I’d take out the mufsidun, no hesitation.
Actually, I view islam more as a cult than a religion, but will compromise with the term belief system.
Given more than one choice, though, I would stop any trying to kill using the cover of their belief system, and I am a Christian.

Left by no2liberals on December 4th, 2007 at 2:36 pm

no brainer.

preston? (echo, echo, cho…co) this was your cue to try and avoid the question!

Left by adam on December 4th, 2007 at 2:43 pm

Those who know nothing of Islam pretend that Islam counsels against war. Those who say this are witless. Islam says: ‘Kill all the unbelievers just as they would kill you all! Kill them, put them to the sword and scatter their armies.’

The Ayatollah Khomeini

Left by no2liberals on December 4th, 2007 at 2:59 pm

This seems a good spot for a classic video.
A Jihad Christmas.

Left by no2liberals on December 4th, 2007 at 3:07 pm

I had a similar conversation with a guy I work with. He leans so far to the left I’m surprised his Prius doesnt tip over like Flintstone with a Bronto Rib Rack. I always like setting him up with interesting questions that seem to get him a little red under the collar. Today, I was talking of the British teacher you blogged on the other day, and the amount of violence threatened against her by the local Islamic groups via the Teddy Bear naming incident. His first reaction was to point out Christian groups and how they have approved of violence in the past…yada yada yada. It’s like he was absolving Islam of all wrong doings simply because he found something in the archives of Christianity deemed “non-pacifist”. Why is that such a common response? A thinking man would look at the Teddy Bear situation and say “thats pretty fucked up.” A close minded progressive will try to steer the conversation politically and somehow find a way to blame it on Bush and a so called “Religious-Right.” He just kept digging at it and going deeper and deeper until we were talking about Roe vs Wade and an unstoppable lobby of wealthy, war hungry Christians. Now correct me if I’m wrong, but I dont think Jesus ever said “convert or die you worthless infidel!” So, to answer the question, I say dump Islam. Sooner than later, please.

Left by Kemo on December 4th, 2007 at 3:12 pm

I am proud and unafraid to honestly say that I choose neither, and this doesn’t make me a “pussy fence sitter”, but only confirms that I think ALL MURDER especially that IN THE NAME OF RELIGION=bad.

Murder is murder. Killing is killing. Murdering a homosexual because “Jesus told you so” and murdering a Jew because “Mohammed told you so” do not earn you different sentences in hell.

Left by John Jarzemsky on December 4th, 2007 at 3:52 pm

edit:

Ok, I read the post hastily. Allow me to re-answer.

I would choose to stop Islamic fundamentalists because, as has been pointed out (and is STILL not the point), the number of lives lost is far greater. So yeah, I’d pick the option that would leave more innocent people alive.

That doesn’t change my initial point, which was that this isn’t a matter of quantifiable morality. ANYONE who murders in the name of God is a sinner in my eyes, and in my God’s eyes, period.

You’re trying to frame this in the manner of “who was worse? Hitler or Stalin?”. I say it’s irrelevant.

Oh, and Robbie? You can refer to me by my real name. It is my handle, after all. [Comment from Robbie: John, fixed in the original post]

Left by John Jarzemsky on December 4th, 2007 at 3:58 pm

backpeddling…good! actually, “quantifiable morality” is exactly the point, maybe not of your comments but of the situation at hand.

Left by adam on December 4th, 2007 at 4:04 pm

I’m not backpedaling Adam, I mis-read the quote, and admitted that my first answer was not in line with my actual feelings.

Learning to admit when you’ve made a mistake is a skill that lots of grown ups develop, you should try it.

Left by John Jarzemsky on December 4th, 2007 at 4:48 pm

Adam- if you actually read my posts on the other thread rather than reading into them then it should have been pretty clear what my answer would be. I’ll echo John’s sentiments: murder is bad, less murder is less bad.

Left by Preston on December 4th, 2007 at 4:57 pm

“The hottest place in Hell is reserved for those who remain neutral in times of great moral conflict. ”
Martin Luther King, Jr.

Left by adam on December 4th, 2007 at 5:51 pm

And who the hell are you talking about?

