This is such a joke. I hope the majority of people in this country are smart enough to see through this scam, but I fear not. Some states, like Wisconsin, use more than half of their Schip funds for adults.

I’m all for national health care, but folks, let’s do it above the table and include everyone.

Left by Dianne on October 8th, 2007 at 5:10 pm

President Bush told Congress back in July, that he would veto this legislation if it had the big price tag and provisions for coverage of anyone other than the poorest children in this country, a position I did and still do support.
SCHIP began life as a $40billion ten year program, for the poorest children, whose parents didn’t qualify for Medicare and couldn’t afford health insurance. Now, Congress wants to make it a $35billion five year program, a fifty seven percent increase, and children can be defined as old as twenty five years of age, the poverty level is increased, making more eligible, and can even include adults, as the SCHIP in it’s previous iteration gave states broad flexibility in defining their policies, as will continue.
I am opposed to socialist health care in this country for numerous reasons, but primarily because I know how poorly government run programs perform, shortages of service will always occur, not to mention the growth of government, which never seems to get smaller, as judged by this once innocuous and purposeful program.
Here is an excerpt from a column by Kimberley Strassel on what the new and not-so-improved SCHIP really means.

Schip is the first step. The program, with its $25 billion budget, was originally designed to provide insurance to only the poorest children. Democrats want to throw an additional $60 billion at it, expanding Schip’s rolls by three million. They would expand eligibility so much that as many as half joining would drop private insurance to do so. Even adults could sign up.

Next: Even as Democrats work to expand Schip to cover older Americans, they’d expand Medicare to cover younger Americans. House Energy and Commerce Committee Chairman John Dingell is said to have recently floated the idea of allowing the struggling Big Three auto makers to enroll workers in Medicare at the age of 55, or 10 years early. Consider this a pilot program for dropping Medicare’s age limit overall and instantly subjecting tens of millions more Baby Boomers to the government’s tender care.

Democrats will meanwhile argue the only way to pay for Schip and other expanded programs is to gut Medicare Advantage and similar free-market reforms. See how clever? Swallow up ever more Americans into federal programs, banish any last vestiges of popular market plans, and voilà! It is Hillarycare! Only nobody ever had to use the dreaded word!

This article briefly mentions a free market plan introduced by Senator Robert Bennett(R-Utah), Healthy American Act, Senate bill 334, which of course, is languishing in a Democrat controlled Senate.

It all starts with tax reform that empowers the individual. From that, we can get portability, individual access, incentives for healthy behavior, and market forces. The Healthy Americans Act embraces these principles; that health care coverage can be affordable, the uninsured can be covered, and, not insignificantly, our economy will be strengthened.

If any proposal attempts to take away free market based health care, I will oppose it completely.
Here are some documentaries and videos, concerning the perils of single-payer health care.
The Lemon.
Two Women.
A Short Course In Brain Surgery.
Dead Meat.

Left by no2liberals on October 8th, 2007 at 8:02 pm

I meant to add to my previous post, that I believe the Democrats don’t necessarily want this legislation approved, nearly as much as they want the issue of the GOP not caring about poor children. Always with the intent to fool the American voter, about their intentions, and their characaterization of the GOP as heartless.

Left by no2liberals on October 8th, 2007 at 8:05 pm

Then there is Mark Steyn’s take on it.

Left by no2liberals on October 8th, 2007 at 9:44 pm

It’s so wrong not to provide low-cost (or free) health care to every US citizen, if you can’t see or better feel that - you’re just hopeless. People who are against this just make me sick in my stomach.

And then we have the ’socialist’ word here again. Health care doesn’t have a political colour.

I was really upset to see (SiCKO) 9/11 rescue workers go to Cuba to get some medical treatment because NY wouldn’t pay for it. I’m a big guy, and I don’t cry easily, but I did and I am not ashamed to tell you.

Your health care system is so great, lots and lots of people die unnecessarily every day.

Oh, and I didn’t told you before: I’m a socialist and proud of it. And remember the lefties in the USA are still right wing to me.

Yee-Haw!

Left by Jacques on October 9th, 2007 at 1:15 am

You are right when you say that it is the parents job to provide for their children but in some or should I say many cases that is easier said than done.

I am currently going to college to one day have a better job and be able to provide health benefits for my children but at this moment I don’t have that luxury and my husbands employer does not offer health insurance. He does not make no $45,000.00 a year either. We live in a two bedroom apartment with two children. They share a room. Every penny my husband makes goes to bills. We don’t go out to eat. We only have one vehicle which I drive.

