People really believe this shit?
In a comment on this post about eco-vandals in Austin, a commenter by the name of J.M. Branum from Oklahoma left an irrelevant (to this post) asinine comment.
J.M. was kind enough to leave a link to his blog, J.M.B. Zine. Here’s his byline for his blog:
…dedicated to non-violent revolutionary change for peace and justice…
I don’t know whether to laugh at him, or just shake my head in sadness for his ignorance.
But good luck with all that, J.M.
How exactly do you propose getting violent jihadist to quit blowing up children, women, buildings, airplanes, and other assorted shit?
Short of submitting to dhimmitude or converting to Islam, they’d rather cut your head off than debate or negotiate with you. Pretty short lived revolution you’re going to have there, J.M.
J.M is a perfect example for the Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdog analogy:
Thus there is a paradox, and we must grasp both ends of the situation: We may well be in the most violent times in history, but violence is still remarkably rare. This is because most citizens are kind, decent people who are not capable of hurting each other, except by accident or under extreme provocation. They are sheep.
I mean nothing negative by calling them sheep. To me it is like the pretty, blue robin’s egg. Inside it is soft and gooey but someday it will grow into something wonderful. But the egg cannot survive without its hard blue shell. Police officers, soldiers and other warriors are like that shell, and someday the civilization they protect will grow into something wonderful. For now, though, they need warriors to protect them from the predators.
“Then there are the wolves,†the old war veteran said, “and the wolves feed on the sheep without mercy.†Do you believe there are wolves out there who will feed on the flock without mercy? You better believe it. There are evil men in this world and they are capable of evil deeds. The moment you forget that or pretend it is not so, you become a sheep. There is no safety in denial.“Then there are sheepdogs,†he went on, “and I’m a sheepdog. I live to protect the flock and confront the wolf.†Or, as a sign in one California law enforcement agency put it, “We intimidate those who intimidate others.â€
If you have no capacity for violence then you are a healthy productive citizen: a sheep. If you have a capacity for violence and no empathy for your fellow citizens, then you have defined an aggressive sociopath–a wolf. But what if you have a capacity for violence, and a deep love for your fellow citizens? Then you are a sheepdog, a warrior, someone who is walking the hero’s path. Someone who can walk into the heart of darkness, into the universal human phobia, and walk out unscathed.
And J.M. is a sheep. A classic sheep. He doesn’t or can’t admit that there are dangerous, violent people in this world who would kill him without so much as blinking.
He’s living in denial.
But at the same time, he can’t understand the need for brave warriors who are willing to do violence on his behalf to protect him and his family. In fact, in this post, he openly admits that he is not “a fan of the police”.
Of course he’s not. He’s a sheep. And they are sheepdogs.
I’ve known almost all of my life that I was a sheepdog. I come from a long line of sheepdogs.
Here is how the sheep and the sheepdog think differently. The sheep pretend the wolf will never come, but the sheepdog lives for that day. After the attacks on September 11, 2001, most of the sheep, that is, most citizens in America said, “Thank God I wasn’t on one of those planes.†The sheepdogs, the warriors, said, “Dear God, I wish I could have been on one of those planes. Maybe I could have made a difference.†When you are truly transformed into a warrior and have truly invested yourself into warriorhood, you want to be there. You want to be able to make a difference.
So, J.M, you go on grazing and striving for your “non-violent revolutionary change for peace and justice”. Just understand that when the wolf comes for you and your family, brave men and women will be nearby ready to kill that wolf for you.
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I don’t know- were King and Gandhi effective in their pursuit of non-violent revolutionary change for peace and justice?
My model for non-violent revolutionary change is that of the teachings and way of Jesus Christ. He didn’t kill people but still changed the world.
So, I guess it is kinda daffy and might get you killed, but I think the way of Jesus is the best way.
Uhhh…weren’t King and Gandhi assassinated?
So JMB, are you claiming to be Jesus?
If not, until he comes, we are left to defend and protect our own the best way we see fit. Which includes recognizing those evil doers that do not care for or respect the rights of those weaker than them. If they want to steal and kill, then some of us won’t forgive and forget, but will have our pound of flesh in recompense for their actions.