Left by Preston on December 4th, 2007 at 5:54 pm

Jarzemsky,

you are a racist.

Left by Heavy-Gabe on December 4th, 2007 at 6:24 pm

Jarzemsky, you are a racist.

Wow, this thread is bizarroland. It would be useful if you quote the offending passage so the rest of us know what the hell you’re talking about.

Left by Preston on December 4th, 2007 at 6:42 pm

*Blink*

What?

Left by John Jarzemsky on December 4th, 2007 at 7:40 pm

Oh, and Robbie? You can refer to me by my real name. It is my handle, after all.

I think someone else gave you a nickname. I often make fun of some other bloggers (Ollie Willis) and public figures (Hank Clinton, the Silk Pony), but I always refer to the folks who comment here, even those who’s views I disagree with, by their name (or alias).

Left by Robbie on December 4th, 2007 at 9:25 pm

I think he’s talking about the phrase “one of my commenters”…

Left by Preston on December 4th, 2007 at 10:01 pm

Reportedly:
There are 5000 KKK members in the U.S.

Figures on numbers of Aryan nation hard to come by, but probably only in the 100’s as the group is falling apart

Approx 80% of US population is Christian ..let’s say 240,000,000

If all of the KKK and Aryan nation members were killers in the name of Christianity (which I find absurd but for the numbers), you have such a small fraction of “Christian killers” in this country that demonizing Christianity for the few nutcases out there is absolutely crazy.

Those who demonize Christianity wouldn’t dare move to a Muslim country. One word in support of homosexual rights would result in losing one’s head or “disappearing” from the face of the earth.

Get real people.

Left by Dianne on December 5th, 2007 at 7:54 am

I think he’s talking about the phrase “one of my commenters”…

That makes sense. However, it wasn’t intended as a slight…just the way I wrote the intro…

Left by Robbie on December 5th, 2007 at 8:58 am

I think everyone agrees with you, Dianne.

It’s great that in these conversations about Christianity and Islam every agrees how beneficial liberalism is.

Left by Preston on December 5th, 2007 at 10:41 am

In these discussions, when we refer to liberalism, we are specifically referring to Classical Liberalism, not contemporary liberals.

Left by no2liberals on December 5th, 2007 at 11:03 am

I don’t think the pride that the West has in it’s treatment of women and homosexuals among other traditionally oppressed groups comes from ‘classical liberalism’.

These liberalizations had to wait for hundreds of years after the Reformation and the Enlightenment.

Tolerance for other religions, yes, the others no.

Left by Preston on December 5th, 2007 at 2:16 pm

Whatever your comment is intended to address, it doesn’t alter the fact that when I or some others refer to ‘liberalism,’ we aren’t praising contemporary liberals.
Charlton Heston marched with Martin Luther King, because it was the right thing to do, and he was never a ‘liberal.’

Left by no2liberals on December 5th, 2007 at 11:24 pm

Actually, No2, the word ‘liberal’ was never used, I was referring to this comment:

Those who demonize Christianity wouldn’t dare move to a Muslim country. One word in support of homosexual rights would result in losing one’s head or “disappearing” from the face of the earth.

My point is simply that many people who would never celebrate equal rights for gays or women suddenly become card-carrying NOW members when it comes to comparisons to the oppressive conditions that prevail across the Muslim world.

(Now that I think about it, it’s kind of like George Bush in 2000 campaigning on the passage of a Patients’ Bill of Rights that had passed over his own veto in Texas)

Left by Preston on December 6th, 2007 at 7:35 am

Then you need to be more specific. I don’t celebrate any rights other than those God given rights guaranteed to all citizens of this country in our Constitution.

Left by no2liberals on December 6th, 2007 at 8:01 am

A Christmas Greeting From….Zawahiri.

Left by no2liberals on December 6th, 2007 at 8:02 am

New Dutch Website:

Bible and Koran - Side by Side

“By making accessible the texts of the Christian and Islamic holy books, BibleandKoran.net hopes to encourage study of both sources and promote mutual understanding.”

English Version

Left by Jacques on December 7th, 2007 at 8:44 am