start of this thread, click on the hyperlink that says Texas, and review the full text on Conner’s various appeals and reviews, at both the state and federal level, and then decide for yourself, if Conner was availed every opportunity to have his case overturned.
As for wise counsel, in the matter of how our state conducts it’s justice system, I will always rely on the judgement and wisdom of the citizens of Texas, above all others.
An article from a brilliant writer and commentator in the U.S., concerning crime.
Walter Williams.
Here is a link that might help any Euroweenie understand the importance of an armed society. Though, libtard skulls can be difficult to penetrate. Nevertheless, if you can read, all hope is not lost.
I’m afraid all is lost on you guys, you’re making it painfully obvious without us having to say a word.
I do like your humour N2L, I have to say I have raised a smile or two reading your comments toward me.
Luckily, I don’t take things personal, and I respect your right to call me every name under the sun – it’s kinda funny.
Your way of the mark, but I understand your need to try and pull the rug so to speak.
I do find it funny when I hear Americans telling Europeans that they saved our ass in the second world war. Yes, you did indeed help us out, but only after 4 years of a Nazi dictorship that killed millions of jews did you feel the need to step in.
In all fairness, we where no better!
ACTION:Nazi’s invade Poland………
REACTION:Where’s Poland?
ACTION: Nazi’s work there way into France…….
REACTION: Stop it! That’s really not tennis!
ACTION: Nazi’s threaten the advance over the English Channel
REACTION: Oh, now your attacking us are you? Someone call America!
If Hitler hadn’t been such a megalomaniac to think he could touch British soil, you guys wouldn’t even have entered the war (and nor would we). The fact that millions of Jews died has nothing to do with the reasons we went to war so it is hilarious to think you guys portray yourselfs as righteous and peace giving.
You only stick your noses in when you have an interest to make a few bucks.
Obviously off topic, but that had to be said.
And also, you do know that those white folks posting on here are mainly alive because the British ‘invaded’ your native country don’t you? We are mostly all celts so really, in blood, we aren’t that different from each other.
The main difference is, you guys (sorry, Ya’ll) over there in Texas have learnt to form an opposing thesis to Darwins theory of evolution – in fact, your so darn good at it, that you have done a Marty McFly and gone back in time.
We on the other hand have been able to progress into a system that realises killing people is wrong – pure and simple.
Jonny
Are you missing the point here N2L? I don’t need a gun. I will never need a gun. I live in a country where guns are outlawed.
I will only need a gun if someone in our government starts taking notes of how Texans run their troublesome lives.
That’s never gonna happen.
Ergo no gun needed thank you very much.
And I still pitty the fact that you live your life with a gun under your matress as you fear it is possible, infact probable, that someone will enter your home to try and hurt you.
You really need to take your blinkers off and understand that better countries, such as the UK, don’t have this fear.
Aegrescit medendo comes to mind!
Your remedy sucks! 
Jonny
And the first paragraph is:
Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force. If you want me to do something for you, you have a choice of either convincing me via argument, or force me to do your bidding under threat of force. Every human interaction falls into one of those two categories, without exception. Reason or force, that’s it.
I love texans! They’re so cute!
To correct the above text, the words ‘Human Beings’ need to be swapped with ‘Gun-ho Texans – Ye ha!’.
Human beings actually have a third way to deal with each other. Do you know what that is boys and girls? It’s called tolerance.
Can you spell that for me? T-O-L-E-R-A-N-C-E.
Now tolerance means that just because you don’t agree with someone, you don’t only have the options to reason with them or shoot them in the face. You can use tolerance to realise that other people have just as much right to express their own opions, cultures and religions than you do.
Just because you don’t understand something doesn’t mean it is wrong.
Tomorrow, we will be learning all about why people in Texas are soon to be locked away in museums!
Jonny
We on the other hand have been able to progress into a system that realises killing people is wrong – pure and simple.
Jonny
Exactly what do you think euthanasia and abortion are? Yet, as you commented above, you have no qualms with killing the sick, elderly, disabled, and the unborn. So Jonny girl, it’s only murdering thugs that you take issue with being executed? Typical libtard mentality. I swear, I wouldn’t believe your hypocrisy if I didn’t read it myself. How can anyone be so asinine? You might want to check the labels on your soft drugs dude, because I think you have to be losing brain cells by the second, and trust me, you’ve got none to spare.
Oh, and not that there’s anything wrong with it, but I’m no Texan.
Oh my, subject Jonny.
You obviously aren’t a student of U.S. history involving WWII.
This really isn’t the proper forum for your education, so I will leave you to your blissful ignorance, and false assumptions.
Jon, I’m trying to direct you to the point(s). You don’t want a gun because you are a sheep, and you can’t have one anyway, because your government has taken that right away from you, making you an unarmed subject. Yes, guns are outlawed in your country, that’s why the outlaws are arming themselves. But…hey, if it’s cool with you, that your government doesn’t trust a decent, law abiding citizen to be armed, in the event of a disaster or national emergency, then it’s certainly cool with me. Just keep your self-righteousness to yourself. We view the subject differently, though there are many sheep in this country too. This country has never been invaded by an enemy force, other than by the fool King George and his red-coats. Of course, we all know how that turned out. But lo and behold, we became great allies, friends, and trading partners, over time. Despite our many differences, I still believe our two nations are friends and partners.
I think the point of this entire exercise is, I really don’t care how you live your lives on that island. Whatever you folks want to do, is perfectly fine with me. I expect the same courtesy. If you chose to lecture us on our behavior, folkways or mores, don’t expect that I or many of us will sit quietly by, without responding in kind.
If you believe your country is somehow better than ours because of some delusion you possess of cultural or moral superiority, that’s cool, go on believing that. Just know that it is your construct, and not a view shared by others.
I just find it amazing how the country that once produced Winston Churchill, a giant among mortal man, could now produce such a collection of men who don’t even recognize the threats that exist in this world. Even Lord Chamberlain was able to see the light, after his misguided appeasement policies with a monster, and worked to save Great Britain from destruction.
Good luck with the whole Londonistan thing, too.
Wait…what?
Subject Jon is now informing us he is tolerant of other people?
Oh my, that is one for ages.
Jon, do you do two shows on Saturday nights, with the second one being kind of blue.
LOLLOLOLOLOLOL!!!
/try the veal…hahahaha
Hypocrite. Can you spell that for me? H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-T-E. Good boy!
You’re so called tolerance only extends to those who agree with you. Nobody is trolling UK blogs demanding that you reinstate the death penalty. But here you are stamping your little foot and demanding we change our laws and beliefs to suit you, otherwise — what? you’ll have another tantrum and call us names? Bwahhhhh!
Oh sorry Jonny, you might not approve of euthanasia and abortion like Jack does. Really, not that I agree with it, but I can respect people who are against killing people across the board. When someone thinks the death penalty, abortion, and euthanasia are all wrong, at least they are being somewhat consistent. The distinguishing factor for me is that when you murder an innocent person, capital punishment is justice for you.
Oh, and Jon, in alio pediculum, in te ricinum non vides.
As for Jack, I almost forgot about his statement that they have freedom of speech in the Netherlands. Maybe we should ask Theo Van Gogh and Pim Fortuyn about that.
/oh…right
Er….no. Don’t worry, I know reading is a little hard for you guys, but if you took the time, you’d realise I have never said I agree with “killing sick, elderly, disabled, and the unborn”.
Thanks for playing though!
Jonny
You mean ‘your’ country that you nicked from those who actually lived there before? You have a ridiculously tiny history unless you wish to share ours, although I’d ather you didn’t.
A very clever sheep though you have to admit – I mean, using a coumpter and all with these cloven hooves!
Now a sheep with a gun, that would be something!
Yes, it’s called debate – its what us Euroweenies do over here. Good innit! And we can debate without having to shoot someone in the face! It gets better!
This is where I have to let you know just how your particular state is viewed by the rest of us – including many of your fellow Americans I may point out. The worlds a pretty big place you know, more than just this ‘tiny Island’ I live on. Mention Texas to anyone who isn’t a Texan and you get pretty much the same response. And after they have composed themselves, they usually move onto something a little worthwhile of their energy.
No, I recognise a threat when I see it. More often than not a threat can be recognised as a mad man with a gun……………i’ll leav it there!
I wouldn’t say I was ‘demanding’ you get rid of the out of date death penalty, I’m just sharing an opinion. That allowed on here?
Coming from anyone else KMA, i’d probably listen to that point.
Appology accepted. And I in turn appologise for commenting that you can’t read. It is a shame however that you show such vigour toward someone and then have to recant as you make a mistake.
Isn’t google great!
Jonny
Yes, google is great, assuming you used it to discover what I said.
Henh, yes this country, the one that a group of entrepreneurs began, that King George tried to abscond with, and had his foolish hands smitten by a bunch of freedom loving individuals. Which inspired more freedom loving individuals, from all over the world, to join us in this grand experiment, of being self-governed citizens, and not unarmed peasants told what to do by tyrants.