Live and let live is an excellent philosophy, as long as everyone plays by the same rules. There is evidence on a daily basis that some don’t.
Uhhh…weren’t King and Gandhi assassinated?
It’s seems prety clear that King and Gandhi were assassinated because they were effective at what they were attempting to accomplish.
Some men choose to live safe lives and tolerate injustice- other men are willing to risk their lives to end that injustice. We should all be grateful to those who have stepped forward to make that sacrifice.
Why Preston, I had no idea you loved our troops so much.
“How exactly do you propose getting violent jihadist to quit blowing up children, women, buildings, airplanes, and other assorted shit?”
Simple: instead of using billions of dollars for warfare, use it to cure malaria, lepra, give free medicine for aids. Help people instead of attacking them.
Simple?
Only to a simpleton.
Hast thou never an eye in thy head?
Why Preston, I had no idea you loved our troops so much.
Well, that’s because you don’t read what I actually write. As I’ve mentioned numerous times on this site, I have a number of relatives that served in the military.
I respect anyone that makes a sacrifice for their community. Unlike Robbie, I don’t make a distinction whether that service takes place in combat defending this country from attack or police or fireman or those like King who gave their lives to uphold the Constitution.
Henh.
In the few months I’ve been visiting here, I’ve never seen a comment by you in support of our troops.
Going back to Gandhi and King, as it pertains to this thread, they were killed by evil men(i.e. wolves), and didn’t sacrifice themselves for a cause, but were fighting for a cause. One has to be prepared for violent actions from violent men, even if they are pursuing a non-violent agenda. History is filled with successful and failed assassination attempts on men and women that were trying to make a difference.
Peace is not a cause, it is an effect.
I’m not sure what your point is.
To return to the question that began this- Robbie asked if people believe that non-violent social change works. I said yes. Do you disagree?
I just reviewed Robbie’s post in it’s entirety, and that question never appears.
My point is, as relates to this thread, there are dangerous and violent people out there, and someone that wants to wish them away and not fight them is doomed.
As to your question of non-violent change being effective, I believe it can be, as history has shown, but in this instance, concerning the mufsidun of the Global Hirabah, no, it won’t.
No, I’m not claiming to be Jesus. I do though try to follow his teachings, which teach against vengeance and violence.
The following passage doesn’t suggest to you that Robbie doubts the effectiveness of nonviolent social change?
So now it’s a passage, and not a question.
Shifting goal posts, eh?
And you asked me what I thought of your question, not what Robbie thought.
/circle jerk
Well, JWB, I’m a Christian, but I know I can never be the man Jesus was.
So, I don’t turn the other cheek, I believe violence is needed to counter violent men, and I don’t think vengeance is as bad as some claim it to be.
that Robbie doubts the effectiveness of nonviolent social change
Preston — that mis-characterizes my view point.
I believe in the effectiveness of nonviolent social change for non-violent issues and problems. Such as Martin Luther King Jr. using non-violent methods to affect change for equal rights.
However, what I’m mocking is those who think that we can use non-violent social change techniques to combat those who wish to visit violence upon us — such as jihadis.
And that is what J.M. believes — you might not get that from his few comments here, but a few minutes on his blog — where he thinks the world would be better off if our soldiers all put down their guns — and you’ll see that is exactly what he believes.
Can you use “Non-violent Revolutionary Change” for equal access to education? Sure. Can you use “Non-violent Revolutionary Change” for equal protection under the law? Absolutely?
But can you use “Non-violent Revolutionary Change” for peace against terrorists? Nope. That’s a fool’s dream.
Hey Jacques.
We already gave more to AIDS research and medicine than the rest of the world combined, we helped Iran deal with an earthquake in 2003, and Pakistan in 2005. The US military is often the first organization in a disaster area, helping people.
None of that changes any attitudes, though.
Welcome to DreamTV: We (the US only) are the world.
You even helped Irak, Saddam and Afghanistan, Bin Laden in the past, when that didn’t work the US changed their attitude to search for oil right under the hiding places of the WMD instead. Bush jr. just had to finish the job his father couldn’t. Now it seems Junior can’t do it either. He looks like a loser, he acts like a loser.
