The Dallas Morning News, Dallas, Texas, 7/5/07
State: TX
American Rifleman Issue: 10/1/2007
A man was sitting in his vehicle while his wife shopped for groceries. To his horror, three men burst into the store with a gun, appeared to fire and began robbing customers. The man called 9-1-1, then received a call from his wife. “I just heard her saying, `There is nothing in my purse,’” he recollects. “And there was a `pow.’ The phone went dead.” The man, a concealed-handgun license holder, sprang from his vehicle and entered the store with his .45-caliber pistol. He hoped to avoid confronting the bandits, but police say that was not to be. One of the robbers pointed a gun at the man, and he responded by firing two shots at the suspect, injuring him as his accomplices fled. Neither the man’s wife nor any others were harmed. “I was just worried about my wife,” the man said, noting he took no satisfaction in shooting the suspect. “I just wanted to get her out of there.”

Armed Citizen.

That, as you know, is my point.

[Editor --- Actually we both just made an assumption that the victims were armed, too (whether it be legally or not). All we do know is that the suspects did have guns.]

Two 18 year old men

That’s the key…gang-bangers!
It is unlawful to legally purchase a handgun if you are under 21.
We’ve gone over this many times, Preston, but you either don’t remember or chose not to. On average, 2.5million times each year, a citizen defends their person, family, or property, from a criminal attack.
If some gang-bangers/drug dealers want to kill each other, society is better off.

Key to your argument for why there should be fewer (no?) gun laws is that we’d be safer if criminals were uncertain whether potential victims were carrying weapons.

I simply believe you vastly overestimate the capacity of individuals to use a gun in self defense. For instance these two guys probably both thought a gun would protect them. They were both wrong:

2 killed each other in Monday shootout in Newark
by Jonathan Schuppe/The Star-Ledger
Tuesday April 22, 2008, 1:30 PM

The circumstances of the shootout are still under investigation, police said. One of the guns was recovered at the scene by detectives, Police Director Garry McCarthy said.

Doesn’t that cast doubt on the notion that we could defend ourselves better if only we were legally able to carry weapons everywhere?

What an odd thing to say?

[Editor --- I thought so too. In fact, I really didn't even know how to respond to it, it was so off-the-wall and 180 degrees from what I was pointing out.]

Doesn’t that cast doubt on the notion that we could defend ourselves better if only we were legally able to carry weapons everywhere?

Incidentally, considering the prevalence of gang/drug related violence and it’s correlation with gun ownership I wouldn’t be surprised if a disproportionate of the murder victims in Chicago had a gun in their possession.

[Editor --- I'll bet you're right about the number of victims who had a gun, too. I'd also bet there was a disproportionate number of illegally owned guns, too. In fact, I'll bet the number of legally owned and licensed guns is much closer to 0 than it is to 1.]

[Editor --- I'll take my chances in Iraq, where at least you're allowed to (legally) own a gun with which you're allowed to defend yourself. Not so in Chicago.]