My husband has a work truck that he drives at work. I have to have my kids on medicaid at this moment and why not….we do pay taxes. I feel more comfortable knowing that my tax money is helping me out and other people who are in real need like myself than those people out there that have their children in $200.00 shoes, Sean Jean clothes with gold chains around thier necks who keep having more and more children just to continuously take advantage of the system. It’s people like that who make me sick to my stomach. I wish I could afford to put my kids in private school because our public school system today is a joke.

I hate that I have to take my boys to lazy doctors because it is nearly impossible to find a good doctor who accepts medicaid. So you may think that it is not the governments job to provide medical benefits but it’s good to know that my kids can get antibiotic when they are sick right now while I need it. As soon as I finish school then I will have a good job that offers medical benefits and then someone else can benefit from the help that I have been recieving. Until then….I will take what I can get. I have paid taxes long enough as have my parents who have never had to ask the government for help. There is nothing wrong with government help as long as you only use it temporarily knowing that you are doing everything necessary to be able to provide for yourself. By the way….my kids are on medicaid but my husband and I have no medical benefits.

If we get sick….we have to ride it out and hope for the best.

Left by Texasgal on October 9th, 2007 at 11:58 am

Texasgal,

First, I’m glad to read your story. It doesn’t appear that you are abusing the system. However, you might be interested to know that my own daughter (in Kansas) didn’t qualify for medicaid when she was a single mother, making $23,000/year, who also didn’t receive a dime from child support. I was her child support. Thankfully, she has married and has a fine husband with a decent job making about $55,000 year. They have 3 kids. They don’t qualify for medicaid either or even Schip in Kansas. They pay about $300 dollars a month for family health insurance through his work, live in a conservative manner, but they do make it by being very careful with their money. Now, if they lived in Minnesota or New York they might qualify for Schip and especially under the new Democratic plan, but alas Kansas isn’t as generous.

My point here is that the program is, in my humble opinion, not fair. If they’re going to cover people making up to $83,000 per year in some states, and even childless people, why shouldn’t my daughter and her family be covered?

I believe in national health care, but this program is not fair. Before we expand it, let’s look at the whole issue of health care for everyone.

Left by Dianne on October 9th, 2007 at 2:50 pm

To Texasgal and Dianne, it has been lost in the reporting, that President Bush actually called for an increase in funding for SCHIP, just not the budget busting increases Congress has approved.
I still believe the Dems want the issue for political purposes more than they want the SCHIP program. They’ve had months to work on a compromise to avoid a veto and the attempt to override it. I predict the override will fail, and the GOP votes they need will not be forthcoming. The Dems have bungled the PR so badly, that the word is getting out on what they are attempting to do, and their using a young boy as their prop without properly covering the tracks has backfired.
icwhatudo started the unraveling of the Graeme Foster story, by doing simple research that the Baltimore Sun reporter failed or refused to do. Here is his reply to the leftists that have attacked his efforts, and it was readers of the FR blog that emailed and called reporters and radio talk shows.

Left by no2liberals on October 9th, 2007 at 8:09 pm

Dianne,

That really sucks that your daughter has to go through that. I can’t even imagine not being able to take my babies to the doctor if I need to.

I am grateful that the state of Texas is able to help us in our time of need right now. I think what is even worse is that most of these doctors and hospitals charge more to the patients with no insurance than to the ones with. It really doesn’t make much sense.

I just had surgery last week for a tubal pregnancy that needed to be removed.

I went in to the ER with lots of pain and no insurance and had to answer a million questions about me and my husbands income before they would even give me pain medicine. Luckily they were able to get me on emergency medicaid for the day to pay for the surgery.

But I can’t even afford to go to my follow up visit to be sure that my incisions are healing properly because they want to charge me $200.00 just so the doctor can look at my stitches and then send me home. I really don’t think that a visit like that should cost that much money. It’s ridiculous. Like I said before…all I can do is hope for the best.

I pray every single day that God please keep me and my husband in good health and keep us from getting injured in any way. We would be in a world of hurt if something like that were to happen to one of us.

Left by Texasgal on October 10th, 2007 at 2:22 am

Texas Gal — I don’t have the answer to our nation’s health care situation. I just strongly oppose the type of socialized medicine that Hillary Care is proposing.

You sound like good people, though. And I really hope that everything works out for you.