If you believe you have been debating, then you better google up a dictionary. The basis for debate is that each party begins with the premise that respect will be extended. You’ve been nothing but disrespectful, and you’ ve been shown little, in return.
Henh. Yeah, right lil sheep, the whole world hates Texas, and even if that were true, we wouldn’t have a care about it. I’ll ask my friends, the former Brits, that moved here twelve years ago, if they will remain in their gorgeous custom built home and well paying job, with very low taxes, if they are going to sell their belongings, including their Corvette, and move back to Londonistan, because a self-righteous dandy from the UK says they hate it here so badly. Or my friend that lives in Florida, that is now a naturalized citizen, who still blames the NHS for his father’s death…don’t think he’s ever going back to that little island across the pond. I also find your foolish observation laughable, because one of my favorite songs about Texas was recorded by a Brit.
So bury your tiny head in the grass, lil sheep, your yobs, mohameddans, and nanny-state will be coming by soon, to be randy with you, since you love it so.
Having read through that last post N2L, and having re-read a few of your previous posts I really only have one thing to say….
……you like Chris Rea? God! It’s worse than I thought!
Jonny
And just to help you out, I think the song you where trying to link to, that Chris Rea wrote about Texas was this one.
Jonny
No2Liberals wrote
The basis for debate is that each party begins with the premise that respect will be extended.
I agree with this premise.
Fair enough point Wolf, however the hostility and total disrespect shown by some of the rednecks on here since I commented on my first ever post was pretty unbelievable to say the least.
I was beginning to think that is how these people talk to each other – just trying to fit in I guess!
Jonny
Thank you, Wolf.
Jon, in the event your scroll wheel isn’t working, your very first post was derisive, disrespectful, insulting, and self-righteous. Face it, that is who you are. No shame in admitting it to yourself, and others. Just be honest, and don’t play the poor victim.
/pathetic
I have posted about other topics N2L before you showed up and that is what my last comment was regarding.
It is understandable that people who feel very strongly about war and the death penalty with argue the point, however it was suprising to see such name calling start at such an early stage.
It’s the first time I’ve ever been called a EuroWeenie – and to be honest, the first time I even considered myself to be European!.
Like you said yourself, disrespect people and be willing to take the flack. Well the amount of abuse I walked into a few months ago from simply posting my opinion about a subject close to my heart.
Therfore, I am only responding to what I thought was normal for this particular blog.
Agree with a right wing redneck agenda or get called every name under the sun – that is what this place is isn’t it?
(I haven’t got a scroll wheel by the way – I’m use Macs, far superio in everyway way!)
Jonny
Yep, I’m pro abortion, I think It’s a woman’s right to decide. The number of abortions in the US is 3 times higher(%, per 1000) – with our laws more people think first (use birth control), then act.
The days Pim Fortuyn and Theo van Gogh were murdered were black days in our history. But we did learn (re-learn) a lesson – for us freedom of speech now is even more important than it ever was. No one on this planet tells us what we can or can’t say. If you googled those two, Google “Ayaan Hirschi Ali“, “Submission” and “Geert Wilders”
Good thing is, the killers are behind bars.
Who shot Mr. King and crippled Larry Flint? JFK? – just three examples.
Wanna see hypocrisy live in action? Take a good look at the nipple of Janet Jackson. That’s hypocrite.
About US history: your history books are censored. You really need to go to a library in Europe to read what actually has happened. Besides censored school books, your government is lying to you as well.
But the one with the biggest gun is always right? Isn’t it?
So you live a happy and a safe life over there. Hope your daughter uses protection when she loses her virginity at the age of 14 or when she gets raped by a sicko with a gun…
One last thing about guns;
Video: Mama shooting her baby
Are you mad? Have you completely lost your mind?
Jon, I have no knowlege of your previous posts on this blog, I am referring to your first post on this thread. If it, and your subsequent comments are any indication, I’m not surprised by the reactions you have gotten.
Jack is back, and he’s…Jack.
I’m very familiar with the, now U.S. resident, Ayaan Hirsch Ali. Yep, her freedom of speech was certainly protected by your citizens.
I never looked at Janet’s breast, what does that have to do with hypocrisy?
Our history books are censored? How, pray tell, did you arrive at that conclusion? If so, who’s to say yours aren’t? My government is lying to me? Does that mean you are the repository of all truth and knowledge? I am not that gullible.
No, the biggest gun doesn’t mean the difference, it’s the quality of gun, the mind set of the gun owner, and of course the freedom to chose if one wants to own one or not, but then, you don’t have that freedom, do you?
Yep, I sure do live a happy, safe, and productive life. Daughters are all fine and in good health, economy is booming, criminals are being arrested and prosecuted, and murderers are being given the justice they never allowed their victims. I agree that a mother murdering her own child is sick, that she used a gun doesn’t matter, it was her insanity or murderous intent that is the problem.
Now, this is where my view of you as a caricature comes in. In your society, drugs are legal, prostitution is legal, euthanasia is legal, abortion is praised, and yet you won’t punish the worst of the criminals in your society with the death penalty.
And you question my sanity?
Agree with a right wing redneck agenda or get called every name under the sun – that is what this place is isn’t it?
More, “wah wah wah I’m a victim!†Get over yourself. Your posts from the get go were arrogant, factually wrong, illogical, and insulting. Anyone who did try to have a civil conversation with you soon regretted it.
No one on this planet tells us what we can or can’t say.
Yeah, that’s why Ayann Hirschi Ali had to flee your country for her own safety. And where did she go? To the USA, of course.
Are you mad? Have you completely lost your mind?
Since you believe all the nonsense you just posted and appear to be lashing out wildly and irrationally at people who don’t agree with you, I would say you are mad and have completely lost your mind. Jeesh — get help.
Henh!
Morning KMA!
Ain’t freedom great? So great in fact, that in two days, the National Exercise Your Rights Day will be celebrated.
It takes a real “sicko” to hope someone’s daughter is raped period. Also, I guess you never heard of a woman/girl raped by threat of a knife or just physical threats. Again, that you would wish such a vile act on anyone, is pathological.
As opposed to you, who lacks the character to recant?
Good morning, no2liberals. I should probably exercise my right not to read and respond to such crass comments by the euroweenies. It’s amazing that they think they have the right to tell us what are laws should be and then go batshit crazy when we dare to say no. What feelings of impotence they must suffer from!
The euroweenies will be going wild this week — Texas has three executions scheduled.
kma, Ayaan fled? Furthermore who was protecting her in the US?
n2l:
These things don’t happen in the US right? Right, we do much better with our laws. Let me be a caricature with better results. And yes, I’ll keep questioning you sanity.
But it’s still all about guns. What happened to reason?
And n2l if there’s a 50mph speed limit, you still can drive much faster can’t you? I can buy a gun if I want to, but I don’t and I’m happy they are forbidden here. (So much for my ‘prisoner ship)
So, even insane people can buy guns in the US? Terrifies me. Maybe even I can get one.. Do you have them without the steel bullets but with water? I want a red one. With the American flag on it. (oops, I’m talking about the flag, better watch what you say Jacques or else..)
It’s so simple: if there were not that many guns, there would be far less gun related killings.
You didn’t watch te video, the baby isn’t dead, but hey, I would reinstate the dp for the mother and her friends (I’m joking..)
And please keep searching for those WMD , maybe you’ll find them.
About censor, One nation under Darwin just doesn’t sounds right.
Janet’s Boob & Justin Timberlake – Super Bowl and the commentary – that’s hypocrite. Do you have TV, news papers or electricity in Texas? Or are you still Yee-haw’ing on a horse. The Native Americans are pretty dead, so now you’re shooting each other..
kma: I’d rather be mad than a Texan
How’s that for a bumper sticker!
Three, eh?
May justice be served, and may God Rest Their Souls.
My sympathies have always, and will always remain with the victims, their families, and to the families of the condemned, that may have not been a party to that persons criminal behavior.
What are the periods of imprisonment, from the date they were convicted, until their date with the gallows? If you know, or if the info is readily available, it would be interesting to know. Mr. Conner’s delay was not typical, as ten years is quite a bit shorter than most.
kma you really should make a start to learn to read.
Let me help you, Lesson one:
the alphabet:
abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz
I do not hope anyone gets raped. When a girl gets raped I hope she is using the birth control pill or has the time to use a condom, probably not but my statement was about abortion and a woman’s right to decide.
Oh man, I’m really enjoying this – it’s better than a day at the zoo.
Specially this:
Are you guys for real? The more guns the better, no? Oh man – I’ve to book a flight to the US on that day (and don’t forget to take my camera).
It’s in 25 cities… Question: Also one (or more) in Texas? I would really like to attend one. If in Texas I’ve to book a couple of days earlier. You’ll recognize me wearing a t-shirt with a big Dutch flag (red, white and blue) and a red water pistol. Maybe I even can demonstrate against the unnecessary murdering of prisoners at the same time. Three somebody said.
