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	<title>Comments on: Is the DREAM Act Dead?</title>
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	<description>Sometimes the truth hurts</description>
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		<title>By: Marc</title>
		<link>http://urbangrounds.com/2007/09/dream-act-dying/#comment-102405</link>
		<dc:creator>Marc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Oct 2007 17:59:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://urbangrounds.com/2007/09/26/dream-act-dying/#comment-102405</guid>
		<description>Preston, you did not address my main sticking point. If some kid was brought here at the age of five and either the kid nor the parents cared enough to go thru the process of making themselves a U.S. citizen, then why should we in this country give them anything? Help me understand why we should give something to someone who does not even have the courtesy or willingness to pledge a simple oath, go thru the process, get in line with all the rest, and become a citizen???What on earth is the reason we should do this??? I as a U.S. citizen don&#039;t even get the same darn break.!!  And I am not buying the argument: they play by the rules and are good kids....that has nothing to do with it.!  It comes down to this: if illegal immigrants don&#039;t care enough to become a citizen, then they should get nothing..period end of story. no exceptions.! No education, health care, drivers license, voting rights, employment, ability to buy a house, nothing.. I can&#039;t be any more clear, illigal immigrants should get nothing from this society. The reason they are here my friend is because we give them &lt;strong&gt;EVERYTHING&lt;/strong&gt; and ask nothing in return. We are the dumb ones here. This has nothing to do with the good hearted traditions of America. This has to do with the permanent destruction of our culture in favor of a 3rd world biased culture..We need to wake up in this country in the worst possible way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Preston, you did not address my main sticking point. If some kid was brought here at the age of five and either the kid nor the parents cared enough to go thru the process of making themselves a U.S. citizen, then why should we in this country give them anything? Help me understand why we should give something to someone who does not even have the courtesy or willingness to pledge a simple oath, go thru the process, get in line with all the rest, and become a citizen???What on earth is the reason we should do this??? I as a U.S. citizen don&#8217;t even get the same darn break.!!  And I am not buying the argument: they play by the rules and are good kids&#8230;.that has nothing to do with it.!  It comes down to this: if illegal immigrants don&#8217;t care enough to become a citizen, then they should get nothing..period end of story. no exceptions.! No education, health care, drivers license, voting rights, employment, ability to buy a house, nothing.. I can&#8217;t be any more clear, illigal immigrants should get nothing from this society. The reason they are here my friend is because we give them <strong>EVERYTHING</strong> and ask nothing in return. We are the dumb ones here. This has nothing to do with the good hearted traditions of America. This has to do with the permanent destruction of our culture in favor of a 3rd world biased culture..We need to wake up in this country in the worst possible way.</p>
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		<title>By: Jacques</title>
		<link>http://urbangrounds.com/2007/09/dream-act-dying/#comment-102403</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacques</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Oct 2007 17:38:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://urbangrounds.com/2007/09/26/dream-act-dying/#comment-102403</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5hGuI61H5YHoOQn7daTVLhCHFRKLw&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Vast US military base near border relies on Mexican labor&lt;/a&gt;

&lt;em&gt;FORT BLISS, United States (AFP)&lt;/em&gt; â€” This sprawling US Army base located at the edge of El Paso and skirting the border with Mexico is undergoing a major expansion that heavily relies on Mexicans for its construction.

Amid growing controversy in the United States over immigration -- legal and illegal -- the military is using foreign labor to build the base.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5hGuI61H5YHoOQn7daTVLhCHFRKLw" rel="nofollow">Vast US military base near border relies on Mexican labor</a></p>
<p><em>FORT BLISS, United States (AFP)</em> â€” This sprawling US Army base located at the edge of El Paso and skirting the border with Mexico is undergoing a major expansion that heavily relies on Mexicans for its construction.</p>
<p>Amid growing controversy in the United States over immigration &#8212; legal and illegal &#8212; the military is using foreign labor to build the base.</p>
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		<title>By: no2liberals</title>
		<link>http://urbangrounds.com/2007/09/dream-act-dying/#comment-102344</link>
		<dc:creator>no2liberals</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Oct 2007 01:33:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://urbangrounds.com/2007/09/26/dream-act-dying/#comment-102344</guid>
		<description>Believe as you wish.  If they are enforceable in court, why only the threat to sue when the President says he will not enforce a part of the bill, and never an actual suit?  Because if it encroaches on the &lt;em&gt;President&#039;s Constitutional authority&lt;/em&gt;, they will lose.

