I am outraged!..I just realized on the news last night that this mexican national is the man that committed the hideous crime against a beautiful young woman who played softball with my daughter as a young girl. Elizabeth had no chance at life and neither should he, illegal immigrant or not! After all these years Bush is siding with him over the lives of 2 young women…outrageous. This is his last ditch attempt at saving his own life. My prayers are with Adolph and Melissa, Elizabeth’s parents… May the punishment be swift for him and all of the men who were involved. Feeling sorry I ever voted for Bush or his Dad..never really liked em but…I’m with Fred this year

Left by Beverly Herman on October 10th, 2007 at 8:42 am

I understand W’s deference to a treaty the U.S. has signed onto, and while I won’t give him a pass, I will at least be respectful of the concerns he has to deal with as President.
I certainly hope the SCOTUS comes through with a ruling that is based on our Constitution, and not international treaty.
BTW….build the fence!

Left by no2liberals on October 10th, 2007 at 8:59 am

I would also be very ashamed of voting for him if there were any real alternatives at the time. I wonder what the Mexican government has on him that he would repeatedly sell out our sovereignty.

Left by Patriot 123 on October 10th, 2007 at 9:09 am

This is one of those cases that make it hard for me not to support the death penalty. As for Bush, I’m sorry I ever voted for him but the alternative would have been worse. Kerry probably would have sent the guys home with a first class ticket.

I have to say though, that this is a good case for the Supreme Court. It’ll be real interesting to see how they rule.

Left by Dianne on October 10th, 2007 at 10:07 am

Bush is from New England.

Left by John Jarzemsky on October 10th, 2007 at 10:41 am

Yeah, and he was Governor of Texas when we elected him President.

What’s your point?

Left by Robbie on October 10th, 2007 at 11:07 am

Sorry to break the pattern, but I don’t see what’s the big deal here. The guy is going to rot in jail, he certainly is paying for his actions. I would rather be put to death than live in a max security prison for the rest of my life. Anyway….I find it very odd when I hear Christians supporting the death penalty. Isn’t that a contradiction in terms? What about “Thou shall not kill”? Jesus never wished death on anybody, He even forgave his tormentors and executors, what do you think of that? Was He wrong? How can you call yourself a Christian when your thoughts are so contrary to the Lord’s teaching? Please explain. I don’t mean to be insensitive to the pain of all the family members, and I’m sure if I was one of them I would be wishing truly evil things on the perpetrators, but at the same time it strikes me as contradictory to be a Christian and wish death upon someone else. After all, aren’t we all going to pay for our sins at the end of time? Whether the killers die now or 60 years from now is irrelevant in the eyes of the Lord.

Left by Sam on October 10th, 2007 at 12:50 pm

doesn’t the bible suggest “an eye for an eye”? all men i’ve met, sin, but these things don’t make me a christian. just the same as acting less gracefully than jesus wouldn’t make me less of a christian. you assume that death penalty supporters are christian and that somehow dictates their position.
i don’t know why the whole world watches some clint eastwood and wants to bag on texas. i’m not from there and have only passed through but the law there is clearly documented. if criminals would bother to understand that death could be punishment for crimes like this (and are most likely to be compared to all other states), then they would know the risks involved. if the rest of you bleeding hearts are that concerned about texas law, then move there and act to change it. if you don’t care enough to do anything but bitch, why should anyone listen?

Left by adam on October 10th, 2007 at 1:17 pm

Actually Sam, there are a few issues that are much larger than the life of this piece of filth; such as:

1. Does the President have the authority to override state laws in favor of international treaties.
2. Will illegal foreigners be allowed to ignore our laws? If the authorities are not allowed to ask them their citizenship, they could be allowed to go through a trial and then later request a new trial based on their embassy not being notified if things go badly for them. Anything from the first trial including confessions (as in this case and 50 others) would be disallowed.
3. How much of our legal system are we willing to turn over to international courts?

I am not a Christian so I can not answer to your last question, but the way I see the death penalty is this: As long as it meets with the moral standards of the community, the decision should be left to the survivors of the victim first, and the courts second. The parents of the victim want the execution carried out and if this gives them closure, their wishes should be honored. The moment he made the decision to snuff out two children’s lives, his became forfeit. Anyone with this in them (and he never expressed remorse - referring to the incident as “an adolescent mistake”) is not human and does not deserve consideration as such.

Left by Patriot 123 on October 10th, 2007 at 1:18 pm

As for me, Sam — I’m an agnostic (though one with a healthy respect for the values and teachings of Christianity).

So my belief in and support of the death penalty for scum like Medellin has nothing to do with religion.

Left by Robbie on October 10th, 2007 at 1:22 pm

I wonder if this ruling will just apply to the death penalty or all crimes committed by foreigners. And, I wonder if it will apply to all foreigners in this country or just those here illegally. The broader scope would have tremendous implications. Anybody know?

Left by Dianne on October 10th, 2007 at 1:45 pm

Let me be clear that I am NOT making any connection between Christians (or any other religion) and supporters of the death penalty. They are two different groups. My point is that many who support the death penalty happen to be Christians (as seem to be the case with the first post in this thread, which is the one that I was responding to). I am just asking to any other fellow Christian out there for his/her feelings on this matter. As you can probably tell from my first posting, I am not convinced either way. Yes, when I read about scumbags like Jose Medellin, I do feel they should die, but at the same time I don’t think that’s what Jesus would feel.

As for the other issues involved, I think they are too complex to be decided here, and that’s why the case made it all the way to the Supreme Court, obviously it’s hard to reach an agreement here. But in my very humble opinion, we have to come to terms with the fact that the world is no longer made of isolated kingdoms, we are a truly global village and therefore we cannot completely ignore international agreements. By the same token, being an American citizen, I would like to have the protection offered by that treaty in case I am arrested in another country. But if the US refuses to honor the treaty, other countries would have no reason to do it either, so in the end everybody loses. Please keep in mind that Jose Medellin is not getting out of jail. Now, THAT would be truly shocking.

Left by Sam on October 10th, 2007 at 2:42 pm

Please keep in mind that Jose Medellin is not getting out of jail. Now, THAT would be truly shocking.

And that’s where you would be wrong, Sam.