Left by Robbie on October 10th, 2007 at 8:02 am

Disturbing Health Care Facts

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention actually reported that 54.5 million people were uninsured for at least part of the year.

18,000 Americans will die this year simply because they’re uninsured.

The United States is ranked #37 as a health system by the World Health Organization.

Canadians live three years longer than Americans.

Drugs in England only cost $10

In a study of older Americans and Brits, the Brits had less of almost every major disease. Even the poorest Brit can expect to live longer than the richest American.

A baby born in El Salvador has a better chance of surviving than a baby born in Detroit.

Like Canadians and Brits, the French live longer than Americans

There is a company in France, SOS Medecins, which will perform doctor house calls at any time

The government initially refused to pay for the health care of 9/11 volunteers, because they were not on the government payroll. It remains difficult for the volunteers to access the $50 million fund that has been appropriated for their care

American officials claim that detainees at Guantanamo Bay receive excellent health care.

Cuba is one of the most generous countries in providing doctors to the third world.

In the U.S., health care costs run nearly $7,000 per person. But in Cuba, they spend around $251 per person.

In Cuba, access to health care is universal.

Cuba has a lower infant mortality rate and a longer average lifespan than the United States.

Read more - Check the Facts

Left by Jacques on October 10th, 2007 at 10:01 am

Jaques,

Curious that there seems to be a debate going on right now in Canada that would move them closer to what the US has. From the NY Times:

” Canada remains the only industrialized country that outlaws privately financed purchases of core medical services. Prime Minister Stephen Harper and other politicians remain reluctant to openly propose sweeping changes even though costs for the national and provincial governments are exploding and some cancer patients are waiting months for diagnostic tests and treatment.

But a Supreme Court ruling last June — it found that a Quebec provincial ban on private health insurance was unconstitutional when patients were suffering and even dying on waiting lists — appears to have become a turning point for the entire country.

“The prohibition on obtaining private health insurance is not constitutional where the public system fails to deliver reasonable services,” the court ruled.

In response, the Quebec premier, Jean Charest, proposed this month to allow private hospitals to subcontract hip, knee and cataract surgery to private clinics when patients are unable to be treated quickly enough under the public system. The premiers of British Columbia and Alberta have suggested they will go much further to encourage private health services and insurance in legislation they plan to propose in the next few months.

Private doctors across the country are not waiting for changes in the law, figuring provincial governments will not try to stop them only to face more test cases in the Supreme Court.

One Vancouver-based company started a large for-profit family medical clinic specializing in screening and preventive medicine here last November. It is planning to set up three similar clinics — in Toronto, Ottawa and London, Ontario — next summer and nine more in several other cities by the end of 2007. Private diagnostic clinics offering MRI procedures are opening around the country. ”

As far as life expectancy, Far too many factors influence that to make an accurate correlation; and the reason drugs are so much cheaper in the rest of the world is because we pay for all the research and the rest of the world is allowed to infringe on our patents. You’re welcome!

Left by Patriot 123 on October 10th, 2007 at 2:39 pm

“54.5 million people were uninsured …”
wouldn’t that also mean that roughly 5/6 of the population are finding their way in the current healthcare system all year round and about 90% of americans were insured for at least part of the year?

“18,000 Americans will die this year simply because they’re uninsured.”
not to bag on the cdc, but what equation might figure a stat like this and isn’t it rather likely, if not at least possible, that important variables may not have been accounted for? and who are “americans”; those of legal status only?

“The United States is ranked #37 as a health system by the World Health Organization.”
how many of the top 36 represents a more homogenious composition of population in terms of ethnicity, religion, and language? how many of those top 36 have a history/present of embracing immigrants more liberally than the us? how many people actually express a desire to go to these superior countries vs. want to come to america? how many of them have even a fraction of the us’s population? ***only one of the 36 ranked above the us has a population over 100 million, japan, and it still has less than half of americas population.***

“Canadians live three years longer than Americans.”
canada has roughly 33 million people, about 10% of americas population.

“Drugs in England only cost $10″
lots of american drugs cost about $10: many cost less.

“In a study of older Americans and Brits, the Brits had less of almost every major disease. Even the poorest Brit can expect to live longer than the richest American.”
america: population about 300 million +
uk: population about 60 million (roughly 20%)
i wonder which countries healthcare system needs to be more complex!

“A baby born in El Salvador(country) has a better chance of surviving than a baby born in Detroit(city).”
…and a baby born in america has a better chance of surviving than a baby born in urban el salvador.