Once again, this bill rewards illegal behavior, and offers benefits that aren&#039;t available to our citizens.
It&#039;s wrong, unless you want to give the country away.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Believe as you wish.  If they are enforceable in court, why only the threat to sue when the President says he will not enforce a part of the bill, and never an actual suit?  Because if it encroaches on the <em>President&#8217;s Constitutional authority</em>, they will lose.</p>
<p>Once again, this bill rewards illegal behavior, and offers benefits that aren&#8217;t available to our citizens.<br />
It&#8217;s wrong, unless you want to give the country away.</p>
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		<title>By: Preston</title>
		<link>http://urbangrounds.com/2007/09/dream-act-dying/#comment-102313</link>
		<dc:creator>Preston</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Sep 2007 17:29:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://urbangrounds.com/2007/09/26/dream-act-dying/#comment-102313</guid>
		<description>I go out of town for a night and there&#039;s more than I can respond to...

Dianne:
&lt;em&gt;One state, California, spends $100 million annually to subsidize the college education of illegal immigrants .&lt;/em&gt;

This number, if true, is evidence that we should stop illegal immigration.  However, it has nothing to do with the DREAM act considering that beneficiaries of the act would be American citizens- not here illegally.

N2L:
Your links support my point that Presidents are free to comment on bills they sign but not to expect that they carry weight in a court of law  :

&lt;blockquote&gt;
The signing statement does not nullify part of a bill; provisions rejected by the president remain enforceable in court. Courts always respect valid vetoes; they virtually never pay attention to signing statements.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Marc:
I agree with you that immigration is a process in which other people come to this country learn the culture and the language and we all benefit from this exchange.  The DREAM act is consistent with this vision.  It is true that these children should not have been brought by their parents to this country without legal documentation.  But they were.  At that point, the only humane course is to find the kids who have been playing by the rules- graduating high school and college or going to the military- and acknowledge this with a promise of citizenship.

ASV:
Actually,  the Bible also argues the contrary in &lt;a href=&quot;http://bible.cc/ezekiel/18-20.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Ezekiel 18:20&lt;/a&gt;) &lt;em&gt;&quot;The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the fatherâ€™s iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the sonâ€™s iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself.&quot;&lt;/em&gt;   In any case, our society often attempts to address the poor choices of parents- school; immunization; and car seats are all mandatory.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I go out of town for a night and there&#8217;s more than I can respond to&#8230;</p>
<p>Dianne:<br />
<em>One state, California, spends $100 million annually to subsidize the college education of illegal immigrants .</em></p>
<p>This number, if true, is evidence that we should stop illegal immigration.  However, it has nothing to do with the DREAM act considering that beneficiaries of the act would be American citizens- not here illegally.</p>
<p>N2L:<br />
Your links support my point that Presidents are free to comment on bills they sign but not to expect that they carry weight in a court of law  :</p>
<blockquote><p>
The signing statement does not nullify part of a bill; provisions rejected by the president remain enforceable in court. Courts always respect valid vetoes; they virtually never pay attention to signing statements.</p></blockquote>
<p>Marc:<br />
I agree with you that immigration is a process in which other people come to this country learn the culture and the language and we all benefit from this exchange.  The DREAM act is consistent with this vision.  It is true that these children should not have been brought by their parents to this country without legal documentation.  But they were.  At that point, the only humane course is to find the kids who have been playing by the rules- graduating high school and college or going to the military- and acknowledge this with a promise of citizenship.</p>
<p>ASV:<br />
Actually,  the Bible also argues the contrary in <a href="http://bible.cc/ezekiel/18-20.htm" rel="nofollow">Ezekiel 18:20</a>) <em>&#8220;The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the fatherâ€™s iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the sonâ€™s iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself.&#8221;</em>   In any case, our society often attempts to address the poor choices of parents- school; immunization; and car seats are all mandatory.</p>
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		<title>By: A Single Voice</title>
		<link>http://urbangrounds.com/2007/09/dream-act-dying/#comment-102219</link>
		<dc:creator>A Single Voice</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Sep 2007 18:12:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://urbangrounds.com/2007/09/26/dream-act-dying/#comment-102219</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I am amazed that you are willing to lay the sins of the father upon their children. These children did not choose to come to this country and may not even speak the language of the country where they hold citizenship. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

The Bible says &quot;the sins of the fathers WILL be visited upon the sons&quot; - because like it or not, it is a fact of Nature: what we do affects future circumstances.  Part of being a good parent is to make responsible choices that don&#039;t have negative repercussions for our children.

The children of American criminals suffer hardship when Mom or Dad go to prison for their crimes.  We do not consider it the responsibility of American taxpayers to &quot;undo&quot; the consequences of their bad choices.

So why are the rest of us responsible for repairing the damage these illegals do to their children by their decision to break our Immigration Law?

In addition, many, MANY of these illegals deliberately delivered children here as &quot;anchor babies&quot; to insure that the rest of the family could obtain entry later.