Texas is one of only four states — along with Alaska, Kansas, and New Mexico — that does not have a “Life without possibility of Parole” sentence.

In Texas, “life” is defined as 40 years. Medellin has already served 14 years of that term. Which means that he could be out when he’s only 58 years old.

Plenty of time for him to brutally rape and strangle more people once he’s out.

Left by Robbie on October 10th, 2007 at 3:02 pm

It doesn’t matter that Medellin never asked for legal counsel. Under the treaty (to which the United States was a signatory at the time of Medellin’s arrest), authorities are required to immediately notify all foreign detainees of their right to legal counsel from within their home country.

Also: chill out. It’s not like Bush is pardoning the guy, he’s ordering a re-opening of the case. A lot of you seem upset not that this guy might go free (becaue he definitely won’t), but that he’s not getting killed FAST enough.

I agree with the above sentiment concerning US adherence to international law.

Left by John Jarzemsky on October 10th, 2007 at 3:06 pm

John, that was my anonymous comment up above…forgot to fill in the field.

Sam, as so many often do, the Sixth Commandment has been distorted to mean something entirely different than it’s original form.
“You shall not murder.”

The commandment “thou shall not kill” (Exodus 20:13; Deuteronomy 5:17), is better understood to mean “you shall not murder,” most modern translations of the Bible rendered it this way. According to the Bible not all killing, the taking of a life, is murder. Murder is the unlawfully taking of human life. The command not to murder applies to human beings, not to killing animals or plant life for food. God gave animals to mankind for his use (Genesis 1:26-30; 9:1-4). But, this does not mean that humans have the right mistreat animals and the environment (Genesis 2:15; Deuteronomy 22:6-7; 25:4; Proverbs 12:10). Under the Old Covenant God allowed the Israelites to kill other humans under very special circumstances such as punishment for certain sins, for example, murder (Exodus 21:12-14, Leviticus 24:17, 21) and adultery (Leviticus 20:10, Deuteronomy 22:22-24). God also allowed the Israelites to engage in warfare and even gave them instructions about waging war (Deuteronomy 20:1-20). God also recognized that humans might accidentally kill each other, and he made provisions for this (Numbers 35:9-34; Deuteronomy 19:1-13).

The primary reason God hates murder is that out of all creation, only human are made in the image of God (Genesis 1:26-27; 9:4-6). Even before the codification of the Ten Commandments at Mount Sinai the murder of other human beings was wrong (Genesis 4:8-12; 4:23-24; 9:4-6; Exodus 1:16-17). While on earth, Jesus spoke out against murder (Matthew 5:21-26; Mark 10:17-19). We also see in the writings of Paul (Romans 1:18, 29-32; 13:8-10; Galatians 5:19-21), James (James 2:8-11; 4:1-3), Peter (1 Peter 4:15-16) and John (Revelation 9:20-21; 21:7-8; 22:14-15) that murder is wrong.

Being a Christian, I am comfortable with being in support of the death penalty for murderers, while I still pity his/her soul, but even more the souls of their victims.
All the considerations of deterring others from committing these sort of crimes, punishment, or revenge/vengeance, I believe are valid, based on different peoples perspectives. For me it is much simpler. You shall not murder is God’s command, it is codified in our laws, and is a very clear rule we all know is present every day. If a person violates that law, it isn’t out of the blue that he is too receive the maximum punishment. Once a man has crossed that threshold of murder, that man can never be the same person he was before, and will find it much easier to kill again.

Left by no2liberals on October 10th, 2007 at 4:51 pm

Fox just reporting that during the Scotus hearings today, the justices asked what they were doing hearing the case if the World Court made decisions for them…VERY GOOD QUESTION.

WTF is up with Bush? Why did he pursue this?

Left by Dianne on October 10th, 2007 at 7:29 pm

It doesn’t matter that Medellin never asked for legal counsel. Under the treaty (to which the United States was a signatory at the time of Medellin’s arrest), authorities are required to immediately notify all foreign detainees of their right to legal counsel from within their home country.

Many states prohibit the authorities from asking a detainee his citizenship. And Medellin had lived most of his life here. Again, the bleeding hearts are getting it both ways:
1. Don’t ask their citizenship so there is no way to know what country they may be from, and then turn around and blame the authorities for not advising them of their rights to council from their embassy.
2. Let’s make every illegal alien a citizen immediately - unless of course it would harm the defense of a child raping murdering scum bag. In that case, let’s say they are a “foreign national”

Left by Patriot 123 on October 10th, 2007 at 7:56 pm

OK. EVERYONE WHO IS VERY ANGRY ABOUT THIS TERRIBLE MURDER. HERE IS WHAT YOU SHOULD DO: CALL THIS PHONE NUMBER (212)-909-6233. THIS IS THE PHONE NUMBER OF THE LAWYER WHO IS DEFENDING JOSE MEDELLIN. CALL THIS LAWYER AND ASK HIM HOW HE CAN SLEEP AT NIGHT, KNOWING HE IS HELPING A MAN WHO RAPED AND MURDERED YOUNG INNOCENT GIRLS. DO IT NOW!! I HOPE THEY ALL DIE A LONG SLOW DEATH AND BURN IN HELL FOR ETERNITY. IT’S NOT FAIR HOW SOMEONE WHO DID SUCH A TERRIBLE THING IS GETTING ALL OF THIS HELP!! HE’S A KILLER..HE SHOULD DIE!!

Left by n/a on October 11th, 2007 at 1:21 am

BY THE WAY ABOUT THE LAWYER, HIS NAME IS: DONALD DONAVAN. CALL HIM, LET HIM KNOW HOW YOU FEEL, IT’S A FREE COUNTRY RIGHT? UNLESS YOU ARE AN INNOCENT GIRL WALKING HOME AT NIGHT… THAT IS BULLSHIT..THESE KILLERS BELONG IN THE ELECTRIC CHAIR!!

Left by n/a on October 11th, 2007 at 1:25 am

IN CASE THE LAWYER (DONALD DONOVAN) DEFENDING JOSE MEDELLIN IS NOT AVAILABLE, YOU CAN ALSO VOICE YOUR OPINION TO HIS E-MAIL OR COMPANY VOICEMAIL WHICH CAN BE FOUND AT: http://www.debevoise.com

THE MORE PEOPLE WHO SPEAK OUT, THE MORE WE ALL HAVE THE POWER TO PUT THESE KILLERS TO DEATH!!!