“Like Canadians and Brits, the French live longer than Americans”
uk population: roughly 60 million(about 20% of americas population)
french population:62 million(maybe 21% of the us’s)

“There is a company in France, SOS Medecins, which will perform doctor house calls at any time”
there are american primary care physicians that will also do this.

“The government initially refused to pay for the health care of 9/11 volunteers, because they were not on the government payroll. It remains difficult for the volunteers to access the $50 million fund that has been appropriated for their care”
can you name me a few of those who volunteered who are currently denied health care for injuries/illness related to said efforts? better yet, just name one!

“American officials claim that detainees at Guantanamo Bay receive excellent health care.”
well are americans (and their government) compassionate or heartless? make up your mind flip-flopper!

“Cuba is one of the most generous countries in providing doctors to the third world.”
and their human rights record is currently tip top too, correct?

“In the U.S., health care costs run nearly $7,000 per person. But in Cuba, they spend around $251 per person.”
this could be cause for that huge wave of americans all seeking medical care in cuba, which is only about 90 miles from the us, right?

“In Cuba, access to health care is universal.”
while free speach, freedom of the press, freedom of movement, freedom from cruel/unusual punishment, and freedom from a half century of dictatorship(by one man) are struggling just a bit.

“Cuba has a lower infant mortality rate and a longer average lifespan than the United States.”
cuba also has roughly 11 million people compared to the 300+ million in america. additionally cuba’s health care system is ranked behind america by the world health organization, that you cited.

Left by adam on October 10th, 2007 at 2:53 pm

texasgal,
i second robbies sentiment about you sounding like a standup citizen and i also agree w/ dianne in that you don’t appear to be breaking laws or abusing the system.
when reading your post though, i can’t help but wonder a few things. do you work, and if so how many hours do you and your husband put in? who takes care of the kids? how many classes do you take and when do you expect to graduate? have you or your husband looked into new employment that may have health care benefits? ***did you consider how to provide health care for your children before becoming pregnant? if not on your first, perhaps on your second?***
a little consideration/preperation go a long way. i will gladly support my tax dollars helping folks like you and your family but the agency providing assistance should be consistently informed as to all of this and i believe a reasonable amount of time should limit your collection of the benefits.

Left by adam on October 10th, 2007 at 3:12 pm

Nice if you got your facts right. The state is picking up tuition for the two kids, who both suffered brain damage because of the car accident they were in. The family pulls in between $45K-$55K a year. They are paying mortgages. Their house was purchased for $55K. Frost is a woodworker, and remodeled his own kitchen. They qualified for the S-chip program.

They did everything that conservatives claim people ought to do. But kicking a 12-year-old brain-damaged child is what passes for conservative political discourse these days, I guess. Mark Steyn did say that the kid was “fair game,” and it’s obvious a lot of you feel that way.

Left by Dr.Dawg on October 10th, 2007 at 6:05 pm

Henh, yeah Cuba has a very low infant mortality rate, because they abort six out of ten pregnancies.
I can’t take seriously any discussion about the wonders of Cuban health care. It’s a communist country with a tyrant as it’s leader.
Castro has been “peeped out”…again!
Cuban Mythology.

You may not know this, as most Cubans don’t, but my mom prepared the payroll for several thousand people in a big agro-”business” in Cuba. Bottom line is, there’s no free healthcare at all. Out of every paycheck, the Cuban government takes 12% out for the “free” healthcare. (And another 12% out for retirement, and another 9.09% for the “free” vacation, but that is repaid when the vacation is taken.) So, come to think of it, Cuba has a 24% percent flat tax, they just don’t tell the people.

Posted by: Sorge at March 12, 2005 10:29 AM

As for Canada, it seems the U.S. is increasingly the safety valve for the health services they can’t provide.
Click here, and go to the video that says “high risk pregnancies.”

Left by no2liberals on October 10th, 2007 at 6:10 pm

Dr.Dawg, there is much more to the families financial condition than is being reported on. Such as the fact that the father bought the house years before they were married, and she paid over fifty thousand dollars in 1999 to be added to the deed. Odd that…no?
On their personal info, they apparently own another residence, and they also have a LLC.
Call it jumping on the kid if you wish, I call it jumping on a potential fraud. The parents offered up their son as a propagandist for the Dems, they should have known it wouldn’t pass unexamined.
This is from the guy that got the investigation started.
Can you provide a link that supports the claim that the boy’s school is being paid for by the state?
What of the personal injury insurance from the auto insurance, why did their health insurance become involved?
This sort of propaganda sob piece used to work really well for politicians, but this is the age of the innernut, and frauds don’t pass as easily.