Oh, and if you wanna shoot me, do not do it in Texas (don’t mess with Texas). You probably get the dp. Shoot me in Holland – you’ll do 8 to 20 years, if it’s your first kill. Maybe life if you already proudly shot someone.
Fun, ain’t it?
Henh, it’s Jack again.
You are quickly unraveling. I would be very surprised if my comments had anything to do with your mental state.
Yes, those things do occur in the U.S., and they are illegal, because we haven’t given up in the face of crime and low moral standards, and changed our laws to satisfy the whims of weak willed people.
What happened to reason? That’s a good question for you to ask yourself.
The rest in no particular order, as your leftists echolalia is evident.
If there were fewer guns, there might be fewer gun related deaths, but no guarantee there would be fewer murders. Would more decent citizens be denied the opportunity to defend themselves against an armed bigger, stronger, and younger attacker? Most definitely. Guns are tools, and are to be used responsibly, but you would have to know of such adult decisions first. A knife is a tool, as well. Are there no knife related crimes in your country? Don’t bother.
Nope, didn’t watch the video. Did you bother to read the links, I and others provided? Didn’t think so.
TV? Of course, several, and the main one has a surround sound system. I don’t care for the NFL, it’s too Hollywood for my taste. I love real football, played at the high school and collegiate level, so nope, missed out on the halftime controversy. Heard and read about it, but never clicked on the image to see the breast of an attention seeking Hollyweird type. Some were offended, some weren’t, and it was discussed ad nauseum. What’s the point?
What are you talking about, in regards to Darwin? You make no sense in your ranting. Try and have a coherent thought when you try and make an insult…if that is what you were trying to do, I can’t tell.
As for the WMD, well, I’ll tell you what, since the things they have found don’t trouble you, then it would be okay with you, if we buried them in your backyard…okay? If we get the opportunity, and I can only wish it would come true, that we could go into Syria and recover the things that Saddam(who is dead, don’t you know) had smuggled out. See, your echolalia about WMD being the reason we invaded Iraq, and the only reason, is just sad. If you had ever bothered to research it on your own, you would find, that in President Bush’s speech to the UN, which unanimously voted for sixteen sanctions against Saddam(who is dead), the WMD was the fourth item he was speaking of, not the one and only.
I know you would like me to say, that we could only hope to be as perfect as you, and our country as perfect as yours, but all I can think of is…SUX TO BE YOU!
That you miss the whole point in the National Exercise Your Rights Day doesn’t surprise me, Jack.
Better book that flight quick, though, or didn’t you notice the date?
It might be the day I finally get this little item, but it will have to be on sale, and I will need another gun safe…my current one is stuffed.
May justice be served, and may God Rest Their Souls.
What about justice will be served? May? Oops, sorry, you were innocent but now dead. Hey, but I’ll pray for you in Church. And when I meet our maker, I’ll do the time.
I hear some doubts here.. First small steps for mankind, err sorry, n2l to become an anti dp fighter. Welcome y2l!
Doubt? Wishful thinking on your part, but no doubt on my part.
How many examples, without any equivocation, can you site, that an innocent man has ever been executed in this state? Take as much time as you need. As for if or maybe, an innocent man is executed. If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, we all would have a Merry Christmas.
Leave any further incoherent ramblings, as it pleases you Jack.
I will address them much later on. Time to mount the gixxer and ride.
Didn’t miss the whole point: the more guns the better and looking at Model 82A1/M107 you want to buy… the more the bigger the better. Freedom to exercise your rights (with guns) is just bs to me, specially on that day and like the pro gun nfl demo at Columbine, it shows no respect for the victims .
If it’s for protection, why need more than 1 or 2.
No guarantee he? Who told you that? kma? But I know, that’s the standard rhetoric, but it doesn’t make it true.
Oh, and about sucking.. I really would love to be you!
If and maybe’s are for me the main reason to be against the dp. That’s what makes me a better person.
kma, Ayaan fled? Furthermore who was protecting her in the US?
Yes, she did. After there was an unsuccessful attempt to strip her of citizenship and she lost her housing because the Dutch are too afraid of muslims.
kma: I’d rather be mad than a Texan
Well, you got your wish. Yet, you continue to be a miserable person.
I do not hope anyone gets raped.
It’s obvious what you were implying. It was a sick and vulgar comment.
No2Libs: Notice how difficult it is for Jack to stay focused on the subject instead of interjecting everything and the kitchen sink into the thread? He either realizes he is losing and throwing everything he’s got to see if anything will stick or he is mentally ill.
That’s quite an admission, after all that you have said.
Now I understand.
KMA, given your choices, I vote the latter.
Later dudes and dudettes.
Happy christmas everyone!
Jonny
In related news, Johnny Ray Conner is still dead. And get ready to cry your eyes out, euroweenies: The Great State of Texas has three executions scheduled this week. :p
Ayaan didn’t flee. She accepted a good job in the US. And yes there was an attempt made by the government to take her Dutch passport because she lied about her name when she entered The Netherlands as a fugitive. I’m really glad that didn’t succeed. I thought they were hypocrite, and I accuse 1 minister of being jealous. Many Dutch thought exactly the same. Ayaan accepted the US Think Tank job before all this happened and she was constantly under Dutch protection.
And the Dutch are afraid of Muslims? Yeah right. When hell freezes over.
I’m against guns. I’m against the death penalty. I’m pro women rights, gays rights. I’m for a good (free) health care system for every one, and free schooling for every one.
And now we have a couple of gun owners from Texas who are still stuck in the dark ages and they think I’m mentally ill.
Well, good for you, I couldn’t care less. There are many, many people thinking the same way as I do, also in your country. So buy another gun or two and protect yourself against the big great dangerous unarmed left evil.
You idiot! Quote the obvious then!
He’s is mayby guilty, but we fry him anyway? And you speak about Christmas?
Lozing, me? Can’t even spell it.
Got your supply of handcream ready KMA?
Jonny
The obvious difference is that in the United States, a law abiding citizen does not have to break the law in order to purchase a gun. At the risk of sounding redundant, it SUX to be you.
But why would anyone want to own a gun? – that is the question.
Jonny
Dear Tammi,
Thank God the US has 300+ million law abiding citizens.
And I would love to be you as well, pray to God with a gun in my pocket. You hypocrite!
Jack, you have removed any doubt as to your mental condition. Like I told you, I understand you now. That there are many, many people sharing your delusions, must be a great comfort to you.
Good luck with that.
Were you capable of understanding, it would have been made clear from numerous comments. That you can’t understand, or respect, any point of view contrary to your’s, is quite likely a problem that exists in other aspects of your life.
Liberalism is pathological, a psychological aberration. Once you are able to understand that, you will be on the road to recovery.
You might find this former liberal writer’s perspective on the matter informative.
I say perhaps, but I am not hopeful it will.
One observation, before I get ready for dinner.
I noticed a desperation in Jack and Jon’s attempt to convince me and other posters here, of the superiority of their respective cultures and morals. Based on my observation, at this time, the desperation doesn’t appear to be to convince other’s, but to convince themselves of their superiority. An insecurity that they clearly need to come to terms with.
And my writings here have one sole purpose dear n2l, kma and friends. And that is to remind you of that. Many, many people world wide share these same ‘delusions’ or whatever you like to call it. Don’t you forget it. And if you do, I’ll be there to remind you. Again, again and again. Until some moron like you shoots me like gun equipped morons tend to when they are cornered.
No desperate attempt, even apes are superior to you.
How do you like them apples?
I understand, Jack…there-there, I understand. Everything will be fine for you…one day. You just need to learn and grow, stay on your meds, and one day, when you are an adult, you will look back at your silly mental condition as a passing phase.
Regards.
I’m so sorry I’m late to the fray today…I was out enjoying my fabulous life (even if it was 95 degrees with 95 % humidity). But I see my man No2liberals carried on the work of the day.
Jack…I have to ask if you’ve even read the screeds that you post. Perhaps if you walked away from the bong a little more often you would be able to post a coherent and logical thought.
John…you came in rude and then bitched that this blog is rude. How very continental of you. And to answer your question “why would anyone want to own a gun?” I’ll answer that with this…Our founding fathers recognized that our rights were given by God, they merely codified them into law. Read the Federalist Papers. A fascinating glimpse into the thought processes of the men that founded the American republic.
KMA…I apoligize….I see you and N2L did the day shift. And well ya’ll did serve!
Thanks, armybrat. I hadn’t considered that Jack is self-medicating, but now that you mention it, it is a distinct possibility, and would explain his tangential thought processes.
Good call.
BreakingNewsBreakingNewsBreakingNews
Johnny Ray Conner — Still dead!
— UrbanGrounds News Network
N2L…given jack’s level of paranoia and self agrandizement, I’m pretty sure he partakes on a regular basis.