Left by n/a on October 11th, 2007 at 1:52 am

The reason President Bush is asserting the right to have ones consulate notified when a person is charged with a crime in another country is for the simple reason that United States citizens travel abroad more than the citizens of any other country. As a consequence US citizens face more legal jeopardy on the whole than citizens of other countries. The President wants to ensure that the treaty obligation to notify ones consulate is extended to US citizens when they are charged. The fear is that if the US ignores this provision, then other countries will ignore the provision where US citizens are involved. This treaty clause was inserted in the Vienna Convention for Consular Relations at the insistence of the United States and as a condition for the US signing onto the treaty. As such it seems bitter irony that the US is thrust into the position of enforcing the treaty provisions. However, the worst case scenario is that Medellin gets another hearing. He won’t be walking away.

While no person could condone the underlying crime at issue, the attorney defending the rights of the defendant in this case has more courage in his little finger than anyone who hides behind the veil of anonymity to foment rage at one, like Mr. Donovan, who so honorably serves the Constitution of the United States.

Left by Mark Myles on October 12th, 2007 at 2:11 pm

No one is saying that he should not have been given access to his consulate. Far from it. The point is he never ASKED. I think that every foreign national (even though he had been living as a citizen in this country for 15 years or so) should be given access to his consulate, but I don’t think that the authorities should have to run down a list of 100 things that every defendant has the right to before hearing their confession. I think that every American knows that they have the right to council from their embassy and would ask for that if they got in trouble. Again, what are we to do in states that prohibit law enforcement from asking a detainee his citizenship? Run down the list of every consulate in the country and tell them that if they happen to be a citizen of that country they have the right to contact them?

I think that even the founding fathers knew that no one should be forced to do anything that they found morally reprehensible or objectionable and wrote several “outs” into the constitution; even ways to dissolve the Constitution if it became dysfunctional. I don’t think any of them would applaud someone who could look at the facts of this case, defend him and still sleep at night. Especially if he gets off on a technicality at his new trial - it has happened.

Left by Patriot 123 on October 12th, 2007 at 3:25 pm

I actually don’t think the deat penalty is a good punishment, especially not for child rapers. Now the parents of those girls know that the murderer is dead and that he doesnt have to worrie aobut anything anymore, cause he is dead, while the parents still mourn about their daughters every day.
It would be so much better if people like Medellin where sentenced to life imprisonment, and i mean life without any chance on parol, were they have to be in their cells for about 23,5 hours a day. This would be much worse for them, so better for any relatives of the victims. They should get food once or twice a day and a small bottle of water for the whole day and they shouldnt get any contact with inmates, relatives, ‘friends’ or who so ever.
This would be soooo much better than the death penalty, not because that punishment is inhuman, but because it is too human.

Left by Pascal Luiten on January 16th, 2008 at 3:27 am

This would be soooo much better than the death penalty, not because that punishment is inhuman, but because it is too human.

Oh, can it, anti! Very few murderers want to be executed. And very few family/friends of murder victims want the murderer of their love ones spared. We as a people have determined that the death penalty is an appropriate punishment for murder. What you, or any other euroweenie thinks, is irrelevant.

Left by Anonymous on January 19th, 2008 at 4:48 pm

lol youre not very good in making a statement
‘death penalty is good because we, american ‘people’ (whos leader is some sort of monkey and who love war and killing other people and being fat of fast food and having a very weird accent), have chosen it and europeans (or ‘euroweenies’ :D) dont like it”

wow you made a statement there ROFL :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

if my family is murdered i would much rather see the killer suffer for the rest of his life. If he is dead , there is noone who i could blame anymore….
i think lots of families are with me in that statement.

Left by Pascal Luiten on January 20th, 2008 at 6:04 am

Thank you for proving you are a bigger fool than originally thought.

Left by Anonymous on January 25th, 2008 at 1:57 pm

candice and bob~ if you still read this…

Left by Anonymous on January 30th, 2008 at 10:18 pm

Euroweenies.. lol, I missed that and Pascal fits the bill

Left by Ben on February 13th, 2008 at 6:26 am

When they will rule?

Left by ???? on March 6th, 2008 at 3:16 pm

I have been reading about this guy for YEARS! It happened so close to where I grew up that those girls, could have been my sister or me. No one but the family knows this guy, and we cannot judge someone without knowing them. My main thing here is the issue of Mexico suing the U.S. over those 50 ppl on death row. Re-opening the cases will NOT change the crime it will just cost us millions of tax-payer’s dollars. I am a mexican citizen,but not because I am mexican I am going to stand for something my country is doing that I know is wrong. When you get arrested your rights are read to you and 9 out of 10 times, the criminals are either too stupid to understand them or they just don’t act upon them. Instead of blaming the US for not letting them know of their full rights as mexican citizens, mexico should be thanking us for housing/feeding the monsters that hurt our children.

Question— a while back i stumbled onto a website by his family asking people for support… Irony?… anyways… i wanted to know if any of you know the website?

[Editor --- Well said, Star.

I'm not familiar with the Web site that you're asking about.]

Left by Estrella on March 19th, 2008 at 10:13 am

The court system and appeals process is just prolonging the inevitable which is death by lethal injection. The Texas court system could still grant Medellin a new hearing even though the US Supreme court has decided against that. In the end, it would be for the sake of international politics as the facts in the case will always render him guilty and deserving of the death penalty under Texas law.

It’s really upsetting for the Ertman and Pena families to have to endure such a long wait for justice to be serve but they will have their day eventually.

Left by James on March 25th, 2008 at 12:58 pm

The Texas court system could still grant Medellin a new hearing even though the US Supreme court has decided against that.

If the issue hadn’t been brought up and denied in the lower state courts, the USSC would have been barred from hearing the issue. So, the chances of the state still granting a hearing, is zero to none.

Left by Anonymous on March 26th, 2008 at 1:08 pm

I should have said that Medellin would have been barred from having the USSC hear the issue unless he exhausted the state remedies, which he did. Game over. No new trial/hearing.