Left by no2liberals on October 10th, 2007 at 6:21 pm

Flip Flopper? I was making a point Adam - Here is it again in detail, if you don’t get it, educate yourself.

1. The detainees at the Guantanamo Bay detention facility include bin Laden’s bodyguards, bomb makers, terrorist trainers and facilitators, and other suspected terrorists*.

2. More money is spent on meals for detainees than on the U.S. troops stationed there. Detainees are offered up to 4,200 calories a day. The average weight gain per detainee is 20 pounds.

3. The Muslim call to prayer sounds five times a day. Arrows point detainees toward the holy city of Mecca.

4. Detainees receive medical, dental, psychiatric, and optometric care at U.S. taxpayers’ expense. In 2005, there were 35 teeth cleanings, 91 cavities filled, and 174 pairs of glasses issued.

5. The International Committee of the Red Cross visits detainees at the facility every few months. More than 20,000 messages between detainees and their families have been exchanged.

6. Recreation activities include basketball, volleyball, soccer, pingpong, and board games. High-top sneakers are provided.

7. Departing detainees receive a Koran, a jean jacket, a white T-shirt, a pair of blue jeans, high-top sneakers, a gym bag of toiletries, and a pillow and blanket for the flight home.

8. Entertainment includes Arabic language TV shows, including World Cup soccer games. The library has 3,500 volumes available in 13 languages — the most requested book is “Harry Potter.”

9. Guantanamo is the most transparent detention facility in the history of warfare. The Joint Task Force has hosted more than 1,000 journalists from more than 40 countries.

10. In 2005, Amnesty International stated that “the detention facility at Guantanamo Bay has become the gulag of our times.”

- Ten Facts About Guantanamo,” Department of Defense, September 14, 2006

Left by Jacques on October 10th, 2007 at 6:57 pm

Jaques,

The government initially refused to pay for the health care of 9/11 volunteers, because they were not on the government payroll. It remains difficult for the volunteers to access the $50 million fund that has been appropriated for their care

EXACTLY!!! And this is the government that you want me to trust with MY healthcare? Governments can not even get out of their own way. They are not the solution to anything. Liberals seem to love tasking the government with everything; that way they can continue ignoring the problem while telling themselves: “problem solved”. It is just like the slaughter in Sudan. Rather than screaming for a military intervention, they say “let the UN handle it. Problem solved”. And still people are slaughtered while the elitists at the UN drink sherry and eat brie.

My father was a VietNam vet and is currently in a nursing home. We applied for his war time pension that was supposed to help him pay for nursing assistance in this situation. Thirteen months later and his personal money is almost gone and still no checks.

I recently attended a fund raiser for a co-worker whose son was diagnosed with lukemia. He had a lingering cold that he could not kick and so his parents took him in for testing. A few days later, they received a call to get him to the hospital immediately so they could start chemo. He has a very rare adult form of the disease that requires experimental drugs not covered by insurance. Everyone at work is helping to pay for it.

My point with this is that under our current system, he was able to see a doctor quickly and not have to wait months for the test results (In Canada he would have died waiting). And unlike in Canada, his parents have the option of paying for the treatment they choose for him. If my father had had the option of privately paying into his own retirement system rather than depending on the government and all the money that Social Security had robbed from him for all those years, he too would be in better shape.

No thanks, keep your inefficient government system that wraps dying people in red tape rather than letting them chose their own path.

Left by Patriot 123 on October 10th, 2007 at 7:45 pm

thanks for the interest in our detainees, though i can’t say i understand the point of what appears to be an obsession. on the other hand, your opinion on this unrelated topic doesn’t matter all that much, if at all.
so revisiting the thread from your “educated” tangent, i’m surprised your only rebuttal is to this comment. what say you to all of the rebuttals to your “educated” michael moore quotes? cat got your tongue? the fact is that you and your goofy socialist comrades can spin truth all you like but you have no idea what your talking about.

“Here is it again in detail, if you don’t get it, educate yourself.” i’m sure english isn’t your first language but if your going to use it, doing so coherantly might help.

Left by adam on October 10th, 2007 at 8:32 pm

Dang Adam, I never thought it possible, or that it could ever happen, but you did it. You used the words “educated” and “Michael Moore” in the same sentence.
You da’man!
LOL!