God bless Texas! I’ll return one fine day.
Henh.
It’s legal there, don’t you know.
Other than Switzerland, there aren’t many more places in the world I would care to visit. The last time I came home to Texas, I nailed my feet to the ground.
Thanks for the update, UNN. There is a rumor he was seen backstroking down the river Styx, but has yet to be confirmed.
Damnit, no2liberals, you get all the best toys.
Swampwoman, I am not paying msrp!
Counting on some perquisites and the holiday spirit.
You must have been very, very good this year!
/I’ll be getting coal in my stocking as per usual. I tried to talk Santa into at least a few barrels of oil, but noooooooo.
No, not Santa. Saint Gabriel Possenti, the patron Saint of guns, in honor of National Exercise Your Rights Day. You know those little details of life in America, rights and privileges, freedom and liberty, that those from the Old World have never come to understand or cherish.
I hope KMA and Swampwoman can keep an eye on the children tomorrow. Can’t have them swinging from the chandeliers.
I have a very busy day scheduled for tomorrow, being a laissez faire capitalist, and all.
Hasta Luego.
Sorry, I have to do that capitalist thang tomorrow as well. Wytammic and ArmyBrat are doing a great job, though, and I know that they will keep KMA company should KMA need the help, which is not very likely.
How cute. My kids played with power tools, rebuilt engines, and drove heavy equipment.
All I have read from your inane drivel N2L is that you have a gun to protect yourself from those who are a threat (with guns).
Now, call me old fashioned, but wouldn’t it be a better idea to just remove the gun from the equation?
See, where you live, that isn’t an option because your to far gone. That is why you walk round like gun-ho vigilantes waiting fro anyone to step onto your lawn so you can blow their asses off with an array of personal artillery.
We on the other hand (and by we, I mean modern day countires) relise that owning a gun not a very good idea. I buy a gun, my neighbour buys a bigger gun, his neighbour buys a tank, and his neighbour starts messing around with plutonium. A slippery slope I am happy my government are keeping us clear of.
I will leave my apartment today to enjoy the heat wave we are having at the moment and not have to worry about meeting anyone who wants to kill me with a gun.
Now, you may think I’m trying to convince myself that this country is superior to yours, but where gun laws are concerned, the facts really stand up for themselves.
The desire to own a gun should forbid anyone from having one in the first place.
*Slaps head against desk*
Go and blame a man made non exsistant ethereal entity for your failings why don’t you ArmyBrat?
Should we acknowledge the rights of those who rape and kill children because they tell us ‘God told me to do it!’.
Lame excuse – at least have the backbone to take responsibilities for your own actions.
Quick lesson for you ArmyBrat – god doesn’t exists. God is a man made creation to help people like you excuse the nonsense you waste so much of your valuable time pursuing.
Go and bake a cake or, if you own one of those passport things, visit another country – it might even help you widen your narrow view of this world.
Jonny
The debate appears to have moved on from death penalty to guns.
John Nash, a Nobel prize winner, formulated game theory. Wikepedia will give a better picture of game theory than I can.
Regarding society, citizens, guns and criminals there are four possible situations:
A. Citizens don’t have guns; criminals don’t have guns
B. Citizens have guns; criminals don’t have guns
C. Citizens have guns; criminals have guns
D. Citizens don’t have guns; criminals have guns
Leaving aside the issue of sporting guns, I personally would like to live in society A.
Society B seems liable to turn into society C (I repeat, sporting guns are not part of this model), as, if a non-gun owning criminal knows that citizens own guns, I suspect that he’s going to go out and get himself a gun.
Society D does not seem like a good place to live
In my opinion society C appears better than society D, but not as good as society A.
Assume one lives in society A. Imagine that one criminal acquires a gun. We now have a society A tarnished with a touch of society D. With only one criminal having a gun, I still prefer to live in society A ( I am assuming that this society is pretty large). Obviously this one criminal with a gun has pretty much a free hand until he is (hopefully) caught.
At what point does an imperfect society A turn into a society D? How many criminals need to arm themselves as a percentage of total population? I suggest that if there is only one criminal with a gun in an entire country, the country as a whole is relatively unaffected by the actions of this one person. I also suggest that, because there is only one criminal with a gun, the police can and will devote more resources to hunting him down.
Do people prefer a society A with a very, very small imperfection to society C?
I believe that USA military extensively used Nash’s game theory in dealing with the USSR nuclear threat during the Cold War.
Very interesting point Wolf.
Not only is a tarnished ‘A society’ better than a fully developed ‘D society’ for reasons of civil safety, the attitudes of governments play a hefty part.
If we can stay in the ‘A society’ we will also have the devotion of a government to halt any progression into a ‘D society’. Guns will remain rightly to be outlawed and the criminal remains a criminal with a gun until caught.
The next progression (or indeed regression) for a ‘D Society’ would be a ‘C society’ or ‘Texas’ as it is commonly known.
The question is, even if an overwhelming majority or inhabitants of a society wish for change, is it possible to go from C to A?
Jonny
Jon, expand your tiny mind.
Wolf, that is an interesting game theory, but it assumes too much. It doesn’t consider the very real occurrence of the criminal being much bigger, stronger, and younger than it’s intended victim. For example, what possible chance would an elderly person have against a young, physically superior attacker, if the victim isn’t armed? Or any other person, such as a petite female, or a person with a physical disability. There was a television show, back in the 80’s I think, called “The Equalizer,” starring a Brit, of all people. The term “Equalizer,” as referring to personal defense, has been in use for quite some time. Back in the late nineteenth century, Colt Firearms, in one of it’s many marketing campaigns, had an ad that was a poem:”Fear no man, no matter what his size…Just call on me in time of need, and I will Equalize.” There was, and still is, another saying that goes:”Better to be judged by twelve, than buried by six.” Unlike the thick bricks in this forum, that are unwilling to consider any other perspective, gun ownership in this country is directed to self-preservation, not criminality. There are more than 25,000 gun laws in this nation, so it is difficult for any reasonable person to believe that we don’t take the matter seriously.
There are two researchers that have done incredible work in the field of study concerning gun ownership, crime, and self-defense. Prof. Gary Kleck of Florida State University, an avowed anti-gun academe, was determined to prove that personal firearm ownership was not a significant factor in preventing attacks. What he discovered in his extensive research of FBI data, from a decade of the Uniform Crime Report, which is raw data, completely surprised him, and based on his own research, became an advocate of private firearm ownership. Dr. Kleck ’s research has revealed, that on average, two and a half million criminal attacks are prevented annually, by an armed citizen, with the gun actually being fired a very small percentage of the time.
Then there is Prof. John Lott, who, along with a colleague, analyzed the FBI data for each and every county in the U.S., more than three thousand, and also analyzed the economic impact of crime. His research was so stunning, that he had to go to twenty professors before one would peer review it, as it so strongly went against their biases. It’s not that his research methodology was flawed, it was that the results were flawed, to the liberal bias of most academes. His research later became the best selling book, “More Guns, Less Crime.”
I wish I had time for more discussion, but must get ready for work.
I forgot to add that I believe that society D is as unstable as society B; it is likely that the citizens, once they realise that the criminals are armed, will go out and buy weapons.
So, I believe that societies B and D are unstable and both are likely to turn into society C.
I therefore believe that the average citizen of society C is acting in a totally rational manner when he/she goes out and buys a gun.
However what is rational for the individual may not be rational for society as a whole; that is a problem.
How does one turn society C into society A? I don’t know, but history may give some clues.
Hello N2L,
I added an addendum to my post at exactly the same time as your post.
You wrote,
gun ownership in this country is directed to self-preservation, not criminality.
I do not intend to disagree with that statement. As I said earlier it is totally rational for a citizen in society C to own a gun. If I lived in society C, I would possibly buy a gun even though I disaprove of gun ownership.
You make a very valid point about the difficulties that a person has against a physically stronger criminal. Bearing in mind that many violent criminals are youngish males it is likely that most attacks will be against physically weaker persons.
Assume that one lives in society A where there are no guns. Sadly criminals still exist and there are instances where citizens are physically beaten by criminals. If the citizens start buying guns, we are turning a society A into a society B, which will in turn evolve into society C.
Are we saying that society C is the only stable society? I hope not.
Whilst being physically beaten by a criminal is horrid and vile, I am suggesting that in most cases the victim lives. I haven’t got any stastistics to prove it, but I suggest that the death rate from being shot is substantially higher than the death rate from being beaten.
I couldn’t care less if a criminal is shot, but I do care if a citizen is shot. In society C more citizens are shot than in society A.
Therefore I believe that, although it is possible that more citizens may be physically beaten in society A, less citizens will be shot.
I continue to prefer society A.
I’ll have a look at Kleck and Lott’s work when I get a chance.
All valid points wolf although I think an important issue is being over looked.