IMHO it’s not that strange large groups of people think of the US as the aggressor, they think they are attacked by violent evil people and fight back.
All of this is wrong of course and nobody can blame the soldier fighting for the cause. However you can blame the government putting too many lives in danger for the wrong political reasons.
Preston — that mis-characterizes my view point.
Well, I’m glad to hear that. I certainly mean to- I only can respond to what’s on the page.
I meant to say: I didn’t mean to mis-characterize your view point.
I understand that you believe what you do, but I would argue that those beliefs are not in line with what Jesus teaches.
And to be a Christian who doesn’t try to practice what he teaches just doesn’t make sense. Jesus said, “If you love me, you will keep my commandments” (John 14:15 (NRSV)
JWB
I’m not going to get into a scriptural duel over this.
Jesus died for our sins, as we are born sinners. It’s just the way God made us. As long as no one harms me or others, we will get along just fine, and the Commandments God gave us to live by will be adhered to. As a man, given free will, I will not stand by and allow those who don’t believe as I do, to harm me or others without resistance or retribution.
I will get Old Testament on their sorry asses in a heartbeat.
There are many Christians that are in favor of self defense, and those that are not. When Jesus said a person cannot exhibit greater love for others than by laying down his life for them (John 15:13), is that not a model for a sheepdog of contemporary times?
In Romans 14:19, it states we should make every effort to do what leads to peace and mutual edification. Does condoning criminal activity or withholding punishment lead to peace? Does allowing someone to steal or commit violence follow scripture? The issue of self defense isn’t always a settled matter, and usually it is a question of which covenants to follow in any given situation.
So to follow your notions of adhering to Christ’s teaching, and we shouldn’t arm ourselves against our enemies, because Jesus has already defeated Satan, and the Kingdom of Heaven awaits us when our mortal form dies, then some other ideas should follow. We need not have health insurance, as our health is in the hands of Jesus as our healer. We don’t need safety features like seat belts or air bags. We don’t need to provide for our protection or others, or our safety, because Jesus will provide for us.
If I did those things, would you believe I was more spiritual than you, because you chose to do those things?
I will honor God, as he made me in his image, by trying to stay as healthy and alive as I can, until he says it’s time for me to come home, a time table that I have no control over. However, I will continue to arm myself, and encourage others to do so, so that they can protect themselves and those that need it from the wicked and violent people on this earth that do not know God’s love. They can either learn, or perish in their attempts to force their choices on me or others.
Two questions, to conclude.
1)Do you lock your doors?
2)If so…why?
JMB
I was going to share a couple of links with you, but one site is no longer available. The name of the blog is warchick, if it comes back up. She wrote a long story about a man who was the uncle of one of my best friends, that was killed in Korea. A snippet:
Then there is this wonderful gentleman, James Baxter. Click around on his bio and some of his stories, as he has a perspective about God and warriors that you won’t find everyday.
Yes I do lock my doors. Locking one’s doors is not an act of violence, I believe it helps keep honest people honest. (why tempt a thief with easy pickings)
And yes you are right. You can find many scriptures that support the use of violence (particularly in the Old Testament), but you won’t find them in the teachings of Jesus. And in my theology as a Mennonite, I hold the teachings of Christ to be more important than the rest of the Bible.
Jesus does teach us to lay down our lives for others, but I don’t think that means that we should violence to do so. In fact one of the best examples is the lunch counter sit-ins of the civil rights movement. The young people sat there and took vile abuse, putting their safety at risk, but they did not hit back. By doing so, they were far more effective than if they had used violence.
Anyway we’ll probably have to agree to disagree. I’ve enjoyed the conversation.
Fine and well.
Peaceful protests are one thing, being given three choices of converting to Islam, submitting and paying a jizya, or beheading, is something altogether different.
I don’t have a problem with your beliefs, but I don’t believe you would stand there and do nothing if a mufsidun put a blade to your families throat. Better to kill those who would kill us, before they have the opportunity, IMHO. I’ll take my chances with St. Peter when the day comes. I may kill if threatened, but I do not murder.
Behold the Religion of
PeaceDeath!Being non-violent and passive in the presence of such wickedness will get you killed.