Left by no2liberals on October 10th, 2007 at 10:44 pm

Here’s an interesting link to more info on SCHIP.

Left by no2liberals on October 10th, 2007 at 11:19 pm

“i’m sure english isn’t your first language but if your going to use it, doing so coherantly might help.”

Not even my second.. and probably you mean ‘coherently‘ instead of ‘coherantly‘ ;-).

Watching Michael Moore is part of my self education, as reading a right wing blog like this is.

The point is: The US gives 9/11 terrorists much better health care treatment than to its citizens.

What about all those people (50 million) who don’t have insurance? Don’t you care about them?

Your health care system is wrong and inhuman. And, as I wrote before, it shouldn’t matter whether you’re a Democrat or a Republican. The system should be available to everyone who’s sick at low or no cost.

What can be wrong with that?

Left by Jacques on October 11th, 2007 at 6:18 am

Your health care system is wrong and inhuman.

I am assuming you mean “inhumane”?

Please understand that NO ONE, not even illegal aliens are denied health care in the US. Don’t confuse health care and health insurance. Those who can not afford it get medicare or medicaid. Illegals can go to any emergency room. Those who are uninsured are those who can afford it but choose not to due to other priorities.

Left by Patriot 123 on October 11th, 2007 at 7:41 am

The kid’s family is fair game — not the kids them themselves. The parents and the Democratic leadership put this kid and his family into the public limelight by having the kid read a Democratic party penned radio message.

Sorry, but just because you send a kid out to do the work of men, doesn’t mean that the kid and his story become immune to scrutiny.

The family purchased a home back in the 90s for $55K. It’s estimated value today is $300K. That’s a nice bit of equity me thinks.

Not to mention the equity in a $160K business.

Once again — this family is not the face and should not be the face of “needy” or the “working poor” in our nation.

They are anything but. And criticism of them is fair since the Dems are using them as the face of their campaign against Bush (who, by the was prepared to increase funding for S-CHIP, but just not the way that the Dems wanted it).

The very first responsibility of a parent to their child is to ensure their health and well-being. Parents who cannot afford to do so, shouldn’t be having children. And those who cannot afford to do so, should definitely quit having additional children.

Yeah, that’s a tough thing to say, isn’t it? But it’s the truth and needs to be said.

Left by Robbie on October 11th, 2007 at 8:54 am

Hey has anyone ever heard of the Texas state pool of insurance? it is run by blue cross. it takes people that can’t be covered. really a last resort but still out there. Look, health care is of the utmost importance in lives, but letting the government control it when they have shown time and time and time again to completely mismanage programs is crazy. A simple fix I NEVER hear anyone say is make congress pass a law that health insurance providers can not turn someone down for an individual policy. simple. of course the person still has to pay premiums but that would make insurance available to all. the way it is right now as an individual if something serious is wrong with you insurance can and does turn you away. that is wrong. but yes this does not solve the problem of the poor who could not pay. so congress could mandate no individual gets turned down and for a period of few years subsidize your premiums until you get on your feet or get a job with ins. that make much more sense that having the government come in with there wasteful ways and destroy a system that at the moment is still the best health care in the world. I completely fear the gov. controlling our heath care, I think that would be insane to the 10th power to hand that over to them. Look at social security what a black hole money pit that has become…don’t you think after a couple decades our health care would not look exactly the same…just another money grab with total mismanagement at the core.???? think about what you wish for….I would completely opt out of social security today and say keep all the thousands they stole just to let me out…you would be a millionaire many times over if you invested all the money that is taken in the name of social security..that should be a crime.

Left by Marc on October 11th, 2007 at 12:41 pm

I’m with you Mark- actually, I will even let the state continue bending me over for another 5 years if they will please set me free!

Left by Patriot 123 on October 11th, 2007 at 1:50 pm

Yeah, buddy!
We need that socialist health care. We could be just like the Brits and the Cubans.

Left by no2liberals on October 11th, 2007 at 8:57 pm

“I am assuming you mean “inhumane”?”

Thanks.

The rest of the free world is wrong and you, conservatives, are right! Have fun with your health care (when you’re out of a job… when your 65..)

#37 rating you know..

Wake up to reality boyz….

Left by Jacques on October 11th, 2007 at 10:39 pm

Adam,

First of all I was working when I had both of my children for a whopping $8.00 an hour but had medical coverage which paid for my maternity expenses. I am not one of those women who keep having more and more kids either. I have two boys and would love to one day have that little girl that my heart has always desired but know that I cannot afford it so I went on ahead and had a tubal ligation to keep us from ending up in even a deeper hole.