Left by Anonymous on March 26th, 2008 at 7:19 pm

First off, let me say that I feel deep sypathies for the families of Jennifer Ertmann and Elizabeth Pena about the loss of their precious daughters. What happened to the two girls is just terrible.

However, I am shocked by the hatred and few intellect and understanding that I can read out of the blog of a “conservative biker and military veteran”.

So Medellin has not asked for his embassy to be contacted though every American would know that he or she has the right to do so when getting into trouble in a foreign country? It’s some kind of relief to finally learn that in your opinion Americans are educated about that, but ever given it a thought that some people are not born under such a lucky star and might not have had the same access to education than Americans from your social environment?

International law be banned? Would you still want to ban international law if it was banned for US citizens getting in trouble with another country’s law while staying abroad? Or does it only have to be banned for foreigners in the US?

The arrogance with which American people ignore international agreements, international law or just common international interests leaves me behind speechless again and again. I wonder if you see the connection that it is exactly this arrogance and ignorance that makes the US a pleasant aim for terrorists… You probably haven’t, but it’s a fact that your policy is determined by national interests while you are not living and interacting alone on this planet. If every nation in the world would act with such a priority to their domestic interests, never willing to step into a compromise for the common better, peace would be a word noone of us could ever experience…

Let’s get back to Medellin… What he did was horrible, but the death penalty won’t solve any problems. Just ask the families of Elizabeth and Jennifer if they found some kind of closure after Derrick Sean O’Brien was executed two years ago. Has this brought back their beloved daughters? No, it hasn’t…

Does the death penalty lower the crime rate on your streets? No, it doesn’t - improving your social system and your knowledge about Human Rights and how hard it was to achieve them during the French Revolution certainly would.

Last but not least, I’ve always been taught that American people are proud of their country and that America is proud of their people. What kind of trust does one nation have in its people when they judge members of their society by one single act they’ve done in their life? Would you like to be judged by only one act you did in your life or isn’t your character rather formed by the sum and complexity of all you actions? Isn’t there a vague chance that Jose Medellin has bettered during his incarceration, even if he gets out at the age of 58 - who tells you he will definitely rape and murder again?

People who are - understandably - shocked by horrendous crimes always call for remorse to be shown, but if it’s shown by an offender it just doesn’t get acknowledged in any way. Strange, isn’t it?

There are a lot of positive things about America, but often enough I don’t understand the attitudes of its people…

Leonie

Left by Leonie on March 26th, 2008 at 11:16 pm

… but ever given it a thought that some people are not born under such a lucky star and might not have had the same access to education than Americans from your social environment?

You ignore the fact that our criminal justice system, including the Miranda rights read to these defendants, affords more rights than the legal system of any foreign country. I have no doubt these creeps were quite familiar with the criminal justice system, either personally, or through their peers, and not some poor little babes you falsely make them out to be.

Would you still want to ban international law if it was banned for US citizens getting in trouble with another country’s law while staying abroad?

Again, our laws provide more protections than international laws. Regardless, the simple solution is for Americans not to go to a foreign country and rape, torture, and murder young girls. If they do, as far as I’m concerned, they are on their own.

The arrogance with which American people ignore international agreements, international law or just common international interests leaves me behind speechless again and again.

The arrogance and ignorance of non-Americans, such as yourself, doesn’t surprise me at all. There is no common interest in providing non-citizens more rights than our own citizens.

I wonder if you see the connection that it is exactly this arrogance and ignorance that makes the US a pleasant aim for terrorists…

I wonder if you see the connection that it is your arrogance and ignorance that has made you the repeated target of terrorists — not us. Your policy has been to bend over for terrorism. Hope you are enjoying it.

If every nation in the world would act with such a priority to their domestic interests, never willing to step into a compromise for the common better, peace would be a word noone of us could ever experience…

There is no interest, domestic or international, in affording the guilty more rights than our own citizens. Calling a foreign consul in the middle of the night wouldn’t have changed a damn thing. They would still be on death row.

Let’s get back to Medellin… What he did was horrible, but the death penalty won’t solve any problems.

You are the one who wants to go off on tangents, not us. What he and the others did is more than horrible and the death penalty will definitely solve the problem.

Just ask the families of Elizabeth and Jennifer if they found some kind of closure after Derrick Sean O’Brien was executed two years ago.

The families that raised them have expressed a sense of relief that O’Brien was executed and wish that the remaining defendants also be executed.

Has this brought back their beloved daughters? No, it hasn’t…

Newflash: Life in prison with a possibility of parole won’t bring back their beloved daughters either. Are you that dumb?

Does the death penalty lower the crime rate on your streets?

For each inmate put to death, 3 to 18 murders are prevented. It also prevents the executed murderer from murdering again.

improving your social system and your knowledge about Human Rights and how hard it was to achieve them during the French Revolution certainly would.

The French Revolution was a fucking blood bath. For you to hold it up as an example of Human Rights proves what an idiot your really are. Improving your educational system should be a priority for you — not the dp in the US.

What kind of trust does one nation have in its people when they judge members of their society by one single act they’ve done in their life?

So, Medellin and his homies were simply having a bad hair day? That’s your argument??? I know this is the latest meme by antis but do you have any idea how offensive it is to normal people???

Would you like to be judged by only one act you did in your life or isn’t your character rather formed by the sum and complexity of all you actions?

Rape, sodomy, torture, and murder of two young girls does sum up these creeps’ character.

Isn’t there a vague chance that Jose Medellin has bettered during his incarceration, even if he gets out at the age of 58 -

No.

who tells you he will definitely rape and murder again?

Science, experience, and common sense.

People who are - understandably - shocked by horrendous crimes always call for remorse to be shown, but if it’s shown by an offender it just doesn’t get acknowledged in any way. Strange, isn’t it?

No, not at all. They are sorry they got caught, that’s all. If they are truly sorry they would drop all their appeals.

There are a lot of positive things about America, but often enough I don’t understand the attitudes of its people…

Good. Get lost.

Left by Anonymous on March 27th, 2008 at 4:55 pm

You ignore the fact that our criminal justice system, including the Miranda rights read to these defendants, affords more rights than the legal system of any foreign country. I have no doubt these creeps were quite familiar with the criminal justice system, either personally, or through their peers, and not some poor little babes you falsely make them out to be.