I REFUSE to be suckered by pure emotionalism into feeling responsible for the bad consequences of others&#039; actions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I am amazed that you are willing to lay the sins of the father upon their children. These children did not choose to come to this country and may not even speak the language of the country where they hold citizenship. </p></blockquote>
<p>The Bible says &#8220;the sins of the fathers WILL be visited upon the sons&#8221; &#8211; because like it or not, it is a fact of Nature: what we do affects future circumstances.  Part of being a good parent is to make responsible choices that don&#8217;t have negative repercussions for our children.</p>
<p>The children of American criminals suffer hardship when Mom or Dad go to prison for their crimes.  We do not consider it the responsibility of American taxpayers to &#8220;undo&#8221; the consequences of their bad choices.</p>
<p>So why are the rest of us responsible for repairing the damage these illegals do to their children by their decision to break our Immigration Law?</p>
<p>In addition, many, MANY of these illegals deliberately delivered children here as &#8220;anchor babies&#8221; to insure that the rest of the family could obtain entry later.</p>
<p>I REFUSE to be suckered by pure emotionalism into feeling responsible for the bad consequences of others&#8217; actions.</p>
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		<title>By: no2liberals</title>
		<link>http://urbangrounds.com/2007/09/dream-act-dying/#comment-102213</link>
		<dc:creator>no2liberals</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Sep 2007 17:05:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://urbangrounds.com/2007/09/26/dream-act-dying/#comment-102213</guid>
		<description>Good comment, Marc.
I have tried to express myself as clearly as possible, that it is an acculturation and assimilation problem, due to illegal entry into our country.  We are a sovereign nation, with clearly defined borders, that must be observed.
I welcome any and all immigrants, from any land, as long as they follow the rules, and begin the process of becoming a citizen, not a parasite.
Offering any benefit to those who would violate our laws to obtain them is wrong at every level.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good comment, Marc.<br />
I have tried to express myself as clearly as possible, that it is an acculturation and assimilation problem, due to illegal entry into our country.  We are a sovereign nation, with clearly defined borders, that must be observed.<br />
I welcome any and all immigrants, from any land, as long as they follow the rules, and begin the process of becoming a citizen, not a parasite.<br />
Offering any benefit to those who would violate our laws to obtain them is wrong at every level.</p>
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		<title>By: marc</title>
		<link>http://urbangrounds.com/2007/09/dream-act-dying/#comment-102150</link>
		<dc:creator>marc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Sep 2007 05:45:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://urbangrounds.com/2007/09/26/dream-act-dying/#comment-102150</guid>
		<description>Preston
I hear you. we are a successful country. But we are so because we were all Americans at the end of the day, pulling together as one. When in the past did we give so much to people that were not American citizens? when did that happen? when in the past did we just give out money and educate people who had no papers, could not speak a lick of english, who came in the door illegally? in the past you had to assimilate, take the oath, play by the rules, learn English...so forth. That is how we became great my friend. By having a unifying vision and idea of america as a melting pot. no one culture dominates, unless it is the American culture. the key to that is to buy into America, not to hold on to your past and wave the flag of where you came from, speaking that language. Don&#039;t you see this illegal immigration issue is tearing us apart? it is not bringing anyone together. It is a very passionate issue on both sides. This is not something most people will ever come to an agreement on. This will leave bitter stains for generations to come. Resentment on both sides. This dream act only enlarges the resentment on the american side. To give in state tuition privileges to someone who not an American citizen....don&#039;t you hear how crazy that sounds? That is just insane.! Honestly all I can do is shake my head in amazement we are even having such a discussion. Unbelievable</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Preston<br />
I hear you. we are a successful country. But we are so because we were all Americans at the end of the day, pulling together as one. When in the past did we give so much to people that were not American citizens? when did that happen? when in the past did we just give out money and educate people who had no papers, could not speak a lick of english, who came in the door illegally? in the past you had to assimilate, take the oath, play by the rules, learn English&#8230;so forth. That is how we became great my friend. By having a unifying vision and idea of america as a melting pot. no one culture dominates, unless it is the American culture. the key to that is to buy into America, not to hold on to your past and wave the flag of where you came from, speaking that language. Don&#8217;t you see this illegal immigration issue is tearing us apart? it is not bringing anyone together. It is a very passionate issue on both sides. This is not something most people will ever come to an agreement on. This will leave bitter stains for generations to come. Resentment on both sides. This dream act only enlarges the resentment on the american side. To give in state tuition privileges to someone who not an American citizen&#8230;.don&#8217;t you hear how crazy that sounds? That is just insane.! Honestly all I can do is shake my head in amazement we are even having such a discussion. Unbelievable</p>
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		<title>By: Jacques</title>
		<link>http://urbangrounds.com/2007/09/dream-act-dying/#comment-102125</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacques</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Sep 2007 23:49:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://urbangrounds.com/2007/09/26/dream-act-dying/#comment-102125</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Actually, what nation on earth has as much success in assimilating immigrants as the United States? &lt;/blockquote&gt;

The US invented &#039;&lt;em&gt;the melting pot&lt;/em&gt; &#039;cause it needed to..