After the second child my husband lost the job he had at the time due to layoffs and had struggled to find another one but took what he could get to keep food on the table. And in case you hadn’t noticed, $8.00 an hour will not pay for childcare in this country.

Childcare is extremely and ridiculously expensive so it just made more sense to quit my job and stay home with the boys. The month after I quit my job, I enrolled in college classes to work on getting an education so that I could eventually have a degree and get a better paying job. Not to mention making me a good role model for my children. In the meantime my husband is still working for a company that does not offer medical benefits. He is a glazier and because the turnover rate is so high in that field most glass companies won’t provide medical benefits. My husband has a GED and that is his highest education level. I already have two years of college under my belt. Another two years and I have my bachelors degree.

At this time he is still trying to find a better job but since he is the only one bringing in income at the moment then it’s not like he can take time off to go job hunting. I don’t think there is anything wrong with having my boys on medicaid while I work on getting my education. Like I said…I’ve paid taxes before as have my parents and my husband. So I don’t feel the least bit guilty for using the system for a couple of years while I get up on my feet. What else do you presume I do? Have my children go without healthcare?

Left by Texasgal on October 12th, 2007 at 1:24 am

The rest of the free world is wrong and you, conservatives, are right! Have fun with your health care (when you’re out of a job… when your 65..)

That is the fundamental difference in thinking between liberals and conservatives. Liberals think people are incapable of caring for themselves while conservatives believe that decision making should be left to the individual. Again, I have always provided for my family and am quite adequately prepared for the future (but thanks for your concern), while the government has never failed to let me down, make me wait in line, and shaft me with red tape.
Funny how the US economy is sinking into the sewer as we move towards socialism - more social security/medicare/medicaid/hillary care, and yet even Canada and England are considering moving back towards allowing some private insurance and private pay clinics. France is trying to increase the work week and the former Soviet block countries have embraced the flat tax and are enjoying an economic boom that everyone is allowed to participate in.

Left by Patriot 123 on October 12th, 2007 at 7:03 am

“I have always provided for my family and am quite adequately prepared for the future (but thanks for your concern),”

50 million Americans are uninsured. What about them? If you don’t agree with the number, okay - fill in your own number, that’s not the most important thing.

But still what about them? Do you have an answer? An Idea? Something?

What about all those people who can’t afford health care?

They all should get a job can’t be the answer, because most people don’t get the benefits. And how do you want to pay $700 and up a month on a low paid job income when you have a wife and two kids?

So, if you’ve an answer I’m genuinely interested. What I see here is conservatives bashing liberal ideas but I don’t see any conservative solutions or answers to the problem. Because it’s a problem or isn’t it.

And about other countries, Europe: I’m not saying it’s paradise there - because it isn’t. But they do a damn better job in taking care of each other.

People in a modern civilized society should take care of the weakest and poorest. And it makes you feel good - helping others.

Left by Jacques on October 12th, 2007 at 9:07 am

50 million Americans are uninsured. What about them? If you don’t agree with the number, okay - fill in your own number, that’s not the most important thing.

If you had read an earlier post, you would have seen that I already answered that question. No person - legal or otherwise - is denied health care. Please stop confusing health care and health insurance. Everyone is taken care of. The difference is that the socialist system takes away choice. For those who truly can not afford to pay their own way, it is absolutely the citizenry’s responsibility to help. Societies will invariably crumble if the truly helpless are ignored. But the socialist model is wasteful and inefficient for those that can afford it. The system that is being proposed here moves 1 in 3 people off private insurance and on to the government system. Why should I have to pay for someone who is making twice as much as I am but chooses to spend his money on drugs or expensive cars?

Left by Patriot 123 on October 12th, 2007 at 9:25 am

Everybody is taking care of? How? Are you on (illegal)drugs or something? Do you live in the US?

Why pay for insurance if everybody is taken care of anyway, sounds like a ‘communist’ Cuba system to me.

Well, okay - Patriot, believe in whatever you believe but, no offence, I’m done with your point of view on health care. We differ too much.