What foreign countries exactly are you talking about? I don’t see in what way the simple reading of the Miranda rights affords more rights than other legal systems. Concerning about your justice system to me is that it is not independent from politics.
Besides, I do not make Medellin and others on death row “some poor little babe”, I just know that theoretically being familiar with how a system works doesn’t always mean that the system works exactly as it is supposed to when it comes to reality.
However, we do not have to discuss whether Medellin is a little babe or not - he definitely isn’t - but obviously, your justice system contains some formalities as well like reading Miranda rights or offering access to the embassy for foreign nationals, and as far as these formalities are part of the system, they have to be followed. If they aren’t, the system doesn’t work.

the simple solution is for Americans not to go to a foreign country and rape, torture, and murder young girls. If they do, as far as I’m concerned, they are on their own.

No, they are not - their embassies and a number of activists usually stand up and get involved.

I wonder if you see the connection that it is your arrogance and ignorance that has made you the repeated target of terrorists — not us.

9/11 happened in your country, not in mine.

There is no common interest in providing non-citizens more rights than our own citizens.

Maybe there’s no common interest, but it could be seen as a sign of respect because non-citizens might not be as familiar with your system than your own citizens. We can argue if this is relevant for Jose Medellin because he’s been living in your country for such a long time, but in general…

Newflash: Life in prison with a possibility of parole won’t bring back their beloved daughters either. Are you that dumb?

No, I am not that dumb because I didn’t even bring up that idea. All I was trying to express is that I can’t see any sense in putting another human being to death when you can lock him away for a lifetime for what he did. People who approve the death penalty always request that the victims of a crime may not be forgotten, they refer to the pain and suffering of the victims’ families… Believe me that those of us who oppose the death penalty know about the pain and suffering of the victims’ families, we do not forget that death row inmates are not there where they are because they are all angels or “poor little babes”, we are fully aware of the fact that they have in most cases participated in horrendous crimes that have without any doubt caused incredible suffering. But how often do pro-death penalty people have in mind that every time an offender is executed another mother loses her child, another sister loses her brother, other children lose their father? You’ll probably tell me now that executions happen in the name of justice and that the law is on your side, but in my opinion moral certainly is not on your side.

For each inmate put to death, 3 to 18 murders are prevented.

Where did you get those figures from?

The French Revolution was a fucking blood bath. For you to hold it up as an example of Human Rights proves what an idiot your really are.

And exactly that fucking blood bath was necessary to understand that human rights are necessary, that there may not be a two class society, that all people must be equal… Holding the French revolution up as an example for the very early beginning of the Human Rights movement which finally led to the UN Declaration of Human Rights (that acknowledges the unrestricted right to live for every human being) does not prove what idiot I am - more likely, you not understanding the achievements of the French revolution for today’s times proves the stereotype right that Americans’ education begins and ends with American history.
By the way, you don’t have to agree with my opinions, but should rather come up with arguments instead of expletives like “dumb” or “idiot”.

So, Medellin and his homies were simply having a bad hair day? That’s your argument??? I know this is the latest meme by antis but do you have any idea how offensive it is to normal people???

I’m not saying they were SIMPLY having a bad day - they have committed a terrible crime, but still I refuse to reduce someone to the bad things he has done.
Can you please define what “normal people” are? In my opinion, it is not very normal to call for a death by lethal injection or other means and that way make officials working for the state or government take actively part in a killing… Can you see that the meaning of “normal” can vary very much?

Rape, sodomy, torture, and murder of two young girls does sum up these creeps’ character.

So Jose Medellin and his friends have gone through life committing rape, sodomy and torture all the time before they murdered Elizabeth Pena and Jennifer Ertmann? Why hadn’t they then been arrested before? In all those years they’ve lived they can’t only have been bad… I’m not coming up again with the fact that they have mothers, siblings and friends caring about them as well because I somehow have the feeling you wouldn’t understand anyway.

Isn’t there a vague chance that Jose Medellin has bettered during his incarceration, even if he gets out at the age of 58 -

No.

How do you know? Have you talked to him?

who tells you he will definitely rape and murder again?

Science, experience, and common sense.

Again, what statistics are you quoting when you talk about science?
I’m sorry that you’ve obviously never made any positive or good experiences in your life which leads to a common sense full of negative attitude. Luckily, some people in this world are more optimistic than you are.

People who are - understandably - shocked by horrendous crimes always call for remorse to be shown, but if it’s shown by an offender it just doesn’t get acknowledged in any way. Strange, isn’t it?

No, not at all. They are sorry they got caught, that’s all. If they are truly sorry they would drop all their appeals.

This - again - shows the negativity you are filled with when it comes to other people. Why do you then call for remorse to be shown when from the beginning on you deny that there could only be a small chance that it is meant honestly?
Dropping their appeals is ridiculous. I think there is finally one thing we both agree on which is that Medellin and the others on death row are no saints and therefore can’t be expected to act like martyrs. They are trying to keep alive which is a basic human instinct.
By the way, it is not all that easy to drop your appeals when you are a death row prisoner because a lot of experts will be called to examine the offender and make sure they are fully aware of what they are doing. So even if they were that truly sorry that they’d drop their appeals, it’s still not said that your justice system will let them do so.

Leonie

Left by Leonie on March 28th, 2008 at 11:24 am

You type out so much ridiculous crap it’s impossible to address it all.

I have great negativity towards murderers and liars like you. I do not call for remorse, I call for them to admit their guilt, waive their appeals and accept their punishment. Defendants on death row drop their appeals all the time. While the initial state appeal may be mandatory, anything after that is not. And if a defendant is competent to be executed, they are competent to waive their appeals. You apparently don’t know what you are talking about and just making shit up b/c you think it will score you points. And yes, you are an arrogant, ignorant, dumb idiot, who lacks any compassion for the victims. Bottomline: Medellin will be executed sometime this year. He’s toast.

If you and your pals don’t like our laws, don’t come to our country and murder people. If you do, we will execute you.

Left by Anonymous on March 28th, 2008 at 2:10 pm

Bottomline…

Im happpy that Jose is going to meet his maker.
noone can prove that the dp is not a deterrent.
We have statistics on people who have commited crime, but none on those who decided not to because rhey knew they would get the dp.
One person who rethinks there actions because of the dp means someone has been detered.
The dp wont stop EVERYONE from committing murder obviously, but as long as it stop some it IS a deterrant.

