freedom of oppressed people elsewhere.

Those oppressed people would like the United States to end its occupation, thank you very much.

Left by Preston on July 22nd, 2008 at 2:57 pm

They are not occupied, and their oppressor is dead.

Left by no2liberals on July 22nd, 2008 at 5:19 pm

Exactly what conditions would constitute a victory? I find it amusing that those who’ve never served consistently harp on the “cut and runners” and “defeatists” yet the blogger here, having served the USA in uniform still agrees with a war that doesn’t have a clear objective, a defined set of conditions for victory, and was initiated based on a pack of lies. If any reader could quantify what exactly is the objective here? Other than to appease Israeli firsters and dual citizen nationals and their quest for the reopening of the Mosul to Haifa oil pipeline, what exactly is the point at which America first yet pro war folks will declare victory?

Left by woody on July 22nd, 2008 at 8:02 pm

Woody,
That’s an easy one.
So far, violence in Iraq is down 90% since the surge began, and 12 of 15 political benchmarks have been met.
That’s to address the only serious part of your comment, your other grousing is your’s to deal with.

Left by no2liberals on July 22nd, 2008 at 8:15 pm

This is too good!
Of course B-HO had his summer camp visit in Amman today, and there are lots of edited video clips of him speaking there, but the real story is what got edited out.
From Rush Limbaugh’s show today.

BREAK TRANSCRIPT

RUSH: Now, Cookie cut it down to seven-and-a-half minutes, eight minutes is just too long. Seven-and-a-half minutes. We’re not going to be able to squeeze it all in here. I want to hear this myself. What this is, not one repetition of one stutter from Barack’s press conference in Amman, Jordan, this morning. It started about ten o’clock. I watched it, my friends, and I was struck by all of these. You know, the context here is, “He’s such a great orator, such a great communicator! The guy just penetrates you with his oratory and his language.” Now, listen to this.

OBAMA: Uh, uh, I also want to thank, uh, uh, uh, the, uh, this, uh, well, uh, uh, eh –

RUSH: Seven and a half minutes of this.

OBAMA: — uh, uh, uh, you know, uh, uh, uh, uhh, is…? Uh, is of — of their work, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, we, uh, uh, I called, uh, uh, and I’m — I’m — Uh, with, uh, uh, as, uh, that, uh, and uh, uh, um, uh — And we have to do this, uh, uh. As — as well as, eh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh. Well, uh. I, uh, uh, uh, um. We, uh, and, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh. Uh, now, uh, right now and then identify if — if, uh, you want to, uh, uh, uhhhh. Ummmm. That’s — that’s a bunch. Umm, so let me tick these off. Um, it is true that, uh, uh, uh, uhhh, uh, uh. What, uh, uhhh, uh, and, uh, uh, in I-iraq, uh, uh, are seen as, uh — and so, uh, uh, uhhh, uh, uh, and if I was — i-if I were in his shoes, uh, uh, uhh, and so, uh, a, uh, um, uh, from some — someplace else, uh, theeee, uh — and, uh, t’see, uhhh, that, uhhh –

RUSH: Okay, folks, we got a lot more.

OBAMA: — and, uh, t’see, uhhh, that, uhhh –

RUSH: I don’t have time to squeeze it all in here.

OBAMA: — uh, to see, uhhh –

RUSH: We’re going to let it keep running. We’re going to go to a profit center time-out.

OBAMA: Uh.

RUSH: We’re going to let it keep running. It will still be playing when we get back.

BREAK TRANSCRIPT

RUSH: The Obama montage of stutters from the press conference today is still rolling, folks.

OBAMA: Uh, oh, uh, aaaand, uh, the way, for example –

RUSH: We have not stopped it.

OBAMA: — uh, eh, eh, uhh, uhhhh, uh, and — and, uh, because it — it — uh, and, uh, on the other hand, uh, I — I — I think that, uh, uhhh, uhhhh, uh, uh, uhhh — and so I think what the United States can do i-is — is — is to, uh, uhhh, uhh, there — there’s been, uh, uh, ah! I am so, uh, uh, uhhh, uhh — that — that — uh, aaaand, uh, uh, uh, uh, eh, that uh, so, uh, uh, and, a-a-and, uh, and that’s what I think is so important. L-l-l-l-let me, um, um. I’ll — Uh, um, um, uh, um, would — would…? Um, uh, um, um, uh. I — I think that, uh, uh, uh, um, uh. With its — And so, um –

RUSH: It’s not going to end in time for the show.

OBAMA: — um, uh –

RUSH: It’s still going to go. It’s still going.

OBAMA: And so, um, uh…

RUSH: It’s going to be going another two minutes.

See you tomorrow, folks. Adios.

So much for the great orator.
Unless that was what was appearing on his teleprompters.

Left by no2liberals on July 22nd, 2008 at 10:30 pm

Thanks for the link no2liberals, but the White House definitions for victory are extremely vague and ambiguous, leaving the possibility of a never ending occupation. Which is exactly what the kosher conservatives want. Maybe a better question to ask is, what are the united states of America’s vital interest in that region? To fight terrorist? You do know the southern border is pretty much unprotected don’t you?

Woody

Left by woody on July 23rd, 2008 at 6:18 pm

Woody, the goals in that link are the official position, and are quite clear. Our continued presence may be needed for some time, after all, we are still in Japan and Germany, sixty three years later.
I’m not going to play your little game of shifting goal posts all over the globe. Any reasonable person can see the gains that have been made in Iraq, and a stable Iraq is in our national interest, as well as the ME’s, and the world’s.

Left by no2liberals on July 24th, 2008 at 8:19 pm