Left by Jacques on October 12th, 2007 at 11:12 am

“Everybody is taking care of? How? Are you on (illegal)drugs or something? Do you live in the US?”

are you kidding Jacques??? ever hear how much money is lost in hospitals by people who come in for service and never or can’t pay?????? ever hear of that? patriot is right, anyone who is sick in this country can go into a emergency room and be treated. now if you are talking about a cradle to grave government nanny state then yeah I don’t want that……read our founding documents…we have gotten so far from what this country was set out to do, the federal gov has WAY overstepped is duties and role. …..please answer me this: why with the proven mismanagement government has with OUR money, why on god’s green earth would you dare trust them with your healthcare????? why would a sane person do that? the road to the good life very simple: stay in school, don’t have 5 kids before you are 18, go to college with loans or grants, get out and get a decent job and you will move up the ladder, that’s how we all do it….all good companies will offer some type of heath coverage, that still exists.! this is called a free market..but please why should the government be trusted after the awful mess of social security?? our health care will turn into the complete wasteful mess SS has become..no government controlled health for me…no one even commented on my earlier proposal to have insurance companies have to take you. then have the gov. subsidize your premiums for a few years if you can’t pay them…simple and no nanny state. man what has happened to this strong country??? It used to be a point of pride to never ask the government for anything. Make it on your own, rugged spirit that carved this land into the tower of industrial strength it is..all from nothing but sweat and inventiveness….now it’s the complete opposite, we ask the government to do everything dang thing for us except wipe our butts..sure that is next.

Left by Marc on October 12th, 2007 at 12:37 pm

Everybody is taking care of? How? Are you on (illegal)drugs or something? Do you live in the US?

Yes Jaques, that is a fact, not my opinion. Please feel free to do some checking. It is well documented.

Why pay for insurance if everybody is taken care of anyway, sounds like a ‘communist’ Cuba system to me.

Because I believe in choice and not leaching off the system.

Well, okay - Patriot, believe in whatever you believe but, no offence, I’m done with your point of view on health care. We differ too much.

I agree, I don’t think there is a middle ground between people who have the faith in their fellow countrymen to pull themselves up if given half a chance, and people who think everyone is so helpless that they need the government to micromanage their existence.

now it’s the complete opposite, we ask the government to do everything dang thing for us except wipe our butts..sure that is next.

Marc, that used to be one of my favorite sayings also until I remodeled my bathroom and, on inspection, found that my toilet did not meet federal “gallon per flush” standards. You don’t have to wait any longer for the government to monitor your butt wiping.

Left by Patriot 123 on October 12th, 2007 at 3:08 pm

Marc,

Please give me a few more details on your idea for subsidized/guaranteed insurance. I have done quite a bit of thinking in the past on that and other ideas and of all the ones I have looked at, MSA’s w/disaster insurance make the most sense to me. I like the idea of paying out of pocket (tax free) for all small expenditures under $1500. (Yes Jaques, if you are still there, I know that is a life savings for some people and we are not talking about them. They still qualify for SCHIP under the CURRENT rules). That gives me the option of negotiating with my doctor for a fair price and stops people from clogging up the system with stubbed toes. Let’s face it, the thing that everyone fears is losing their house and life savings to a $500,000 cancer treatment bill. But that is not where the majority of insurance payouts are. They are paid out for the little crap that people waste doctors time on. That is why the socialist model fails so completely - it is free so why not use it any time we want?
Disaster insurance that protects people from losing everything can be had for around $2,000/year and the other $5,000 that you or your employer are paying currently goes into a tax free medical savings account that gains interest and, if you stay healthy and don’t use it, can be treated as a retirement account.

Left by Patriot 123 on October 12th, 2007 at 8:00 pm

OK. admittedly I have not done as much research as you might have, but I believe a large part of the problem is that when an individual tries to get a policy with something already wrong with them they are almost always turned down. so a large percentage of people that could have their own ins. don’t because they can’t get it. yes there are state wide pools I believe in Texas that will take you but not many know of this. But if it were mandated that insurance companies could not turn down an individual sick or not that would help. In addition if this person could prove they could not pay the full premiums THEN the gov. would kick in a little for a set period of months or years until the person got a job that would take them…at least at that point you could say that anyone with any need and smarts could get insurance if they wanted without completely overhauling our medical system. that seems pretty darn simple to me..maybe not possible with all the lobby groups, I am sure the insurance lobby would hate that idea. but too bad I say. it’s either that or costs keep going up or god forbid socialized medicine..and yes that would be a disaster in the long run. I would never trust the gov. again after the complete disaster of social security…I honestly doubt I will ever see all the money I put into that system..it’s insane to think a bloated fat gov. bureaucracy can manage anything better an individual or private business can.

Left by marc on October 12th, 2007 at 10:22 pm