Left by Gemz on April 23rd, 2008 at 2:31 pm

Jose got his date today according to the Houston Chronicle.

The murdering rapist is scheduled to go down August 5th.

You made a very bad decision Jose, now you will pay the price.

Left by Justice on May 5th, 2008 at 1:22 pm

I don’t know what you ladies are getting your panties so het up about anyway. He got fat, so much more recent meat on the row for you.

Left by ben on May 7th, 2008 at 8:26 am

For those who say the death penalty does not prevent murder, what about the man (I forget his name) who was sentenced to death in TX for rape and murder, was commuted to life, then released on parole. He then went on to rape and murder again. Lives, or at least one in Waco, TX, would have been saved if his original sentence of death had been carried out.

Left by law1 on June 4th, 2008 at 11:33 am

Just a reminder that even though Joe Medellin is technically an illegal alien, it is my understanding that he has spent most of his life in the U.S. So he should not even have the opportunity to be covered here. He isn’t a person that should need the help of the Mexican Embassy. This man has taken life and should have it taken from him. My only other thought is that it shouldn’t have taken this long for him to be put to death.

Left by cheryl on June 13th, 2008 at 4:37 am

I suggest that everyone reads the book ” True Murder “, by Corey Mitchell. The book is about this crime , Jennifer and Elizabeth’s rape and murder.
Jose Medellin and his thug friends were evil pieces of shit way before these murders , the author devotes a chapter to each of their young lives , they were useless , pathetic , assholes , then , just as they are now.
They chose to kill the girls , they knew exactly what they were doing , they then joked and laughed about what had happened. Jose stomped on her throat because as he said ” the bitch would not die “. Peter Cantu , the little prick , kicked them with his steel toed boots as they lay dieing on the ground , and now these thugs beg for mercy. They dumped the bodies in the forest like they were taking out the trash.
They deserve to die , there is no doubt about it , and their groupie idiot pen pals should also read this book , they will have a whole new outlook about these sub human beings.
Perez and Villareal got off too easy , but they better watch their asses in prison , most inmates do not like child rapers and murderers.

Left by Justice on June 18th, 2008 at 2:36 pm

Question for anyone who knows the answer.

Were the Sandoval brothers ever charged in this case ?

They were with the gang just before the girls came along , actually they walked past the girls just before Medellin grabbed one of them. They could hear the girls crying for help but chose to keep walking away, they knew something bad was going to happen , but did nothing.

Perhaps if they had called the police , Jennifer & Elizabeth would be alive today. If this is what actually happened , I feel that they should have faced charges along with the others.

Did they testify at the trials ?

Left by Ron on June 19th, 2008 at 9:46 am

A co-worker of mine knew these two girls very well and had watched them grow up. A lot of things these animals did to them was left out, things like cutting off their fingers & toes and hair for gang trophies, nice stuff like that.

Screw the Mexican Consulate! This guys deserves to die, period. We have candy-assed Liberals trying to give TERRORIST the same rights as US Citizens and weeping about water-boarding these gutless turds that kill innocent civillian women and children. Hell man I did two tours in Iraq - killing bullies like terrorist is FUN, no doubt about that it’s a real kick in the ass and leaves you with a good feeling.

Left by RonnieB on June 26th, 2008 at 10:47 pm

[...] Comment on President Bush: Kowtowing to International Law in Texas …Question for anyone who knows the answer. Were the Sandoval brothers ever charged in this case ? They were with the gang just before the girls came along , actually they walked past the girls just before Medellin grabbed one of them. … [...]

Left by International-Law » New Issue: Chicago Journal of International Law on June 28th, 2008 at 1:59 pm

I grew up a few miles from where this attrocity occured. I was 17 at the time this happened and did not know the FULL details of the murders until two days ago. (Unfortunately, at 17, I didn’t watch the news with any regularity.) Recently, I was at the store with my children and I picked up the book, Pure Murder, because I remembered hearing about the murders back when I was in high school. There is not a word in existance that can explain how I felt after skimming through the details. So I came home and spent some time online researching the trial and outcome of the case. I also read through this blog.

After reading all the left-wing/right-wing debates, after reading all the different stances on America’s foreign policies and how they affect the murderers in question, after reading about the pros and cons of the death penalty and how that relates to Christianity, after reading some more bashings of our president and after reading all the heated posts between the friends of the convicted murderers and those who cannot fathom such a friendship……I just wanted to remind you all (without any coments on my race, religion, education, political leanings etc.) of one thing:

There is a distinct difference in making a bad choice and what those boys/men did to those two girls. This was not a drive by shooting, this was not a single instant in which a bad decision was made. This was torture and degredation that went on and on and on. Not one of the prerpetrators thought to stop the assaults, get help, or even to not participate. Even the nature of the girls’ murders was horrendous. There was no quick ending to their lives. They were savaged and killed in the most animalistic fashion I have ever heard of. And then the killers laughed and bragged about what they did. THEY SHOWED NO MERCY.

I am not the most informed person of all the facts in this case. I am not a lawyer or a law student nor have I spoken to anyone involved in the case. But I know enough so that when I look at my little girls, I have no problem with the removal of this kind of evil from existance. Maybe you do. Maybe you feel that it isn’t Christian or PC or for the betterment of society. But all I need to do is imagine my child in Elizabeth or Jennifer’s place and my reaction is instictive. And if my instincts are wrong….I am ok with that because regardless, the threat is gone.

And make no mistake……a person can be in the wrong place at the wrong time, they can have bad influences or the wrong group of friends, they can pull a trigger in an instant and regret it in the very next second. But the kind of “human” that has it in their nature to torture and rape and beat in this fashion will always be a threat to us and those we love. THEY WILL CONTINUE TO SHOW NO MERCY.

My heart goes out to the families of Jennifer and Elizabeth. I pray that the memories of your daughters bring you joy and that you find peace. And I hope to NEVER know your pain.

Left by Pam on July 2nd, 2008 at 10:43 am

Pam,

So very well said , I felt the same way after reading Pure Murder , these monsters are sub human beings , and deserve everything coming to them , they do not deserve to live and should have been put to death long ago.