The legallity of either society is a major issue and the enforcement of a reason and just justice system to dictate what is criminal and what is not.
To presume any of the society states you mention are down to citizens only isn’t the whole story.
To suggest that one would (or should) adapt to a particular society as you suggest you would do in the case of having to own a gun in ’society D’, although you are against the ethics of gun ownership is a personal decision. I would prefer to live in a society that allows me to live my life as I choose (or as close to as possible) therefore if Britain ever adopted a society anyhthing short of A, I would have to consider my citizenship.
To suggest the strenght of an individual criminal against a weaker, older victim really isn’t the point. It is the acceptance level that governments allow criminals to be criminals and therefore what society in turn considers to be the norm.
A young american shooting an older member of society, although wrong, is more shocking in a society where gun crime is rare.
The acquiescence of such criminal acts is what scares me about a country such as America.
I prefer to live in a country where shootings are rare and cause the emotional outpouring from its citizens that we see when such an event takes place.
Jonny
2004, Texas
Violence-Related Firearm Deaths and Rates per 100,000
All Races,
Both Sexes,
ICD-10 Codes: X72-X74,X93-X95,Y35.0, *U01.4
Number of Violence-Related Firearm Deaths in Texas: 2,260
2004, Texas
Unintentional Firearm Deaths and Rates per 100,000
All Races,
Both Sexes,
ICD-10 Codes: W32-W34
Number of Unintentional Firearm Deaths in Texas: 63
Data from CDC.GOV
In Holland (The Netherlands) there were 2.500 murders from 1996 ’till and including 2006. The stats show a decrease over the past three years, in 2006 there were 160 murders. Population 16+ million. (Texas 22+ million)
Data from: CBS
Data from: CBS
All murders, not only gun related.
But how many of those murders where commited against 3 x 5 index card at 15 feet?
Jonny
Sorry, I made a mistake in the stats from Texas to include legal intervention and suicides as well but, on the other hand, I forgot to include violence-related death other than death by firearms.
So without suicide, legal intervention, the first number isn’t 2,260 but 923 and 493 non-firearm.
Don’t mess with Texas or we’ll invade you!
LOL! That’s just funny.
Even though I don’t have the foggiest idea of what your point is. Sometimes, as stupid as you are, you say the cutest things. 
Wolf, referring to Dr. Nash’s model, I think a better way of approaching it, would be the use of Venn Diagrams, as opposed to neatly compartmentalized categories. In the ‘meat’ world, seldom are things that easily compartmentalized.
With what little time I have, I can’t produce any data that shows the breakdown of how homicides are committed, but firearms are most certainly the number one method of choice. I will link…here…to a pdf of national vital statistics for 2003, which is the most recent in completion. It is full of info, but the one area of concern for us all, is that young males of all races, with certain races even more violent, are not only the most prone to homicide, but the victims of it as well. In young males, of all races, the top three causes of death alternating in rank, are unintentional injury, homicide, and suicide. That a policeman pulling over a car full of young men, between the ages of 14-24, is cautious, is only good judgement, not racial profiling, irrespective of the race of the officer or the occupants of the vehicle. As a percentage of all deaths in this country, homicide is very small.
As for citizens arming themselves, it serves a useful purpose in our society. As a deterrent to crime, and as a deterrent to keeping our government in check, so that we will never live under a tyranical system.
In every nation that has instituted a national firearm registration system, confiscation has nearly always followed. While any death, by whatever cause, is devastating to the deceased parties family, the shameless power grabs by some governments after a tragedy, such as in Dunblane or in Australia, have aroused the suspicions of many, whenever our government proposes stricter measures, or registration. The same power mad forces in this country politicized the tragedies that have occurred in this country, since Columbine. That tragedy, as well as the most recent at Virginia Tech, have taught us valuable lessons, the most important being, that posting a “Gun Free Zone” sign outside a public facility, is an invitation to any would be mass killer. They can enter with confidence, knowing that no one will shoot back, that is, until the men with guns(police) arrive…in time to investigate the deaths of too many. That the anti-gun forces have been unsuccessful in stripping us of our God given rights is due in large part, to the different historical and cultural perspectives we have, about freedom and liberty. We have never, since our inception, served under a monarchy or tyrant, and we are the only nation that I know of, that has never had a walled city. We stand together, and don’t run to the King’s men for protection. There are responsibilties that citizens in a free nation have, to maintain order, and there will always be that element that refuses to follow the societal rules. There are risks, as well, but most of us would never trade our freedom or liberties, for a little more safety and security, as promised by those who would disarm us.
George Washington:
One last thing, as guns have been demystified in our society, and many of us have grown up with them, taught weapons safety by our families, and the seriousness and lethality they must be treated, many that have not had that experience will never understand why we aren’t as fearful of a weapon or an armed citizen. Not to mention they are a great source of competitive sport, and fun outings with family and friends.
Peace be with you.
Hmm…pardon typos, edit function is being quirky.
The Armed Citizen, August 2007.
Hello No2Liberals
I continue to refer to John Nash, as ironically his model emphasizes the logic of each citizen arming himself in a society where there are armed criminals.
The Armed Citizen reinforces this logic.
What I’m trying to say is that in an ideal world neither citizens nor criminals have guns (excluding the sporting issue). I may be being idealistic to want this, but if nobody was an idealist the human spirit would be stifled.
In UK, until recently, there had been very little armed activity by criminals. Then came the tragedy of Dunblane. The government’s knee-jerk reaction was to confiscate all handguns.
Since then UK gun crime has risen fourfold (864 gun incidents in 1998-99 compared to 3,821 in 2005-2006; source yesterday’s Sunday Times).
Personally I don’t think that there is relationship between the two events. I think that UK gun crime would have risen even if Dunblane had never happened. Drugs, easy access to Eastern European weapons, fatherless kids without role models, poor schooling, anti-marriage policies etc have all contributed to a partial breakdown of society especially at the lower end of the financial scale.
I am interested to note how deeply ingrained in USA society is the concept of being free of a monarch’s rule.
I spent four years as a regular soldier and swore an oath of allegiance to the Queen. This runs very deep within me. Please note that this oath of allegiance is to the Queen and NOT to the government.
I merely mention this latter point to show that there are honest differences between our two countries not to provoke a debate.
Peace be with you.
Little while ago, not even for prosecution.
Wolf, I agree with your ideal, to the extent that there would never be a need for personal protection from another human being.
Many here believed that the unfortunate rise in your countries crimes involving illegal firearms was to be expected, as only law abiding citizens would voluntarily comply with the ban on handguns. That is what separates the criminally inclined from the decent citizen. Illegal firearms will, unfortunately, always be available, as the market for them will most likely never diminish.
All of the causes you have listed, concerning the lack of civility and the rise of criminality, I agree with, and have observed the same causes in this country. The fact that our crime rates, especially homicides, spiked in the late 80’s, was a direct result of the welfare policies in this country initiated in the late 60’s, that basically encouraged young, poor, and uneducated women, to have children out of wedlock. Thus the breeding program for angry, illiterate, unloved, unwanted, unsupervised children began en masse. That so many turned to gangs for acceptance isn’t surprising, and that those gangs were involved in all things illegal, especially illegal drug use and sales, sealed the fates of many, in deadly shootings with other druggies.
As to our heritage of sporting arms, it began due to dietary subsistence, and grew from there. I should note, in the event you were unaware, that the advance from flintlock to caplock, and the eventual development of the center fire cartridge with it’s primer, was due to a Scottish minister, that was an avid duck hunter.
A date of pride, to the lawful citizen, that is a defender of our way of life, is 3 Nov this year. On that date, deer hunting season begins for firearm hunters, and there will be more armed citizens out in force that day by a huge margin, than all of the armed law enforcement officers, and military members, combined. Chaos has never ensued.
LOL! Yes sir, the difference in our loyalties couldn’t be more pronounced. I too served on active duty in the USAF for five years, and our oath is to the constitution of the U.S., the guarantor of our rights, and not to the government.
I will tell you, like I have and do tell every person I meet that has served their country…Thank You For Your Service.
Wolf, if you want a fascinating read, that addresses the general decline and coarseness of behavior in civil society, then I highly recommend the book Hollywood vs. America.
One other quick note. This concerns new Texas state gun laws, that go into effect 1 Sep 07.
I love the signature of one of the commenters, “Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.”
- Benjamin Franklin, 1759
/ain’t it the truth
Every person? Wow, thank you (I think…)
YouTube Video: Chris Rock – No Gun Control!
The Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence
Houston Million Mom March Chapter
For Media Planning Purposes
Tuesday, August 21, 2007 for Tuesday, August 28, 2007
Contact: Joy George, 281-376-3062
Media Advisory***Media Advisory***Media Advisory
HOUSTON, DOZENS OF OTHER CITIES OBSERVE NATIONAL DAY OF PROTEST AGAINST ILLEGAL GUNS
Protests Across America On The Anniversary Of Dr. King’s March On Washington
Houston, TX – In partnership with Reverend Jesse Jackson’s Rainbow PUSH Coalition, the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence and its Million Mom March Chapters is organizing a national day of protest against gun violence. More than 20 cities across America will hold simultaneous protests on August 28. In Houston, the protest will be a “freeway blog†on the Montrose Bridge. Signs will be displayed for traffic on the Montrose Bridge. The freeway blog will feature a message against the easy availability of illegal guns in America.
Nationwide, there will be candlelight vigils, memorial bell-ringing ceremonies, marches, rallies, press conferences, and “lie-ins.†Reverend Jackson called for these protests to take place on August 28 – the anniversary of Dr. Martin Luther King’s historic March on Washington – to demand action against the gun violence plaguing our cities.
WHAT: National day of protest against gun violence
WHEN: Tuesday, August 28, 5:00pm
WHERE: Montrose Bridge, Houston. Also in more than 20 cities nationwide, including Birmingham, Phoenix, San Diego, Duluth, Minneapolis, Raleigh, Philadelphia, Dallas, and Seattle. A full list of participating cities will be available on August 23rd at http://www.bradycampaign.org.
More information on the Washington, DC Chapters of the Million Mom March is available online at http://www.millionmommarch.org/dc/.
For continuing insight and comment on the gun issue, read President Paul Helmke’s blog at http://www.bradycampaign.org/blog/. And visit our website at http://www.bradycampaign.org.
As the nation’s largest, non-partisan, grassroots organization leading the fight to prevent gun violence, the Brady Campaign, working with its dedicated network of Million Mom March Chapters, is devoted to creating an America free from gun violence, where all Americans are safe at home, at school, at work, and in our communities.
###
I had a student like JRC in one of my classes. He habitually committed crimes and would immediately deny his involvement. It was kind of automatic, and his behavior was so pervasive that authorities just started looking the other way…California here.
What protesters should and aught to do is put themselves in a situation where they have lost a loved one to such a person as JRC and then advocate for his acquittal. The role playing in a group brings a sobering outcome to right to life advocates. Anyone playing a perp’s role or perp’s advocate develops an attitude that is both challenging revealing to the group; once the power differential comes into play — no one in their right mind wants to let the perp live.
Our culture is naive. Animals are put to death for a reason. For those who think forgiveness prevails over evil in life, you are living you trial by ordeal karmic roots trying to overshadow guilt with benevolence. The cold harsh reality is predators like JRC do not understand the word “no”, but they do identify with their maker.
Did anyone read JRC’s denial of this crime? He never wrote one. His game was denial, and this rhetoric permeated his narratives. He received the appropriate end to his life, not IF he committed the crime he was accused of but because he DID commit the crime he was accused of. The secondary guilt for his behavior bears heavily on his family (likely the source of his troubles in the first place).
To almost all here, you convinced me: the guns issue is more important than I thought – only we think differently. I hope Holland doesn’t get infected by this virus so I will support the anti gun lobby as much as possible starting today (august 28th 2007), which is an important day for me as well.
Maybe we’ll meet again, I’ll be unarmed.
One more thing…
In a relative issue involving a 40 year old perp’s having sawn off the arms of his 15 year old victim, throwing her body in a trash can and leaving her for dead after he raped her, he only got 15 years and was released to his home next door to the victim where she continued to live with her mother. For training purposes, people whop oppose the death penalty need to take a two week vacation in Inglewood or Compton, oh and this should include taking your young children with you to let them play in the local parks while you are there. The first training exercise would be to deny your child help after being violently assaulted by an adult over using a swing or not being willing to give up a stuffed animal. The second training exercise would be to attempt to report the crime if it resulted in a death. In this event, trainees would be encouraged to advocate for the perp’s rights to a fair trial, deny their pain and try to convince public administrators they are incorrect in their prosecution tactics – because of bias, attorney incompetence or lack of authentic evidence (remember, this part involves the trainee denying s/he was even anywhere near the crime scene and could therefor not be a credible witness in the case).
Take a breath folks. Texas knows and understands this problem and has an effective way of dealing with it. Capital punishment works, plain and simple. Look what it did to change JRC’s attitude when the inevitability of his death finally occurred to him, “…forgive me…”
In the meanwhile, Mr. Halperin, you go to hell!
Oh get real for fucks sake!
We are anti-death penalty NOT anti-justice you moron!
Monsters like this need a life time behind bars, working hard labour for the rest of their lives to pay their victims family a wage!
If this happened to my kid, I would want this monster to go through hell. And to have his paycheck sent to ME at the end of every month knowing he has worked his fingers to the bone would make me feel a whole lot better!
I argue the point that with any punishment we need to make sure no action is taken that isn’t able to be reversed at any point, JUST IN CASE they are found to be innocent in future.
Hard labour is reversable, a death sentence isn’t!
Jonny
And don’t give me any crap about hard labour not being a possibility. Of course it is! We are bordering on a anarchic revolution over here due to people being fed up with criminals (particulary youths) not getting what they deserve.
Human rights are a good thing, but they should be on a sliding scale dependent on what type of human you are.
Work hard, pay your taxes and contribute to the society you live and you get 10 stars on the scale which equates to full on human rights status.
Kill someone or think you can live by your own rules where society suffers, and you get a zero.
As the prosecution, WE as society should be around the 10 mark and therefore have the intelligence to acknoweldge the fact that just because someone is behaving like a monster, doesn’t mean we have to.
Hard labour – and longer prison sentences. A life behind bars where they AT LEAST pay for themselves so they aren’t even a burden on decent tax payers!
Jonny
Penn and Teller on…Gun Control.
To Johnny – In other words, you are willing to take a payment for your child’s life, correct? Some people have their price. Have you talked about this with your children? Do they agree?
Some people consider life priceless. And to be honest with you, I doubt JRC had this in mind. You do have something in common with him though. He had a price in mind when he took his victim’s life – whatever was in the cash register, and he reneged. He possessed the characteristics of both sociopath and pychopath. I guess what this means is the changeability of the importance of things valued in money would be an unstable measure of one’s life in determining what the consequence should be for a capital crime, according to who — you? So, if we can make a crime worth a buck in payback, why not just be able to bankrupt the crime all together and forget about it? Seems logical. Yes, No?
As a matter of economics, capital crimes fall short of equitable means of repayment for losses, which are considered to be overwhelmingly and spiritually irreconcilable — except for an eye for an eye. Take away capital punishment and there will be no diversion from capital crime. In fact, the more gruesome the punishment the more tangible impact a consequence would have on deterring criminal behavior (eg draw and quarter, hanging, electric chair, firing squad, etc.) There is nothing like a head getting disconnected from the body during a hanging to make the point that punishment will certainly follow certain kinds of behavior, er, ah…should the perp get caught.
The issue remains regarding this fellow’s families role in his acquiescence to a crime that got him caught. Read his narratives very carefully. In the best form of a predator, he was hedging his odds against being executed by playing with the reader’s intelligence hopeful of a rescue. He failed. Others like him will fail, and states will come more into alignment with a Texas-like policies regarding capital crimes.
In one other case I am aware of here in California, a male adult ordered two female youths under a bridge bull works where he then raped both of them and then threw them to their deaths. He said they went under the bridge with him, “…in their own best interest,” before he killed them. These were his words. His “auntie” proclaimed the police had brutalized him causing his current issues with his recollection of his crime. You got a price for the lives of the two girls he took? You figure yourself to be a worthy wholesaler of children victims of capital crimes? Texas has one on you, fellah. Dream on. Execution, because it works.
You and Mr. Halperin can move to San Francisco eat your beef. Executions for capital crimes are correct form, and states will follow as the reality of incarceration becomes a financial nightmare. You see, tax dollars pay for these services. I am not feeling the obligation to put up a murderer with room, board and a job to pay a monetary settlement to the victim’s family, but I understand the absurdity of this proposition. It is rooted in a past of guilt.
In the form of one attorney’s absurd vernacular, “If you kill, take the pill.”
Do you remember Led Zeppelin’s song “Hang Man”? hahaha
Hello No2L,
Thank you for your comments. I suspect that we have much in common and merely differ on the best way to achieve our shared aims.
I’ve had a quick glance at Hollywood vs America on Amazon. Without reading the book it’s difficult to comment. However I do believe that people, and especially young people, are influenced by what they see or hear in the media and society.
In UK there is an ongoing debate about the desirability of certain types of music promoting drugs, violence and guns. Some argue that it’s only music or that it only reflects what’s happening on the streets.
Until recently we’ve had in the UK a certain number of Muslim Immams preaching death, violence, jihad and hate.
People are heavily influenced by what they perceive society/authority is telling them. The Stanley Milgram experiments at Yale are powerful evidence of this.
In both cases the right to freedom of speech has been heavily invoked.
I believe that the two cases are slightly different, although the effect is the same.