&lt;blockquote&gt;Guest worker programs, most assuredly, are not and will lead us to the disaster of a European-style permanent immigrant underclass.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

This happened in the 60&#039;s and early 70&#039;s only and to &#039;melt in Europe&#039; is a bit harder - it actually has a history. 

Furthermore some nationalities have less problems to fit in, like Turkish, Surinamese, Chinese and Korean for others like Moroccan it&#039;s much harder.

&lt;strong&gt;And how about this:&lt;/strong&gt;

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.wheretogoamsterdam.com/index.php?option=com_frontpage&amp;Itemid=1&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Amsterdam again city with the most nationalities (177) in the world&lt;/a&gt;

&lt;em&gt;The inhabitants of Amsterdam have together 177 different nationalities. This is up 1 from 2006.&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Actually, what nation on earth has as much success in assimilating immigrants as the United States? </p></blockquote>
<p>The US invented &#8216;<em>the melting pot</em> &#8217;cause it needed to..</p>
<blockquote><p>Guest worker programs, most assuredly, are not and will lead us to the disaster of a European-style permanent immigrant underclass.</p></blockquote>
<p>This happened in the 60&#8242;s and early 70&#8242;s only and to &#8216;melt in Europe&#8217; is a bit harder &#8211; it actually has a history. </p>
<p>Furthermore some nationalities have less problems to fit in, like Turkish, Surinamese, Chinese and Korean for others like Moroccan it&#8217;s much harder.</p>
<p><strong>And how about this:</strong></p>
<p><a href="http://www.wheretogoamsterdam.com/index.php?option=com_frontpage&amp;Itemid=1" rel="nofollow">Amsterdam again city with the most nationalities (177) in the world</a></p>
<p><em>The inhabitants of Amsterdam have together 177 different nationalities. This is up 1 from 2006.</em></p>
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		<title>By: no2liberals</title>
		<link>http://urbangrounds.com/2007/09/dream-act-dying/#comment-102124</link>
		<dc:creator>no2liberals</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Sep 2007 23:26:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://urbangrounds.com/2007/09/26/dream-act-dying/#comment-102124</guid>
		<description>Henh...believe as you wish.
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/signingstatements.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Presedential Signing Statements-Frequently Asked Questions.&lt;/a&gt;
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.law.uchicago.edu/posner-signing-statements.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Signing Statements: It&#039;s a President&#039;s Right.&lt;/a&gt;

As for this legislation, it is an abomination for a free and sovereign nation, and no sob stories will alter my opinion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Henh&#8230;believe as you wish.<br />
<a href="http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/signingstatements.php" rel="nofollow">Presedential Signing Statements-Frequently Asked Questions.</a><br />
<a href="http://www.law.uchicago.edu/posner-signing-statements.html" rel="nofollow">Signing Statements: It&#8217;s a President&#8217;s Right.</a></p>
<p>As for this legislation, it is an abomination for a free and sovereign nation, and no sob stories will alter my opinion.</p>
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		<title>By: Dianne</title>
		<link>http://urbangrounds.com/2007/09/dream-act-dying/#comment-102094</link>
		<dc:creator>Dianne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Sep 2007 19:49:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://urbangrounds.com/2007/09/26/dream-act-dying/#comment-102094</guid>
		<description>The Dream Act has a rather long history and has been written, rewritten several times on a federal basis but the states, well they have taken it upon themselves to enact their own dream acts...my own Kansas being one of them.  One state, California, spends $100 million annually to subsidize the college education of illegal immigrants .
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Immigration/bg2069.cfm

I&#039;m sure Preston finds this chicken feed.  Well, that chicken feed comes from my taxes, Preston.  But, I can handle it, although grudgingly.  What pisses me off is that my kids can&#039;t.  They&#039;re already struggling and paying taxes and to add insult to injury are educating illegals at the expense of their own kids.

Doesn&#039;t anybody care about Americans anymore?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Dream Act has a rather long history and has been written, rewritten several times on a federal basis but the states, well they have taken it upon themselves to enact their own dream acts&#8230;my own Kansas being one of them.  One state, California, spends $100 million annually to subsidize the college education of illegal immigrants .<br />
<a href="http://www.heritage.org/Research/Immigration/bg2069.cfm" rel="nofollow">http://www.heritage.org/Research/Immigration/bg2069.cfm</a></p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure Preston finds this chicken feed.  Well, that chicken feed comes from my taxes, Preston.  But, I can handle it, although grudgingly.  What pisses me off is that my kids can&#8217;t.  They&#8217;re already struggling and paying taxes and to add insult to injury are educating illegals at the expense of their own kids.</p>
<p>Doesn&#8217;t anybody care about Americans anymore?</p>
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