Thanks for your post , it sums up everything there is in this case.

It sickens me to think of those poor girls having to go through the torture that they endured.

Left by Ron on July 2nd, 2008 at 12:48 pm

Sorry, but a driveby shooting is not a “mistake” either. You get into a car with a gun and drive around looking for people to murder is no mistake.

Left by Anonymous on July 3rd, 2008 at 8:13 am

Dear Anonymous,

I did not call drive-bys “mistakes”. What I said was this was not a drive -by shooting (a crime, often resulting in murder, that is commited from a distance in a split second and not always premeditated) OR a mistake. And I anticipated that anyone who read what I wrote would infer that I was including any violence inflicted on a person or people that was quick or faceless or random or done in the heat of the moment or due to mental illness. Basically everything that Elizabeth and Jennifer’s rapes and beatings and murders were not. I am not attempting to excuse ANY murder or violence, intentional or otherwise. I felt compelled to comment in response to those that take the stance that “people make mistakes or change, or can be reformed or educated or find God, etc.”. I wanted to point out that this was not a crime commited from several yards or miles away, that this was not a crime that was over in a split second, that this was not a crime that was commited with a detatched mindset. If you have read the details of what took place that night you know EXACTLY how horrific and relentless and inhuman these attacks were. If you read everything I wrote and that was what you took my meaning to be, then I appologize. I can assure you that was not my intention.

Left by Pam on July 3rd, 2008 at 12:49 pm

Jose deserves to be BBQ’d at the stake.

Left by G on July 16th, 2008 at 4:25 pm

Fine. Let’s do this right, only to protect our own citizens when traveling in other countries. Commute his sentence to life in prison but, make his life sentence a horrific, degrading, miserable, experience so that he’ll be begging for death. But of course don’t let him die. Sell tickets so others can see him suffering as a way to raise money for the families and charities.

Left by Charlene on July 16th, 2008 at 5:35 pm

This piece of shit , Jose the rapist and murderer , just won’t go away , he is back in the news , now the World Court is demanding that the U.S. should halt his execution in a dispute over his rights.
What rights , he confessed , there is no doubt about his guilt , so he did not notify the Mexican Embassy for legal help , hell , O.J.’s lawyers could not get this animal acquitted , I just hope that the State of Texas tells them to Piss Off , Jose will be executed next month , just like he deserves to be.
Shame on his lawyers , shame on the Mexican Government , shame on the World Court , what about the rights of Jennifer and Elizabeth , that these hoodlums snuffed out in their teens.
Pay the price for that shameful crime , take your punishment like a man , you sub human piece of garbage.
Texas , do not back down !

Left by Justice on July 17th, 2008 at 3:52 pm

http://ccadp.proboards40.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=Penpals&thread=7357&page=3#33836

Now , these thuglovers are really sick , especially ” Banshee ” , I can’t believe what she has to say about Peter Cantu , poor Peter has been living in a cage for the past fifteen years , poor Peter , the child rapist and murderer , who shows absolutely no remourse for his crime. Banshee must be a very desperate , sick , person with no self esteem whatsoever , sticking up for that murdering piece of garbage. She even states that she does not care about Jennifer and Elizabeth !
They should throw her in the cage with Peter , let her experience what those girls went through , she is one sorry , disgusting , excuse for a human being.

Left by Justice on July 18th, 2008 at 10:21 am

I’m Mexican. And I think this murderer should pay.
I disagree with death penalty, but something I’m sure, he should not be free for any reason.
The crime he committed it’s just diabolic, pure evil. And call or not call to the embassy that will not change. It’s sad that the police officers gave him this opportunity to appeal, maybe they were racist, or maybe they thought he was American and treat him like one. But if they call the embassy, now there was nothing this murderer can do.
Instead of trying to help this monster we should be ashamed (both USA and México). What about the tow innocent girls, what the international laws said about that.
In Mexico people die every day and the family never knows what happened or who did it. In lots of cases innocent people pays. And now the Mexican government is trying to say to another country what to do, shame.
Our government should fight for our rights in foreign countries and express our reject for death penalty, but I think they just chose the worst case to do it.

I apologize for my English.

Left by juan on July 22nd, 2008 at 7:03 pm

Someone on the previous thread described J. Medellin as a “truly beautiful person”.
Rape, torture and murder. Anyone else find that beautiful???
Sick.

Left by Anonymous on August 4th, 2008 at 5:05 pm

Thank God, this sick bastard will die tomorrow!!!

Left by debbie on August 4th, 2008 at 8:41 pm

Justice,
Aren’t you one of our lovely ladies that was defending Mr. Medellin not too long ago? I’m confused.

Left by Ed on August 5th, 2008 at 8:11 am

Ed,
I have never defended Jose Medellin , where did you get that information from ?
By the way , I am not a female !!
Hope you are not confused any longer.
Bye Bye Jose !!

Left by Justice on August 5th, 2008 at 10:03 am

Another round of Justice will be delivered today. This man is a vile monster. I cannot begin to fathom what kind of mindset it takes to commit this kind of crime. I don’t want to understand it! I have only to think of my beautiful and innocent 14 year old daughter and all I can feel for the perpetrators of this crime is an animalistic hatred and disgust. Call me callous, or ignorant for it - I don’t care. I am greatful that there will be one less monster out there. I do not live in Texas and only yesterday heard of this crime and have devoured every bit of information I could get my hands on since then. I strongly believe in the death penalty and feel that it is being put to good use in this instance. My heart breaks for the families of these two girls and hope they gain another moment of peace today.

Left by Christine on August 5th, 2008 at 4:14 pm

You haters ……………..

Left by hell ya on August 5th, 2008 at 6:40 pm

Does anyone know if Jose received his medicine yet?

Left by won't be missed on August 5th, 2008 at 9:04 pm

Looks like the Supreme Court is taking this up and his EXECUTION (not state sanctioned murder) is on hold for awhile.

This just sucks in my opinion. He needs to be dead already.

Why are so many against a quite, peaceful gentle death when the murderers victims had to endur hours of pain, humiliation and fear?

The victims didn’t have the help of the Supreme Court to make sure their rights weren’t violated. Why should the monster?