In the media case we have people with power acting irresponsibly. They are very immature, but the consequences are pretty grave.
With the hostile Immams we have an enemy within our own country. One may not like it, but one can’t really blame the enemy for acting like the enemy.
I hasten to add that there are many Immams, who are perfectly normal. My description of some Immams does not mean that all Immams are enemy.
Where does one draw the line over freedom of speech? I’m not sure that I’m wise enought to successfully answer that question.
However I do believe that any action advocating violence, death or hate should fall out of the freedom of speech remit. What do you think?
Congress put a patriot in the oval office for two terms for a reason. Go Colonel, Go Colonel…hehehe
Very interesting story here about whether or not England is “vanishing“:
Maybe if British citizens had more legally-owned guns?
Britons give many reasons for leaving, but their stories share one commonality: life in Britain has become unbearable for them. They fear lawlessness and the threat of more terrorism from a growing Muslim population and the loss of a sense of Britishness, exacerbated by the growing refusal of public schools to teach the history and culture of the nation to the next generation.
I’m not leaving my country just because of a minority of bad people and a useless, dishonest government.
I will be buried in England, maybe sooner, maybe later, but I’m staying.
Back to the media and perception…….I live in an area of London that sadly sees a regular crop of violent crime. Am I frightened? No, I wander the streets without any fear whatsoever. Am I stupid? Am I so stupid that I don’t realise what’s going on?
A lot of UK violent crime is drug related and “internal” within the drug community. Another massive source of violence is fueled by alcohol, which is a major problem in UK. If one is not part of these two “cultures”, one has eliminated a huge source of potential aggro.
Minor crime continues to be a problem and virtually every female I know has had her handbag stolen…….but then they do tend to leave them lying around!
Let’s remember we are all at least semi-intelligent on here RIC and to suggest someone would balance a payment for his child is absurd, and also very disrespectful.
My point, which I hoped you would pick up on, is the fact that if somebody killed a child of mine I would want to hit them where it hurts. The monetray value comes in because I resent having to pay for criminals to spend 23 hours behind bars watching TV and eating food that I PAY FOR! I see no reason why they shouldn’t work (and again, I mean hard labour) to pay for themselves, and any extra cash should go to the victims familes. Or maybe a fund be set up that then goes on to pay for combatting or even better PREVENTING crime.
I don’t know all the answers but I think its a good start.
i) Capital punishment is expensive (not only the evnt itself but the 15 odd years that the criminal sits on death row eating YOUR food).
ii) Capital punishment does NOTHING to deter future criminals and so you will be paying more and more in taxes as more and more young men commit crimes worthy of a place on death row.
iii) The victims families have to wait far to long for justice to serve its term. How would you feel if you where the family of Mike McMahon or Deia Sutton who where both allegedly killed by Ronald Chambers back in 1975. Thats the year I was born! 32 years ago and justice STILL hasn’t been served. The poor families of these victims have had life sentences themselves put on them by the ridiculous judicial system Texas has.
Put these criminals to work immediately after incarceration.
If they are found to be innocent in the future then fine, they’ve hard a hard deal but at least they are alive!
Jonny
Wolf, we have already determined that yelling “fire” in a crowded theater is not an expression of free speech, for obvious reasons.
Having anyone spreading a message of hate or violence is going to be debated as either a lawful or unlawful expression of free speech. Personally, and certainly given the current atmosphere of radicalized muslims carrying out crimes against society, I believe that any person of authority, imams included, should face consequences for encouraging anti-social behavior.
If you scroll down on that link to Hollywood vs. America, there are several reviews that can give you some insight. It is a very thoughtful and intelligent book, written by a movie critic, in which he makes his points one by one, then gives at least three examples of how the entertainment industry in Hollywood attacks traditional values.
We are having the same discussion in this country, about the vulgar, violent music, that is so popular with our youth. As if the age groups it appeals to isn’t already violent enough.
I think you and I would always get along well, and have some fun with our differences, unlike some, and still be able to recognize how much we have in common. I can tell you are a civil person, and a man of honor.
Need to get back to work, but thought this information might be interesting…to some.
There was a Department of Justice funded study done in the early 80’s as our violent crime was ascendant. It was called the Wright-Rossi study, and in it, they surveyed over eighteen hundred inmates on numerous topics. The full article on their book can be found…here.
It is very informative, and includes analysis, statistics, with charts and graphs. Here is an excerpt:
If anyone would like to know how I am honoring National Exercise Your Rights Day, the answer is here. BTW, I don’t pay msrp.
/because I can…because I want to
1. We are a rich country. Cost of the dp is not an issue and certainly shouldn’t concern someone who is a noncitizen.
2. There have been a couple of recent studies indicating that the dp is a deterrent.
3. The victim’s families can speak for themselves. Except for a very few, they want the murderer of their loved one executed and will wait it out no matter how long.
Don’t kid yourself that there is one big pot of money paying for these criminals KMA – It is the average American who pays out of hard earned taxes! In Texas, an average death penalty case costs $2.3 million, whereas 40 years behind bars costs $750,000. (1991)
Then I suspect the number of death row inmates being killed should also be going down? Well, no they’re not. Although not as high as in 2000 with 40 people killed, 2007 looks to be the best year since. I’m guessing 32 will be executed? Any one taking bets?
So you think 10.26 years is a reasonable lenght of time for families to wait before they see justice?
Jonny
Hello N2L,
Thank you for your kind words, which I heartily reciprocate.
Whilst we have both agreed and differed, I believe that we have mutually shown that, in order to “win” an honest debate, courtesy and reason are essential characteristics.
Sometimes “winning” is both sides agreeing to differ, but respecting each other’s view; sometimes “winning” is sowing the seed of an idea, that comes to fruition a certain time later; sometimes winning is actually converting the other side.
It is getting late in UK so I’m going to be very brief.
I do have other subjects, which I would be delighted to discuss with you, if you’re interested; climate change, Iraq, role of capitalism, democracy etc.
Peace be with you.
1. Well, you aren’t kidding us. Again, it’s not your money. Second, if the taxpayers didn’t want to pay for it all they have to do is vote to outlaw the dp. As to costs – you mistakenly assume that there aren’t similar costs associated with lwop. It’s the same. Also, as far as the dp goes, it’s more money up front and less in the long run.
2. Huh? It has nothing to do with the population on death row. That is more indicative of better police work, better prosecution, population increases, etc. Again, there have been a series of recent studies that the death penalty deters murder and that between 3 and 18 lives would be saved by the execution of each convicted murderer.
3. I can live with an average of 10 years because that is a reasonable amount of time to exhaust all appeals – state and federal.
Wolf, as I and many of my friends like to say, right backatcha.
I always debate respectfully, unless or until I find that respect isn’t reciprocated. The basis for this thread, was that the EU has presumed too much in telling the state of Texas how it should not employ the death penalty. Whether we agree that capital punishment is the correct approach or not, it shouldn’t be difficult to understand that the EU’s opinion has absolutely no bearing on the collective judgement of the citizens of Texas. It appears to me that the EU has enough opportunities and threats to contend with, without commenting on our justice system. An example would be the mayor of Brussels refusing a permit to a peaceful demonstration at EU Headquarters by the organization Stop Islamisation of Europe, but issuing a permit for a pro-Hezbollah group.
In forums such as these, all we have are pixels too express our opinions. Without civility and respect, all we have is wasted bandwidth. It’s easy enough to misinterpret each other, but not difficult to interpret when someone is being coarse, overly emotional, and without reason.
In the link I provided earlier, about Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs, the essay has been one of my favorites, since I discovered it. I have always been a sheepdog, it just is who I am. I was a policeman for four years, before returning to college, and then graduate school, and I have always run to the sound of the gun, and not away from it. I have looked evil directly in the eye, and I know, without equivocation, that it does exist. I’ve seen a man with his neck cut so wide open, that it looked like a huge mouth, only because some other men wanted a few pieces of silver. I’ve waded through buckets of blood after crimes and vehicle accidents, the worst being when children were killed. I have never lost faith in mankind, and still believe we are inherently good, and given the proper environment, will display it. I also believe, that some times, good people have to do bad things to very bad people, in order to maintain order, so the good in our society can flourish. I abhor people without honor, and those that panic in a crisis. Being indecisive in applying justice, is to me, not useful, as justice delayed is justice denied.
As for the other items you expressed interest in debating/discussing, it would be my pleasure. Another thread might be best, though. However, I should caution you, I am very opinionated.
/lol
Be well.
Realist in California, being an educator, you might find this article interesting…I did.
If you saying I am not entitled to an opinion because I’m not a texan then that is possible the most hypocritical thing you have said to date.
Lets not forget the wars you wage with countries that really don’t concern you. Doing it for democratic reasons? Well then, so am I.
If you saying I am not entitled to an opinion because I’m not a texan then that is possible the most hypocritical thing you have said to date.