Left by Karen on August 5th, 2008 at 9:29 pm

All that I can say is that you all are as murders as Jose´s. You are defending death penalty as he did with the 2 young girls!!! You are as guilty as he is.
Aren´t you satisfied with all the people you´ve killed for oil and inventing wars?
You are only feeding your hate to yourselves and your stupid society!!!!!
I´m glad Jose is still alive!!!! I prayed for him, for that murdered girls and their parents and tonight, I´ll pray for all of you!!!!

Justice has being delivered today and I think it is enough to shout your ignorant mouths.

P.S. I´M PROUDLY MEXICAN!!!!

Left by Pilar on August 5th, 2008 at 10:25 pm

Pilar,

Oy Vey….one minute you’re cussing and the next your praying?

Make up your mind.

Execution is NOT murder. It is a state sanctioned disipline for a bad behavior.

Too bad those young ladies didn’t have you with them the night they were raped, tortured and had their lives so brutilally snuffed out. Maybe you could have fallen to your knees and prayed for their lives. Oh wait, those gangsters would have killed you too!!

If you are proudly Mexican please either go back or stay in Mexico. We really don’t need anymore of your kind sucking up our tax dollars.

Please fight for the Mexicans rights in Mexico so more will stay in their own country and not come here illegally and commit more crimes.

TYVM

oh and btw, Supreme Court threw out his appeal a few minutes ago…..hope that needle in going in right now….

Left by Karen on August 5th, 2008 at 10:35 pm

Hot Damn

He’s Dead!!

They didn’t waste any time either…..You rock Texas…Keep up the good work

Left by Karen on August 5th, 2008 at 10:45 pm

Now He is death. He was guilty. No doubt about it. I disagree with death penalty, but what he did it’s horrible.

In México a 14 years old boy was kidnapped and killed (by police officers), even his family pays the money they asked for. Now, politicians in México are clamed for death penalty. The same politicians were trying to help Medellin.

Karen,

Your commentary is so racist. Most of Mexicans in the USA are god people hard workers, honest and pays tax. They don’t go to “commit crimes” as you said, they are looking for the American Dream. That commentary of you it’s just stupid.

Left by Juan on August 5th, 2008 at 11:46 pm

Yo Juan,

Don’t like my words? Go back to Mexico and fight fight for the family that lost their son. Go back and get all pissy with the corrupt cops down there. Go back and fight to make your own country as good as the U.S and then and ONLY THEN can you tell me what to do!! Don’t like the death penality? Don’t live in a country that allows it!! It’s really simple, MOVE ON….

Why come here for the American Dream if you don’t become an American? Stay in Mexico and create the Mexican Dream.

Tell you what….I’ll stay out of your country if you stay out of mine.

I won’t put my kid in your school system and you don’t put your kid in our school system.

Your country doesn’t have bilingual teaching, why should mine?

Your country doesn’t require that their voting ballots be in both Spanish and English, why should mine?

Getting the idea yet Juan? I’m fricking fed up with the Mexicans coming to the U.S. and then bitching when they don’t get what they want from US taxpayers, but they are here anyway bitching away and not in their own country bitching to get what they want.

Stay or go back to Mex and fight the fight there.

BTW, I am not a racist. I’m lily white and married to a Black Russian Jew so let’s not even go there because you will definately lose that battle.

Left by Karen on August 6th, 2008 at 1:13 am

i really thought i had seen it all, people defending these men like they have been nothing but sweet, loving and caring men to whom a great injustice has been done. and then i saw this……..from a pen pal of peter cantu……and my stomach turned.

“Thank you for your kind and touching words Briseis. I can feel how truly heartfelt they are. Pumpkinpie is right, your post is fantastic. Nevertheless I feel nothing but contempt for Mr. Pena and Mr.Ertman in particular who is one of the most evil and disgusting people I have ever heard of. Not even the devil could feel for Ertman, what a nasty piece of work this man is. Just read his statements and then tell me again I should feel anything for this man. Peter is a good person and a dear friend and all Ertmans in this world can’t change my heart felt friendship for him. Peter and I will remain close friends until the day Texas murders him.”

don’t tell me this bitch actually blames the Ertman and Pena family for this tradegy. i can almost understand (almost) someone writing a person on death row, but that statement sickens me. i think they need to throw her in the cell with peter cantu…….

Left by Anonymous on August 6th, 2008 at 11:36 am

Anonymous,

I wrote on this blog on July 18th about this crazy , nutcase thuglover , who goes by the name ” Banshee ” .

She is totally out of whack , just look what she is saying :

Peter is a good person , and Mr Eartman is a most evil and disgusting person.

What a nasty piece of work Mr Eartman is , not even the Devil could feel for him.

Mr Eartman lost his teenage daughter , raped , beaten , tortured , and strangled by that ” good person ” Peter and his evil thug friends. Does it surprise anyone that he wants Peter dead , and also wants to witness the execution. This man’s teenage daughter was killed in the most brutal manner , is anyone surprised with his anger ?

Now , her good friend Peter is a rapist and a murderer , it was Peter , the little piece of shit , who kicked the girls while they were being murdered , and bye the way , he was wearing steel toed construction boots ! What a sweet , nice guy he is.

She also mentions in her post that Peter has suffered more than the girls did because he lives in a cage like an animal for the past fifteen years. He is an animal and it was his decision that put him there waiting to be executed , no one else is responsible for his predicament.

Banshee just shows what an ignorant person she is , actually she is really disgusting. What a life she must lead , I can just imagine !

Left by Justice on August 6th, 2008 at 2:03 pm

That Banshee what a piece of work. She feels empathy for Peter Cantu just because he’s been locked up in prison for the last 15 years. If that isn’t bad enough she also has contempt towards the victims families for wanting the scale to be balanced. Just doesn’t make any sense why so much anger towards the victims families.

Unless Banshee is half human, half animal and desperate to mate with one of her own kind that would be the only reasonable explanation….

Left by won't be missed on August 6th, 2008 at 8:15 pm

Karen,

I didn’t tell you what to do; I just said you are racist and stupid.

I even said that We can not tell USA what to do.

If there are drug dealers in México (they are the ones that kidnap people in México) is because of the drugs consumers in USA. That is a fact.

Getting the idea yet Karen?

Left by Juan on August 7th, 2008 at 12:19 am