I can’t say this is the most stupid thing you have posted because you have posted so many stupid things. Your opinion as to cost is irrelevant because you are not paying and those who do pay have determined they want to continue funding the death penalty. Additionally, your opinion is irrelevant, because like most, if not all, of your opinions, it is stupid and merely reflects your feelings of inferiority.
If your studies are correct, then the number of people admitted to death row should be getting lower correct?
As previously responded to, no, not correct.
It amazes me that you call feel righteous by call me a Euroweenie when you seem to be supporting a 23 hour day of watching TV for 10.26 years before justice being allowed to serve. Even for volunteers and those asmitting their crimes, the time from incarceration to justice is far too long.
I don’t feel self righteous for pointing out you’re a euroweenie, I point out you’re a euroweenie because you are an asshole who lives in europe. You’re phony outrage about length of time for appeals is well, your phony outrage. Additionally, in Texas, the average time for those who waive their appeals is less than a year. Not that I expect you to ever use facts in your arguments. lol
Hard labour! That is the answer. Put the to work AS SOON AS they have entered prison. Or is that to liberal for you?
Silly suggestions that are barred by law or would create additional victims is ultra liberal.
Hello N2L,
You wrote:
The basis for this thread, was that the EU has presumed too much in telling the state of Texas how it should not employ the death penalty.
I think that it’s true to say that “telling” people what to do usually doesn’t work. In fact it often makes them pretty cross. Whilst I am still personally against the death penalty, I understand your, and other Texans, reasons for getting angry with anyone who tells you what to do, especially when the matter is an internal affair.
When are can it be right to tell another country what to do?
When the actions of that country are directly and negatively affecting one’s own people is an obvious scenario. This is a scenario that may lead to war.
The other scenario is when a country’s internal policies are so out of line with what is morally acceptable behaviour to the overwhelming majority of the human race. North Korea, Zimbabwe, female genital mutilation in many parts of Africa, female infanticide in India……the list goes on and on.
Take a guy who lives next door and beats his wife and children. This is awful behaviour. If I tell him to stop beating his wife and children, the reaction is pretty predictable and probably ineffective. What I have to do is call the police and social services, which at a country level is the UN. If the police and social services are inept/incompetent/won’t listen (the UN?), then I have to use my democratic vote to try and get a better police force/social services department.
That’s my take on the situation.
I note that you were a police officer. You’ve probably seen more bad things in a week than I’ll see in my whole life.
Stay well.
KMA, I found some interesting data from the FBI links, concerning Capital Punishment.
Contemporary liberalism, not classical liberalism, has been the major cause of the rise of crime, which is at much lower levels than it was in the late 80’s and early 90’s. It has taken the conservative approach to crime and punishment, to turn this around. The criminally inclined had grown accustomed to being able to weasel their way out of trouble with the bleeding hearts, and the repeat offenders became more numerous. I am proud to know, that in Texas, our rules are made very clear, and that if a criminal is foolish enough, or has a death wish, they will find that the consequences will be severe. Still, looking at the data from various sources, we are far too lenient with criminals. As the data shows, of all the death row inmates in the U.S., nearly 2 out of 3 had a prior felony conviction, and 1 in 12 had a prior homicide conviction.
OTH, I saw an article in the London Guardian yesterday, that I thought quite stunning, and shows the national opinion to their approach to criminality.
As Wolf and I have pointed out in different comments, the crime problem is growing in the UK, but the majority of it’s citizens are opposed to effective punishments, and instead want some pie-in-the-sky punishment, that hasn’t even been invented. Perhaps what is needed, is a thread that focuses on the UK system of crime and punishment, and track it’s success through the available data. We know our methods are working.
In what I can only call ironic timing, this article was published yesterday, as well. And yet, our national crime rates are stable and not rising, after falling significantly, from the mid 90’s to the mid 2000’s.
Sorry there’s a couple of typos in my post……hopefully you can understand what I meant.
Good morning, Wolf.
I’m glad you understood my point. As I have stated earlier, how those in your country chose to live, and in the EU in general, is fine with me, as long as it’s a true expression of the will of the population.
As for the the ugly and inhumane way some nations treat their citizens, like the ones you pointed out, and of particular interest to me, in Iran, it angers and saddens me. So many wonderful people, without the ability to be free from their torment, unless some how they can overthrow the regimes which enslave them, which means grave personal risk and sacrifice.
As far as being a policeman, what most don’t realize is, it is mostly boring, mundane, and routine, then can change in a heartbeat and become quite intense. The things that I had to do, I did because I felt someone had to help those in need. Someone has to wade through the filth and gore, and try and make a difference. Chasing bad people down dark streets, walking through a door knowing that there was someone on the other side that did not want me there, and brawling were all things I was good at, and actually enjoyed. It was the carnage from the number one killer in this country, car crashes, that convinced me I could no longer live with the images, and needed to focus on my education. I still miss it, sometimes, the excitement, and the satisfaction of helping others, and apprehending criminals, but will leave it to the younger men, now. My mind set hasn’t changed, which is what is most important, and am always vigilant, and don’t hesitate to get involved if I see an injustice.
I have intervened, though, when I encountered a man beating his girlfriend, and will always do so. Bullies are always physical cowards, as evidenced by their choice of victims.
Not only voting in your local and national elections, Wolf, but getting involved in grass roots movements with like minded citizens, to get more citizens, who seldom pay attention to the issues, involved in the process. One citizen can make a difference, it just takes a lot of time and effort.
Good morning N2L,
I agree with everything in your previous thread.
I note with interest your comment on car crashes. This is actually only the second thread that I’ve ever really posted on. The other thread involved a UK discussion on whether drivers of high powered sports cars should take an additional driving test.
A considerable number of the posters were pretty adamant that they didn’t want anyone telling them how to drive.
We have in UK a large number of big, yellow radar speed traps by the side of the road. They’re pretty obvious, unless you’re registered blind. However there is a substantial number of people who believe that it’s their God-given right to speed. I even read one guy saying that if a child ran out into the street whilst he was speeding it would be the child’s fault if he hit it (I believe that young children have very different spacial awareness abilities to adults).
UK roads are actually pretty safe compared to many other EU countries, but the attitude of many drivers is appalling.
“The superior driver uses his superior knowledge to avoid getting into situations where he needs to use his superior skill.”
That’s what I was taught.
I’m now off to play bridge where I can be as competetive as I like without anyone getting hurt.
Keep in good health.
PS I have learnt by bitter experience never to get involved in fights! I’m now 54 years old, I’m 5′ 11″ tall and weigh 150 pounds; this does not make me good fighting material (unless I took a martial arts course and continuously practiced). I’ve parachuted, rock-climbed etc etc and, even at 54, I can run faster than 99% of the human race……..but fighting…….I know my limitations.
Having been in law enforcement, and drive the busy freeways of Dallas, it is my opinion, that is speed differential that kills, not necessarily speed itself. Regardless of the posted limits, if one person is traveling significantly faster or slower, than the rest of traffic, they are the source of the problem.
That comment about a child being at fault is just silly, and not from a person that is a deep thinker.
I’m of to an appointment, and can only hope that driving on a busy freeway, I will come away as unscathed, as you will from playing cards.
Oh, and it’s not how big the dog in the fight, but how big the fight in the dog.
/woof
The emphasized portion was done by me, as I fully concur with his assessment.
Shall Issue.
In this wikipedia entry on concealed handgun laws in the U.S., there is a morphing image that begins with the year 1986, the year Florida introduced it’s “Shall Issue” CHL law, which has been copied extensively since. As a result of a growing crime problem in the U.S., which was partuclarly violent in Florida, due to drug trafficking, Florida chose to allow their citizens to arm themselves. Most states have followed, as the morphing map shows. I believe, as do many others, there is a correlation between more citizens being able to arm themselves, and the reduction in crime, that began to show in the mid 90’s, without impugning the necessary changes instituted in our courts.
Just a quick note on the comment left concerning Sarah Brady and her anti-gun Brady Bunch. She gave a speech at a major university, several years ago, and she and the auditorium were surrounded by an estimated 150 armed law enforcement officers.
The theme of her lecture?
Handguns are useless for personal protection!
/I shiite you not
A fun family outing. Youtube calls it “crazy,” but they are a pack of liberals, so it doesn’t count.
This is an annual event, held at Knob Creek, Kentucky. I’ve got to get there for this event.
Tyrants beware!
/especially the UN
I didn’t see any black people attending that ‘fun family outing’.
Wait, don’t tell me, they where the moving targets right?
You guys are SO out there!
Jonny
Hee-hee, made you look.
It’s fun, but then you will never know.
Racial diversity isn’t required at private events.
You’re so cool N2L – One day, I want to be just like you.
Jonny
Actually, it’s n2l. I’ve got much more going on than just Fnet=m*a.
I’m so cool cause I wear no socks and matching underwear. Try it, and you could reach a level of coolness you never imagined.